Two Witness in Jerusalem

[Joppa]

I just wondered what your idea's were for the two witnesses that are supposed to be in Jerusalem preaching for 3 and a half years. Do you guys have any interesting quotes about it. I've been trying to find out more information on them, but only have found quotes from The Pratt brothers, and Bruce R McConkie. Just wondering if you guys have any other quotes. Also if you don't or do have other quotes, what is your opinion of them. Are they alive? Are they currently in the quorum of the twelve? I'd just like to here your thoughts.

[ldsfireguy]

I can quote my bishop ... ... he believes that one of the two is probably Elder Bednar. Actually, he is a very spiritual person with a lot of very neat experiences.

I personally do believe that the two prophets are alive, and that they are or will be most likely members of the quorum of the twelve.

[Lamoni'sBFF]

I think they will be two Jews that the Lord raises up from his people. The scriptures and revelations say that we will be building the New Jerusalem in America and separated from the rest of the world. Unless we send two brethren over there and they stay around for a while, I don't think they will be LDS.

[pjbrownie]

Is there something wrong with McConkie or Orson Pratt on this? I believe they will be Apostles. I think its probably 20 to 25 years away, so I don't think they're in the quorum right now.

[NoGreaterLove]

They will be members of the church. It is only by the power of the Priesthood that they will control the elements.

[NoGreaterLove]

We should remember that Enoch, John and the three nephites are Jewish Prophets who still remain in translated condition. Could it be them?

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod; and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple, leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles; and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven, saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand; and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

[ryanjenny1997]

I agree with pj brownie on 20 plus years. From my research Armageddon will happen est. around 2040 AD. Much to happen in between great for the Israel righteous, very painful for the wicked. we must pray for them also.

[NoGreaterLove]

Zechariah 4

8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11 ¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

[Joppa]

I'm not saying anything is wrong with Orson Pratt and McConkie, I was just wondering if there was other quotes from other General Authorities.

[ldsfireguy]

I think its probably 20 to 25 years away, so I don't think they're in the quorum right now.

I agree with pj brownie on 20 plus years.

I'm curious what leads you to pick the 20 to 25 year figure?

Thanks.

Scott

[pjbrownie]

Well it's an educated guess. The big mystery is when the end of the sixth seal it, because despite what some may say about it already happening, it is signified by a massive worldwide earthquake with the sun darkening and the moon "turning to blood," a major worldwide war, and a cleansing of Israel. When that happens, it is anyone's guess, but some have thought 2012 (based on the Mayan calendar, or the BOM time frame). The trick is to watch the signs.

Once you have this happen, you have a period of quiet for about 20.5 years, followed by a seven-year tribulation, and a one-year mopping up time frame according to scripture. Given 2012, that would put us about 2040.

[NoGreaterLove]

What I have always considered is, the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Christ came to the the Old World first and then 33 years later, came to the New World. So if he comes to the New World first and then appears to the Old World 33 Years later, it would mean we have a long time before He appears in Jerusalem.

[ldsfireguy]

@@@@

[Cowboy]

The big mystery is when the end of the sixth seal it, because despite what some may say about it already happening, it is signified by a massive worldwide earthquake with the sun darkening and the moon "turning to blood,"

We are in the seventh seal.
The prophesy about the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood has already been fulfilled. Don't wait on that one

Also pointing out Orson Pratt's comments as previously mentioned, it won't happen until after Jerusalem is rebuilt by the Jews

We might bring up, also, the declaration of John in relation to the two witnesses who are to prophecy about that period. They are to prophecy three and a half years, and their field of labor will be Jerusalem, after it shall have been rebuilt by the Jews. By means of their prophecies and the power of God attending them, the nations who are gathered together against Jerusalem will be kept at bay, these Prophets will hold them in check by their faith and power. By and by these nations overcome the two witnesses and, having finished their mission, they are slain, and their bodies will lie three days and a half in the streets of the city. Then a great earthquake will take place, and these two witnesses will be caught up to heaven.

[Kurt]

Well it's an educated guess. The big mystery is when the end of the sixth seal it, because despite what some may say about it already happening, it is signified by a massive worldwide earthquake with the sun darkening and the moon "turning to blood," a major worldwide war, and a cleansing of Israel. When that happens, it is anyone's guess, but some have thought 2012 (based on the Mayan calendar, or the BOM time frame). The trick is to watch the signs.

Once you have this happen, you have a period of quiet for about 20.5 years, followed by a seven-year tribulation, and a one-year mopping up time frame according to scripture. Given 2012, that would put us about 2040.

I like your educated guess. I still find it interesting that the moon has already turned to blood as others have stated on this thread? I guess I personally missed it before it turned back into cheese again .....(Although I admit I don't always look at the moon every night.) I don't think the worldwide earthquake has happened yet though, unless I missed that one too.

[Lamoni'sBFF]

Remember that we can't take everything 100% literally in the Bible, especially the book of Revelation. Most scholars (LDS and non) see that statement as symbolic rather than literal.

[shadow]

I still find it interesting that the moon has already turned to blood as others have stated on this thread?

Have you ever been down wind of a major fire at night?? The moon will look red, even blood red at times.

[HeirofNumenor]

Remember that we can't take everything 100% literally in the Bible, especially the book of Revelation. Most scholars (LDS and non) see that statement as symbolic rather than literal.

Regarding the moon turning to blood, I would state they meant the appearance of blood, not the actual transubstantiation.

And I have never found a LDS scholar who thought this appearance of blood was only symbol, not a literal appearance.

[buffalo_girl]

The era in which we live is the fulness of times spoken of in the scriptures, when God has brought together all of the elements of previous dispensations...The vision of Joel has been fulfilled wherein he declared:

“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

“And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

“And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call” (Joel 2:28–32).

Living in the Fulness of Times

President Gordon B. Hinckley
October 2001

[NoGreaterLove]

The era in which we live is the fulness of times spoken of in the scriptures, when God has brought together all of the elements of previous dispensations...The vision of Joel has been fulfilled wherein he declared:

My personal feeling is that he was directing his remarks towards what I highlighted in bold and just read the entire prophecy rather than separating it into parts.

If you read his remarks previous to this statement, you will see he was focusing on a certain part of the prophecy.

Of course this is just my opinion and I may be wrong, but I sure do not remember the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood.

[NoGreaterLove]

I want to take a better look at what he said:

(this is what he said leading up to that statement)

The era in which we live is the fulness of times spoken of in the scriptures, when God has brought together all of the elements of previous dispensations. From the day that He and His Beloved Son manifested themselves to the boy Joseph, there has been a tremendous cascade of enlightenment poured out upon the world. The hearts of men have turned to their fathers in fulfillment of the words of Malachi. The vision of Joel has been fulfilled wherein he declared:


(then he says)

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

"And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

"And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call" (Joel 2:28–32).

I am not so sure he wasn't just reading the verses in their entirety, rather than breaking it down into sections to get his point across.

The red has definitely not been fulfilled, so he was not saying all of this prophecy had been fulfilled.

[eric]

okay - I got sucked into this one.

Normally I do not speculate or throw unsubstantiated stuff into the foray, but I have been looking for years for the quote from Marion G. Romney (around 1980) that said that the two prophets were alive and in the world and that they had recently received their ordinations into the Aaronic Priesthood. I was intrigued because that put them around my age (born in 1966-1968). I have scoured (online) the Ensigns of 1980 and have not found that quote. I know I read it - because it really piqued my curiosity and the distinct thought that they were my age.

My best guess also goes with Bednar. I have had that feeling for some time now. I also vote for 2026-2040 for the 'FINAL SCENE'.

Love to hear more on this topic - anyone?

[HeirofNumenor]

“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

So as with the other post regarding this talk, how do you suppose this has been fulfilled symbolically, and if literally, how and when?

[HeirofNumenor]

I believe he was referring the part about:

“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

“And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

[NoGreaterLove]

My personal feelings are that we will be building the New Jerusalem within the next 4-6 years. Sometime during the construction of Zion or just before, AOA occurs and the 144000 are sent out to gather the 12 tribes to Zion for their temple sealings. I think the 1/2 hour of silence is the time when the angels are to withhold their hand so the 144000 can assist in bring those who will come to the temple to be sealed in their foreheads with the blessings of God. Once they are sealed, then the great events of Jerusalem unfold.