AZ immigration bill

[believer]

Gov. of Arizona just signs immigration bill giving police authority to arrest illegal aliens.

[believer]

Arizona Governor Signs Controversial Immigration Bill

FOXNews.com

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed a controversial bill that seeks to crack down on illegal immigration.


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Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed a controversial bill that seeks to crack down on illegal immigration.

The sweeping measure will make it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. It will also require local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are in the country illegally.

Earlier, President Obama called the bill "misguided" and said it could violate people's civil rights.The bill's Republican sponsor, state Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, said Obama and other critics of the bill were "against law enforcement, our citizens and the rule of law."

[Like]

Maybe the application of the law might look something like this:

Truck driver forced to show birth certificate

(Hey maybe they can get Obama to show his )

PHOENIX – A Valley man says he was pulled over Wednesday morning and questioned when he arrived at a weigh station for his commercial vehicle along Val Vista and the 202 freeway.

Abdon, who did not want to use his last name, says he provided several key pieces of information but what he provided apparently was not what was needed.

He tells 3TV, “I don't think it's correct, if I have to take my birth certificate with me all the time.”

3TV caught up with Abdon after he was released from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in central Phoenix. He and his wife, Jackie, are still upset about what happened to him.

Jackie tells 3TV, “It's still something awful to be targeted. I can't even imagine what he felt, people watching like he was some type of criminal.”

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. He provided his commercial driver’s license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.

An agent called his wife and she had to leave work to drive home and grab other documents like his birth certificate.

Jackie explains, “I have his social security card as well and mine. He's legit. It's the first time it's ever happened.”

Both were born in the United States and say they are now both infuriated that keeping important documents safely at home is no longer an option.

Jackie says, “It doesn't feel like it's a good way of life, to live with fear, even though we are okay, we are legal…still have to carry documents around.”

A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.

The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone's birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.

[lundbaek]

The legal beagles are going to have a field day with this new law.

[Like]

The legal beagles are going to have a field day with this new law.

For sure. They have to pay for those law degrees and maybe a few of them can jump start a new political career at the same time.

[lundbaek]

To understand the illegal immigration and amnesty issues in depth, I believe it is necessary to understand the bigger picture. We are being assaulted not only by mass immigration of people who place tremendous burdens on our society and public services, but also by the global warming hoax, the terrorism hoax carried out by false flag Ops and media hype, undeclared wars that hurt our economy, and other actions that are leading to the destruction of the American economy and culture.

I have concluded that the purpose of this destruction is to make Americans more willing to accept a socialist or fascist dictatorship to replace what is left of our constitutional republic. All this is intended by people who have been and are still the puppetmasters of recent US Presidents and many in Congress, to eventually enable them to make this country subject to a single world government.

[Like]

To understand the illegal immigration and amnesty issues in depth, I believe it is necessary to understand the bigger picture. We are being assaulted not only by mass immigration of people who place tremendous burdens on our society and public services, but also by the global warming hoax, the terrorism hoax carried out by false flag Ops and media hype, undeclared wars that hurt our economy, and other actions that are leading to the destruction of the American economy and culture.

I have concluded that the purpose of this destruction is to make Americans more willing to accept a socialist or fascist dictatorship to replace what is left of our constitutional republic. All this is intended by people who have been and are still the puppetmasters of recent US Presidents and many in Congress, to eventually enable them to make this country subject to a single world government.

I agree with that. It makes me sick. There is so much evil it this fallen world. (vomit)

[lundbaek]

From an acquaintance who works in the AZ Capitol:
"I haven't had any discussions with any of the senators yet, but it sounds to me like Obama is rumbling about trying to stop it. And I was told by someone in my Ward tonight that Janet Napolitano said in an interview today, "Oh, Governor Brewer signed the bill ...? Oh, that's too bad -- now we won't be able to give Arizona any federal funding." I hope that's true because it would save a lot of time and effort if they would just cut us off altogether. We want to get out from under the feds, and this would do it!! I hope it's true! So, to answer your question, "What do I expect?" I guess I won't be surprised if Obama tries to stop us -- either through cutting off federal funding or something else. I'm sure it won't take him long to try to bully us back into submission."

[believer]

This in the NY Times:

Published Saturday April 24, 2010

Arizona immigration law signed
The New York Times
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PHOENIX -- Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed the toughest illegal immigration law in the country, aimed at identifying, prosecuting and deporting illegal immigrants. The governor’s move on Friday unleashed immediate protests and reignited the divisive national battle over federal immigration reform.

Even before Brewer signed the bill, President Barack Obama strongly criticized it.

Speaking at a naturalization ceremony for 24 active-duty service members in the Rose Garden, Obama called for a federal overhaul of immigration laws an overhaul congressional leaders signaled they might take up.

He said the failure of federal officials to act on immigration would open the door to “irresponsibility by others.” He said the Arizona bill threatened “to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.”

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The law, which both opponents and critics called the broadest and strictest immigration measure in the country, makes the failure to carry proof of citizenship or legal immigration status a crime. It also gives police broad powers to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. Opponents have decried it as an open invitation for harassment and discrimination against Hispanics, regardless of their citizenship status.

The political debate leading up to Brewer’s decision, and the president’s criticism of the bill underscored the power of the immigration debate. It presaged the polarizing arguments that await Obama and Congress.

Brewer said the law “represents another tool for our state to use as we work to solve a crisis we did not create and the federal government has refused to fix.”

The law takes effect in August. Court challenges are expected.

Hispanics railed against the law as a recipe for racial and ethnic profiling. The Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles called the authorities’ ability to demand documents Nazism.

While police demands of documents are common on subways, highways and in public places in some countries, including France, Arizona is the first state to demand that immigrants meet federal requirements to carry identity documents legitimizing their presence on American soil.

Brewer acknowledged critics’ concerns but, in the end, sided with the bill’s sponsors.

President George W. Bush had attempted comprehensive federal immigration reform but failed when his own party split on the issue. This time, Republicans facing primary challenges from the right, including Brewer and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., have come under tremendous pressure to support the Arizona law.

McCain, locked in a competitive primary with a challenger campaigning on immigration, only came out in support of the law hours before the State Senate passed it Monday.

The law, sponsored by state Sen. Russell Pierce, an immigration firebrand, requires the police “when practicable” to detain people they reasonably suspect are in the country without authorization and verify their status with federal officials, unless doing so would hinder an investigation or emergency medical treatment.

It also makes it a state crime, a misdemeanor, to fail to carry proof of immigration status. It also allows people to sue local governments or agencies if they fail to enforce immigration law.

Last year, there were a record number of state immigration-related laws enacted (222) and resolutions (131) passed, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

The prospect of a national immigration debate this year is gaining steam on Capitol Hill. Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., the majority leader, said he intends to bring legislation to the floor after Memorial Day.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., has been meeting with lawmakers and interest groups to draft a measure with Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

But the outlook is mixed. While an immigration debate could help energize Hispanic voters and provide political benefits to some embattled Democrats seeking re-election in November including Reid it also could energize conservative voters.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has said in recent days that the House would be willing to take up immigration policy only if the Senate produces a bill first; otherwise they are not inclined to move ahead.

[believer]

I heard on KSL news last night that Utah might do the same thing, or something similar.


Believer

[Nan]

To understand the illegal immigration and amnesty issues in depth, I believe it is necessary to understand the bigger picture. We are being assaulted not only by mass immigration of people who place tremendous burdens on our society and public services, but also by the global warming hoax, the terrorism hoax carried out by false flag Ops and media hype, undeclared wars that hurt our economy, and other actions that are leading to the destruction of the American economy and culture.

I have concluded that the purpose of this destruction is to make Americans more willing to accept a socialist or fascist dictatorship to replace what is left of our constitutional republic. All this is intended by people who have been and are still the puppetmasters of recent US Presidents and many in Congress, to eventually enable them to make this country subject to a single world government.

The drain they are financially with our services is huge. I bet if you could get the money numbers of how much goes to them we would have a whole different feeling about illegal immigration here in the US. Especially if you let the people who do use our services legally know they are being cut because of them. Now that could start some riots.

[NoGreaterLove]

Go an sit in the emergency room in AZ, especially Maricopa County and see how many you are paying for with your tax dollars. Take a ride with a cop for one day and see how many calls he gets that involves illegals. Sit in a classroom in certain areas of Arizona and count how many illegals are sitting in chairs who can not speak English and need money spent to educate them. Go to the drug busts and find out how the drugs got there, who brought them over the border. Visit a few accidents and see what happens to the victims financially when the one who hit them is illegal and has no drivers license and insurance. Until you have personally experienced the reality you can not appreciate it.

[liberty_belle]

Until you have personally experienced the reality you can not appreciate it.

I too live in AZ and support this Bill. I am very glad that Brewer signed it and then reinforced the position that racial profiling will not be tolerated and that obeying the law on both sides is required.

I have a dil from Dominican Republic. We have gone through and are still going through the immigration process. We had to fill out papers, pay lots of money and go through the interviews to get her here. We are now in the process of getting her Change of Residency which is another $1000.00. For our neighbors to jump fences and then march down our streets in protest yelling about their civil "rights" is a slap in all of our faces. Their signs sometimes read, "Today we march, tomorrow we vote!" is very telling as to why the laws on immigration are not being enforced by our Federal Government. Russell Peirce has gone through a lot of work to make sure this Bill was Constitutional....but in these days, that does not mean a whole lot does it? I can't imagine going into another country and marching in their streets demanding rights when I have not taken an oath to support, sustain and abide by the laws of the land.

We have heard all over the radio and protesters about the children of these illegals and how they will suffer....well, I am sorry for them that their parents broke the law and now they are suffering. That is no different than when a child has drug addicts for parents and are required to suffer because the law had to arrest them. The parents should have thought about the long term consequences of them coming here illegally.

Another part of this that is amazing to me is when I have heard about some illegals who have been here 20-30 years and will now be forced back to their homeland...What? are you kidding me....they have been here this long and have never done anything to make themselves legal?????? That right there goes to show you that they have no respect for law and therefore should not be trusted.

[SmallFarm]

I just don't like this law because it will give more power to the police to harrass whomever they want. All they have to say is "Well I thought he was an illegal." And if you don't have your goverment issued papers? Guess what yer goin to jail.

[NoGreaterLove]

I just don't like this law because it will give more power to the police to harrass whomever they want. All they have to say is "Well I thought he was an illegal." And if you don't have your goverment issued papers? Guess what yer goin to jail.

Small Farm
I completely understand why the general public, especially Hispanics would be concerned. But it is because they are not educated on what "reasonable suspicion" is. An officer by law can not apprehend and detain a person without reasonable suspicion. I am not saying we do not have cops who think they are above the law and who willingly break this.
Under this law legal citizen status can not be inquired about unless the officer has reasonable suspicion to think that person is an illegal.
They go through an extensive amount of training about what is reasonable suspicion and what is not. That training includes case law and usually they use an attorney to teach the class.
Arizona uses this definition when training officers.
"Reasonable suspicion means that any reasonable person would suspect that a crime was in the process of being committed, had been committed or was going to be committed very soon."
So what will happen is they will train what types of things to look for and what types of things constitute reasonable suspicion. A lot of cases will go to court and will be appealed to a higher court. The appeals court will then make decisions on whether the grounds for the inquiry were reasonable suspicion. As each case goes to the appeals process, the training for the officers will be adjusted to reflect the case law.
With this being such a hot issue, a lot of training will be given and it will be watched closely by those in authority at all stages of the process. From the field sergeant to the lieutenant to the county attorney and the judges. So the cases will be scrutinized with a fine tooth comb.
There are a lot of minorities working as police officers, county attorneys and judges. I can assure you they are against racial discrimination and would not tolerate it.

[NoGreaterLove]

Code: Select all

Russell Peirce has gone through a lot of work to make sure this Bill was Constitutional

I have worked along side of him. He is a great guy. Very level headed, has good common sense and does not take any guff off of people.

[InfoWarrior82]

So what will happen is they will train what types of things to look for and what types of things constitute reasonable suspicion. .

I wonder- what, specifically, will they be looking for?

[SmallFarm]

I'm sorry but I have no reason to trust any cops' " reasonable suspicion" Any of them can lie and make up a story that a judge will later believe because it comes from a cop. Just like how they can now go "hey I smell marijuana in your car" and use that as justification to search your car. It doesn't matter if you've never smoked pot in your life, the judge will still believe a cop's lies instead of your asverage citizen.

[NoGreaterLove]

Color of skin and race will be a no-no. It will have to be other indicators. If there are not the right type of indicators, the prosecuting attorney will not file charges. If it went to court and the jury thought race or color of skin was the indicator the officer used, it would never fly. Just one minority on the jury and that would be all it takes for a not guilty.
It is not like the officer is the only one making a decision here. The decision of the officer will be under constant scrutiny. Especially with this type of issue. Law enforcement and the judicial branch know this is a hot issue and is being watched all over the world.
For instance. Lets say I were a cop and I stopped any race of individual. If that individual was driving a car not registered to him, he could not speak English and he had no drivers license, a reasonable person would have suspicion that he might be illegal. So at that time I as an office would be allowed to ask him if he is illegal, require him to produce valid identification, probably to include his social security number and then run it through the system to see if he is a citizen.
Now what if I stopped someone of color. This person has a valid drivers license and speaks English? If I had other indicators, such as is he transporting a bunch of others in the vehicle with him who have no identification and do not speak English. or the area the stop was being made. Is this a border town on a road that is know for illegals? Then I might have something.
Arizona has almost 1/2 million illegals living there. There are bound to be protests. There are 1/2 million people in Arizona right now worried about their future. !/2 million worrying about getting caught for breaking the law. 1/2 million thinking what situation have I put my family in by breaking the law? What price are they going to pay?
If they would have made the decision to do it legally in the first place, they would not be in this situation.

[SmallFarm]

Here's the clincher.... I have to get a government issued ID.... TO AVOID ARREST... and that is what puts ants in my pants

[NoGreaterLove]

Code: Select all

Any of them can lie

Small farm.

You are absolutely right. Anyone can lie. It happens. Criminals lie all the time. Sometimes cops do. That is why it is so important to have a good process in place to weed out those cops who lie and never hire the ones who are a criminal at heart.
But that does not mean people who break the law should just be allowed to break it. That does not mean cops should not be able to enforce the law, just because there are bad ones out there. Our entire society should not be punished just because we have some bad cops.

[SmallFarm]

I don't believe we can ever weed out the bad ones. The nature of the job attracts those types.

[SmallFarm]

BTW I'd like to state that the racial profiling thing is a red herring so people will talk about that instead of the reall issue (IMO anyway), goverment enforced ID. The next step from here is a national enforced ID.

[NoGreaterLove]

I have to get a government issued ID

You have to register your IP address, create a sign on name and create a password to write on this forum. These things happen.
You have to present identification to get a checking account. You have to present id to get a loan. The resources exist to track every place you have ever visited, every thing you have ever purchased, everything you have ever typed on the internet. Big brother, evil people and marketing groups are watching you bro.
It is the world we live in. I dont like it either. But I bigger fish to fry than worrying about giving a cop my proper id.

[SmallFarm]

I don't look to the goverment to protect me.