New Self-Reliance Program... Economic Collapse Ahead?

[KurtTheMormon]

I had the opportunity to begin participating in a Self-Reliance program from the 12 that emphasizes financial stability. As I sat in a meeting with one of the higher leaders overseeing this initiative, he said that this program comes straight from the desk of the Church Presidency and that it is meant to help us with issues that will arise in the future. He likened it to the Proclamation on the Family, which came out before all of the most major attacks on the Family Unit began, and that this program is similar.

Does this mean that there is extensive financial instability ahead? I would say that this is so, based on the feelings I felt from the Holy Ghost. If I understood correctly, this new Self Reliance program will soon be church-wide, and will involve millions of people.

Here is the mentioned program: https://www.lds.org/topics/pef-self-rel ... g&old=true

[Michelle]

I believe so, I believe that by study( economics and demographic) and faith ( the words of the prophets and this program) we can know the truth if all things.

[harakim]

I have had a strong thought that if those in power are evil, we will see major deflation.

[brianj]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

[KurtTheMormon]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

It would be far wiser for you to spend it on food storage. Buy a year's supply for everyone in your household. The collapse is coming very soon.

https://beprepared.com/food-storage/one ... ombos.html is the best place to get year's supplies.

[Robin Hood]

I had the opportunity to begin participating in a Self-Reliance program from the 12 that emphasizes financial stability. As I sat in a meeting with one of the higher leaders overseeing this initiative, he said that this program comes straight from the desk of the Church Presidency and that it is meant to help us with issues that will arise in the future. He likened it to the Proclamation on the Family, which came out before all of the most major attacks on the Family Unit began, and that this program is similar.

Does this mean that there is extensive financial instability ahead? I would say that this is so, based on the feelings I felt from the Holy Ghost. If I understood correctly, this new Self Reliance program will soon be church-wide, and will involve millions of people.

Here is the mentioned program: https://www.lds.org/topics/pef-self-rel ... g&old=true

The SR pogramme has been around now for some time. At least 3 years.
I am extremely doubtful that it came "straight from the desk of the first presidency", other than it was approved just like all the other programnes and teaching materials we have.
That said, there is nothing in the programme which is new or which hasn't been taught in the past.
The advantage of bundling it all up in a specific programne is that it concentrates the information and gives people time to apply practical steps in a measured and measurable way, to become more self reliant. It enables them to detect areas which need attention and to priotitise their efforts in the most effective way.
I do think you're right to suggest the leading brethren of the church feel this principle needs more emphasis, I just don't think it is bdcause of some prophetically detected imminent economic collapse.

[KurtTheMormon]

I had the opportunity to begin participating in a Self-Reliance program from the 12 that emphasizes financial stability. As I sat in a meeting with one of the higher leaders overseeing this initiative, he said that this program comes straight from the desk of the Church Presidency and that it is meant to help us with issues that will arise in the future. He likened it to the Proclamation on the Family, which came out before all of the most major attacks on the Family Unit began, and that this program is similar.

Does this mean that there is extensive financial instability ahead? I would say that this is so, based on the feelings I felt from the Holy Ghost. If I understood correctly, this new Self Reliance program will soon be church-wide, and will involve millions of people.

Here is the mentioned program: https://www.lds.org/topics/pef-self-rel ... g&old=true

The SR pogramme has been around now for some time. At least 3 years.
I am extremely doubtful that it came "straight from the desk of the first presidency", other than it was approved just like all the other programnes and teaching materials we have.
That said, there is nothing in the programme which is new or which hasn't been taught in the past.
The advantage of bundling it all up in a specific programne is that it concentrates the information and gives people time to apply practical steps in a measured and measurable way, to become more self reliant. It enables them to detect areas which need attention and to priotitise their efforts in the most effective way.
I do think you're right to suggest the leading brethren of the church feel this principle needs more emphasis, I just don't think it is bdcause of some prophetically detected imminent economic collapse.

"Came from the first presidency" is exactly what the person initiating this new program at our group meeting said. They themselves came from a meeting with a 70, and the 70 came from the presidency which initiated the new programs.

While the Self Reliance branch has been around for several years, it has just completed the pilot program to initiate a much larger church-wide initiative. The new program is brand new, and focuses exclusively on finding jobs, financial knowledge, making a business, and financial readiness for disasters. They just exited the pilot program phase.

Each person participates in this new program for about 12 weeks depending on their need. Each participant selects which sub-program would fit best for them, (finding jobs, financial knowledge, creating a business, and financial readiness are the four sub-programs).

It makes sense that if there were economic crisis coming, they would install programs like this BEFORE it happened. Aside from helping people currently in financial need, I believe that preparing something larger is this program's main purpose.

[Robin Hood]

I had the opportunity to begin participating in a Self-Reliance program from the 12 that emphasizes financial stability. As I sat in a meeting with one of the higher leaders overseeing this initiative, he said that this program comes straight from the desk of the Church Presidency and that it is meant to help us with issues that will arise in the future. He likened it to the Proclamation on the Family, which came out before all of the most major attacks on the Family Unit began, and that this program is similar.

Does this mean that there is extensive financial instability ahead? I would say that this is so, based on the feelings I felt from the Holy Ghost. If I understood correctly, this new Self Reliance program will soon be church-wide, and will involve millions of people.

Here is the mentioned program: https://www.lds.org/topics/pef-self-rel ... g&old=true

The SR pogramme has been around now for some time. At least 3 years.
I am extremely doubtful that it came "straight from the desk of the first presidency", other than it was approved just like all the other programnes and teaching materials we have.
That said, there is nothing in the programme which is new or which hasn't been taught in the past.
The advantage of bundling it all up in a specific programne is that it concentrates the information and gives people time to apply practical steps in a measured and measurable way, to become more self reliant. It enables them to detect areas which need attention and to priotitise their efforts in the most effective way.
I do think you're right to suggest the leading brethren of the church feel this principle needs more emphasis, I just don't think it is bdcause of some prophetically detected imminent economic collapse.

"Came from the first presidency" is exactly what the person initiating this new program at our group meeting said. They themselves came from a meeting with a 70, and the 70 came from the presidency which initiated the new programs.

While the Self Reliance branch has been around for several years, it has just completed the pilot program to initiate a much larger church-wide initiative. The new program is brand new, and focuses exclusively on finding jobs, financial knowledge, making a business, and financial readiness for disasters. They just exited the pilot program phase.

Each person participates in this new program for about 12 weeks depending on their need. Each participant selects which sub-program would fit best for them, (finding jobs, financial knowledge, creating a business, and financial readiness are the four sub-programs).

It makes sense that if there were economic crisis coming, they would install programs like this BEFORE it happened. Aside from helping people currently in financial need, I believe that preparing something larger is this program's main purpose.

My region of the UK is one of the pilot areas, and I sit on the stake self-reliance committee as the agent Bishop.
We are supported by employed church self-reliance officers.
As I said before, there is nothing new in the content of the programme but it is packaged and delivered in a structured way designed to enable participants to make positive changes.
So far, so good.

[mirkwood]

I held the stake welfare (emergency prep) calling for nearly a decade. I was released just before the new year because the changes were coming and I was only going to be in the calling for about one more year. The SP did not want to have to start someone new after I had been trained. I was told the changes coming are from the Q12 and First Presidency.

[Robin Hood]

Everything in the church is technically "from the Q12 and the First Presidency".
What actually occurs is that a task group will have been set up to look at this issue, they will have come up with everything, they then run it passed the leading brethren who then approve it.
Following approval it is rolled out to the church.

[Silver]

Everything in the church is technically "from the Q12 and the First Presidency".
What actually occurs is that a task group will have been set up to look at this issue, they will have come up with everything, they then run it passed the leading brethren who then approve it.
Following approval it is rolled out to the church.

LOL. So is the Q12 like the government and the 1st Presidency like the Crown, or is that a different discussion?

[gclayjr]

The original Food Storage program came about during the great depression. Various other self reliant programs have evolved over the years. Recently they have added the "Pathways" program to help people get training and education to better their career. So it always evolves and improves.

Prior to WW2, there seems to have been a number of "cataclysmic events" that began very terrible periods of time. Whether it be the bombing of Pearl Harbor, The crash of 29 for Wall Street,, the Sinking of the Lusitania, etc (this does appear to be a US centric list). We know that we live in the last days and that some terrible things are going to happen and that we should be prepared. It leads us to look and try to figure out what is coming. I remember the Hippie/sexual revolution of the 60s and everybody thought that was going to "bring everything down". I remember stagflation and 2 oil crises in the 70's and I thought that was a harbinger of everything falling apart. I remember the terrorist attack on 09-11 and many thought that that was the beginning of the end. I remember the 2008 financial collapse on wall street, and I thought everything would be in the toilet by 2010. I thought that the election of Trump would trigger something, not because of Trump himself, but that either Obama or the Deep State (I didn't know that term at the time) would do something dramatic rather than turn over power. I have been right on what would happen, but it is too early to see if this is going to result in some great catastrophe.

Now there have been a lot of bad things happen, sometimes as a result of events named above, but at least here in the U.S., nothing catastrophic has happened since WW2. It actually has been one of the longest periods of relative peace and economic bounty in the history of the world. Yes there have been wars, but none of them desperate to defend us from potential annihilation, Yes there have been economic problems, but for most, nothing that made food and shelter generally unavailable, yes there have been earthquakes, storms etc, but nothing that has effected anything but 1 single locality.

Generally in the past 70 years or so, life has been pretty good and the party can go on. If somebody lives in Venezuela or Syria, maybe things haven't been quite so good, but for America and the West in general, the party goes on, and on, and on.

It is obvious that there are many things going on that surely are "unsustainable" and point to some terrible crash in the future. The continued wasteful spending and borrowing, the moral decay, and lack of family structures, Crime and drugs, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, and the list goes on.

Is there some terrible crash coming soon? Yes, of course, it has been prophesied. What does soon mean? Apparently soon, hasn't meant the past 70 years or so. Is it going to be tomorrow? Next year? next decade? during my lifetime? I don't know. I will probably continue to watch, continue to guess and continue to prepare.

However, I will not guide my life based upon the expectation that any specific event will lead to any specific calamity at any specific time in the future. Those who do are fools.

Regards,

George Clay

[Michelle]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

You won't lose out in anything if you follow the prompting.

First, my testimony is that we had a similar sort of prompting years ago and it turned out to be our temporal salvation. Not enough time for the full story right now.

Even if you don't achieve your dream in this life, the rewards in the life to come will seriously dwarf the sacrifice.

It seems the Lord is asking you to live more fully the covenant of the Law of Consecration.

It may even be that you will still travel internationally, but in the service of the Lord.

[Silver]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

You won't lose out in anything if you follow the prompting.

First, my testimony is that we had a similar sort of prompting years ago and it turned out to be our temporal salvation. Not enough time for the full story right now.

Even if you don't achieve your dream in this life, the rewards in the life to come will seriously dwarf the sacrifice.

It seems the Lord is asking you to live more fully the covenant of the Law of Consecration.

It may even be that you will still travel internationally, but in the service of the Lord.

1,000 bonus points for using the words "dwarf" and "sacrifice" in the same sentence.

[True]

brianj,
If you know how to play the credit card points game, you can get it all paid for. Last September my husband and I took a trip to Austria, Switzerland and southern Germany with free flights and free hotel. (Some of the towns were too small to have a qualifying hotels though.). It took us a few years to save up the points but hey....free trip.

[HoldingFast]

I have been told that the twelve are calling senior missionary's and sending them out to specifically work with families that have been on church assistance and government welfare too long. The missionary's are to help these families get back on their own feet through job searches, budgeting, etc. All the self-reliance principles that have been taught but they are now focusing on getting them implemented.My brothers stake president received a call from one of the 12 to go to New Mexico for this purpose.

[Arandur]

Economic collapse seems likely. If this truly is like unto the Proclamation, it could also be a sign of upcoming pressure to become dependent on government aid rather than becoming self-sufficient. You know, the same stuff that's been going on for at least 80 years or so, but to a greater and more pervasive degree.

[Michelle]

This article, from this month's Ensign, signals trouble ahead.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/07/reli ... k?lang=Eng.

Financially, note the references to people losing jobs, the church losing its tax exempt status, not being able to deduct tithes and offering, and losing access to grants and loans for education.

[Silver]

This article, from this month's Ensign, signals trouble ahead.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/07/reli ... k?lang=Eng.

Financially, note the references to people losing jobs, the church losing its tax exempt status, not being able to deduct tithes and offering, and losing access to grants and loans for education.

Thanks for sharing the link to that article. It contains good, basic information. Robin Hood was just asking the other day about the value of the Ensign. I think that article is his answer.

The material in the article comes from lds.org: https://lds.org/religious-freedom?cid=r ... reedom_eng

I'm finding that no matter how much I read at lds.org, I cannot keep up with all the good info. Soul-saving stuff.

[Yahtzee]

Woah! I thought the same thing, but it was after I read Elder Bednar's article
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/07/on-t ... p?lang=eng
particularly when he quoted President Lee about prosperity, I thought it indicated we were coming to the chastening part of the "pride cycle".

Today we are basking in the lap of luxury, the like of which we’ve never seen before in the history of the world. It would seem that probably this is the most severe test of any test that we’ve ever had in the history of this Church.”8

These teachings from modern and ancient prophets about latter-day tests and trials are sobering and solemn. But they should not be discouraging, and we should not be afraid. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, spiritual warnings lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning” (D&C 63:58). And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be, as the Apostle Paul admonished, “watching … with all perseverance” (Ephesians 6:18). As we watch and prepare, truly we have no need to fear (see D&C 38:30).

It stood out to me because he had quoted Helaman right before,

“And thus we can behold how false, and also the unsteadiness of the hearts of the children of men; yea, we can see that the Lord in his great infinite goodness doth bless and prosper those who put their trust in him.

“Yea, and we may see at the very time when he doth prosper his people, yea, in the increase of their fields, their flocks and their herds, and in gold, and in silver, and in all manner of precious things of every kind and art; sparing their lives, and delivering them out of the hands of their enemies; softening the hearts of their enemies that they should not declare wars against them; yea, and in fine, doing all things for the welfare and happiness of his people; yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity” (Helaman 12:1–2).

I invite you specifically to note the final phrase in the last verse: “and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity.”

He does not continue with the scriptures, but the third verse of Helaman is what ties this together.

3 And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

[brianj]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

It would be far wiser for you to spend it on food storage. Buy a year's supply for everyone in your household. The collapse is coming very soon.

https://beprepared.com/food-storage/one ... ombos.html is the best place to get year's supplies.

I find developments on this front hilarious. Three years ago a friend gave me a copy of Visions of Glory. I read it with interest but my wife really got into it, then was the motivating force behind getting all of Julie Rowe's books and seeing her in person. She also discovered people like Jonathan Cahn and a bunch of Christian ministers claiming that they had visions of an election not happening last year and Obama refusing to leave office. For most of our marriage I wanted food storage but she was adamantly against it, and suddenly she started chastising me for not already having it and demanding I buy it. So I bought food storage for the number of people in my home.

Last summer or fall she entered a path that led her to file for divorce in December and turn her back on the covenants she had made in temples. When she packed her stuff she left all of the food storage behind. So now I'm alone with what amounts to enough food to last me for years. So I'm set in that department.

I have a coworker, someone who is becoming a dear friend, who was thrown into poverty and is slowly climbing out of it. I promised to provide for her and her child should a collapse come before either of us gets engaged.

[Michelle]

Woah! I thought the same thing, but it was after I read Elder Bednar's article
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/07/on-t ... p?lang=eng
particularly when he quoted President Lee about prosperity, I thought it indicated we were coming to the chastening part of the "pride cycle".

Today we are basking in the lap of luxury, the like of which we’ve never seen before in the history of the world. It would seem that probably this is the most severe test of any test that we’ve ever had in the history of this Church.”8

These teachings from modern and ancient prophets about latter-day tests and trials are sobering and solemn. But they should not be discouraging, and we should not be afraid. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, spiritual warnings lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning” (D&C 63:58). And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be, as the Apostle Paul admonished, “watching … with all perseverance” (Ephesians 6:18). As we watch and prepare, truly we have no need to fear (see D&C 38:30).

It stood out to me because he had quoted Helaman right before,

“And thus we can behold how false, and also the unsteadiness of the hearts of the children of men; yea, we can see that the Lord in his great infinite goodness doth bless and prosper those who put their trust in him.

“Yea, and we may see at the very time when he doth prosper his people, yea, in the increase of their fields, their flocks and their herds, and in gold, and in silver, and in all manner of precious things of every kind and art; sparing their lives, and delivering them out of the hands of their enemies; softening the hearts of their enemies that they should not declare wars against them; yea, and in fine, doing all things for the welfare and happiness of his people; yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity” (Helaman 12:1–2).

I invite you specifically to note the final phrase in the last verse: “and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity.”

He does not continue with the scriptures, but the third verse of Helaman is what ties this together.

3 And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

That's funny, I read those two articles (Religious Freedom and Zion's Camp) one after the other, then posted my comment.

[Michelle]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

It would be far wiser for you to spend it on food storage. Buy a year's supply for everyone in your household. The collapse is coming very soon.

https://beprepared.com/food-storage/one ... ombos.html is the best place to get year's supplies.

I find developments on this front hilarious. Three years ago a friend gave me a copy of Visions of Glory. I read it with interest but my wife really got into it, then was the motivating force behind getting all of Julie Rowe's books and seeing her in person. She also discovered people like Jonathan Cahn and a bunch of Christian ministers claiming that they had visions of an election not happening last year and Obama refusing to leave office. For most of our marriage I wanted food storage but she was adamantly against it, and suddenly she started chastising me for not already having it and demanding I buy it. So I bought food storage for the number of people in my home.

Last summer or fall she entered a path that led her to file for divorce in December and turn her back on the covenants she had made in temples. When she packed her stuff she left all of the food storage behind. So now I'm alone with what amounts to enough food to last me for years. So I'm set in that department.

I have a coworker, someone who is becoming a dear friend, who was thrown into poverty and is slowly climbing out of it. I promised to provide for her and her child should a collapse come before either of us gets engaged.

I'm sorry to hear your story. I wish I hadn't heard the same one from others I know personally. Julie Rowe and the others are going to have some accountability, I am afraid, for the souls lost and families torn by their false vision.

[KurtTheMormon]

Economic collapse seems likely. If this truly is like unto the Proclamation, it could also be a sign of upcoming pressure to become dependent on government aid rather than becoming self-sufficient. You know, the same stuff that's been going on for at least 80 years or so, but to a greater and more pervasive degree.

That is nearly word-for-word what they said. I live in Salt Lake City, so it was no big issue for one of the leaders from the downtown church office buildings to come set this up in our YSA stake.

[KurtTheMormon]

It has been my unrequited dream to travel internationally for over 3/4 of my life to date. I'm finally getting into a position where I believe that I may have the budget to do so as early as next winter or spring, but I'm also feeling like it would be unwise to not save that money against a day of need that is coming very soon.

I keep having this image in my mind of finally being able to book my first trip across an ocean then having my Bishop call me into his office, remind me of my temple covenants, and say families in the ward really need that money for their support. Helping families who have squandered away the chance to prepare by doing what I dreamed of, then denying me the desires of my heart because they need my money, would be incredibly painful. But I hope that if it happens I can find the resolve to honor my covenants.

It would be far wiser for you to spend it on food storage. Buy a year's supply for everyone in your household. The collapse is coming very soon.

https://beprepared.com/food-storage/one ... ombos.html is the best place to get year's supplies.

I find developments on this front hilarious. Three years ago a friend gave me a copy of Visions of Glory. I read it with interest but my wife really got into it, then was the motivating force behind getting all of Julie Rowe's books and seeing her in person. She also discovered people like Jonathan Cahn and a bunch of Christian ministers claiming that they had visions of an election not happening last year and Obama refusing to leave office. For most of our marriage I wanted food storage but she was adamantly against it, and suddenly she started chastising me for not already having it and demanding I buy it. So I bought food storage for the number of people in my home.

Last summer or fall she entered a path that led her to file for divorce in December and turn her back on the covenants she had made in temples. When she packed her stuff she left all of the food storage behind. So now I'm alone with what amounts to enough food to last me for years. So I'm set in that department.

I have a coworker, someone who is becoming a dear friend, who was thrown into poverty and is slowly climbing out of it. I promised to provide for her and her child should a collapse come before either of us gets engaged.

I'm sorry. I did not mean to touch on a bad issue. My apologies.