TRUMP.

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Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: TRUMP.

Post by Silver »

larsenb wrote:
Silver wrote:
larsenb wrote:
Silver wrote:
I simply cannot square what you're saying with what my own eyes and a study of history tell me. With a large majority of Mormons and virtually all Americans unaware of the power of secret combinations, I think the Gadiantons have plenty of wiggle room left. Of course, many people are not happy with the way things are going but they know not where to focus their frustrations other than the gubmint in a 5 minute discussion at the water cooler. Thus, the secret combinations can set up a man like Trump who says all the right things to get elected, but ol' Crooked Hillary is still walking around free, ain't she? There is no justice while the wicked reign.
Ah, Silver. You still miss the point. Let it go.
Those are easy words to toss out and I can easily direct them to you as well.
But you're obsessed with Trump and anything negative you can find about him. Just look at all of your threads and posts that plow this negative ground. I think you would be better off to let it go. But on the other hand, maybe you need this outlet.

I'm not obsessed with the man. I like a lot of what he's doing and hope he continues. But If he doesn't, he doesn't. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the show for the most part. You aren't, unless you feel glee in him failing, being blocked, or taking the wrong turn at this or that. That's the difference.
Do you psychoanalysts make a lot of money reading people's minds on the Internet?

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: TRUMP.

Post by Silver »

So how would you categorize Trump. One guy on zerohedge attempted to put him in a box.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... nald-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For many people, President Donald Trump presents an enigma.

Our brains seek to put labels on other humans. The labels we have readily available to us can come from nature (black, male, old, fertile, weak, etc.) and from nurture (liberal, Republican, foreign, racist, wealthy, ignorant, lazy, dangerous, etc.). This labeling, categorizing, or naming, is part of the normal mental process of stereotyping, and is a valuable survival skill and evolutionary advantage, despite what you may have been taught.

For some cognitive psychologists, stereotyping describes a value-neutral psychological mechanism that creates categories and enables people to manage the swirl of data presented to them from their environment. This categorizing function was recognized in 1922 by Walter Lippmann, who first coined the term "stereotyping." For him, this was a necessary, useful, and efficient process, since "the attempt to see all things freshly and in detail, rather than as types and generalities, is exhausting, and among busy affairs practically out of the question."

https://www.asu.edu/courses/lia294a/tot ... --Categori.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

When we do not have enough information to stereotype others, it can make us quite uncomfortable. Is this person a threat to me? A potential mate or friend? Trustworthy? So, our senses gather information to help our brains analyze the data to fill in the blank label. We also work very hard at trying to fill in these blanks for other people, and even harder at changing them, especially the media, but that is a future topic.

Yesterday, I read an article on ZeroHedge describing how one of the world's most successful investors allegedly used a financial ratio to analyze the data and then label Trump.

On one hand, there was RenTec's chain-smoking billionaire founder (in 2015 alone he made $1.7 billion) Jim Simons, who had donated some $10 million to Hillary Clinton's campaign, second only to Saban Capital. In a June 2016 interview with CNBC, Jim Simons said that "if you compare the presidential candidates using the Sharpe ratio, presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump is 'not a good investment.'"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... ide-worlds.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This caused me to remember that I, too, had labeled Trump just a few days earlier.

hedgeless_horseman Feb 16, 2017 2:33 PM

"I do know one thing. Donald Trump is not a libertarian."

I asked myself, is that really true? How did I come to that conclusion? What is a libertarian? This article is merely one attempt to answer those questions.

I like to tell people that libertarian is the political label for someone that simply wants two things: 1) maximum freedom, and 2) minimum government, and who prioritizes those two over the other political values he or she may hold. Years ago, I posted a much longer answer here on ZeroHedge in the form of the Libertarian Party Platform. Unfortunately, the comments appear to have been lost in one of the many DNS/hacking battles fought by Sacrilege in defense of this good and valuable web site. At the time of that post, I had learned of the The World's Smallest Political Quiz, and had posted the link in the comments, along with my score, and an invitation for readers to take the test.

Today, I invite you, dear reader, to join me in taking the test on behalf of President Trump, in the hope of determining if he is, or is not, a libertarian. I provide links, below, to a small number of pertinent items that I feel support my answers.

The World's Smallest Political Quiz

Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet.

Based on Trump's comments about Snowden and Manning, I am going with DISAGREE.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 92?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-2 ... l-traitor-.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... nyt-partic.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft.

Based on Trump's five draft deferments, one medical, I am chosing MAYBE.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/p ... aft-record.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults.

Considering Trump's actual statements and actions, I am picking AGREE for our POTUS.

http://gaysfortrump.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Repeal laws prohibiting adult possession and use of drugs.

This seems to be a clear DISAGREE.

http://hightimes.com/news/president-tru ... war-on-dru.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.


There should be no National ID card.

This also seems to be a clear DISAGREE.

https://www.rt.com/usa/373890-mlks-son- ... iscuss-id/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business.

This also seems to be a clear DISAGREE.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-0 ... mp-carrier.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.



End government barriers to international free trade.

This also seems to be a clear DISAGREE.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-2 ... sue-execut.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.



Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security.

I am selecting DISAGREE for Trump, based on his campaign statements.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... leave-soci.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.



Replace government welfare with private charity.

It appears Trump would AGREE.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/835156280029372416" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more.

Any actual tax cuts will likley not come close to 50%, and Trump says he is going to spend bigly, so I clicked DISAGREE for the President.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... -timeline-.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017 ... p-pledges-.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.



Here is the result of my test. Donald Trump is a Big Government Statist.

Statists want government to have a great deal of power over the economy and individual behavior. They frequently doubt whether economic liberty and individual freedom are practical options in today's world. Statists tend to distrust the free market, support high taxes and centralized planning of the economy, oppose diverse lifestyles, and question the importance of civil liberties.


Apparently, I had already done a similar analysis in my mind, because according to this test, Donald Trump is the polar opposite of a libertarian. This label fits with the personal interactions I have had with Donald Trump, years ago, at his then private home in Florida and on vacation in Aspen.

It should be interesting to learn, below, how your answers on behalf of Trump are different from mine, and why.

I am looking forward to seeing many of you at the First ZeroHedge Symposium and Live Fight Club in Marfa this June...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-1 ... ters-scarc.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-1 ... erohedge-s.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Peace and prosperity,

h_h

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Joel
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Posts: 7043

Re: TRUMP.

Post by Joel »


larsenb
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: TRUMP.

Post by larsenb »

Silver wrote:So how would you categorize Trump. One guy on zerohedge attempted to put him in a box.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... nald-trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For many people, President Donald Trump presents an enigma.

Our brains seek to put labels on other humans. The labels we have readily available to us can come from nature (black, male, old, fertile, weak, etc.) and from nurture (liberal, Republican, foreign, racist, wealthy, ignorant, lazy, dangerous, etc.). This labeling, categorizing, or naming, is part of the normal mental process of stereotyping, and is a valuable survival skill and evolutionary advantage, despite what you may have been taught.

For some cognitive psychologists, stereotyping describes a value-neutral psychological mechanism that creates categories and enables people to manage the swirl of data presented to them from their environment. This categorizing function was recognized in 1922 by Walter Lippmann, who first coined the term "stereotyping." For him, this was a necessary, useful, and efficient process, since "the attempt to see all things freshly and in detail, rather than as types and generalities, is exhausting, and among busy affairs practically out of the question."

https://www.asu.edu/courses/lia294a/tot ... --Categori.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

When we do not have enough information to stereotype others, it can make us quite uncomfortable. Is this person a threat to me? A potential mate or friend? Trustworthy? So, our senses gather information to help our brains analyze the data to fill in the blank label. We also work very hard at trying to fill in these blanks for other people, and even harder at changing them, especially the media, but that is a future topic.

Yesterday, I read an article on ZeroHedge describing how one of the world's most successful investors allegedly used a financial ratio to analyze the data and then label Trump.

On one hand, there was RenTec's chain-smoking billionaire founder (in 2015 alone he made $1.7 billion) Jim Simons, who had donated some $10 million to Hillary Clinton's campaign, second only to Saban Capital. In a June 2016 interview with CNBC, Jim Simons said that "if you compare the presidential candidates using the Sharpe ratio, presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump is 'not a good investment.'" . . . . .

Apparently, I had already done a similar analysis in my mind, because according to this test, Donald Trump is the polar opposite of a libertarian. This label fits with the personal interactions I have had with Donald Trump, years ago, at his then private home in Florida and on vacation in Aspen.

It should be interesting to learn, below, how your answers on behalf of Trump are different from mine, and why.

I am looking forward to seeing many of you at the First ZeroHedge Symposium and Live Fight Club in Marfa this June...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-1 ... ters-scarc.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-1 ... erohedge-s.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Peace and prosperity, h_h
Some of your links were broken.

My view is that if you can categorize him as a statist, he is far less of a statist than Hillary would have been. Hillary was hell bent on tyranny, in my view. Trump isn't.

And I think some of the categories presented are somewhat off the mark, with this article ignoring some of the most important issues Trump has taken a stance on. For instance, illegal immigration is simply a national issue. It demands a national solution. The state needs to get involved at the Federal level.

Trump has also taken the stance that our recent foreign wars were wrong and should not have been entered into. This is would be considered a libertarian issue, and a non-statist one at that.

He also took a strong stance against government overreach in the BLM/Western rancher conflict. This is a non-statist approach.

And there are other stances he has taken that don't fit into the statist category. Getting rid of the Johnson Ammendment is one of these, and could be regarded as strongly anti-statist. He has also vowed to greatly reduce business regulations and even environmental regulations. Again, a strong non-statist position.

So, in my view, who ever wrote your article is ignoring important categories and issues and doesn't do well in looking at the nuances of each of them . . . . he's too either or. But of course, this is just my opinion.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

Silver wrote:So how would you categorize Trump. One guy on zerohedge attempted to put him in a box.
dr;tl

freedomforall
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Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

larsenb wrote:He also took a strong stance against government overreach in the BLM/Western rancher conflict. This is a non-statist approach.
Please provide the link of the source of this info. Elizabeth has been posting great info on the Bundy trials but I don't know where to find info on the stance of Trump. He could help break or make the outcome of Government overreach and whether or not Americans can feel secure on their own property.
Article 1, Section 8, Claus 17

Thank you.

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Sirocco
Praise Me!
Posts: 3808

Re: TRUMP.

Post by Sirocco »


larsenb
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Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: TRUMP.

Post by larsenb »

freedomforall wrote:
larsenb wrote:He also took a strong stance against government overreach in the BLM/Western rancher conflict. This is a non-statist approach.
Please provide the link of the source of this info. Elizabeth has been posting great info on the Bundy trials but I don't know where to find info on the stance of Trump. He could help break or make the outcome of Government overreach and whether or not Americans can feel secure on their own property.
Article 1, Section 8, Claus 17

Thank you.
I''ve posted this before, but will do it again here. He took the time to write an article for the Reno Gazette discussing the BLM/Rancher issue. I'm not aware that any other candidate even addressed this issue. Here is the link: http://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices ... /78422530/" . Just this little item really increased my sense that Trump was on the up-and-up.
Trump: Nevada, US need a president who obeys rule of law
Donald J. Trump Published 12:29 p.m. PT Jan. 7, 2016 | Updated 12:31 p.m. PT Jan. 28, 2016

The United States of America is a land of laws, and Americans value the rule of law above all. Why, then, has our Congress allowed the president and the executive branch to take on near-dictatorial power? How is it that we have a president who will not enforce some laws and who encourages faceless, nameless bureaucrats to manage public lands as if the millions of acres were owned by agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management and the Department of Energy? In Nevada, the lack of enforcement of immigration laws and the draconian rule of the BLM are damaging the economy, lowering the standard of living and inhibiting natural economic growth. The only way to change these circumstances is to bring to Washington a president who will rein in the federal government and get Congress to do its job. It’s not that we don’t have talented people in D.C. It’s that we have no leadership there.

The BLM controls over 85 percent of the land in Nevada. In the rural areas, those who for decades have had access to public lands for ranching, mining, logging and energy development are forced to deal with arbitrary and capricious rules that are influenced by special interests that profit from the D.C. rule-making and who fill the campaign coffers of Washington politicians. Far removed from the beautiful wide open spaces of Nevada, bureaucrats bend to the influence that is closest to them. Honest, hardworking citizens who seek freedom and economic independence must beg for deference from a federal government that is more intent on power and control than it is in serving the citizens of the nation. In and around Clark County, the situation is even worse.

Reno neighborhood stung by sage grouse rules

Huckabee: Republican debates providing little substance: http://www.rgj.com/story/news/politics/ ... /77320004/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because the BLM is so reluctant to release land to local disposition in Nevada, the cost of land has skyrocketed and the cost of living has become an impediment to growth. Where are the city and county to get the land for schools, roads, parks and other public use areas if they have to beg Washington for the land and then pay a premium price for it? How are people who see a future in Nevada to find housing and employment if the federal government is inhibiting economic development? How are businesses to find the employees to fill the jobs that could be created if there were better leadership in Washington? Unfortunately, many of the jobs are filled by those who came to this country illegally.

Illegal immigration costs the people of Nevada over $1.2 billion a year. That is nearly $6,000 for every man, woman and child in the state. Those are tax dollars that could go to build those schools, roads, sewers, water treatment plants and all the other services needed for a growing economy. Illegal immigrants absorb tax dollars from public schools, public health and public safety. Illegal immigration suppresses wages and undermines the ability of workers to organize and seek better working conditions. Illegal immigration is an affront to the very rule of law valued by all Americans and most assuredly by all Nevadans.
ADVERTISING

What is needed in Washington is a president who will rein in the executive branch and work with Congress to make sure the legislative branch does its job. What is needed in Washington is a president who has the will, strength and courage to lead. What is needed in Washington is a president who is not beholden to special interests and who is only interested in putting America and Americans first.

When I am elected president, I will bring the executive branch back inside the Constitution and will work with Congress to put America first. I will lead the effort to gain meaningful tax reform, trade reform and education reform. I will lead the effort to protect your right to worship as you see fit and your right to protect your family and property with the right to keep and bear arms. Together, we will make America great again.

Donald J. Trump, a Republican, is a businessman and a candidate for president of the United States
Last edited by larsenb on February 26th, 2017, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

larsenb wrote:I''ve posted this before, but will do it again here. He took the time to write an article for the Reno Gazette discussing the BLM/Rancher issue. I'm not aware that any other candidate even addressed this issue. Here is the link: http://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices ... /78422530/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Just this little item really increased my sense that Trump was on the up-and-up.
All I can say is....WOW
I am concerned about the Hammond's here in Oregon, imprisoned under double jeopardy by corrupt judges. If crooked judges are left in place, and decisions can go back to states, however this is phrased, I'm afraid nothing will help the cause in getting the Hammond's out and allowing them to ranch in peace.
There are Youtube videos showing us that many politicians here are guilty of having hedge funds geared to take lands away from people so Uranium can be taken and somehow made profit from.
Sorry for any repeated info, I just wanted to get the info out so people can glean from it enough info to know what is actually going on here and abroad.

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Joel
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Joel »

Image

Silver
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Silver »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... grind-halt

Former Reagan Administration White House Budget Director David Stockman says financial pain is a mathematical certainty. Stockman explains, “I think we are likely to have more of a fiscal bloodbath rather than fiscal stimulus. Unfortunately for Donald Trump, not only did the public vote the establishment out, they left on his doorstep the inheritance of 30 years of debt build-up and a fiscal policy that’s been really reckless in the extreme. People would like to think he’s the second coming of Ronald Reagan and we are going to have morning in America. Unfortunately, I don’t think it looks that promising because Trump is inheriting a mess that pales into insignificance what we had to deal with in January of 1981 when I joined the Reagan White House as Budget Director.” (close quote, emphasis mine)

This is just another way of saying that Trump will be held responsible for the financial crash, as Brandon Smith has been warning for months. Get ready for conservatives and "hoarders" to get a bad name.

Then, Stockman drops this bomb and says:

“I think what people are missing is this date, March 15th 2017. That’s the day that this debt ceiling holiday that Obama and Boehner put together right before the last election in October of 2015. That holiday expires. The debt ceiling will freeze in at $20 trillion. It will then be law. It will be a hard stop. The Treasury will have roughly $200 billion in cash. We are burning cash at a $75 billion a month rate. By summer, they will be out of cash. Then we will be in the mother of all debt ceiling crises. Everything will grind to a halt. I think we will have a government shutdown. There will not be Obama Care repeal and replace. There will be no tax cut. There will be no infrastructure stimulus. There will be just one giant fiscal bloodbath over a debt ceiling that has to be increased and no one wants to vote for.”

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

Silver wrote: February 26th, 2017, 6:30 pm http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-2 ... grind-halt

Former Reagan Administration White House Budget Director David Stockman says financial pain is a mathematical certainty. Stockman explains, “I think we are likely to have more of a fiscal bloodbath rather than fiscal stimulus. Unfortunately for Donald Trump, not only did the public vote the establishment out, they left on his doorstep the inheritance of 30 years of debt build-up and a fiscal policy that’s been really reckless in the extreme. People would like to think he’s the second coming of Ronald Reagan and we are going to have morning in America. Unfortunately, I don’t think it looks that promising because Trump is inheriting a mess that pales into insignificance what we had to deal with in January of 1981 when I joined the Reagan White House as Budget Director.” (close quote, emphasis mine)

This is just another way of saying that Trump will be held responsible for the financial crash, as Brandon Smith has been warning for months. Get ready for conservatives and "hoarders" to get a bad name.

Then, Stockman drops this bomb and says:

“I think what people are missing is this date, March 15th 2017. That’s the day that this debt ceiling holiday that Obama and Boehner put together right before the last election in October of 2015. That holiday expires. The debt ceiling will freeze in at $20 trillion. It will then be law. It will be a hard stop. The Treasury will have roughly $200 billion in cash. We are burning cash at a $75 billion a month rate. By summer, they will be out of cash. Then we will be in the mother of all debt ceiling crises. Everything will grind to a halt. I think we will have a government shutdown. There will not be Obama Care repeal and replace. There will be no tax cut. There will be no infrastructure stimulus. There will be just one giant fiscal bloodbath over a debt ceiling that has to be increased and no one wants to vote for.”
Tell us, who really cares? President Benson said that, in essence, no matter who takes office, they will be of little to no use. Even if Hillary, or Castle, or the Greatest Patriot of all Time were to take office, they won't be able to fix the problems that even Trump had dumped on him. Info has come out that indicates Obama to have been a traitor to the country. The spending of Obama's family was over the top like it was their entitlement at the expense of the American people. Both Bush's wanted the NWO to overtake America, as did some previous Presidents. Did Americans put a stop to it? No! And the problems have exponentially increased until we're smothered with them...and many people are still doing nothing except sitting back and complaining all the while getting their freebies from the Government...just like socialism intends and has planned until it wraps us into a nice little ball and eats us up. And there goes freedom and liberty as set up by God through men he raised up to bring this about. The proof is in the pudding, and this indictment will not go away without a fight from true and faithful Americans who are angry and putout with all the crap going on...another claim by ETB.

Rumors are like tumors, they are bread and then spread. FFA

larsenb
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Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: TRUMP.

Post by larsenb »

freedomforall wrote: February 25th, 2017, 12:24 am
larsenb wrote:I''ve posted this before, but will do it again here. He took the time to write an article for the Reno Gazette discussing the BLM/Rancher issue. I'm not aware that any other candidate even addressed this issue. Here is the link: http://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices ... /78422530/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Just this little item really increased my sense that Trump was on the up-and-up.
All I can say is....WOW
I am concerned about the Hammond's here in Oregon, imprisoned under double jeopardy by corrupt judges. If crooked judges are left in place, and decisions can go back to states, however this is phrased, I'm afraid nothing will help the cause in getting the Hammond's out and allowing them to ranch in peace.
There are Youtube videos showing us that many politicians here are guilty of having hedge funds geared to take lands away from people so Uranium can be taken and somehow made profit from. . . . . . .

Sorry for any repeated info, I just wanted to get the info out so people can glean from it enough info to know what is actually going on here and abroad.
Amen. It's beyond disgusting what they've done to the Hammonds. And I think the evidence shows very clearly that the death of Lavoy Finicum was premeditated, cold-blooded murder.

And wasn't it Hillary that arranged the Uranium deal?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

larsenb wrote: February 26th, 2017, 8:00 pm
freedomforall wrote: February 25th, 2017, 12:24 am
larsenb wrote:I''ve posted this before, but will do it again here. He took the time to write an article for the Reno Gazette discussing the BLM/Rancher issue. I'm not aware that any other candidate even addressed this issue. Here is the link: http://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices ... /78422530/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Just this little item really increased my sense that Trump was on the up-and-up.
All I can say is....WOW
I am concerned about the Hammond's here in Oregon, imprisoned under double jeopardy by corrupt judges. If crooked judges are left in place, and decisions can go back to states, however this is phrased, I'm afraid nothing will help the cause in getting the Hammond's out and allowing them to ranch in peace.
There are Youtube videos showing us that many politicians here are guilty of having hedge funds geared to take lands away from people so Uranium can be taken and somehow made profit from. . . . . . .

Sorry for any repeated info, I just wanted to get the info out so people can glean from it enough info to know what is actually going on here and abroad.
Amen. It's beyond disgusting what they've done to the Hammonds. And I think the evidence shows very clearly that the death of Lavoy Finicum was premeditated, cold-blooded murder.

And wasn't it Hillary that arranged the Uranium deal?
Yes. And crooked officials here in Oregon using hedge funds to take property away from ranchers where Uranium is suspected of being found.

Harry Reid was in on the Bundy horror show. He wanted to allow the Chinese to build a nuclear power plant right where the Bundy ranch is.
And yet he was such a good Moron and upholder to the Constitution that he labeled all the supporters of the Bundy's as "domestic terrorists" Is he not a traitor to the country and to his church in his words and actions?

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Joel
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Joel »


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Elizabeth
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Elizabeth »

"Donald Trump, acting through the attorney general and the secretary of education, has rescinded a horribly misguided Obama-era directive on transgender bathrooms.
Obama’s directive financially punished schools which did not allow boys to go into the girls’ bathrooms, locker rooms, and shower rooms any time they wanted. It would be hard to imagine a presidential directive that could be more obscene, grotesque, and dangerous.
It was published under the guise that it would provide “protections” for transgendered individuals, by allowing them to use whatever bathroom they wished regardless of whose privacy they might be invading. And now that President Trump has rescinded this misbegotten decree, he is being accused of stripping “protections” from transgendered students. Former Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said darkly that President Trump’s act represented a “thoughtless, cruel and sad rollback of transgender rights.”
But it’s just the reverse. The president is not removing protections, he is restoring them. He is returning to the states the right to reinstate safeguards for the sexual integrity, modesty, and privacy of the girls and young women under their charge. They will no longer have to fear who’s in the next stall or who will sidle up to them in the shower.
Transgenderism, or as it used to be known, transvestism, is a mental disorder. Until just recently, it was universally regarded by psychiatrists and psychologists as a form of mental illness which called for treatment. It was not something to be celebrated and protected and promoted at all costs.
Transvestites, or transgenders if you prefer, are seriously confused about their God-given sexual identity. God has created just two genders, or sexes, male and female. There are two and only two, not three, or five (LGBTQ), or 58 (as Facebook wants us to believe).The Scriptures are quite unambiguous about this. “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” (Genesis 1:27).
No rational society which cares about the mental health of its citizens, especially its youngest ones, should ever regard a mental disorder as something which ought to be celebrated or treated as normal or desirable. Rather, this condition, now euphemistically described as “gender dysphoria,” should arouse in us a compassion which moves us to help those afflicted with it to adjust to reality.
If you have a family member who thinks that aliens are talking to him through his radio, it does not help him to accept his version of reality. It does not help him to regard this imagined form of communication as just as normal and healthy as a chat with family members over dinner. It does not help him to punish those who try to help him face the reality that aliens are not in fact talking to him at all.
But this is what we have done with transvestism. We are now being told we must accept this condition as normal and even celebrate it as part of the rich diversity of the human sexual spectrum. No, no, and no.
Why must we refuse to indulge this gross distortion of human sexuality? We must if we care about people, because research indicates that 41% of transgenders try to kill themselves and 30 percent succeed. No compassionate, caring society would ever choose to normalize a lifestyle that leads predictably to suicidal ideation. That’s not compassion, that’s cruelty.
A rational culture will root its public policy in truth and scientific fact, not in science fiction. Every human being (with an infinitesimally small number of exceptions) is either a male or female according to the DNA found in every single cell of their bodies. It’s scientific fantasy of the “Mars Attacks” variety to believe otherwise.
Now to be sure we do not want any student to be bullied. We do not want Christian students to be pushed around, harassed, and physically intimidated on campus and we do not want that for transgendered students either. Each student is a human being made in the image of God and is entitled to courteous treatment.
But what all this all means is that our effort as a truly compassionate society must be to help afflicted individuals escape the prison house of their own distorted view of themselves and help them adjust their sexual identity to biological reality rather than the other way around.
It’s one thing to have mentally disordered people in a society. But it’s a special form of crazy to force everybody under threat of punishment to accept such a distorted view of sexuality as normal.
A return to sexual sanity in America is long overdue, and President Trump, by rescinding the transgender bathroom directive, has taken the first step in that journey. Good for him."
http://www.gopusa.com/?p=21242?omhide=true

larsenb
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by larsenb »

Elizabeth wrote: February 28th, 2017, 10:54 am "Donald Trump, acting through the attorney general and the secretary of education, has rescinded a horribly misguided Obama-era directive on transgender bathrooms. . . . . . .

It’s one thing to have mentally disordered people in a society. But it’s a special form of crazy to force everybody under threat of punishment to accept such a distorted view of sexuality as normal.
A return to sexual sanity in America is lhttp://www.gopusa.com/?p=21242?omhide=true
Good post. Thanks.

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Joel
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What Will Happen With The U.S Federal Reserve Under Donald Trump

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freedomforall
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by freedomforall »

larsenb wrote: February 28th, 2017, 12:43 pm
Elizabeth wrote: February 28th, 2017, 10:54 am "Donald Trump, acting through the attorney general and the secretary of education, has rescinded a horribly misguided Obama-era directive on transgender bathrooms. . . . . . .

It’s one thing to have mentally disordered people in a society. But it’s a special form of crazy to force everybody under threat of punishment to accept such a distorted view of sexuality as normal.
A return to sexual sanity in America is lhttp://www.gopusa.com/?p=21242?omhide=true
Good post. Thanks.
After all, isn't Obama gay? Would not this explain his very loose moral code?

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Elizabeth
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Elizabeth »

It does indeed.

larsenb
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by larsenb »

Anybody agree with me that Trump knocked it out of the park in his address to Congress tonight.

A wonderful and even incredible speech and performance.

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Sirocco
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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Sirocco »

Salty Democrats were so salty.

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Joel
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Re: TRUMP.

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Mormons on Trump

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Mormons on Trump

The following quotes are taken directly from the responses to open-ended survey questions about Mormons’ feelings about members of the Church who belong to the Republican or Democratic parties. I have attempted to capture all the comments about Donald Trump from the survey.

For an analysis and discussion of these comments and their import, click here.

The number indicated is the respondent’s unique number. Ultimately, I will publish all of the data so you can not only see their full quotes and comments but how they answered all of the other questions as well. Also indicated next to each quote is the self-reported political affiliation and whether or not they are active in the Church.

#7, Liberal, Active “I do not understand how Church members can support Trump who is the antithesis to what the Church professes are their principles and values.”

#12, Democrat, Active “Although I know some Republican members of the church who are still completely anti-Trump, I am completely disheartened by the vast number of members of the church who have jumped on the “Trump Train” and have vehemently defended him even though is actions and platform are almost entirely the antithesis of what the Savior teaches.”

#51, Conservative, Less Active, “In the past, I saw no problem. In a Donald Trump world, I feel horrified.”

#72, Liberal, Active, “Supporting ideals is fine, but I honestly do not understand how any Mormon in good standing can openly support Donald Trump and think that’s okay.”

#111, Democrat, Less Active, “I think Mormons who helped elect Donald Trump are hypocritical beyond words.”

#190, Neutral, Active, “With the exception of Donald Trump, who I feel is not really Republican and is an odious human being, I am fine with anybody supporting anyone. Support for Trump means, in my opinion, that someone is either ignorant of his horribleness or wants to excuse the inexcusable.”

#259, Neutral, Active, “I’m not sure anyone who can call themselves a Christian could have voted for Trump, but 60% of Mormons apparently did.”

#265, Liberal, Active, “These members seem feel emboldened about mixing religion and politics within the church due to the perceived validation of the church for the Republican Party (unfortunately lately strengthened by leaders such as Julie Beck and the MoTab decision to support Donald Trump).”

#358, Liberal, Active, “I feel like many Republicans inside the church and out are putting party over principle. This can be seen in how Donald Trump, a man whose standards are completely incompatible with LDS beliefs, carried Utah by a large margin.”

#363, Conservative, Active, “Supporting Trump specifically does make me strongly question why they would support him since many of the things he’s said and stood for directly goes against church teachings. Some people I’ve held in high regard that I discovered voted for Trump really made me question them.”

#398, Democrat, Active, “The Trump republicans are especially in opposition with LDS values and I’m shocked at how many LDS people felt good about embracing Trump just because he’s a republican.”

#649, Democrat, Active, “Pre-Trump I had no issue with them but post Trump I have significant issues. He lacks a moral compass and I cannot understand how any practicing LDS person could have voted for him.”

#663, “Person before Party,” Active, “There seems to be a great of hypocrisy when it comes to what type of behavior is acceptable for politicians. For example, the church taking a stand against porn, yet Melania Trump poses nude.”

#681, Democrat, Active, “But as for the current Republican regime, the “Trump” Republicans, it literally makes me sick to my stomach when I see members of the church as Trump supporters. Literally nothing he espouses or stands for is in line with LDS gospel or any interpretation of Christianity, in my opinion. Also, the LDS people who back Trump also seem to post more hateful stuff on Facebook, post fake or seriously wrong news articles or memes. Crazy, most of these LDS people leave this to Facebook, -and don’t betray this sentiment in normal life. It is odd, that as I was very vocal, especially online about how bad Trump was, a few church people came to me, very secretly and said they thought I was brave for posting my views, but they agreed with me and secretly did not vote for Trump. But why the need to feel so secret about it?”

#721, Democrat, Less Active, “Mormons can be Republican and still decent human beings; however, they cannot have voted for Donald Trump and be a disciple of Christ.”

#842, Liberal, Active, “There are principles in both parties that are supported by the gospel and principles that are not, but there are clearly politicians that are warned against in the Book of Mormon and who violate all the commandments and our values. (Trump. I’m talking about Trump.)”

852, Liberal, Active, “Lately I’ve been disappointed - especially with the anti-immigration, anti-refugee, and anti-poor agenda, the destruction of social assistance, and backing Trump.”

#876, Neutral, Active, “With Trump as their leader, spewing hatred and lies (including climate change denial) that some are eating up as fact, I’m sad. I know many who supported Trump only for the abortion issue to stop baby parts being sold (a lie, that’s not happening).” “… In this election, the party allowed Trump to run, which I knew was a big mistake. And look where we are now! I mean seriously? I can’t understand how LDS can vote for this lying, reprehensible, self-serving person who will make a mess of our country. He continues to divide us!”

#900, Other, Less Active, “With the election of Trump I feel that members who supported him (for any reason) and the Republican party as a whole, hare hypocrites/wilfully ignorant at best, wilfully malicious at worst.”

#946, Liberal, Active, “I don’t understand why church members supported Donald Trump so often, and I admit that I’ve been disappointed by that, though I know that many who voted for him are good, compassionate members.”

#956, Neutral, Active, “I do think even most LDS Republicans I’ve met don’t like Trump though. I think no matter what your political ideals are, a church member who understands the teachings of Christ should be able to see that Trump is not a good man.”

#970, Independent, Active, “It has been a difficult election with trump, who imo has nothing in common with myself, a member of the church and is completely offensive. It was hard for me to see the strong support he had from some members of the church.”

#981, Republican, Active, “It blows my mind that members of the Church supported Trump, but there are good things about other Republican politicians.”

#1012, Democrat, Active, “I still don’t understand how so many members could look past President-Elect Trump’s hateful rhetoric towards minorities, women, and people with disabilities. For me, he doesn’t represent the values I hold dear namely honesty and compassion for the less fortunate.”

#1052, Liberal, Active, “I feel in the past with disagreements is really different than aligning with Trump who doesn’t even align with conservatives. I answered neither agree or disagree to the temple question, but I do not believe supporting Trump aligns with the gospel.”

#1093, Neutral, Active, “I can’t see how anyone can support Trump.”

#1125, Democrat, Less Active, “I had no opinion until 2016, when Trump was voted into office and LDS church members were excited to support him.”

#1134, Democrat, Active, “Those who support Donald Trump have a misunderstanding of the gospel.”

#1150, Democrat, Less Active, “I feel like there is a lot of hypocrisy in regard to church members who align with the Republican party, especially Trump voters. The church highly values “caring for your neighbor,” “being Christ-like,” and “loving one another,” yet Republicans advocate for cutting food stamps, social security, public school funding, among many other things. Their open and public anti-gay, homophobic “gospel” policies are not Christ-like by any means. On Sundays, many Mormon Republicans say they care about everyone’s well-being. But the other days of the week, I see many of them make hate speech about Muslims, gays, and immigrants. The millions of Mormons who voted for the disgusting and horrible man that is Donald Trump, reinforce this notion.”

#1294, “Progressive Independent,” Active, “I can’t believe that people who say they believe in high morals and family values would vote for a person like Trump and be okay with Russian interference in our elections. It is amazing how many people from this church still believe fake news that gives unjust and untrue judgements of Democrats. I love this church but I am embarrassed by the extent of support of Trump I see from many members.”

#1346, Democrat, Active, “Generally I feel they are entitled to their opinion and that we can agree to disagree; however, when they support a party candidate even when they personally disagree with him (President-elect Trump), I find it hard to respect their support of the party line.”

#1355, Conservative, Active, “The Republicans used to be the party of conservatives. Now it seems to be all about racism and misogyny. It’s disgusting. I was at LDS Employment and one of the service missionaries was talking about mailing in his wife’s ballot “so that she would vote for Trump,” as he put it. I am still out of work, but I haven’t been back since. How can I seek assistance from someone I no longer trust?”

#1369, Democrat, Active, “The Church typically passes on making judgments about how moral issues might intersect with politics. Donald Trump is a case in point. For the Church to ignore the evil of this man, and the damage that he may do to the democratic institution that it claims to revere as inspired, is a profound moral failure. But this is not new—the Church did the same thing when Hitler was ascendant in Germany, and Heber J. Grant counseled German saints to go along with the Nazis rather than to resist. If the Church missed a tryant as obvious as Hitler, it can hardly be expected to recognize the dangers of Trump.”

#1491, Democrat, Less Active, “Some concerns: More members voted for Trump than other candidates; a man who clearly exhibits serious character deficits. Furthermore, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir inexplicably accepted an invitation to sing at Trump’s inauguration recently. In this instance I’m left to wonder if conformity to authority has become our highest and most uncompromisingly dangerous value? Sometimes the most noble thing to do is to courageously protest. Sometimes the most virtuous thing to do is to raise a voice of warning, like the bold prophets of old, against the wicked, authoritarian leaders of their own nations.”

#1527, Democrat, Active, “As a Mormon I feel that they are full of it. Everything that Trump do or talk about Mormons teach their children that those are bad things. Yet they support Trump.”

#1574, Liberal, Active, “I like the conservative view of those like Evan McMullin but completely disagree with those that support Trump. Besides Trump is not even conservative he is just horrible.”

#1589, “Moderate,” Active, “I feel strongly that personal support for Trump is incompatible with the gospel. I think many members have been duped in his case.”

1630, Liberal, Active, “I think [LDS Democrats] are getting too fixated on the MoTab singing at Trump’s Inauguration.”

1675, Republican, Active, “Traditionally I would agree with them (I myself am a registered Republican). However, I feel that it is important to research each candidate and issue on their own and not blindly follow party. For instance, I did not vote for Donald Trump. I’m concerned with some Democratic friends who are going to the extreme on opposing Donald Trump. I did not vote for him but I’m praying that he will do the job well. I will focus my attention on my representatives if I oppose any initiatives he supports.”

#1695, Liberal, Less Active, “If they support Republicans like trump, they can’t really claim that they hold the values of the church close to their heart. If there’s a middle ground, I’m okay with it.”

#1707, Democrat, Less Active, “A surrogate of a certain Republican that is LDS definitely rubs me the wrong way. Also, giving a prayer to start a Trump Rally by an ex-LDS leader is definitely a no-no. Don’t even get me started on the MoTab issue, lol.”

#1778, Neutral, Active, “I am currently shocked at people who support Trump as a person who is a morally corrupt man that seems to stand for everything the Church teaches agains. He appears very much to me to be a King Man!”

#1805, Democrat, Active, “There are some things that may agree with Republican ideals, but with Donald Trump at the foreground, I will stay as far away as I possibly can. He is the end of the Republican party. Hopefully not the end of America as we know it.”

#1843, Libertarian/Anarchist, Active, “I do wonder how Trump supporters reconcile his anti immigration stances- among others- with Church policy and doctrine.”

#1865, Democrat, Active, “Lately I feel very ashamed of Utah for initially rejecting Trump and then delivering the vote for him. I know all weren’t Mormons but I have a hard time feeling good about Republican Mormons now. We had a moment to shine and blew it. Republican politicians have no spine. Most wouldn’t trust their own kids to a man like Trump yet they will fall in line with him and his hate.”

#1930, Democrat, Active, “I don’t however think that Trump is a good representation of Mormon values or really republican values for that matter. But if you voted for him, you voted and I’m sure there are reasons but I didn’t and that’s okay because we all have agency.”

#2018, Democrat, Active, “I am horrified by those who support Trump, Pence, Ted Cruz, and some others. These specific people spout such hateful speech and seek to interfere with the rights of others for religious/“moral” reasons. I find this particularly irritating since there is supposed to be a distinct separation of church and state as outlined in our Constitution.”

#2154, Democrat, Active, “Trump? I don’t understand the degree of cognitive dissonance required to accept and promote him or his ideas.”

#2233, Conservative, Active, “I felt fine about [LDS Republicans] until this year—now I can’t bear it when someone says they support one specific politician in particular (Trump). I feel like they are being the “dumb sheep” following him just because he is Republican, and are grasping at things to defend him. I’m even feeling angry as I type this.”

“#2322, Independent, Less Active, “I also think many of them hold on strongly to the pro-life camp. So much so that they vote for Trump, who degrades women, because he at least is pro-life.”

#2484, Republican, Less Active, “It is comforting to know that there are people who can recognize how the values of the gospel can be protected by choosing to stand behind a politician who promises things in alignment with gospel principles. For example, when Trump is promising to ‘make America great again’ by trying to protect jobs so men can support their families, I believe that is a step closer for me as a mother being able to plan on getting to be a stay at home mom with lots of kids. (However, I do acknowledge that his policies against allowing refugees are contrary to what religious leaders have asked us to do at previous general conferences in serving refugee families).”

#2511, Democrat, Active, “the Republican Party seems primarily concerned with serving Mammon and doesn’t appear to have any other true priorities. It also has obvious problems with tribalism, xenophobia, and even racialism that have all reached unusual heights with Trump (though it seems to me he is the apotheosis of 2-3 decades of talk-radio conservatism rather than its cause).”

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Re: TRUMP.

Post by Joel »


Some Mormons Don’t Think Much of Mormons Who Voted for Trump

In my survey of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints about their opinions on politics, I didn’t ask about Donald Trump specifically—or even about some of the hot-button issues surrounding him (the wall, Muslim immigration, or expulsion of undocumented immigrants). Still, about 100 people mentioned President Trump in their remarks.

Remember, the people who responded to the survey were about evenly split between Republicans and Democrats and conservatives and liberals. Obviously, this means Democrats and liberals are over-represented in the results, but their responses may still be representative of other liberal Mormons.

One respondent who identified himself as a registered Republican, offered a weak defense of President Trump, along with a similarly weak condemnation of Democrats in the church who oppose him. “I feel that it is important to research each candidate and issue on their own and not blindly follow party. For instance, I did not vote for Donald Trump. I’m concerned with some Democratic friends who are going to the extreme on opposing Donald Trump. I did not vote for him but I’m praying that he will do the job well. I will focus my attention on my representatives if I oppose any initiatives he supports.”

The others who mentioned Trump, overwhelmingly identify as “liberal” or “Democrat” and had nothing good to say about Trump. They also condemned those who voted for him.

One succinct comment from a less-active Mormon Democrat is representative of many others. “Mormons can be Republican and still decent human beings; however, they cannot have voted for Donald Trump and be a disciple of Christ.”

Another Democrat who is an active Mormon said, “Those who support Donald Trump have a misunderstanding of the gospel.”

An Active Mormon who describes her politics as “Progressive Independent,” said, “I can’t believe that people who say they believe in high morals and family values would vote for a person like Trump and be okay with Russian interference in our elections. It is amazing how many people from this church still believe fake news that gives unjust and untrue judgments of Democrats. I love this church but I am embarrassed by the extent of support of Trump I see from many members.”

To read all of the comments about Trump, click here.


Republican columnist and two-time LDS Bishop, LaVarr Webb notes tensions are likely to get worse. “More liberal Mormons will never accept Trump because of his character flaws and also because he is directly attacking liberal ideology and decades of government and society moving to the left. The divisions are very deep and will probably worsen under Trump.”

LaVarr explains why LDS Republicans have come to support Trump. “Most Mormon Republicans supported candidates other than Trump for the GOP nomination. They recoiled at many of the things he said and his narcissistic personality. It took a long time for many Mormon Republicans to accept him as the party nominee and he won only a plurality in the general election.”

He continued, “While many Republicans expected Trump to act more presidential after becoming president, he has shown he is going to govern the same way he campaigned. However, he has become more acceptable to mainstream Republicans, including Mormons, because his cabinet selections (and Supreme Court nomination) and his early actions indicate he is going to govern in a more conservative way than many expected. Many Republicans had questioned whether he is a real conservative.”

Active Mormon and left-leaning, former Salt Lake City Council member Soren Simonsen agrees that feelings between LDS Republicans and Democrats are likely to get worse. “There is already such great division in political and religious values, as your survey suggested. I would venture to guess that these divides will most likely grow during his presidency. If the past month has been an indicator, we’re certainly seeing this. His abusive treatment of the media, his exaggerations and outright lies, his wave of executive orders and additional legislation on the way, will most likely continue to stoke the fires of these divides. There is no surprise, I suspect, in what Trump is doing. It’s what he said he would do and those that supported him are probably applauding his efforts. But given the human impact of his actions, the fires of protest are also heating up in response.”

Soren highlighted abortion as a source of discord between LDS Republican and Democrats. We’ll examine that issue in a future article more thoroughly.

Feelings toward Mormons who support Trump are so hostile from the left that I asked both LaVarr and Soren how they would counsel Mormons who are angry with their coreligionists.

LaVarr offered this response, “I would encourage them to understand that there are many Mormons who believe the country is in deep trouble and many have come to the conclusion, however reluctantly, that Trump may be the person to turn it around. We won’t know for a year or so.”

Soren was a bit more philosophical.
It’s hard for me to imagine why anyone would vote for someone who seems to represent everything so completely opposite of who Christ was and what he taught. Still, one of the central lessons from Christ first earliest teachings in the Sermon on the Mount to his final words to his disciples at the Last Supper to “love one another,” is to love. Love is the antidote. Christ said we can “love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you.”

Matthew 24 describes what many see as a revelation of the latter days. It describes how the “love of many shall wax cold” and “if possible, the very elect will be deceived” are precursors to human and natural disasters of the last days. I believe that Trump’s “I alone can save our country” attitude encompasses Christ’s references to the “false Christs” who shall come. But the false Christs are not the problem, they are the symptom of a larger deception. The key deception is when the issues we value become so important that we begin to hate one another. Hate is the deception that breaks down society. We’re deceived by putting our own preferences, political or otherwise, above loving our neighbor as ourselves. When we hate, we have been truly deceived. When we hate a brother or sister, another child of God, then we’re basically denying that God is our mutual Father. In hating our neighbor, we reject Him.

I might offer this suggestion in closing. When Christ encountered a blind man one day, his disciples asked him who sinned, the man or his parents, that he was born blind. Christ replied that neither the man nor his parents sinned, but that through himself the works of God would be made manifest. If the primary counsel of God is to love, then I’m OK with seeing people I disagree with as neither good nor bad, but as people who I can appreciate, respect and love, despite our differences. If we emulate love, then we are His disciples indeed.

The message I would give to anyone who sees another’s values or choices as wrong — just love. The message I would give to all those who voted for Trump, and truly to Trump himself — I love you. That’s the only message that matters.

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