Miss USA "health care is a privilege"

[Gage]

People being upset over her comment about health care being a privilege and not a right shows just how far down this country has gone and is going. Liberalism is a disease.

[BTH&T]

I agree with Miss USA on this issue!

Cannot see why many of the LDS faith don't have the good ol' American values and stand up against the agenda of evil, like this concerning
Self-reliance. Work for what we need and want, instead many scream for Gov't handouts and yes that goes for LDS freeloaders.

Same goes for Anti-family vs Pro Family (LGBT issues)

Same for Pro life vs. Abortion

Same for the Indoctrination of the Education System.

Same for the Environmentalist Religion garbage.

In Utah particularly I see no push back, and usually support for what to me are obvious ploys of wickedness.

(Had to vent, so tired seeing little to no outcries for Good. Where are all of the people standing up for right vs wrong.
Oh yea, there is no wrong now, just differences of opinion)

[Gage]

I agree with Miss USA on this issue!

Cannot see why many of the LDS faith don't have the good ol' American values and stand up against the agenda of evil, like this concerning
Self-reliance. Work for what we need and want, instead many scream for Gov't handouts and yes that goes for LDS freeloaders.

Same goes for Anti-family vs Pro Family (LGBT issues)

Same for Pro life vs. Abortion

Same for the Indoctrination of the Education System.

Same for the Environmentalist Religion garbage.

In Utah particularly I see no push back, and usually support for what to me are obvious ploys of wickedness.

(Had to vent, so tired seeing little to no outcries for Good. Where are all of the people standing up for right vs wrong.
Oh yea, there is no wrong now, just differences of opinion)

Sadly it is what the entire nation has become and Utah is no exception. It is all part of the plan and one day folks will regret their government dependence and their liberal views. Utah will be a wicked place before the Lord comes and as you can see they are working pretty hard to achieve that label.

[2EstablishZion]

Actually, it is neither a right nor a privilege. It is a service and a commodity.

[Gage]

Actually, it is neither a right nor a privilege. It is a service and a commodity.

Everything is a service, the fact that you think you automatically deserve and have the right to these services is the problem. I should not be obligated and mandated to provide you and your family health insurance. You should take care of your own family. Show me in the Constitution where it says men have the right to health insurance.

[2EstablishZion]

I agree, Gage.

Claiming that you have a right to a service = enslaving whoever is providing or paying for that service.
Claiming a right to property that you did not produce or purchase is theft.

[JohnnyL]

It's often the false god of Western medicine. I treat my body, spirit, and emotions like crap for years, then I "deserve" health care, so the doctor (God) and nurses (angels) can save me from hell (death).

Americans are scared to die.

Where does health care stop? You can always upgrade everything, you can always go one more step.

And it doesn't help that you can get put in jail for not "helping" someone who needed health care in an emergency. (Or am I wrong here?)

The flip side is the hospitals and others forcing health care on others who they deem need it, especially the under-aged.

[Robin Hood]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

[BTH&T]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

[Robin Hood]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

[h_p]

I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

Not that he was right, but that he HAD that right.

[h_p]

Or, from a different perspective, I don't believe the Levite should be thrown in jail or killed for not providing aid.

[Serragon]

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

And I just knew someone would jump to the extreme case to attempt justify the confiscation of the property of others.

The question itself is ridiculous. There are nearly infinite options to pay for the neighbors cancer treatment that don't involve force and confiscation of the property and labor of others.

[2EstablishZion]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

That's just a BS "gotcha" theoretical.
If it was me, if it came down to this false dichotomy, he or she would die.
Luckily we have a third option, a priesthood blessing, and I fully believe if they are intended to live, they will.

[2EstablishZion]

We have such a fear of death. The typical person will spend more on medical care during their last year of life than all of the rest of their life combined.

All of that extra expense and effort just to get another 365.25 days on this mudball, probably either in pain or a generally crappy quality of life.

And if you have means and you care that much about extending your mortality - knock yourself out. But don;t try to lay some guilt trip that if I don't sell all that I have to take care of my neighbor, I am some kind of bad person.

Seriously.

[captainfearnot]

I'm sure if RH were born and raised over here, he'd think like us. And if we were born and raised over there, we'd think like him. We talk a big game about principles and economic theory but in the end it just boils down to what we're accustomed to.

If we all grew up with privatized police and fire protection we would bristle at people who said those things should be socialized and provided to all. But since we are accustomed to these and other public services they seem normal and proper.

[Serragon]

I'm sure if RH were born and raised over here, he'd think like us. And if we were born and raised over there, we'd think like him. We talk a big game about principles and economic theory but in the end it just boils down to what we're accustomed to.

If we all grew up with privatized police and fire protection we would bristle at people who said those things should be socialized and provided to all. But since we are accustomed to these and other public services they seem normal and proper.

I reject this. People can think about principles regardless of environment. It is actually rather insulting.

[Gage]

These liberal Democrats have made slaves out of so many people just for their votes. So many Americans depend on the government just to live and survive. Its sickening. We now elect leaders not based on what they can do but what they can give us. Before long the government will control every aspect of our lives, and people actually want this to happen. All the free stuff the government hands out is seen as charity and helping the poor. Bologna, its nothing more than supporting the lazy and slothful.

[Serragon]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

Following is a link to a short video that is instructive about this topic. I recommend watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnh7HI901Mk

On a side note -- I am struck by the exchange and how civil and intelligent it was by both parties. They are discussing actual principles instead of emotions. Contrast that to today and it is rather depressing.

[JohnnyL]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

Absolutely not. I will tell him about 100 alternatives that will do more to save his life, and leave the choice to him.

[Robin Hood]

Interesting comments.
I can only assume most of you think the Levite and the priest were right to pass by on the other side, and the Samaritan's pity was misplaced.

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

Absolutely not. I will tell him about 100 alternatives that will do more to save his life, and leave the choice to him.

Anything but put your hand in your pocket.
What a lot of Americans fail to understand about our universal healthcare system is that we don't mind paying for it in the least.
It is paid for through a national insurance system and hardly anyone objects to paying it, even if we don't use it. After all, that is how insurance works.

[Dave62]

Guys! You are fighting yet again!!! We are all different and approach social issues and problems in different ways. Yes, there is certainly a case for being responsible and providing for your own health, and in a perfect world we would see a doctor, consult with a specialist, and purchase herbs and tinctures from people who love one another. But we don't and wont until the Saviour returns. We live under a system of a rapacious sickness industry that deals in men's souls as well as their lives. Please Please Please, just because some of us live in countries where we believe in the separation of capital and health don't label us Socialists. We don't have problems in paying tax for a public health system based on triage and not the ability to pay.

[gkearney]

She says this now when she is 25 and healthy let's see what she has to say about it in say 30 years from now.

[JohnnyL]

I personally think as individuals we are to assist with all we can to ease the suffering of others.
It is a whole different thing to expect or demand institutions to care and provide for our needs.
This was demonstrated in your analogy, it wasn't gov't that cared for the man in need nor some outreach program, it was an individual.

I just knew someone would say that.
So, your neighbour has cancer and needs some very expensive treatment to save his life.
Are you going to sell your house to pay for it, or let him die?

Absolutely not. I will tell him about 100 alternatives that will do more to save his life, and leave the choice to him.

Anything but put your hand in your pocket.
What a lot of Americans fail to understand about our universal healthcare system is that we don't mind paying for it in the least.
It is paid for through a national insurance system and hardly anyone objects to paying it, even if we don't use it. After all, that is how insurance works.

Nope. Called "give a man knowledge and wisdom", which Solomon teaches is worth more than gold.

That's... "kind of" how insurance works. Some countries with "universal healthcare" are going broke. But everyone knew it was going to happen, lol. And Americans know what it's like to pay $3 for a pill that OTC pill can be bought for $.005, or $7 for a bandaid that can be bought OTC for $.03, and pay $15,000/ year for insurance to pay for those $3 pills and $7 bandaids. Of course, idiot juries, brainwashed into patient rights and the fear of death, are willing to dish out $M's in a lawsuit, for a simple mistake that life insurance is only willing to pay 1/10 of.

I remember reading about Canadians having to wait months and months just to see a doctor, much more to get an operation, and Brits lining up for free dental services all over the countrysides because it's better than normally pulling teeth with pliers. At least I think managed costs are a little better than other countries with universal healthcare.

[Sunain]

People being upset over her comment about health care being a privilege and not a right shows just how far down this country has gone and is going. Liberalism is a disease.

The United States seems to think that anything that is against an American's ability to make profit off of something is advancing the liberal agenda. Universal healthcare in Canada crosses all parties currently, in fact in Ontario, all the parties are currently debating for the upcoming provincial election which of their universal drug plans is better. The Federal Conservatives a few years ago tried to introduce a two-tiered healthcare system but it was a so universally hated idea that it never came to be.

It truly saddens me to see members of the church believe that the well being of others comes down to money. I personally believe the way our healthcare system is setup is similar to the Fast Offerings of the church. Canadians collectively pay for the health of all Canadians. It also saddens me when I see people in the United States having to resort to crowdfunding systems to help pay for the excessive medical bills.

I do not believe healthcare is a privilege, I believe it should be a universal right worldwide. This is nothing about expanding the UN's or liberal agenda. No one should have to suffer because they can't afford to see a doctor or can't afford a surgery or treatment or an expensive medication. I've seen our healthcare system bless the lives of countless church members who are ill or otherwise afflicted. The needless stress placed on a family to be able to afford treatment is alleviated. Testimony meetings here are always filled with people being grateful to live on the promised land in a country where we can receive these modern day medical treatments. Our Father in Heaven provided this knowledge to be used to help us and bless the lives of His children, not to be withheld to only those that can afford it.

Do you not think everyone should have the opportunity to take advantage of gifts these doctors have? In combination with a priesthood blessing, it extends the lives of many.

Would the Savior withdraw His blessings of healing to a person that could not afford it or didn't have the faith?

I remember reading about Canadians having to wait months and months just to see a doctor, much more to get an operation, and Brits lining up for free dental services all over the countrysides because it's better than normally pulling teeth with pliers. At least I think managed costs are a little better than other countries with universal healthcare.

The main benefit of universal healthcare is that it costs significantly less money. Please note that it is universal healthcare in Canada, not free healthcare. The only people that get free healthcare in Canada are those that are in the poverty bracket. Most provinces require tax payers to pay for healthcare as part of their yearly tax return. Ontario though is in the process of having a universal drug plan for children which I believe will be implemented by 2018 as drug costs are spiraling out of control even here in Canada.

Having grown up in Canada, I'm very bias when it comes to our healthcare system. It's a source of national pride. Unlike the United States, no one here in Canada is having to declare bankruptcy because they got sick or injured. Having a baby doesn't cost like $4000 like many states charge. Waiting for specialists can take up to a couple months, that is true, but once again it costs a lot less in the long run. It doesn't cost extra to see the specialist like in the US. Heathcare coverage is the main reason I live in Canada.

Here’s a fact most Canadians probably don’t know: Canadians live longer than people in the United States. Specifically, women in Canada live an average of 83 years, compared to 80 in the U.S.; men live more than 78 years on average compared to 75 in the United States. Why is this the case? There are clear links between mortality rates and the way countries invest in health care and improving social conditions.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/ ... e16147153/

A healthier population reduces the stresses on business and the government. We've had countless studies here in Canada showing that. I've lived in Canada and the United States and there is no contest on which system is better. When business gets involved in the health of the people, it becomes more about profit rather than the well being of the people. Look at the price of medications in the US? Insane! Canada is in the process of further regulating drug prices which will help both the private health drug plans and the upcoming universal drug. Remember, the government isn't forcing you to use the healthcare system here, though you are still required to pay for it but you still have the choice to use other treatment opinions like go to a United States doctor, herbal, ect.

Universal drug plan would save billions, UBC researchers say

Government plan could save billions of dollars while keeping drug costs affordable, study suggests

A universal prescription drug plan could reduce total spending on medications in Canada by billions and cover everyone at an affordable price for taxpayers, health policy researchers say.

Canada is the only developed country with universal health insurance coverage that does not also offer universal prescription drug benefits.

About one in 10 Canadians say they can't afford to take their medications as prescribed, previous studies suggest.

In Monday's issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal, researchers say the extra total cost to government of providing universal pharmacare could range as high as $5.4 billion a year, but would likely be about $1 billion, depending on exactly how much can be saved through bulk purchases of medications and other measures.

At the same time, it would save the private sector the $8.2 billion annually it spends on prescription drugs, mainly through employee health plans.

"When we did the analysis, we were, at first, a little bit surprised," said study author Steven Morgan, a professor of health policy at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. "Wow. Canada can really save billions of dollars by covering everybody for virtually every drug? And then we started to look deeper at the math, and it made perfect sense.

"You save about 10 per cent by getting better generic prices, you save about 10 per cent [on] brand name prices and you save an additional 10 per cent by encouraging more cost-effective prescribing," Morgan said, using conservative estimates. "Mine those three things together, you save 30 per cent of a very large budget. Therefore you're saving billions of dollars."

Studies in the U.S. suggest that providing prescription medications for free to patients increases the chance they'll actually take the medicines they need and, in the long run, improves their health and reduces their demand on the health-care system, Morgan said.

"Pharmacare is not unaffordable for taxpayers. Quite the opposite. It is unsustainable for taxpayers not to have a universal pharmacare system."