Glenn Beck: National Inflation Assoc. of America: get ready

[Col. Flagg]

Anybody catch Glenn's show late last week where he reported that a non-profit organization called the National Inflation Association said that within 12 months, food prices/commodities are going to rise anywhere from 700-1,000%? For example, they are forecasting a loaf of bread to cost $23.05. With the Fed's latest round of criminal paper printing and pumping (QE2) to the tune of $600 BILLION, in addition to the TRILLIONS they've printed up out of thin air since 2008 to bail-out their cohort banks and Wall Street, it's easy to see where this is all headed. To put that $600 BILLION into perspective... there is only $800 BILLION in U.S. dollars circulating world wide. And to make Mummy happy, I think deflation begins to take a stranglehold in other areas, like real estate - asset values are going to plummet while prices for basic staples rise dramatically and catastrophically for many people. This firm is predicting by this time next year, 1/3 of the country will not be able to afford food. Is there a possibility that we could have hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously? That's what it's looking like. Talk about your double-whammies.

[Jason]

Anybody catch Glenn's show late last week where he reported that a non-profit organization called the National Inflation Association said that within 12 months, food prices/commodities are going to rise anywhere from 700-1,000%? For example, they are forecasting a loaf of bread to cost $23.05. With the Fed's latest round of criminal paper printing and pumping (QE2) to the tune of $600 BILLION, in addition to the TRILLIONS they've printed up out of thin air since 2008 to bail-out their cohort banks and Wall Street, it's easy to see where this is all headed. To put that $600 BILLION into perspective... there is only $800 BILLION in U.S. dollars circulating world wide.

I'm so sick of hearing about the NIA and their hyperinflation....posted this on another thread today....but its pertinent here -

NIA President: Beware of Massive Food Inflation (courtesy of Fox Business News)
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4416855/ ... t_id=87185

....let's dive into the NIA for a moment since they are getting all this Prime Time AND Alternative media coverage (very interesting isn't it)...the 2nd video has a clip from an older episode of Fox Business News (obviously times have changed)....



warning....ends on very poor vernacular (f-bomb)

And to make Mummy happy, I think deflation begins to take a stranglehold in other areas, like real estate - asset values are going to plummet while prices for basic staples rise dramatically and catastrophically for many people. This firm is predicting by this time next year, 1/3 of the country will not be able to afford food. Is there a possibility that we could have hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously? That's what it's looking like. Talk about your double-whammies.

Home prices are already plummeting - down 5% in the past 3 months nationally (with double digit drops in high impact areas)....and that's with falling interest rates (which lower the total purchase cost of a home).

I'm looking at the market here in SLC pretty closely right now and I've seen some properties drop $150k in the past 3 months (July list for $459k to October list for $299k).

[Col. Flagg]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

[ndjili]

I do know that Gerald Celente said in the next few years the prices of food and other necessities will rise dramatically and the holidays will be more about getting food than presents. Sad thing he said this a couple years ago.

[Jason]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

Impossible in the same context. There's either more money or less money circulating....you can't have both!

Now what money is available may flow to certain assets over others - from home loan payments (debt service) to food. And the corresponding supply/demand of those items is thus subject to change and upset.....not to mention judgments of God.

So far the vast majority of the stimulus has been either stretched out over years or simply an asset trade....thus not corresponding to any REAL increase to the money in circulation. There is so much gaming (artificial stimulation) and bad numbers (info/data) that its difficult to tell at times what's going on.

My number one measurement though is new money (credit growth/contraction)....everything else just muddies the waters. To each their own though!

[Col. Flagg]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

Impossible in the same context. There's either more money or less money circulating....you can't have both!!

I have to respectfully disagree - I think both are possible at the same time because we've got massive asset bubbles all over the place being propped up by phony funny money from the 'Fed' while at the same time, massive money printing is going on at the 'Fed', which de-values each dollar already in circulation. I can easily see home prices and commercial real estate crashing in 2011 while prices for food and commodities skyrocket - I don't think it's a far-fetched scenario, especially given the extreme complexities that exist right now in our markets and economy. Given the fact that the 'Fed' has already printed up TRILLIONS since 2008 to rescue their cohort banks and crooks on Wall Street, not to mention dumping hundreds of BILLIONS into the economy, we should have already seen massive inflation, but we haven't - that alone defies basic market principles, but just goes to show how manipulated everything is.

[Original_Intent]

I have been raising a warning voice about inflation.us, George4Title, and Jonathon Lebed for a long time. Geroge4Title AKA George Hemminger I ahve mixed feelings on - he either is misguided and a good guy who just got mixed up with the wrong crowd OR he is an extremely good "Bill Clinton" type salesman. Anyone that watches Lebed for five minutes and is not convinced he is "Darth Maul" evil incarnate - either not awake or privy to spiritual insights that are denied to me.

The guy scares me, and is someone who I truly believe would sell his mother for the right price.

edit: I will say they have some good educational material. The "Meltup" movie and others - just do not under ANY circumstances give these guys any personal info and I would ocnsider any money that you send them or follow their investing advice as a "gift". i.e. expect to be taken to the cleaners.

[Jason]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

Impossible in the same context. There's either more money or less money circulating....you can't have both!!

I have to respectfully disagree Cool! - I think both are possible at the same time because we've got massive asset bubbles all over the place being propped up by phony funny money from the 'Fed' as opposed to some other type of money circulating?while at the same time, massive money printing is going on at the 'Fed', Is that "massive" money printing being injected into the economy or simply traded for bank assets (IOUs)? Or other IOUs like treasuries?which de-values each dollar already in circulation. I can easily see home prices and commercial real estate crashing in 2011 while prices for food and commodities skyrocket - I don't think it's a far-fetched scenario, especially given the extreme complexities that exist right now in our markets and economy. I can see that happening too....but the root cause is far more than a currency issue - fraud, embezzlement, acts of God, etc. Given the fact that the 'Fed' has already printed up TRILLIONS since 2008, we should have already seen massive inflation, but we haven't why? I mean come on.....TRILLIONS....yet no hyper-inflation, or even inflation??? What gives? Was the money truly printed up? If so did it really enter the economy? Or was it just a transfer of 1's and 0's from the private banking cartel (The Fed) to individual banks to shore up balance sheets and transfer IOUs?- that alone defies basic market principles, but just goes to show has manipulated everything is.

Indeed highly manipulated.....and quite fascinating that anyone who touts hyperinflation is given mainstream media coverage....even a fraudulent hole-in-the-wall outfit out of New Jersey like the NIA.....and not only mainstream media but most of the alternative media sources?????

[Col. Flagg]

I have to respectfully disagree Cool! - I think both are possible at the same time because we've got massive asset bubbles all over the place being propped up by phony funny money from the 'Fed' as opposed to some other type of money circulating?while at the same time, massive money printing is going on at the 'Fed', Is that "massive" money printing being injected into the economy or simply traded for bank assets (IOUs)? Or other IOUs like treasuries?which de-values each dollar already in circulation. I can easily see home prices and commercial real estate crashing in 2011 while prices for food and commodities skyrocket - I don't think it's a far-fetched scenario, especially given the extreme complexities that exist right now in our markets and economy. I can see that happening too....but the root cause is far more than a currency issue - fraud, embezzlement, acts of God, etc. Given the fact that the 'Fed' has already printed up TRILLIONS since 2008, we should have already seen massive inflation, but we haven't why? I mean come on.....TRILLIONS....yet no hyper-inflation, or even inflation??? What gives? Was the money truly printed up? If so did it really enter the economy? Or was it just a transfer of 1's and 0's from the private banking cartel (The Fed) to individual banks to shore up balance sheets and transfer IOUs?- that alone defies basic market principles, but just goes to show has manipulated everything is.

Indeed highly manipulated.....and quite fascinating that anyone who touts hyperinflation is given mainstream media coverage....even a fraudulent hole-in-the-wall outfit out of New Jersey like the NIA.....and not only mainstream media but most of the alternative media sources?????

Good points Mummy, especially RE the fact that most, if not all of the money the 'Fed' has conjured up went to these zombie banks to shore up their balance sheets, but here's what has me convinced we're going to see hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously. Which scenario would the 'Fed', big banks and Washington prefer... inflation or deflation? Obviously inflation since that would help relieve the pressure of debt/junk on the books of the 'Fed' and Washington while resulting in higher prices for consumers and the #1 goal of these LDG's is the destruction of the middle class. If we also have deflation with real estate and commercial real estate, that allows/affords these big zombie banks and the 'Fed' to swoop in and scoop up properties/homes for pennies on the dollar as middle America goes way underwater and can no longer use their homes as ATM machines to subsidize their spending or to help pay bills/debts, resulting in the further destruction of the middle class. The 'Fed' will do everything in its power to prevent and stop 100% deflation and considering its omnipotence and power as the sole monetary policy authority, I just can't see them allowing their cohort banks and Wall Street to suffer massive depreciating asset prices. If natural market forces were allowed to take over, then I'd be 100% behind the deflation scenario, but that is not what will be allowed to occur and has not been allowed to occur since the system collapsed in 2008.

[Jason]

I have to respectfully disagree Cool! - I think both are possible at the same time because we've got massive asset bubbles all over the place being propped up by phony funny money from the 'Fed' as opposed to some other type of money circulating?while at the same time, massive money printing is going on at the 'Fed', Is that "massive" money printing being injected into the economy or simply traded for bank assets (IOUs)? Or other IOUs like treasuries?which de-values each dollar already in circulation. I can easily see home prices and commercial real estate crashing in 2011 while prices for food and commodities skyrocket - I don't think it's a far-fetched scenario, especially given the extreme complexities that exist right now in our markets and economy. I can see that happening too....but the root cause is far more than a currency issue - fraud, embezzlement, acts of God, etc. Given the fact that the 'Fed' has already printed up TRILLIONS since 2008, we should have already seen massive inflation, but we haven't why? I mean come on.....TRILLIONS....yet no hyper-inflation, or even inflation??? What gives? Was the money truly printed up? If so did it really enter the economy? Or was it just a transfer of 1's and 0's from the private banking cartel (The Fed) to individual banks to shore up balance sheets and transfer IOUs?- that alone defies basic market principles, but just goes to show has manipulated everything is.

Indeed highly manipulated.....and quite fascinating that anyone who touts hyperinflation is given mainstream media coverage....even a fraudulent hole-in-the-wall outfit out of New Jersey like the NIA.....and not only mainstream media but most of the alternative media sources?????

Good points Mummy, especially RE the fact that most, if not all of the money the 'Fed' has conjured up went to these zombie banks to shore up their balance sheets, but here's what has me convinced we're going to see hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously. Which scenario would the 'Fed', big banks and Washington prefer... inflation or deflation? Obviously inflation since that would help relieve the pressure of debt/junk on the books of the 'Fed' and Washington while resulting in higher prices for consumers and the #1 goal of these LDG's is the destruction of the middle class. If we also have deflation with real estate and commercial real estate, that allows/affords these big zombie banks and the 'Fed' to swoop in and scoop up properties/homes for pennies on the dollar as middle America can no longer use their homes as ATM machines, resulting in the further destruction of the middle class.

Ahh but what you describe is deflation.....with manipulation of the futures market (commodities - rising input prices) while demand collapses due to deflation. For example the Saudi's had to kill 1/3 of their production to keep the price of oil up (and that's with manipulation of futures - google: offshore storage or US strategic reserve filled) because REAL demand is collapsing because we are in a deflationary spiral (demand is less than production). Real inflation or hyperinflation would be the injection of money (usually via debt) that drives demand up thus outstripping production and causing increase in prices.

So what we have is a REAL deflationary spiral with attempts at creating an inflationary facade in commodities - food, metals, oil, etc.

Of course there is one other aspect which is collapse of the government or system in which case money is just paper - the inherent backing of which (government) is gone. This would destroy the bankers and the power elite....yet the gold/silver crowd are heavily focused on this aspect. Sooner or later it will happen....but there is a timing gap in the middle where we have no idea how crazy its gonna get and the gloves will come off at one point or another.

[Col. Flagg]

From my previous post above:

The 'Fed' will do everything in its power to prevent and stop 100% deflation and considering its omnipotence and power as the sole monetary policy authority, I just can't see them allowing their cohort banks and Wall Street to suffer massive depreciating asset prices. If natural market forces were allowed to take over, then I'd be 100% behind the deflation scenario, but that is not what will be allowed to occur and has not been allowed to occur since the system collapsed in 2008.

Mummy, do you agree or disagree with this?

[Original_Intent]

Col - don't get price inflation/deflation confused with monetary inflation or deflation.

I think we are experiencing monetary inflation, but that created money is not entering circulation. It exists, but not at the M3 level. It jsut exists in bank accounts - for now.

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

[Jason]

From my previous post above:

The 'Fed' will do everything in its power to prevent and stop 100% deflation and considering its omnipotence and power as the sole monetary policy authority, I just can't see them allowing their cohort banks and Wall Street to suffer massive depreciating asset prices. If natural market forces were allowed to take over, then I'd be 100% behind the deflation scenario, but that is not what will be allowed to occur and has not been allowed to occur since the system collapsed in 2008.

Mummy, do you agree or disagree with this?

More or less.....deflation is an excellent tool for them by driving the transfer of control or ownership of assets (Fed now tied with China for ownership of US Treasuries - who paid more for them?). It also gives the printing press more power (everyone clamoring for their dollars). It also destroys all the bank's balance sheets.....and they can pick and choose who lives and who dies. Which helps drive a general consolidation of the industry and the corresponding ownership of the IOUs for all of the assets.

So I agree with you that its not 100% across the market....basically the big 4 banks have been bailed out by the Fed taking the crappy assets on to their balance sheet thus leaving the banks with 95 to 100% balance sheets.

But the Fed is basically just a corporation with a number of individual banks as shareholders.....and ultimately when one works back its just a few people who own/control the whole shebang through a number of front organizations (buried within each other - circles within circles). A shift back and forth between left hand and right hand.

In terms of real impact on us (the people) or our pocketbooks its a combination of deflation (in assets) and inflation (in daily needs)....the big squeeze. But we've been slaves for a long time now....just going to the next and final step! The only escape is via our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.....and the judgments of God!

With that in mind the best preparedness steps are the ones the prophets have been preaching about for over a century now - get/stay out of debt, food storage, a little cash (savings) for a rainy day....I would add to that (after those things are done): helping family members and friends achieve those previously mentioned items (your support group/network - unless you plan on conquering the world alone), a means of food production (though you may not be able to hang on to it), production tools (everything from mechanics tools to woodworking to sewing to energy production...which might also have retention issues), protective/defensive means/weapons, and lastly I'd go with a storage of some actual gold/silver/etc.....after all the previous steps have been accomplished. Survival 1st....luxuries 2nd!

[Jason]

Col - don't get price inflation/deflation confused with monetary inflation or deflation.

I think we are experiencing monetary inflation, but that created money is not entering circulation. It exists, but not at the M3 level. It jsut exists in bank accounts - for now.

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

Amen! Although the "printed" money is just 1's & 0's that could enter the economy or might not....depends on the controllers (masters) wishes....either way they own us. Go to extremes and the people will riot....so they have to keep the majority in check until they can figure out a way to wipe them all out. So no matter what happens....I doubt we'll see extremes on either side - inflation or deflation.

[Col. Flagg]

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

This is all I am trying to emphasize and point out.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

Man, Satan sure knew where to attack this nation and the world didn't he? Start with greed and then throw in a little power and control and voila!

[NoGreaterLove]

I'm looking at the market here in SLC pretty closely right now and I've seen some properties drop $150k in the past 3 months (July list for $459k to October list for $299k)

Our housing market still remains over inflated verses the average income in Utah. If you look at other markets real material value for real material value, taking out the market value, you will see that Arizona, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri etc. prices are way lower than ours. We still consider our land, bricks, wood and concrete worth more than they do.
I will be happy to see the housing market in Utah to fall back to what the house is really worth instead of this inflated bubble we rode a few years ago.

[Jason]

I'm looking at the market here in SLC pretty closely right now and I've seen some properties drop $150k in the past 3 months (July list for $459k to October list for $299k)

Our housing market still remains over inflated verses the average income in Utah. If you look at other markets real material value for real material value, taking out the market value, you will see that Arizona, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri etc. prices are way lower than ours. We still consider our land, bricks, wood and concrete worth more than they do.
I will be happy to see the housing market in Utah to fall back to what the house is really worth instead of this inflated bubble we rode a few years ago.

We were late to the game going up....and we're a bit behind going down. That said, prices are dropping rapidly. I'm seeing 10 to 30 percent price drops since mid-July (last 4 months)....that's huge! Across the nation the average was 5% drop in the last 3 months....which is still huge!

Factor in the drop in interest rates (which lowers the debt component & the monthly payment) and the drop is even bigger!

As you state though....we have a ways to go! And job losses and wage cuts only compound the problem...

[Col. Flagg]

I'm looking at the market here in SLC pretty closely right now and I've seen some properties drop $150k in the past 3 months (July list for $459k to October list for $299k)

Our housing market still remains over inflated verses the average income in Utah. If you look at other markets real material value for real material value, taking out the market value, you will see that Arizona, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri etc. prices are way lower than ours. We still consider our land, bricks, wood and concrete worth more than they do.
I will be happy to see the housing market in Utah to fall back to what the house is really worth instead of this inflated bubble we rode a few years ago.

It's only a matter of time - back in 1980, my parents purchased their current home for $75,000 (garage, 6 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, finished basement, 1/3 acre). 30 years later it is appraising for $375,000 (Orem, UT). That's a 400% mark-up or $10,000/yr. ($833/mo.) increase in price for 30 years! Home prices will come back down to earth soon in Utah and when they do, look out. The rate of increase in home prices since 2002 was one of the most absurd and ridiulous things I have ever seen and what's worse is how many people had no problem applying for a loan for a $300,000 house that wasn't worth more than $100,000.

[Original_Intent]

Col - don't get price inflation/deflation confused with monetary inflation or deflation.

I think we are experiencing monetary inflation, but that created money is not entering circulation. It exists, but not at the M3 level. It jsut exists in bank accounts - for now.

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

Amen! Although the "printed" money is just 1's & 0's that could enter the economy or might not....depends on the controllers (masters) wishes....either way they own us. Go to extremes and the people will riot....so they have to keep the majority in check until they can figure out a way to wipe them all out. So no matter what happens....I doubt we'll see extremes on either side - inflation or deflation.

I agree! The inflation/deflation debate I have decided is largely meaningless - BOTH could easily be employed (and have been) and the power is derived from the foreknowledge of which it is going to be. Like you have said, place your bets!

One bet I would place is to fight for the 2nd amendment to the death! I am sure there is much gnashing of teeth that we can actually defend ourselves against tyranny to a limited degree - that is the ONLY thing keeping them in check at this point.

[Jason]

Col - don't get price inflation/deflation confused with monetary inflation or deflation.

I think we are experiencing monetary inflation, but that created money is not entering circulation. It exists, but not at the M3 level. It jsut exists in bank accounts - for now.

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

Amen! Although the "printed" money is just 1's & 0's that could enter the economy or might not....depends on the controllers (masters) wishes....either way they own us. Go to extremes and the people will riot....so they have to keep the majority in check until they can figure out a way to wipe them all out. So no matter what happens....I doubt we'll see extremes on either side - inflation or deflation.

I agree! The inflation/deflation debate I have decided is largely meaningless - BOTH could easily be employed (and have been) and the power is derived from the foreknowledge of which it is going to be. Like you have said, place your bets!

One bet I would place is to fight for the 2nd amendment to the death! I am sure there is much gnashing of teeth that we can actually defend ourselves against tyranny to a limited degree - that is the ONLY thing keeping them in check at this point.

Amen!

They are playing a wicked game.....reminds me of the movie Instinct (back when R meant really good) where Anthony Hopkins (prisoner) turns the table on Cuba Gooding Jr. (psychologist) demonstrating that power and control can be but an illusion.

They think they are smart....but they are messing with God. Its an easy guess who's going to win that battle. Adversary doesn't care though....he just wants to get his licks in while he has the opportunity....make everyone miserable like himself.

[MercynGrace]

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of economics but I do know what I've been paying for things and the direction those prices have been going.

For a while, prices were changing routinely a few cents higher or a few cents lower. Just the frequent movement is enough to make me pause because for a long time, prices at my local grocery stores were extremely stable. The volatility is relatively new (within the last year or so).

In the last 10-15 days however, my milk went from 2.99 to 3.14. My 5 dozen carton of eggs went from 6.86 to just over $8. My dry pancake mix went from 1.32 a box 1.47. And my favorite vice (diet soda) went up from 1.25 a bottle to 1.48.

Even more odd, I went to the store last week to get ingredients for my son's favorite dinner and the shelves were bare (of the items I was seeking - non-staples - but not uncommon items that used to fill maybe a 15 foot section of the aisle). I asked a clerk "Is this all there is?" He said yes.

This morning I stopped by another neighborhood store which has been undergoing remodel. It was evident after perusing the aisles for just a few minutes that the remodel was an effort, at least in part, to hide bare shelves. Half the canned goods I bought had no stock behind them - IOW, I took a can off the shelf and there were no more behind it. Where before there were say 10 cans of spaghetti sauce in a horizontal line that was 10 to 12 cans deep, today, the line was two cans wide and 1 can deep. It was surreal.

[pjbrownie]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

Impossible in the same context. There's either more money or less money circulating....you can't have both!

Now what money is available may flow to certain assets over others - from home loan payments (debt service) to food. And the corresponding supply/demand of those items is thus subject to change and upset.....not to mention judgments of God.

So far the vast majority of the stimulus has been either stretched out over years or simply an asset trade....thus not corresponding to any REAL increase to the money in circulation. There is so much gaming (artificial stimulation) and bad numbers (info/data) that its difficult to tell at times what's going on.

My number one measurement though is new money (credit growth/contraction)....everything else just muddies the waters. To each their own though!

I also tend to disagree. I was with you on deflation - to a point. The metrics of how to measure inflation are less important than the psychological impact of increasing prices--especially on commodities like food and fuel, which aren't in the CPI. Whether we all go Weimer is moot. The only difference between deflationary Mad Max and hyperinflationary Mad Max is wheelbarrows of paper. A $100 ear of corn compared to a worthless automobile or television set feels inflationary even if it is deflationary.

[pjbrownie]

I have to respectfully disagree Cool! - I think both are possible at the same time because we've got massive asset bubbles all over the place being propped up by phony funny money from the 'Fed' as opposed to some other type of money circulating?while at the same time, massive money printing is going on at the 'Fed', Is that "massive" money printing being injected into the economy or simply traded for bank assets (IOUs)? Or other IOUs like treasuries?which de-values each dollar already in circulation. I can easily see home prices and commercial real estate crashing in 2011 while prices for food and commodities skyrocket - I don't think it's a far-fetched scenario, especially given the extreme complexities that exist right now in our markets and economy. I can see that happening too....but the root cause is far more than a currency issue - fraud, embezzlement, acts of God, etc. Given the fact that the 'Fed' has already printed up TRILLIONS since 2008, we should have already seen massive inflation, but we haven't why? I mean come on.....TRILLIONS....yet no hyper-inflation, or even inflation??? What gives? Was the money truly printed up? If so did it really enter the economy? Or was it just a transfer of 1's and 0's from the private banking cartel (The Fed) to individual banks to shore up balance sheets and transfer IOUs?- that alone defies basic market principles, but just goes to show has manipulated everything is.

Indeed highly manipulated.....and quite fascinating that anyone who touts hyperinflation is given mainstream media coverage....even a fraudulent hole-in-the-wall outfit out of New Jersey like the NIA.....and not only mainstream media but most of the alternative media sources?????

Good points Mummy, especially RE the fact that most, if not all of the money the 'Fed' has conjured up went to these zombie banks to shore up their balance sheets, but here's what has me convinced we're going to see hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously. Which scenario would the 'Fed', big banks and Washington prefer... inflation or deflation? Obviously inflation since that would help relieve the pressure of debt/junk on the books of the 'Fed' and Washington while resulting in higher prices for consumers and the #1 goal of these LDG's is the destruction of the middle class. If we also have deflation with real estate and commercial real estate, that allows/affords these big zombie banks and the 'Fed' to swoop in and scoop up properties/homes for pennies on the dollar as middle America goes way underwater and can no longer use their homes as ATM machines to subsidize their spending or to help pay bills/debts, resulting in the further destruction of the middle class. The 'Fed' will do everything in its power to prevent and stop 100% deflation and considering its omnipotence and power as the sole monetary policy authority, I just can't see them allowing their cohort banks and Wall Street to suffer massive depreciating asset prices. If natural market forces were allowed to take over, then I'd be 100% behind the deflation scenario, but that is not what will be allowed to occur and has not been allowed to occur since the system collapsed in 2008.

Col, trying to understand what the FED (or Goldman Sachs) prefers is futile. They win in either scenario. They have historically claimed to want to fight inflation, but under inflation, they get massive dividends on investments on the variable bubble, and under deflation, they get bailed out or they scoop up foreclosed and undervalued assets. I'm not convinced they care so much about inflation--what they care about is making more money when the economy is hot, thus they raise the interest rates.

[pjbrownie]

Col - don't get price inflation/deflation confused with monetary inflation or deflation.

I think we are experiencing monetary inflation, but that created money is not entering circulation. It exists, but not at the M3 level. It jsut exists in bank accounts - for now.

We are experiencing price inflation of most consumer goods.

We are experiencing price deflation of real estate and "capital" goods.

What a perfect storm - the price of everything we need to live goes up - no money for mortgage etc due to debt trap and flat wages and rising unemployment. This accelerates price drops of RE ESPECIALLY when the banks open up the floodgates on all the foreclosures they are sitting on....ini the meanwhile "certain" bank accounts are growing by trillions of dollars...The banks will hold the coreclosed property until the vast majority have zero liquidity to buy and credit requirements are impossible for 99% of people to meet - then they sell everything they are sitting on, the "chosen" trade their worthless money for real estate, now we have hyperinflation, all of that dammed (damned?) money enters the economy in one fell swoop, prices on everything skyrockets, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs own virtually everything....they control how much of anything gets produced, which means they control the price which means they control YOU - power of life and death, all due to being able to create money from nothing.

OI, M3 doesn't exist anymore--lol--haven't you heard. They don't report it anymore. M3 is a powerful hammer that can drop at any moment. It could be used as a threat.

[Jason]

Mummy - what do you say to the hyper-inflation and deflation simultaneously scenario?

Impossible in the same context. There's either more money or less money circulating....you can't have both!

Now what money is available may flow to certain assets over others - from home loan payments (debt service) to food. And the corresponding supply/demand of those items is thus subject to change and upset.....not to mention judgments of God.

So far the vast majority of the stimulus has been either stretched out over years or simply an asset trade....thus not corresponding to any REAL increase to the money in circulation. There is so much gaming (artificial stimulation) and bad numbers (info/data) that its difficult to tell at times what's going on.

My number one measurement though is new money (credit growth/contraction)....everything else just muddies the waters. To each their own though!

I also tend to disagree. I was with you on deflation - to a point. The metrics of how to measure inflation are less important than the psychological impact of increasing prices--especially on commodities like food and fuel, which aren't in the CPI. Whether we all go Weimer is moot. The only difference between deflationary Mad Max and hyperinflationary Mad Max is wheelbarrows of paper. A $100 ear of corn compared to a worthless automobile or television set feels inflationary even if it is deflationary.

Ahh...but if demand is collapsing....its only a temporary phenomenon. Must look at the macro long term perspective. The same could be said about oil and gas prices.....but demand is collapsing and storage is full to the brim.....and production is being cut. That isn't hyperinflationary.....just temporary steps in an attempt to keep deflation at bay!