USA Today: 'economic devastation ahead'

[Col. Flaggcaptain of 10,000]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/sto ... 53259742/1

NEW YORK – Behind the mainstream Wall Street happy talk about more stable financial markets and an improving economy are grim warnings of tough times ahead from a small cadre of doomsayers who warn that the worst of the financial crisis is still to come.

Harry Dent, author of the new book The Great Crash Ahead, says another stock market crash is coming due to a bad ending to the global debt bubble. He has pulled back on his earlier prediction of a crash in 2012, as central banks around the world have been flooding markets with money, giving stocks an artificial short-term boost. But a crash is coming in 2013 or 2014, he warns. "This will be a repeat of 2008-09, only bigger, when it finally hits," Dent told USA TODAY.

Gerald Celente, a trend forecaster at the Trends Research Institute, says Americans should brace themselves for an "economic 9/11" due to policymakers' inability to solve the world's financial and economic woes. The coming meltdown, he predicts, will lead to growing social unrest and anti-government sentiment, a U.S. dollar with far less purchasing power and more people out of work.

Celente won't rule out another financial panic that could spark enough fear to cause a run on the nation's banks by depositors. That risk could cause the government to invoke "economic martial law" and call a "bank holiday" and close banks as it did during the Great Depression.

"We see some kind of threat of that magnitude," Celente, publisher of The Trends Journal newsletter, warned in an interview.

Robert Prechter, author of Conquer the Crash, first published in 2002 and updated in 2009, is still bearish. He says today's economy has similarities to the Great Depression and warns that 1930s-style deflation is still poised to cause financial havoc. Prechter predicts that the major U.S. stock indexes, such as the Dow Jones industrials and Standard & Poor's 500, will plunge below their bear market lows hit in March 2009 during the last financial crisis. The brief recovery will fail as it did in the 1930s, he says.

2 very different viewpoints

If he's right, stocks would lose more than half of their value. "The economic recovery has been weak, so the next downturn should generate bad news in a big way," Prechter said in an e-mail interview. "For the third time in a dozen years, the stock market is in a very bearish position."

These dire forecasts differ sharply with the brighter outlooks being espoused by the bulls, or optimists, on Wall Street. Recent stock performance and fresh readings on the economy also suggest a future that is less gloomy than the doomsayers predict.

The Dow, for instance, is in rebound mode and has climbed back to levels not seen since the early days of the financial crisis in May 2008. Tech stocks in the Nasdaq composite are trading at levels last seen in 2000. Data on auto sales, manufacturing and consumer confidence have been firming. Job creation is also on the rise. The unemployment rate dipped to 8.3% in January, its lowest level in three years.

As a result, stock market strategists such as Rod Smyth of RiverFront Investment have been raising their outlooks for 2012. Smyth raised his target range for the S&P 500 to 1250-1500. If the market hits the top of the range, stocks would have risen 10%. Similarly, Brian Belski, strategist at Oppenheimer, recently said he remains comfortable with his year-end 2012 target of 1400. That's up 2.5% from here. Bespoke Investment Group published research that shows the market, which is closing in on a new bull market high, has done well in the past once it breaks through old highs.

Bulls are betting that Europe's banking system will be stabilized, minimizing the risk of a severe credit crisis. Bulls are also encouraged by recent data from around the world that show modest growth and a pickup in economic momentum.

The causes of economic calamity

So what has the super-bears so worried?

Dent says the combination of aging Baby Boomers exiting their big spending years and a shift toward debt reduction and austerity around the world will cause the economy to suffer another severe leg down, making it more difficult for the government and Federal Reserve to avert a new meltdown. He has not always been bearish. In 1993 he wrote The Great Boom Ahead.

Celente, who as far back as 2008 has been warning of economic calamity, argues that the ballooning debt and the growing divide between the haves and have-nots has put the U.S. in a weakened state.

As a result, he says, the nation is more vulnerable to potential shocks. He worries about potential chaos caused by people all trying to yank their money out of financial markets at the same time. He also sees risk in the event there is a loss of confidence in elected leaders.

Societal unrest in the form of street protests and increased crime are possible, too, he adds. Markets could also be spooked by an oil price shock due to a military conflict between Israel and Iran, or a bad outcome to Europe's debt crisis.

Name: Gerald Celente, trend forecaster at The Trends Research Institute
"2012 is when many of the long-simmering socioeconomic and political trends that we have been forecasting and tracking will climax," Celente noted in his Top 12 Trends 2012 newsletter. In an interview he added: "When money stops flowing to the man on the street, blood starts flowing in the street."

While bulls are urging investors to get back into stocks, the doomsayers are advising a far different strategy. Dent's investment advice is simple: "Get out of the way." He recommends buying short-term U.S. Treasury bills and the U.S. dollar, which will benefit from safe-haven cash flows. He says stocks will fall sharply in value.

Celente's advice centers on survival. He says buy gold so you don't lose purchasing power when the value of the dollar plummets. He says buy a gun to protect your family against desperate people in search of food and money. He says plan a getaway to places with more stable finances and governments.

Prechter says to keep your powder dry and buy when things get really bad: "When things get really scary, as in early 2009, I get bullish."

[dlbwwcaptain of 100]

Countries like the USA will just keep printing money until it's worthless. Prepare accordingly.

[sbsioncaptain of 1,000]

USA Today is a flagship of the NWO, their propaganda is to prepare us for whatever, but, yup, America is finished, tribulations ahead are going to be horrifice, hope you are ready

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

Interesting. I was thinking about answers I had received from the Lord that hadn't happened yet on the way home from the grocery store. It was like I was being reminded of all of them. Then I see this here. Sure is making me think.

[LDSguycaptain of 100]

I just up and moved my family to Texas (work related) - better environment to raise a family than the DC metro area. So far awesome. The movers were blown away by the year supply of food storage we have & 72 hour kits. I think they did it strangely peculiar ("we are a peculiar people") but at the same time when you explain it to them they completely understand that it is vital to be prepared.

makes me feel good to know that we have our food ready. now just need to continue to add to it as we've added a baby girl recently and then work on the water supply.

pay your tithing and all will be well. you won't necessarily be rich but I believe that you'll be blessed when the economy dips and eventually fails.

[dlbwwcaptain of 100]

Interesting. I was thinking about answers I had received from the Lord that hadn't happened yet on the way home from the grocery store. It was like I was being reminded of all of them. Then I see this here. Sure is making me think.

This is such a house of cards that it's certainly obvious God is the glue. Can't seem to prepare fast enough for what surely lies ahead. And whether this is the last time or just a bad time it makes little difference IMO. Bouying up the economy with money printing as the panacea can't end well.

[tmaccaptain of 1,000]

I find it interesting how so many people take the position that since "it" (complete economic devastation) hasn't happened yet, it never will. I know so many people who believe it has already been as bad as it is ever going to get, and if we could survive from 2008 until now we don't have anything to worry about.

In my own head/heart, I just keep thinking/feeling "we ain't seen nothin' yet" . . .

[katmrcaptain of 100]

For many people the devastation is already here. I believe many more are beginning to feel it's effects and many more will soon. I was having a conversation with my sister in law today. She was just saying that very soon they probably won't be able to afford cheese anymore and possibly burger. She said things are so tight they are going to have to start cutting some of the most expensive things out of their groceries.

[sbsioncaptain of 1,000]

we'd all probably be healthier and more prepared if we switched to water instead of milk, and broccoli instead of steak?

[katmrcaptain of 100]

we'd all probably be healthier and more prepared if we switched to water instead of milk, and broccoli instead of steak?

Very true.

[dlbwwcaptain of 100]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUA1CXI ... plpp_video
This is a great video which I see too often on TV here in Canada. Certainly it portrays a different time in history.

[Zowieinkcaptain of 100]

I wonder if this debt crises is needed by the Lord to remind us of where all our stuff comes from in the first place. Not to digress, but if everybody is in a mess and the Mormons are the only ones that have order, wouldn't you want to beome a part?

Perhaps that's why Pres. Monson in a temple president seminary for new presidents asked each one what they would do if the Church's members suddenly increased a hundred or two hundred fold. He said it would happen quickly and that the Church leadership should be ready for it. I think we are in for a very, very rough time of it. We've already had a difficult 4 years since 1008. My profession has been devistated with 60 to 80 unemployment, according to the American Institute of Architects.

But waiting is driving me nuts. On with the show!

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Countries like the USA will just keep printing money until it's worthless. Prepare accordingly.

The money supply is shrinking, not expanding.

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

Countries like the USA will just keep printing money until it's worthless. Prepare accordingly.

The money supply is shrinking, not expanding.

According to who (other than Jason or one of his alter-egos)?

Even the Federal Reserve admits that the money supply is increasing. According to them the Monetary Base is increasing, and M2 is increasing. According to the Bank of International Settlements the total value of currency and credit derivatives is also increasing. The only thing I'm aware of that is decreasing right now that might be considered "money" is treasury securities.

It is true that mortgage debt is decreasing, but student loans and credit card debt are increasing... again using numbers from the Federal Reserve. And of course public debt is increasing. Actually, what's interesting is that federal debt is increasing (FAST) while state and local debts are slowly decreasing (though partially due to defaults).

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

We lost this battle, as we so often do, when we allowed Democrats and the media to characterize illegal aliens as “immigrants”. They are not, and never will be, as this email so explicitly illustrates.

“He who controls the language, controls the debate.” – Joseph Stalin


Old White People



HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT


Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; "Go back to Boston ! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. Through love of having children, we are going to take over.

Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City

Council. "They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over . . . We are here to stay."

Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico , "The American Southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot."

Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas ; "We have an aging white America . They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population . . . I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it."

Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party, "Remember 187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens--was the last gasp of white

America in California ."

Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, "We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country . . ... I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, "I'm going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back."

Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton,
"California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave."
Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General, "We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California .."

Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola

Marymount University ; "We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos . . . "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHEN I WAS YOUNG:
When I was young, I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island .. They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breathe free. They wanted to become Americans. Now too many immigrants come here with demands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand special privileges--affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify their culture.
~~~~~~~~~~~

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Countries like the USA will just keep printing money until it's worthless. Prepare accordingly.

The money supply is shrinking, not expanding.

According to who (other than Jason or one of his alter-egos)?

Even the Federal Reserve admits that the money supply is increasing. According to them the Monetary Base is increasing, and M2 is increasing. According to the Bank of International Settlements the total value of currency and credit derivatives is also increasing. The only thing I'm aware of that is decreasing right now that might be considered "money" is treasury securities.

It is true that mortgage debt is decreasing, but student loans and credit card debt are increasing... again using numbers from the Federal Reserve. And of course public debt is increasing. Actually, what's interesting is that federal debt is increasing (FAST) while state and local debts are slowly decreasing (though partially due to defaults).

According to who? A little free advice, the fed is not to be trusted in anyway. Tell me than, with all the trillions of dollars in bail-outs, all the trillions of dollars in stimulus packages, ect..ect... with all the TRILLIONS of dollars they have supposedly printed and circulated in the US economy, where is it than? Where in did it go? Where is it now? Right? Not rocket science. It never reached America's streets!

Jason and his alter-egos??? Was that called for? That was a cheap shot. Wish you would get that crap out of here. Jason is not even around to defend himself anymore thanks to folks like you who can't handle different opinions. You like kicking people when there down don't you jonesde? let it go.. And Jason did have multiple usernames but his message was always the same brother. It was no secret. One post read like another. Me thinks your the one with alter egos or multiple personalities.

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

The money supply is shrinking, not expanding.

According to who (other than Jason or one of his alter-egos)?

Even the Federal Reserve admits that the money supply is increasing. According to them the Monetary Base is increasing, and M2 is increasing. According to the Bank of International Settlements the total value of currency and credit derivatives is also increasing. The only thing I'm aware of that is decreasing right now that might be considered "money" is treasury securities.

It is true that mortgage debt is decreasing, but student loans and credit card debt are increasing... again using numbers from the Federal Reserve. And of course public debt is increasing. Actually, what's interesting is that federal debt is increasing (FAST) while state and local debts are slowly decreasing (though partially due to defaults).

According to who? A little free advice, the fed is not to be trusted in anyway. Tell me than, with all the trillions of dollars in bail-outs, all the trillions of dollars in stimulus packages, ect..ect... with all the TRILLIONS of dollars they have supposedly printed and circulated in the US economy, where is it than? Where in did it go? Where is it now? Right? Not rocket science. It never reached America's streets!

Jason and his alter-egos??? Was that called for? That was a cheap shot. Wish you would get that crap out of here. Jason is not even around to defend himself anymore thanks to folks like you who can't handle different opinions. You like kicking people when there down don't you jonesde? let it go.. And Jason did have multiple usernames but his message was always the same brother. It was no secret. One post read like another. Me thinks your the one with alter egos or multiple personalities.

Who did I kick while they were down? Who is "down" anyway?

I wrote "Jason or one of his alter-egos" because I have no idea what to call him, he being a man with many names. I didn't realize that pointing out something like that was in any way insulting... how is it an insult anyway? Perhaps I'm insensitive... so please let me know.

As for the money supply... well... I guess I don't feel like being attacked, so good luck with all that.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Right back at you jonesde. Nice move on turning the table and playing the victim.. And let me just say Jason does not have any alternate egos. I can personally say Jason doesn't have an ego. Have you ever met Jason or his family? Right. He never boast or sets himself higher than anyone else. He never talks down to people because they have a different opinion, unlike you. Jason could take all the criticism in the world, but what he could not take any longer is personal attacks and it is sad not many people noticed or came to his defense! I hope he returns because he is one of the good guys!

As for the money supply... well... you guess you don't feel like being attacked or is it you can't explain how trillions never touched the middle class? If Inflation is on it's way than that is good news for everyone in debt, and bad news for the banks. The banks are smarter than that. No way the money supply goes hyperinflation. (Not even inflating at the moment and price inflation is different conversation!) I see no reason for banks to do every deceitful thing to bring America to their knees through debt to all of a sudden inflate the money supply and basically forgive us of our debts. Isn't going to happen and is not happening. Good luck with the inflation bull.

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

I think you are being too touchy about someone mentioning that Jason went by a lot of names. He did. I like Jason and miss him. But I don't understand why he went by so many different names. It was confusing. I do wish he would come back though.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

I think you are being too touchy about someone mentioning that Jason went by a lot of names. He did. I like Jason and miss him. But I don't understand why he went by so many different names. It was confusing. I do wish he would come back though.

Thanks Nan! And you might be right. My problem is jonesde referring to Jason as alter-egos. Yes, he had many forum names, but he does not have an ego. And also that jonesde replied to my comment as if I got the idea that the money supply was shrinking from Jason because who else has said anything like that. Which is dumb imo. No reason to beat around the bush, if he had a point he should have got straight to it.

[Rensaicaptain of 100]

I think you are being too touchy about someone mentioning that Jason went by a lot of names. He did. I like Jason and miss him. But I don't understand why he went by so many different names. It was confusing. I do wish he would come back though.

Thanks Nan! And you might be right. My problem is jonesde referring to Jason as alter-egos. Yes, he had many forum names, but he does not have an ego. And also that jonesde replied to my comment as if I got the idea that the money supply was shrinking from Jason because who else has said anything like that. Which is dumb imo. No reason to beat around the bush, if he had a point he should have got straight to it.

Sounds like you're confusing alter-ego and egotistical. The word Alter-ego does not imply someone is egotistical in anyway and is an accurate description of Jason's multiple forum identities.

An alter ego (Latin, "the other I") is a second self, which is believed to be distinct from a person's normal or original personality. The term was coined in the early nineteenth century when dissociative identity disorder was first described by psychologists.[1] A person who has an alter ego is said to lead a double life.

[dlbwwcaptain of 100]

Countries like the USA will just keep printing money until it's worthless. Prepare accordingly.

The money supply is shrinking, not expanding.

From John Williams (shadowstats.com) "Year-to-Year M3 Money Supply Growth Notched Higher in June".

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

I think you are being too touchy about someone mentioning that Jason went by a lot of names. He did. I like Jason and miss him. But I don't understand why he went by so many different names. It was confusing. I do wish he would come back though.

Thanks Nan! And you might be right. My problem is jonesde referring to Jason as alter-egos. Yes, he had many forum names, but he does not have an ego. And also that jonesde replied to my comment as if I got the idea that the money supply was shrinking from Jason because who else has said anything like that. Which is dumb imo. No reason to beat around the bush, if he had a point he should have got straight to it.

Sounds like you're confusing alter-ego and egotistical. The word Alter-ego does not imply someone is egotistical in anyway and is an accurate description of Jason's multiple forum identities.

An alter ego (Latin, "the other I") is a second self, which is believed to be distinct from a person's normal or original personality. The term was coined in the early nineteenth century when dissociative identity disorder was first described by psychologists.[1] A person who has an alter ego is said to lead a double life.

Thanks Rensai! I knew that was coming from a mile away! I was just waiting for it. And I don't think I was confusing alter-ego and egotistical. I just see it differently than you and others. Agree to disagree. You think it was an accurate description, I do not.

An alter ego (Latin, "the other I") is a second self, which is believed to be distinct from a person's normal or original personality.

Yes, Jason had many user names, but like I said, it was always the same message and the same personality. He never deviated from his normal or original personality. Never was it distinct from his original behavior or have a double personality. Double usernames yes, double personalities no. And if anyone asked him if he was "Jason" (which wasn't hard since he always had the same personality) he told the truth and didn't hide it. Yes, he tried to start over with a fresh start, maybe it would have worked if he had multiple personalities. But he doesn't. His skin is thin and people saw right through him because he was always the same guy with the same personality. His message was always the same. Though I believe his multiple usernames went right over most peoples head.

Maybe I am a little sensitive over the whole thing. Maybe I am a little defensive when I shouldn't be. Maybe I am still ticked off how it all went down at the end with Jason AKA Baron, Jerry Fletcher, Mummy, Legion, ect... Either way I have been on the receiving end of jonesde stick and attacks before as has Jason.

FWIW thanks for the link you provided me in another thread. (Dinosaurs) Man, have I come across some great stuff on there. Funny thing is I had it bookmarked a long time ago while browsing around but never got back to it. Thanks again as it has helped me in my search for understanding and truth of past events!

[Thomascaptain of 1,000]

The true money supply is unknown, even by the Federal Reserve. Many foreign central banks hold frns, as a reserve, to back their own currency. Many trillions are sitting in bank vaults around the world. The fact that there are not being distributed to the common people dosen't really mean much.

The move away from the dollar could cause a flood of dollars throughout the world, rendering them close to worthless. This trend is already starting. China and Saudia Arb ia have already brokered a deal to bypass the dollar. Japan, Russia and others have as well. As these deals become solidified, countries will start to dump their dollars. Some countries already have started to replace dollars with gold.

The dollar is a international currency that has been used for trade between countries. There are more dollars outside the US, then inside the US. Some tourist have reported that some retailers, in foreign countries, will no longer accept dollars.

The money supply is low in the US because all the dollars are in China and Saudia Arabia

Price inflation is an indication of the dollar's value. We have an international economy, with most consumer goods being supplied by foreign countries. The increase in these prices is an indication of their willingness to accept dollars, for their goods.

We will be the last to know when the dollar dies. It will be a wave that hits our shores last.

I know Jason has compared today's situation with that of the great depression but I disagree with that assesement. Dollars were not spread all over the world at that time.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

Just on the subject of alter egos, I do not find it a derogatory term, and also find it accurate for Jason's multiple user names. In comic books, most if not all super heroes have an alter ego, their "secret identity". I agree with you Semp, that in regards to Jason/Mummy he maintained the same perona across different user names. But after he was threatened by someone on the forums, he most certainly did try to disguise himself with some of his later users, even though his undedrlying message was the same, he definitely did change up his writing styles and "tone" to try to hide who it was. He even had three or more users posting at the same time. That certainly qualified for "alter ego" it is pretty much textbook example of it. Not that I think it was a bad thing, and I understand why he did it. But certainly nothing for you to take exception to.

As far as the inflation vs inflation debate, althought Jason convinced me of deflation in the short term, I always maintained (and I think Jason agreed with me) that in the long term, hyperinflation was likely, even unavoidable. I think we still have a LOT of deflation to get through, but eventually all that money that you say "never hit the streets" WILL hit the streets. Right now most of that money is sitting in very wealthy individuals accounts. When deflation truly kicks in (we haven't seen anything yet in my opinion) then that money will be spent to buy up the United States at pennies on the dollar. Right now TPTB are obtaining real assets thru foreclosure during this bust cycle. Once they have dislodged as many as they can through foreclosure, I expect there will be another boom cycle during which homes and other property will be bought up, of course the average dumb person will wait until it is too late, the smart insiders will buy when the prices are down. So there will be a suckers rally, people will start buying and speculating on real estate again. And eventually, the dollar will end where every worthless fiat currency ends, massive over printing and hyperinflation. that may still be many years out though. But I repeat all this money that even you admit has been created but hasn;t hit the real economy - it will. Just like all the trillions of inflation that we exported to other countries due to the petro dollar. When that happens, we will wish for the days of deflation.

As far as your contention that hyperinflation leads to essentially debt forgiveness - you still have to get your hands on the money. If true inflation is at 300% each year, and you only see 100% wage inflation, most people will still be using all of their income TO SURVIVE. Most will not be paying off mortgage with inflated dollars because it will all be being used for necessities. And you might say "People won;t work under those conditions, where they effectiviely are getting huge cuts in their salary." I say the last few years have proved otherwise. And with high unemployment (which could skyrocket if, say, most welfare and social security programs are ended) if you won't work for it, there is someone who will. Does any of this sound familiar? The boom and bust will continue, and those on the inside will be raking it in hand over fist in both cases, while the majority of people will be bearing the burden, just like TARP on a grand scale.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Hey Thomas! I am not Jason. The reason I believe the money supply is actually shrinking is because money is created from bank loans, and lending has shrunk dramatically. We create the money. That money did not exist before we ‘borrowed’ it, or created it, Banks are not lending to us small folks at the moment. I don't see it anyway.

In a Washington Times article titled "Banks Still Standing Amid Credit Rubble," Patrice Hill wrote:

"Before last fall's financial crisis, banks provided only $8 trillion of the roughly $25 trillion in loans outstanding in the United States, while traditional bond markets provided another $7 trillion, according to the Federal Reserve. The largest share of the borrowed funds -- $10 trillion -- came from securitized loan markets that barely existed two decades ago. . . . Many legislators in Congress complain that banks aren't lending, and cite that as an excuse to vote against further bank bailout funds. . . . But Mr. Regalia [chief economist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce] said these critics are wrong. 'Banks are lending more, but 70 percent of the system isn't there anymore,' he said."

[jcricket6048captain of 100]

"When money stops flowing to the man on the street, blood starts flowing in the street."

does this sound familiar? The prophecy from Wilford Woodruff about blood flowing down the streets of SLC?

[AGStackercaptain of 100]

The reason I believe the money supply is actually shrinking is because money is created from bank loans, and lending has shrunk dramatically. We create the money. That money did not exist before we ‘borrowed’ it, or created it, Banks are not lending to us small folks at the moment. I don't see it anyway.

In a Washington Times article titled "Banks Still Standing Amid Credit Rubble," Patrice Hill wrote:

"Before last fall's financial crisis, banks provided only $8 trillion of the roughly $25 trillion in loans outstanding in the United States, while traditional bond markets provided another $7 trillion, according to the Federal Reserve. The largest share of the borrowed funds -- $10 trillion -- came from securitized loan markets that barely existed two decades ago. . . . Many legislators in Congress complain that banks aren't lending, and cite that as an excuse to vote against further bank bailout funds. . . . But Mr. Regalia [chief economist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce] said these critics are wrong. 'Banks are lending more, but 70 percent of the system isn't there anymore,' he said."

Harbinger, the banks are sitting on 1.5 trillion dollars of reserves that the Federal Reserve is paying them interest on. When the Federal Reserve stops paying them interest on the reserves they will be forced to lend it. (banks are making no money right now besides what the Fed is paying them) When this money is lent out it wont be 1.5 trillion but 15 trillion. 15 trillion new dollars chasing the same amount of goods.

By the way, M2 IS growing!

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/gc%201.png

http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/bloomber_goldcore_chart2_13-10-11.png

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

"When money stops flowing to the man on the street, blood starts flowing in the street."

does this sound familiar? The prophecy from Wilford Woodruff about blood flowing down the streets of SLC?

Now that is one heck of a quote jcricket! I think Wilford Woodruff was dead on!

[AGStackercaptain of 100]

Another thing you don't realize Harbinger is that although the Federal Reserve is evil (immoral) it DOES NOT force governments to spend money. It is the same with temptation. Satan (Federal Reserve) tempts us (unlimited amount of loans through money printing) and we (or in this case politicians) ultimate decide whether we choose right or wrong.

The politicians will in NO WAY cut spending and their only way to keep spending is by borrowing money from the Federal Reserve. Their simply is not enough courage or moral ability from these politicians to cut welfare and militarism.

For example: WSJ: Fed Buying 61 Percent of US Debt

"The Federal Reserve is propping up the entire U.S. economy by buying 61 percent of the government debt issued by the Treasury Department, a trend that cannot last, Lawrence Goodman, a former Treasury official and current president of the Center for Financial Stability, writes in a Wall Street Journal opinion article published Wednesday.

"Last year the Fed purchased a stunning 61 percent of the total net Treasury issuance, up from negligible amounts prior to the 2008 financial crisis," Goodman writes."

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/fed-debt-Treasury/2012/03/28/id/434106

The purchase of this debt is simply money printing.