Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

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Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Sunain » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:31 pm

Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’ for anonymous sharing of documents and videos
By Michael Alison Chandler December 20 at 7:00 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... f89bf7d474

A former Mormon launched a web site Monday offering a secure portal for people who want to leak internal documents or videos about the Utah-based church.

The Mormon Wikileaks web site seeks to build on a growing number of leaks that have shed light on the inner workings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its position on controversial issues such as gay marriage.

The site was launched by Ryan McKnight, of Las Vegas, Nevada, who gained national attention in October after posting a series of inside conversations between senior Mormon church officials on a YouTube channel called “Mormon Leaks.”

“Our goal is, pure and simple, transparency,” McKnight said in an interview. “Sometimes people come across information through the course of their jobs that makes them feel uneasy or like it is something that church members deserve to know.”

He said the web site provides an anonymous “avenue” for them to share it.

The web site comes as digital information is easily shared and is modeled after Wikileaks, the international group that has collected and shared millions of government documents.

A spokesman for the Mormon church declined to comment on the new site. Church employees sign non-disclosure agreements.

I'm not sure really what this site is trying to accomplish other than try to get someone to post financial figures. Pretty much everything else is out there on the Internet as it is. When the batch of 'leaked' documents and videos was posted in September 2016, everyone online was like 'this is boring' or 'nothing we already didn't' know. All these people opposed to the church think they are going to find some corruption or a smoking gun that will cause the entire church to collapse.

So basically this site is going to try to 'leak' information about church members tithing and how it is spent by the church because apparently that information isn't already out there. Anyone that's a ward/stake financial clerk knows how the funds are used in the church as it is. If someone did leak information, would be 'boring', 'dry' financial information that no one really truly cares about but only do now because its not public. Church run/owned businesses pay taxes just like any other for profit company, people try to ignore that point or are ignorant.

Utah is still the most Charitable and best for Volunteers; its basically been the same for years including 2016.

Here's how Utah fared in 2014:
1st • Volunteer rate
1st • Percentage of donated income
1st • Percentage of population who claim to have donated time
1st • Percengate of population who claim to have donated money
4th • Percentage of taxpayers who donated to charity
13th • Growth in charitable giving (2012 vs. 2006)
1st • Median contribution to charity

http://www.sltrib.com/home/1965526-155/ ... able-state
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryndill ... c91760291d
http://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstra ... 694bfc136d
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... 16-ranked/
https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-leas ... ates/8555/

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Col. Flagg » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:40 pm

I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church HQ employee and Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby kittycat51 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:54 pm

Col. Flagg wrote:I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(


Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby tribrac » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:38 pm

Some guy wrote:
“Our goal is, pure and simple, transparency,” McKnight said in an interview. “Sometimes people come across information through the course of their jobs that makes them feel uneasy or like it is something that church members deserve to know.”



Its all about transparency, so I'm certain he will have no problem whatsoever publishing all of the Mormon Wikileaks financials, and his personal financial data.

Unless it is not all about transparency and he is in it to grind his axe, exact his revenge, or develop his own fame and fortune.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Vision » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:39 am

kittycat51 wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(


Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.



Being "smart" with money and making a full disclosure about where the money goes are two separate things.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby inho » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:51 am

tribrac wrote:Its all about transparency, so I'm certain he will have no problem whatsoever publishing all of the Mormon Wikileaks financials, and his personal financial data.

Isn't that what they have been promising to do from the beginnig? Although, he probably won't publish his personal financial data, but why should he? These are the same people who made fun of Kate Kelly for asking donations to buy a laptop, so they really would be hypocrites if they tried now get personal gain from this project (I must add that I think it is funny how both exmormons and believing mormons dislike KK).

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby kittycat51 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:23 pm

Vision wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(


Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.



Being "smart" with money and making a full disclosure about where the money goes are two separate things.


What I'm trying to say is I don't wake up every morning worrying how the Church is using it's funds. For that matter I don't even wonder. My testimony is not based on these events.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby skmo » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:18 pm

Sunain wrote:I'm not sure really what this site is trying to accomplish other than try to get someone to post financial figures.


Well I'm fairly sure. I think Ryan McKnight lied when he said “Our goal is, pure and simple, transparency,”

Had he said "Our goal is to do anything we can to make the LDS Church look bad" I'd think he was telling the actual truth. I'm quite sure he'll give all manner of assurances that he wants "enlightenment" and "Transparency" and "Truth" but those words would be the same kind as a candidate gives to get elected, as a lawyer gives a jury, or O.J. did when saying he was still looking for the real killers.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Obrien » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:32 pm

Vision wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(


Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.



Being "smart" with money and making a full disclosure about where the money goes are two separate things.


And being a church based on the principle of common consent should mean explicit honesty and transparency to the donors of the funds.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Obrien » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:35 pm

kittycat51 wrote:
Vision wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I hate to break the news to you, but there is undoubtedly some serious financial info. that the church hopes never sees the light of day, especially in regards to the City Creek project. And, to a lesser degree, what the FP, Q of the 12 and Q of the 70 receive in terms of financial gifts and day to day living. If you want an idea of what it might all entail, listen to the interview Daymon Smith (former church Anthropologist) gave RE the corporate church on Mormon Stories - it is an eye-opener. :(


Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.



Being "smart" with money and making a full disclosure about where the money goes are two separate things.


What I'm trying to say is I don't wake up every morning worrying how the Church is using it's funds. For that matter I don't even wonder. My testimony is not based on these events.


I don't think you should have a testimony of the church. Focus on Jesus and minimize the importance of "the church". The church will not and cannot save you.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby kittycat51 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:28 pm

Obrien wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
Vision wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
Good thing if any of it is true without exaggeration, I won't lose much sleep over it. Look the church is SMART when it comes to it's financial dealings. With all the good they do locally and globally it surpasses most organizations. I would advise any active member to stay away from this website. It's just another one of Satan's tools. Keep your focus on what you know to be true, and remember whose Church this is.



Being "smart" with money and making a full disclosure about where the money goes are two separate things.


What I'm trying to say is I don't wake up every morning worrying how the Church is using it's funds. For that matter I don't even wonder. My testimony is not based on these events.


I don't think you should have a testimony of the church. Focus on Jesus and minimize the importance of "the church". The church will not and cannot save you.


You seem to be putting words in my mouth where they didn't come from. I don't see where I mentioned 'testimony of the church'. I do focus on the Savior, and am well aware of who saves me.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Obrien » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 am

Not trying to place words into your mouth, just trying to understand your thoughts. I don't worry much about how the church uses funds anymore either.
Glad to hear you've got a testimony.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Separatist » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:48 am

"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

Or are some things hidden that need to remain so?
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Obrien » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Separatist wrote:"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

Or are some things hidden that need to remain so?

You or I may believe things need to be hidden, but eventually everything comes out.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby skmo » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:06 pm

Obrien wrote:
Separatist wrote:"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

Or are some things hidden that need to remain so?

You or I may believe things need to be hidden, but eventually everything comes out.


I'm more concerned with the motivation of this undertaking. In the case of Edward Snowden, I tend to believe he leaked all kinds of NSA secrets because he believed he saw the gov't doing something illegal and he wanted the people to be more secure with their liberty than the gov't with their secrets. With the way our political climate has developed recently, it seems there'd be a greater chance they'd be used more for malicious purposes than noble ones.

This smells much more like a malcontent's witch hunt. It's not really much different than a political groups desire for "transparency" which they mean: "If you bring us something we can use against those we don't like we'll take it, but if it makes them look good, we'll bury it."

I'm not really worried about what is going to come out with this. I will never be in a position of leadership in the LDS Church so I won't be one of the ones in the spotlight. For those who are, I have faith that regardless of how much someone wants to make the church look bad, Christ will still be the Savior, the Holy Spirit will still whisper to me when I calm myself enough to hear, and God will direct those He chooses to lead His church or He'll have them rebuked and/or replaced if He needs them to be.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Obrien » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:30 pm

skmo wrote:
Obrien wrote:
Separatist wrote:"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

Or are some things hidden that need to remain so?

You or I may believe things need to be hidden, but eventually everything comes out.


I'm more concerned with the motivation of this undertaking. In the case of Edward Snowden, I tend to believe he leaked all kinds of NSA secrets because he believed he saw the gov't doing something illegal and he wanted the people to be more secure with their liberty than the gov't with their secrets. With the way our political climate has developed recently, it seems there'd be a greater chance they'd be used more for malicious purposes than noble ones.

This smells much more like a malcontent's witch hunt. It's not really much different than a political groups desire for "transparency" which they mean: "If you bring us something we can use against those we don't like we'll take it, but if it makes them look good, we'll bury it."

I'm not really worried about what is going to come out with this. I will never be in a position of leadership in the LDS Church so I won't be one of the ones in the spotlight. For those who are, I have faith that regardless of how much someone wants to make the church look bad, Christ will still be the Savior, the Holy Spirit will still whisper to me when I calm myself enough to hear, and God will direct those He chooses to lead His church or He'll have them rebuked and/or replaced if He needs them to be.

LDSCo already released a lot if info about our charitable works. The Ensign runs lots of articles, there are 10 min infomercials before and after conference, there are public pronouncements about how much $$ and service we provide etc. I'm more interested in the income side of LDSCo, and mainly because part of their income comes from me and my family. They are quite recalcitrant about releasing THAT info.
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby rewcox » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:39 pm

Who needs Mormon Wikileaks when you have LDSFF?

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby kittycat51 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:01 am

For those outside of Utah, thought you might want to see this. But then again nothing bothering me here. Move along Michael Alison Chandler and get a life. I just read this news article but I will continue to refuse to STAY AWAY from Mormon Wikileaks website.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=14 ... lds-church

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Col. Flagg » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:46 pm

kittycat51 wrote:For those outside of Utah, thought you might want to see this. But then again nothing bothering me here. Move along Michael Alison Chandler and get a life. I just read this news article but I will continue to refuse to STAY AWAY from Mormon Wikileaks website.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=14 ... lds-church

The $120,000 annual salary given to the GA's is in addition to a very large and substantial financial 'gift' that is given to them when they are first called as a GA. I won't reveal what that is as it would cause great uproar here on the board.

So here's my question... many Stake Presidents and Bishops (and their Counselors) also give a LOT of their time to serve in the church - why aren't they compensated financially for their time? I know of some Bishops who serve up to 15-20 hours per week in their callings - where's their $60,000?
"Truth is in history, but history is not the truth." - Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby JandD6572 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:04 pm

guess my concern with church money is something that I read today that the general authorities receive what is called a "cost of living" expense? of over 100 thousand a year?? apparently this is no secret with the western Mormons?? because this is new to me, also, is really bothering considering always being taught that they are not paid, so can someone share some light on this new (to me) information?? I never knew they received a pay check.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby ebenezerarise » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:21 pm

Col. Flagg wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:For those outside of Utah, thought you might want to see this. But then again nothing bothering me here. Move along Michael Alison Chandler and get a life. I just read this news article but I will continue to refuse to STAY AWAY from Mormon Wikileaks website.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=14 ... lds-church

The $120,000 annual salary given to the GA's is in addition to a very large and substantial financial 'gift' that is given to them when they are first called as a GA. I won't reveal what that is as it would cause great uproar here on the board.

So here's my question... many Stake Presidents and Bishops (and their Counselors) also give a LOT of their time to serve in the church - why aren't they compensated financially for their time? I know of some Bishops who serve up to 15-20 hours per week in their callings - where's their $60,000?


What bunch of crap, Flagg. I know from a very close, personal source this is not true.

The Mormon Wikileaks site is going to die because the only crap it can dig up is boring.

It is only when some source starts forcing the Church to make public what people confess to their Bishops that things will ever get interesting.

As it is now, this "information" isn't interesting, it doesn't add to transparency and it showcases how petty and weak the anti-movement has become.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby JandD6572 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:24 pm

ebenezerarise wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:For those outside of Utah, thought you might want to see this. But then again nothing bothering me here. Move along Michael Alison Chandler and get a life. I just read this news article but I will continue to refuse to STAY AWAY from Mormon Wikileaks website.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=14 ... lds-church

The $120,000 annual salary given to the GA's is in addition to a very large and substantial financial 'gift' that is given to them when they are first called as a GA. I won't reveal what that is as it would cause great uproar here on the board.

So here's my question... many Stake Presidents and Bishops (and their Counselors) also give a LOT of their time to serve in the church - why aren't they compensated financially for their time? I know of some Bishops who serve up to 15-20 hours per week in their callings - where's their $60,000?


What bunch of crap, Flagg. I know from a very close, personal source this is not true.

The Mormon Wikileaks site is going to die because the only crap it can dig up is boring.

It is only when some source starts forcing the Church to make public what people confess to their Bishops that things will ever get interesting.

As it is now, this "information" isn't interesting, it doesn't add to transparency and it showcases how petty and weak the anti-movement has become.



so then the GA receiving money is or is not true then?

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby ebenezerarise » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 pm

It is NOT true.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby kittycat51 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:39 pm

ebenezerarise wrote:It is NOT true.


It is true. My father received a stipend when he served in the Quorum of Seventy. He would never tell us how much, but he told us that he got one. No big deal. Don't let it shake your faith. The Church of JESUS CHRIST is not dependent on cost of living monies.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby butterfly » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:46 am

JandD6572 wrote:guess my concern with church money is something that I read today that the general authorities receive what is called a "cost of living" expense? of over 100 thousand a year?? apparently this is no secret with the western Mormons?? because this is new to me, also, is really bothering considering always being taught that they are not paid, so can someone share some light on this new (to me) information?? I never knew they received a pay check.


It was really disturbing for me when I first found out, too. Our family had sacrificed a lot in order to pay our 10% tithing on gross regularly.

Then I learned about how the scriptures teach that tithing is paid on your surplus only- meaning after you provide for your needs and the needs of your family, you then look at what is left over. This left over amount is what you take 10% of to pay your tithing.

This is also how mission presidents are instructed to pay tithing - only on their surplus.

We have a lot of poverty- stricken members in our ward. I try to help relieve that burden by explaining how the scriptures teach about tithing. Then when they find out that the GAs receive a nice salary, these members will not have withheld food from their families in order to sustain those salaries/stipends/allowances.

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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Analyzing » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:51 am

JandD6572 wrote:
ebenezerarise wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:For those outside of Utah, thought you might want to see this. But then again nothing bothering me here. Move along Michael Alison Chandler and get a life. I just read this news article but I will continue to refuse to STAY AWAY from Mormon Wikileaks website.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=14 ... lds-church

The $120,000 annual salary given to the GA's is in addition to a very large and substantial financial 'gift' that is given to them when they are first called as a GA. I won't reveal what that is as it would cause great uproar here on the board.

So here's my question... many Stake Presidents and Bishops (and their Counselors) also give a LOT of their time to serve in the church - why aren't they compensated financially for their time? I know of some Bishops who serve up to 15-20 hours per week in their callings - where's their $60,000?


What bunch of crap, Flagg. I know from a very close, personal source this is not true.

The Mormon Wikileaks site is going to die because the only crap it can dig up is boring.

It is only when some source starts forcing the Church to make public what people confess to their Bishops that things will ever get interesting.

As it is now, this "information" isn't interesting, it doesn't add to transparency and it showcases how petty and weak the anti-movement has become.



so then the GA receiving money is or is not true then?

ebenezerarise wrote:It is NOT true.

Gordon B. Hinckley
I should like to add, parenthetically for your information, that the living allowances given the General Authorities, which are very modest in comparison with executive compensation in industry and the professions, come from this business income and not from the tithing of the people.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g=eng&_r=1

"General Authorities leave their careers when they are called into full-time church service," said Eric Hawkins, spokesman for the church. "When they do so, they focus all of their time on serving the church, and are given a living allowance. The living allowance is uniform for all General Authorities. None of the funds for this living allowance come from the tithing of church members, but instead from proceeds of the church's financial investments."
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42827128&nid=148&title=mormonleaks-dumps-4-new-documents-about-lds-church

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skmo
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby skmo » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:05 am

My first problem with an organization like this is clear: It almost certainly does not start with a desire to find pure fact, but rather someone's "truth" they wish others to share. It's very existence will serve as a tool that says "The LDS Church is hiding something and I'm going to find it."

That kind of an attitude can, I say CAN be motivated by a pure desire to ensure not one cent is ever misplaced of the Widow's Mite. In that same vein, political candidates CAN be honest in their campaign promises. Only a fool believes either will ever come to fruition. No one involved in this WANTS to make sure the LDS Church is shown to be fair and honest. If that happens, they don't succeed (and thereby get fame and/or fortune) by finding proper actions. They only look good by making sure other people look bad.

My second problem is this: Since they are specifically looking for something bad, they're going to find it. If it doesn't exist, someone will make sure to create what is needed. If you look for something long enough, you find it, even if it didn't previously exist. It's kind of the opposite of a placebo effect.
Governments don’t live together, people live together. With governments you don’t always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well I’ve come here to give you either one - Or get either one from you.

JandD6572
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby JandD6572 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:25 pm

butterfly wrote:
JandD6572 wrote:guess my concern with church money is something that I read today that the general authorities receive what is called a "cost of living" expense? of over 100 thousand a year?? apparently this is no secret with the western Mormons?? because this is new to me, also, is really bothering considering always being taught that they are not paid, so can someone share some light on this new (to me) information?? I never knew they received a pay check.


It was really disturbing for me when I first found out, too. Our family had sacrificed a lot in order to pay our 10% tithing on gross regularly.

Then I learned about how the scriptures teach that tithing is paid on your surplus only- meaning after you provide for your needs and the needs of your family, you then look at what is left over. This left over amount is what you take 10% of to pay your tithing.

This is also how mission presidents are instructed to pay tithing - only on their surplus.

We have a lot of poverty- stricken members in our ward. I try to help relieve that burden by explaining how the scriptures teach about tithing. Then when they find out that the GAs receive a nice salary, these members will not have withheld food from their families in order to sustain those salaries/stipends/allowances.



Now see, here again, tithing, this also is not how we been taught here in the East. we are always taught to pay it on the gross amount before paying anything else, it must come out first, and the lord will take care of the rest. so many different teachings for the very same principle. guess the way it is enforced in our minds is by asking if we want the before or after blessings. guilting us into more money? and still even the after taxes it is to be paid before anything else. makes living very difficult at times, and then only to find out that the GA's get a healthy sum of that very money what we struggle so hard to try and pay after being taught our entire lives that they do not get money. the church released today that they do receive a living expense. could you share with me the scriptures that tithing is to be paid from our surplus.

butterfly
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby butterfly » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:21 pm

JandD6572 wrote:
butterfly wrote:
JandD6572 wrote:guess my concern with church money is something that I read today that the general authorities receive what is called a "cost of living" expense? of over 100 thousand a year?? apparently this is no secret with the western Mormons?? because this is new to me, also, is really bothering considering always being taught that they are not paid, so can someone share some light on this new (to me) information?? I never knew they received a pay check.


It was really disturbing for me when I first found out, too. Our family had sacrificed a lot in order to pay our 10% tithing on gross regularly.

Then I learned about how the scriptures teach that tithing is paid on your surplus only- meaning after you provide for your needs and the needs of your family, you then look at what is left over. This left over amount is what you take 10% of to pay your tithing.

This is also how mission presidents are instructed to pay tithing - only on their surplus.

We have a lot of poverty- stricken members in our ward. I try to help relieve that burden by explaining how the scriptures teach about tithing. Then when they find out that the GAs receive a nice salary, these members will not have withheld food from their families in order to sustain those salaries/stipends/allowances.



Now see, here again, tithing, this also is not how we been taught here in the East. we are always taught to pay it on the gross amount before paying anything else, it must come out first, and the lord will take care of the rest. so many different teachings for the very same principle. guess the way it is enforced in our minds is by asking if we want the before or after blessings. guilting us into more money? and still even the after taxes it is to be paid before anything else. makes living very difficult at times, and then only to find out that the GA's get a healthy sum of that very money what we struggle so hard to try and pay after being taught our entire lives that they do not get money. the church released today that they do receive a living expense. could you share with me the scriptures that tithing is to be paid from our surplus.



I totally understand where you're coming from.
There are lots of threads on the forum that discuss how to calculate tithing. This is a good one that explains the view of paying on your surplus.
Everyone has an opinion, of course. Ultimately, pray about it and do as the spirit directs.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40759&hilit=paying+tithing#p666693

Analyzing
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Re: Former church member launches ‘Mormon Wikileaks’

Postby Analyzing » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:31 pm

skmo wrote:My first problem with an organization like this is clear: It almost certainly does not start with a desire to find pure fact, but rather someone's "truth" they wish others to share. It's very existence will serve as a tool that says "The LDS Church is hiding something and I'm going to find it."

That kind of an attitude can, I say CAN be motivated by a pure desire to ensure not one cent is ever misplaced of the Widow's Mite. In that same vein, political candidates CAN be honest in their campaign promises. Only a fool believes either will ever come to fruition. No one involved in this WANTS to make sure the LDS Church is shown to be fair and honest. If that happens, they don't succeed (and thereby get fame and/or fortune) by finding proper actions. They only look good by making sure other people look bad.

My second problem is this: Since they are specifically looking for something bad, they're going to find it. If it doesn't exist, someone will make sure to create what is needed. If you look for something long enough, you find it, even if it didn't previously exist. It's kind of the opposite of a placebo effect.
I came to peace with the subject long ago. However, If I were to mention this subject in Sunday School or Priesthood meeting I would be excoriated.

Regardless, intent of those releasing information does not negate the subject. To believe that someone is at a mature enough spiritual level to accept that some people will end up in outer darkness for eternity yet it will be disrupting to spiritual progression to talk candidly about the financial benefits of the GA's is insulting.
I believe confusion and frustration among faithful members of the church is the problem.
JandD6572 wrote:guess my concern with church money is something that I read today that the general authorities receive what is called a "cost of living" expense? of over 100 thousand a year?? apparently this is no secret with the western Mormons?? because this is new to me, also, is really bothering considering always being taught that they are not paid, so can someone share some light on this new (to me) information?? I never knew they received a pay check.


The Presidency and GA's of the Church set the standards for how members are to conduct themselves. Honest and forthright is how members are instructed to conduct their lives and affairs. Definition of forthright: a : directly forward b : without hesitation. Synonyms for forthright
adj straightforward, honest,
categorical, sincere, outspoken. candid. plainspoken, blunt, aboveboard, bald, direct, directly, forward, frank, open, plain, real, simple, straight, up front, call a spade a spade, from the hip, like it is, no lie, undisguised.

Jesus: The Perfect Leader
By President Spencer W. Kimball

Because Jesus loved his followers, he was able to level with them, to be candid and forthright with them.
“Line upon Line, Precept upon Precept” (2Nephi 28:30)
By Elder David A. Bednar Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Sister Bednar and I have learned much as we visit with the youth of the Church. You are eager and anxious to learn the doctrines of the restored gospel. You want direct and forthright answers to your gospel questions. And you have earnest desires to appropriately apply correct principles in your daily lives.

Without Guile
Joseph B. Wirthlin Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

...If we are without guile, we are honest, true, and righteous. All of these are attributes of Deity and are required of the Saints. Those who are honest are fair and truthful in their speech, straightforward in their dealings, free of deceit, and above stealing, misrepresentation, or any other fraudulent action. Honesty is of God and dishonesty of the devil; the devil was a liar from the beginning. Righteousness is living a life that is in harmony with the laws, principles, and ordinances of the gospel....I believe the necessity for the members of the Church to be without guile may be more urgent now than at other times because many in the world apparently do not understand the importance of this virtue or are indifferent to it. We see and hear reports of fraud and deception in all levels of our society. A few citizens of some nations betray their country by exchanging sensitive information for money, information they have stolen or with which they have been entrusted. The entertainment industry seems to have lost, in large measure, the concept of moral values. Employees falsify expense accounts. These few examples of guile illustrate how pervasive it is.

Of far greater concern than the outward acts of guile are the inner feelings and the attitudes that motivate them. Fraud and deception appear to be increasingly acceptable; the only wrongdoing seems to be in being caught. The objective often is to get gain or to profit, regardless of the injury, loss, or damage to others. This attitude is totally contrary to the principles of the gospel. It hinders or thwarts the spiritual progress of anyone afflicted by it. The practice of guile prevents the Holy Ghost from prompting, guiding, and instructing us, leaving us ever more susceptible to the buffetings of Satan. When we break the commandments, we close ourselves to God’s influence and open ourselves to Satan’s influence.

If we practice guile in small matters, we soon can find ourselves entangled in an ever-increasing, unending spiral, because each lie or other deception often requires a larger one to cover the first. Moreover, the practice of guile often leads to hypocrisy, which is the false pretense of virtue or righteousness and pretending to be something that we are not. If we know what is right and profess to live by that knowledge but, in fact, do not, we are hypocrites. The Savior denounced hypocrites in unmistakable language. He declared:

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of … all uncleanness.

“Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity” (Matt. 23:27–28).

To the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord revealed: “Wo unto them that are deceivers and hypocrites, for, thus saith the Lord, I will bring them to judgment. …

“[They] shall be detected and shall be cut off, … and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world” (D&C 50:6,

What are the Latter-day Saints to do? The answer is plain. The Saints are to be absolutely without guile in every aspect of their lives: in their homes and families, Church callings, all business dealings, and, especially, the private and personal parts of their lives into which only they and the Lord see.

I suggest that we look into our hearts and see whether our motives and actions are pure and above reproach and to see whether we are free of deceit and fraud. Perhaps we can ask ourselves a few questions.

Are we totally free of guile in our conversations and associations with our spouses and children so they always know what to expect and always have unquestioning trust and confidence in us?

Are we forthright in our interviews with our bishops and other priesthood leaders?

Are we true to ourselves, our classmates, and our teachers in our schoolwork, even if a little cheating might improve our grades?

Do we do more work than our employers expect or require, and are we always alert for ways to do our work better?

Do we pay our employees fairly for their labors?

Do we file accurate tax returns?

Are we scrupulous in all business transactions to the extent that our associates always know they are being treated fairly and would feel secure if they had no contract?

Are we satisfied with our personal standards of integrity, morality, and honesty? Can we say of ourselves, as Jesus said of Nathanael, that we are without guile?
Last edited by Analyzing on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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