What we might expect in the next 25 years - W. Cleon Skousen

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

I used to say that I am one of the saints saying that the Lord delayeth his coming. Then I read the scripture and it acctually says The saints will say the Lord delayeth his coming until the end of the world. Or until everything is destroyed. I don't feel like we are at the end. I feel like there is a lot more to accomplish. We need to get the gospel into every nation before we can even call the missionaries back home. Do I feel that these could happen quickly? yes I do. President Monson specifically asked us to please pray for the nations of the world whose doors are closed to our missionaries would open them. We are praying for that at our house.

[rockycaptain of 10]

We don't necessarily have to be in every nation before we call the missionaries home. We only have to preach to the gentile nation which are all the nations that are christian nations. We are already at that point. When the gentile nation finally start rejecting the missionaries then they will be called home. After that there will be a cleansing of the Gentile nations and the collaspe of the United States. We then we will go build the New Jerusalem and then there will be the mission to the Jews. After the preaching of the Jews, missionary work will go the the Heathen nations. Christ will appear several times. There is still lots to be done before he comes. But I think what is coming up really soon is the collapse of the United States. This has to happen before we go build the New Jerusalem.

[firendcaptain of 1,000]

well said rocky!

[NoGreaterLovecaptain of 1,000]

Rocky
I think you got it right!

[Watchdogcaptain of 10]

According to Skousen, what those of us in the U.S.A. need to look for next is a major plague or scourge. Thus weakening us enough to make an invasion from Latin America feasible.

This has given me a great deal of concern as it should all members of this community. We focus tremendous energy on having the right weapons (I'm as guilty of this as anyone else) when we should also be thinking about how to defend our families from an unknown biological threat. I encourage anyone with expertise in this area to open a new thread and educate us, muy rapido!

I have to give Skousen credit as a prognosticator. I remember when my friend, who was on a mission, sent me one of his talk tapes. I think it was called "Building the Temple at Jerusalem" from about 1978. At one point in the talk Skousen says: "Write it in your Journals, any of you! We're going into Russia with the Gospel of Jesus Christ". (I'm paraphasing but SIC)
I thought this was a remarkably bold statement, because at the time I was listening to the tape, I was patrolling the Berlin Wall in my Army Jeep! But, nothing is impossible for the Lord. I now personally know several returned missionarys who served in the area of the former Soviet Union.

I sure miss W. Cleon Skousen. Who can fill his shoes now?

[LukeAir2008captain of 1,000]

We don't necessarily have to be in every nation before we call the missionaries home.

Thats right. The missionaries are called home after the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. So when the Lord feels that the nations of so called Christendom have been sufficiently warned the missionaries are called home and the gospel message is then taken to the House of Israel.
Pres. Packer said last year that the United States and Europe are no longer christian nations. I think what he was referring to was the amount of success the missionaries are having in those countries. That could be an indication of where we are. And as Pres. Packer also warned of an imminent catastrophe, probably the financial collapse, then the misionaries could be home sooner than we think.
The mission to the Heathen nations comes after Christ's appearance in Jerusalem.
And then there is one final warning to the whole earth from the 144,000 right before the Lords second coming in glory.

[NoGreaterLovecaptain of 1,000]

LukeAir2008
I am curious where you heard Pres Packer speak last Sunday? Where did the imminent catastrophe remarks come from?
Luke AFB? used to live 3 miles west of there.

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

I live near the border with Mexico. If the Mexican government falls, and the cartels take over completely, we will be over run by Mexicans fleeing. And our border doesn't hold them back now. Most people have no idea how bad it is down here. There are kidnappings and crap everyday in Arizona. I have several friends and my parents who have illegals crossing their property now. It could get really ugly down here.

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

Nobody says they overlap but John the Revelator mentions events (sealing of the 144,000) which take place during both the 6th and 7th seals - so we can deduce that this must be around the year 2000 - an event which takes place during the end of the sixth thousand years and over into the seventh thousand years.

Cleon Skousen's idea makes perfect sense. They were prepared in the spirit world at the end of the 6th seal to then be born and carry out their great missionary service at the beginning of the seventh seal. Or maybe they were born at the end of the sixth seal. My son was born in 1984 - the Sixth Seal. He will depart for his mission in the next few months - 2009 - the Seventh Seal.

Consider a different possibility:

The 144,000 are high priests AND their wives who are called NOT to preach the gospel, but to physically lead the remaining righteous and decent people out of the corrupt nations to safety in Zion before those nations get thrashed by both the Beasts/Anti-Christ, and the plagues and disasters mentions in Revelations and other scriptures.

I don't think it will be anyone's young sons and daughters doing this mission (or preaching in Jerusalem, either -- sorry to dash hopes).

I'll have to find my all sources, but I believe Dr Skousen, Dr. Kimber, and Elder Rector explained it to me and my family in Feb 2000. I think I have some other citations as well (sorting my papers in the garage).

[pjbrowniecaptain of 1,000]

I used to say that I am one of the saints saying that the Lord delayeth his coming. Then I read the scripture and it acctually says The saints will say the Lord delayeth his coming until the end of the world. Or until everything is destroyed. I don't feel like we are at the end. I feel like there is a lot more to accomplish. We need to get the gospel into every nation before we can even call the missionaries back home. Do I feel that these could happen quickly? yes I do. President Monson specifically asked us to please pray for the nations of the world whose doors are closed to our missionaries would open them. We are praying for that at our house.

We only have to send the missionaries into every nation before the Second Coming, not before the cleansing and tribulation periods mentioned in scripture, IMO. I could be wrong. I just don't know if I agree with the assessment that there must be black tags on the ground in every political nation prior to the end of the Times of the Gentiles or before we have any tribulation, earthquakes, and wars.

[pjbrowniecaptain of 1,000]

As I've stated before, where do the Muslim nations fit into all of this? They aren't the House of Israel, but they are close. They're also part of Gog's army at Armageddon. Are they part of the heathen mission?

[Oldemandaltoncaptain of 1,000]

I love Cleon Skousen and his writings. Especially his “Treasures of the BofM“, “The Thousand Year” series, and “The Naked Capitalist/Communist”. I was lucky enough to take his B of M class while attending BYU years ago. We used the “Treasures of the Book of mormon” and still have the first editions he wrote.

I have read his article “What we might Expect in the Next Twenty-Five Years” and see how he could come to many of his conclusions. Here are my comments

1.Many of the 144k have already been called; “I attended prayer-meeting with the quorum in the assembly room, and made some remarks respecting the hundred and forty-four thousand mentioned by John the Revelator, showing that the selection of persons to form that number had already commenced.” (HC, J SMITH 6:196) This selection of the 144,000 may even be complete.

2.John Pratt theorizes that, since the Savior was born IN and not AT “the meridian of time”, the 5th seal could have began anywhere from 33-70 AD. No one knows for sure. http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds ... a_cal.html

3.[Thinking out lowed] Could the events of Rev 6:13-17 have already occurred? I tend to think not, but you never know, we could be wrong. John speaks of several events occurring when the 6th seal was opened; A great earth quake, sun going dark, moon turning to blood, stars falling, ‘the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together’ (?), mountains and islands moving, and everyone hiding from God’s wrath. Someone with more time should do research to see if there was a short period of time during the beginning of the 2nd century when there were earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, an eclipse, and meteor showers, all at the same time. I found a few things but nothing to indicate that this is true. This question would need a lot of research. http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/atext/vyssot.pdf http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0501/0501216.pdf http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PLATETEC/TOPTEN.HTM http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/largeeruptions.cfm

4.I see The First dictatorship as what will come out of the ‘global solution’ to the collapse of the world economy that is now being proposed by some here in the US, England, France, Russia and China. Of course this solution won't last and collapse after 3 1/2 years.

5.Back in ’99 Bro Skousen didn’t realize that by now there would be millions of illegal immigrants from south of the boarder. Nor did he see the Government of Mexico taken over by the evil drug cartels. I agree with most of you that these will be the seed of Jacob that will scourge the gentiles if we don’t repent.

6.I don’t see Russia taking the Arab’s oil. Iran and Turkey will be allied with Gog and Magog during the war of Armageddon. Unless the Persians and Turks ally with Russia to take the oil from their Arab rivals. See no reason for it though, they have lots of oil. I know that China is desperately looking for oil resources.

7.The 2nd Dictatorship could be what the UN transforms into after WW III. The winner will decide who governs and how.

I believe that as events occur they’ll will become more plane to us. As we study and watch current events we will be given the answeres.


OMD

[LittleLioncaptain of 100]

Very good comments by all. I really like this forum and the people that are here. I want to thank LDSC for all his efforts and the rest of you for staying close to the Lord and blessing us with your wisdom and love.

This topic is very near and dear to all of our hearts. Keep up the great comments, I love you guys.

LL

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

My uncle takes a trip once or twice every year to Guatemala to take old computers, cell phones, etc along with some BOMs. He's done this for over a decade now.

My uncle does too. We might be cousins

[lamanite_mormonGirlcaptain of 100]

I love Cleon Skousen and his writings. Especially his “Treasures of the BofM“, “The Thousand Year” series, and “The Naked Capitalist/Communist”. I was lucky enough to take his B of M class while attending BYU years ago. We used the “Treasures of the Book of mormon” and still have the first editions he wrote.

I have read his article “What we might Expect in the Next Twenty-Five Years” and see how he could come to many of his conclusions. Here are my comments

1.Many of the 144k have already been called; “I attended prayer-meeting with the quorum in the assembly room, and made some remarks respecting the hundred and forty-four thousand mentioned by John the Revelator, showing that the selection of persons to form that number had already commenced.” (HC, J SMITH 6:196) This selection of the 144,000 may even be complete.

2.John Pratt theorizes that, since the Savior was born IN and not AT “the meridian of time”, the 5th seal could have began anywhere from 33-70 AD. No one knows for sure. http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds ... a_cal.html

3.[Thinking out lowed] Could the events of Rev 6:13-17 have already occurred? I tend to think not, but you never know, we could be wrong. John speaks of several events occurring when the 6th seal was opened; A great earth quake, sun going dark, moon turning to blood, stars falling, ‘the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together’ (?), mountains and islands moving, and everyone hiding from God’s wrath. Someone with more time should do research to see if there was a short period of time during the beginning of the 2nd century when there were earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, an eclipse, and meteor showers, all at the same time. I found a few things but nothing to indicate that this is true. This question would need a lot of research. http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/atext/vyssot.pdf http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0501/0501216.pdf http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PLATETEC/TOPTEN.HTM http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/largeeruptions.cfm

4.I see The First dictatorship as what will come out of the ‘global solution’ to the collapse of the world economy that is now being proposed by some here in the US, England, France, Russia and China. Of course this solution won't last and collapse after 3 1/2 years.

5.Back in ’99 Bro Skousen didn’t realize that by now there would be millions of illegal immigrants from south of the boarder. Nor did he see the Government of Mexico taken over by the evil drug cartels. I agree with most of you that these will be the seed of Jacob that will scourge the gentiles if we don’t repent.

6.I don’t see Russia taking the Arab’s oil. Iran and Turkey will be allied with Gog and Magog during the war of Armageddon. Unless the Persians and Turks ally with Russia to take the oil from their Arab rivals. See no reason for it though, they have lots of oil. I know that China is desperately looking for oil resources.

7.The 2nd Dictatorship could be what the UN transforms into after WW III. The winner will decide who governs and how.

I believe that as events occur they’ll will become more plane to us. As we study and watch current events we will be given the answeres.


OMD

4.I see The First dictatorship as what will come out of the ‘global solution’ to the collapse of the world economy that is now being proposed by some here in the US, England, France, Russia and China. Of course this solution won't last and collapse after 3 1/2 years.


The funny thing is that just last week PM from Britain and Obama met and talk about how the solution to the economic downfall would be to create a global economy and setting up a task committee made up of few countries to over see it and to create taxes for the global community, it seems to me that this is not that far off.

6.I don’t see Russia taking the Arab’s oil. Iran and Turkey will be allied with Gog and Magog during the war of Armageddon. Unless the Persians and Turks ally with Russia to take the oil from their Arab rivals. See no reason for it though, they have lots of oil. I know that China is desperately looking for oil resources.

I follow Joel Rosenberg's blog even though he is not lDS but evangelical his books on the last days are excellent and as matter of fact a few things that he has written about in those books came true just a few months after publishing, anyways in his blog he mention about 6 months ago that Putin was meeting with Ahmadinejad.

[Oldemandaltoncaptain of 1,000]

Lamanite Mormongirl, you are right. The Russians are helping Iran build a nuclear power plant (not directly related to their attempt to build a N-Bomb) and will soon send them an advanced air defense system that will make it very difficult to take out their scattered sites where they are preparing to build Nuclear weapons. This gives the US and Israel only a small window of opportunity if they decide to try and take out those sites. The alliance of Gog and Magog is coming together very rapidly.

Old Man Dalton

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

As I've stated before, where do the Muslim nations fit into all of this? They aren't the House of Israel, but they are close. They're also part of Gog's army at Armageddon. Are they part of the heathen mission?

Dr. Skousen's opinion was that we will NOT go to either the Jews or the Muslims....

The reason being (and why the Church changed policy to NOT baptize any Jew who is recognized as part of a Synagogue) is that the Jews role NOW and in near future is to rebuild the Jerusalem temple, endure Armageddon, and to meet the Savior when He splits the Mt. of Olives in half...

He indicated that we generally won't baptize Muslims now due to the high level of death threats they have for leaving Islam. As for their nations, they will be converted once the Savior has saved Israel...this will be when they say to a Jew "Let us go up to Jerusalem, for your God is there with you" (paraphrased OT verse).

Both ethno-races/religions will be converted by the Savior after Armageddon....

[minuet1captain of 100]

The reason being (and why the Church changed policy to NOT baptize any Jew who is recognized as part of a Synagogue) is that the Jews role NOW and in near future is to rebuild the Jerusalem temple, endure Armageddon, and to meet the Savior when He splits the Mt. of Olives in half...

This is the first I've heard of the church not baptizing Jews who belong to a synagogue. Guess the several people I know who converted from Judaism weren't in a synagogue. Do you have any reference that info?

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

As explained to me, this was a change made in the 90's, related to the Church promising to NOT attempt in any way to preach in Israel, and to remove Holocaust victims' names from Temple work (also another policy statement in 1982). My comment refers to anyone who is known in the Jewish religious community, as the feeling is that the time is too short, and the time is rapidly approaching when the Jews will play their part in the Last Days.

But hey, you can ask Dr. Skousen when you see him... okay, you can also ask Dr. Kimber (Skousen's son-in-law and apparent successor) for his overall feeling on this issue also...

[Oldemandaltoncaptain of 1,000]

Two Apostles of the Lord will perform miracles to save Jerusalem from the armies of Gog and Magog for 3 ½ years before they are killed. We don’t know if their ministry among the Jews will begin before the war or not. It may well be that they go to Israel before the war starts to begin a low key missionary effort there. It all depends on the conditions we find there when the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled and the openness of the Israeli government at the time. All we know is that when the Gospel is taken from the Gentiles it will then go to the Jews.

After 3 ½ years of miracles many Muslims may also be converted to the truth while witnessing God’s power.

Many Muslims come into contact with the Church at this time when they come over here while working or going to school. I know it’s not a great number but some of the elect from amoung them are being converted here and in other more tolerant countries.

OMD

[Lamoni'sBFFcaptain of 100]

Oldemandalton,
IMHO I think that is a misconception that the two prophets will be members of our church. I think that it is much more likely that they will be prophets from among the Jews for the Jews.

[ShawnCMinion]

Oldemandalton,
IMHO I think that is a misconception that the two prophets will be members of our church. I think that it is much more likely that they will be prophets from among the Jews for the Jews.

Agreed. I believe it is said that they are two prophets "raised up unto the jewish nation" or something along those lines?

Shawn

[Oldemandaltoncaptain of 1,000]

Here are a few quotes that support my theory that the 2 prophets will be LDS Apostles. I’ll be able to find some more when I can get to my library at home.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie: "And these two shall be followers of that humble man, Joseph Smith, through whom the Lord of Heaven restored the fulness of his everlasting gospel in this final dispensation of grace. No doubt they will be members of the Council of the Twelve or of the First Presidency of the Church. Their prophetic ministry to rebellious Jewry shall be the same in length as was our Lord's personal ministry among their rebellious forebears." (DNTC, 3:510-511)

"Two prophets will be raised up unto (not from) the Jewish nation after the gathering. (See Isa. 51:17–20; Zech. 4:11–14.) More is given on the mission of these two prophets in Rev. 11:1–14." Brent Bulloch, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Dec. 1981, 58–60
Brent Bulloch was the director of college curriculum, Church Educational System.

No Jewish leader will know how to save the people from their predicament, but the Lord will raise up two mighty prophets who will use the power of the priesthood to stop the hosts of the gentiles. Nevertheless, the gentiles will eventually break through and kill these two prophets. W. Cleon Skousen, “The Old Testament Speaks Today,” Ensign, Dec 1972, 79

A Student Still Learning
Old Man Dalton

[lamanite_mormonGirlcaptain of 100]

Here are a few quotes that support my theory that the 2 prophets will be LDS Apostles. I’ll be able to find some more when I can get to my library at home.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie: "And these two shall be followers of that humble man, Joseph Smith, through whom the Lord of Heaven restored the fulness of his everlasting gospel in this final dispensation of grace. No doubt they will be members of the Council of the Twelve or of the First Presidency of the Church. Their prophetic ministry to rebellious Jewry shall be the same in length as was our Lord's personal ministry among their rebellious forebears." (DNTC, 3:510-511)

"Two prophets will be raised up unto (not from) the Jewish nation after the gathering. (See Isa. 51:17–20; Zech. 4:11–14.) More is given on the mission of these two prophets in Rev. 11:1–14." Brent Bulloch, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Dec. 1981, 58–60
Brent Bulloch was the director of college curriculum, Church Educational System.

No Jewish leader will know how to save the people from their predicament, but the Lord will raise up two mighty prophets who will use the power of the priesthood to stop the hosts of the gentiles. Nevertheless, the gentiles will eventually break through and kill these two prophets. W. Cleon Skousen, “The Old Testament Speaks Today,” Ensign, Dec 1972, 79

A Student Still Learning
Old Man Dalton

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm terrible at speaking of the cuff without the actual quotes to back it up. I've heard that the first presidency as well as the quorum of the twelve apostles are set apart as prophets, so that it could be a couple of the twelve that get sent to Israel.

[JanneHi, I'm new.]

LukeAir--Regarding your comment on Boyd K Packer stating Europe and the US were no longer Christian nations. A book called "America Alone" describes the demographics of Europe and the US. The author, Mark Steyn--if I remember correctly--points out how the birthrate in Europe has already transformed those nations into over 50% Muslim populations. Christianity in the US has been falling at a slower rate due to ethnic changes, but has been falling more to an increased number of citizens disavowing a Christian philosophy. From my viewpoint, it appears there is a resurgence of Christian interest of late, but whether the percentages are there or not--I do not know.

[DrJaycaptain of 100]

Here are a few quotes that support my theory that the 2 prophets will be LDS Apostles. I’ll be able to find some more when I can get to my library at home.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm terrible at speaking of the cuff without the actual quotes to back it up. I've heard that the first presidency as well as the quorum of the twelve apostles are set apart as prophets, so that it could be a couple of the twelve that get sent to Israel.

I would be surprised if these two prophets are LDS Apostles and/or in the first presidency.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

I would not be surprised if the two Apostles were sent. It makes perfect sense. Of course they will need some aids to help them. Would you volunteer to go with them as their aid?

I would.

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

Here are a few quotes that support my theory that the 2 prophets will be LDS Apostles. I’ll be able to find some more when I can get to my library at home.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm terrible at speaking of the cuff without the actual quotes to back it up. I've heard that the first presidency as well as the quorum of the twelve apostles are set apart as prophets, so that it could be a couple of the twelve that get sent to Israel.

I would be surprised if these two prophets are LDS Apostles and/or in the first presidency.

Why DrJ? Who / what do you think the 2 witnesses are?

Thanks.

[Lamoni'sBFFcaptain of 100]

Two Jews. There are places where the Lord has said he raises up prophets among his other peoples.

[slamarwiHi, I'm new.]

We are still in the sixth period. Here is my rationale.

Necessary Signs of the Sixth Seal

1. Worldwide Earthquake
2. Mountains and Islands moved out of their places
3. Darkened Sun – imagine smoke, ash or other air pollutants
4. The Reddening Moon – probably same as number 3
5. A sign will be seen in the heavens. Some will say it’s a comet, others a planet but all will see
6. Stars falling or appear to fall
7. The heavens rolling up like a scroll – Our heavenly position is possibly altered
8. Universal Consternation/Confusion of Man

These events are meant to startle and severely warn all inhabitants of the earth. We will be shaken temporally and (hopefully) spiritually into repentance. During this time of great chaos, economic and political turmoil will occur. This is likely the point where the priesthood steps in and rescues the United States.

Timing: These trials happen just the moment prior to the opening of the Seventh Seal. Once complete, the band of the seventh seal is broken and the millennium begins with silence in heaven for the space of a half hour.

This silence in heaven represents the calm before the angels sound their trumpets and allow the real calamities to begin. The silence upon the earth occurs due to the frightening devastation experienced at the end of the 6th period. It does not however mean widespread peace or righteousness. In fact, the inhabitants of the world harden their hearts and become more wicked, signaling the Lord that it is time to call upon the Angels to begin their appointed tasks.

This period of silence is a blessing for the righteous allowing the gospel to be preached, temple ordinances completed and preparations made for the real tribulations to come. It is at this point we must trust in the Lord for the miracles that will be shown to the righteous.

Once the trumpets sound (2030ish)… preparation time is over.