Warnings from the Past

[LdsMarco]

We of today must heed this warning if we ourselves are to survive.

“That whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.” (Ether 2:8)

In plain, blunt words, then, we are told that whatever nations occupy this land must serve God or die!

Warnings from the Past
by Mark E. Petersen
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... t?lang=eng

[lundbaek]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

[LdsMarco]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

I would like to know your opinion on why?

[SouEu]

1/2 hour of silence?

[lundbaek]

I believe that Church general authorities do not speak as did Elder Mark E. Petersen did (above) is because:

1.) Doing so could antagonize certain elements in the US government and in governments of other countries, and lead to retribution and persecution that would disrupt the Church's missionary and building programs,

2.) Doing so could cause serious controversy among Church members,

3.) Doing so could drive investigators away,

4.) Doing so would draw focus away from the "prophetic priorities".

However, I believe there is an effort to get that message out there discretely, as evidenced, for example, by a statement in President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign, Pg 23: "We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you. [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

[Mark]

I believe that Church general authorities do not speak as did Elder Mark E. Petersen did (above) is because:

1.) Doing so could antagonize certain elements in the US government and in governments of other countries, and lead to retribution and persecution that would disrupt the Church's missionary and building programs,

2.) Doing so could cause serious controversy among Church members,

3.) Doing so could drive investigators away,

4.) Doing so would draw focus away from the "prophetic priorities".

However, I believe there is an effort to get that message out there discretely, as evidenced, for example, by a statement in President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign, Pg 23: "We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you. [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

Once again I adamantly disagree with your assessment here Lundbaek. You continue to go down this road again and again that the Brethren today are hesitant to speak out against the evils of our day and are not warning of what will occur if we do not serve Jesus Christ and repent of sin and transgression. That is exactly what Elder Petersen was speaking about in the talk shown here and his message is repeated again and again and again in conference address after conference address year in and year out. How can you say that church authorities do not speak as Elder Petersen did? They continue to give a warning voice to all who reject the message of many of the ancient prophets in scripture. As Pres. Benson reiterated in his Message to the Saints on how Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, the first principle we must incorporate was this:

1. "We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles—all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. In the final analysis, people generally get the kind of government they deserve. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the Source of our liberty."

That is principle #1. I think Pres. Benson would say it is priority #1. Isnt that what Elder Petersen is saying in his talk? Isnt that what apostle after apostle and seventy after seventy are saying to us in every conference? I hear it over and over again. Yet you continue to think that the Brethren today are not direct in their warnings for fear of antagonizing the govt leaders or driving members or investigators away. Sorry but I just dont see that at all. I feel the Brethren are just as direct today about the dangers we face of losing our liberty and falling under tyranny as they have always been. It starts with personal repentance and turning back to the God of this land who is Jesus Christ. In other words personal righteousness. If the Priesthood body of the church are directed by the spirit because of personal righteousness they will be prepared to perform their mandate of rescuing the righteous constitutional principles of govt set up by the Lord thru our founders that are being trampeled upon. That message is coming to us loud and clear every 6 months by speaker after speaker in our conferences. How are you missing it? #-o

[lundbaek]

If I were alone in thinking that the Brethren today are hesitant to speak out against specific dangers to our freedoms in our day I might question my opinion about it.

[DesertWonderer]

I believe that Church general authorities do not speak as did Elder Mark E. Petersen did (above) is because:

1.) Doing so could antagonize certain elements in the US government and in governments of other countries, and lead to retribution and persecution that would disrupt the Church's missionary and building programs,

2.) Doing so could cause serious controversy among Church members,

3.) Doing so could drive investigators away,

4.) Doing so would draw focus away from the "prophetic priorities".

However, I believe there is an effort to get that message out there discretely, as evidenced, for example, by a statement in President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign, Pg 23: "We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you. [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

Once again I adamantly disagree with your assessment here Lundbaek. You continue to go down this road again and again that the Brethren today are hesitant to speak out against the evils of our day and are not warning of what will occur if we do not serve Jesus Christ and repent of sin and transgression. That is exactly what Elder Petersen was speaking about in the talk shown here and his message is repeated again and again and again in conference address after conference address year in and year out. How can you say that church authorities do not speak as Elder Petersen did? They continue to give a warning voice to all who reject the message of many of the ancient prophets in scripture. As Pres. Benson reiterated in his Message to the Saints on how Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, the first principle we must incorporate was this:

1. "We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles—all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. In the final analysis, people generally get the kind of government they deserve. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the Source of our liberty."

That is principle #1. I think Pres. Benson would say it is priority #1. Isnt that what Elder Petersen is saying in his talk? Isnt that what apostle after apostle and seventy after seventy are saying to us in every conference? I hear it over and over again. Yet you continue to think that the Brethren today are not direct in their warnings for fear of antagonizing the govt leaders or driving members or investigators away. Sorry but I just dont see that at all. I feel the Brethren are just as direct today about the dangers we face of losing our liberty and falling under tyranny as they have always been. It starts with personal repentance and turning back to the God of this land who is Jesus Christ. In other words personal righteousness. If the Priesthood body of the church are directed by the spirit because of personal righteousness they will be prepared to perform their mandate of rescuing the righteous constitutional principles of govt set up by the Lord thru our founders that are being trampeled upon. That message is coming to us loud and clear every 6 months by speaker after speaker in our conferences. How are you missing it? #-o

In addition to what Mark said, it would also mean that The 15 fear man more that they fear God. I am quite certain that that is not the case. JMHO lumbeak might want to go read the various talks by The 15 about gospel hobbies. As noted in those talks, objectivity is lost when gospel hobbies are engaged.

[AI2.0]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

I think you are missing what the General Authorities saw over time. It didn't do any good.

By that I mean that earlier General authorities' such as Elder Peterson, Elder Romney, and Pres. Benson's way of trying to get the people to care about this didn't seem to work. We know now that it didn't get through, the members have not heeded his calls, it's clear a lot didn't listen to him, many even tuned him out. I think I know why--I've listened to and read some of Pres. Benson's old talks along this vein and they are secular in nature with only a smattering of spiritual teachings, yet the venue was General Conference--they sound so out of place to how our talks are today. I know that he aligned himself with the John Birch society and that made some people distrust his views and his politics--this hurt his influence during that time. And, if you read his later talks I think you can see that he was trying the approach that Alma and others found worked better--preaching the word of God helps bring people more in line than any other thing. He gave some incredible, spiritually powerful and far reaching talks when he was Prophet and he still taught liberty and freedom and love of Country--he just did it by encouraging us to read the Book of Mormon.

So, the way I see it, our General Authorities are following the a more powerful path, which they had modeled for them by President Benson when he wa Prophet--they preach the gospel and most importantly, they push us to read the Book of Mormon and if we'll do that, we can't help but learn that this is the promised land and how important liberty is. You want people to internalize the fundamentals of a free people and to gain and interest and love for the Constitution and what American stands for? Get them to read the Book of Mormon, teach it, preach it, internalize it's teachings--whether they are US citizens or not--it will still become ingrained in their hearts and spirits, if they become spiritual scholars of the Book of Mormon.

For members of the LDS church who enjoy this enlightenment, The Book of Mormon is the answer--not just for us in the US, but for the World.

[AI2.0]

I want to add that I'm very grateful for those talks that were given years ago in warning of the dangerous political winds and societal trends which these 'watchmen on the tower' clearly recognized--I believe they were inspired to give those warnings, unfortunately, it seems the warnings fell on mostly deaf ears when they were given, But, with the internet, later generations can benefit. They stand as prophetic words and warnings to us and we can recognize the truthfulness of their warnings and we can see once again that our leaders are inspired men of God and we should listen to their admonitions and act accordingly.

Lundbaek, I agree with your views of the importance of teachings and educating on the Constitution and applaud your efforts, but I don't agree with your opinion that our leaders are not warning us or are afraid to speak out--your reasons have a decided 'fear of men' element that I think is not actually correct. I listen to their talks, they are not afraid, they are bold in preaching. They could give the same kinds of talks that past General Authorities gave, but I think they are inspired to give the messages they give us today, for our time, in our day.

[Mark]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

I think you are missing what the General Authorities saw over time. It didn't do any good.

By that I mean that earlier General authorities' such as Elder Peterson, Elder Romney, and Pres. Benson's way of trying to get the people to care about this didn't seem to work. We know now that it didn't get through, the members have not heeded his calls, it's clear a lot didn't listen to him, many even tuned him out. I think I know why--I've listened to and read some of Pres. Benson's old talks along this vein and they are secular in nature with only a smattering of spiritual teachings, yet the venue was General Conference--they sound so out of place to how our talks are today. I know that he aligned himself with the John Birch society and that made some people distrust his views and his politics--this hurt his influence during that time. And, if you read his later talks I think you can see that he was trying the approach that Alma and others found worked better--preaching the word of God helps bring people more in line than any other thing. He gave some incredible, spiritually powerful and far reaching talks when he was Prophet and he still taught liberty and freedom and love of Country--he just did it by encouraging us to read the Book of Mormon.

So, the way I see it, our General Authorities are following the a more powerful path, which they had modeled for them by President Benson when he wa Prophet--they preach the gospel and most importantly, they push us to read the Book of Mormon and if we'll do that, we can't help but learn that this is the promised land and how important liberty is. You want people to internalize the fundamentals of a free people and to gain and interest and love for the Constitution and what American stands for? Get them to read the Book of Mormon, teach it, preach it, internalize it's teachings--whether they are US citizens or not--it will still become ingrained in their hearts and spirits, if they become spiritual scholars of the Book of Mormon.

For members of the LDS church who enjoy this enlightenment, The Book of Mormon is the answer--not just for us in the US, but for the World.

Great points. We need the spirit now more than ever with all the combinations aligned against us. The Book of Mormon really is the answer. What was it that Pres. Monson talked about in opening the last conference? The Power of the Book Of Mormon! Does this clarify things for you Lundbaek?

[kittycat51]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

I think you are missing what the General Authorities saw over time. It didn't do any good.

By that I mean that earlier General authorities' such as Elder Peterson, Elder Romney, and Pres. Benson's way of trying to get the people to care about this didn't seem to work. We know now that it didn't get through, the members have not heeded his calls, it's clear a lot didn't listen to him, many even tuned him out. I think I know why--I've listened to and read some of Pres. Benson's old talks along this vein and they are secular in nature with only a smattering of spiritual teachings, yet the venue was General Conference--they sound so out of place to how our talks are today. I know that he aligned himself with the John Birch society and that made some people distrust his views and his politics--this hurt his influence during that time. And, if you read his later talks I think you can see that he was trying the approach that Alma and others found worked better--preaching the word of God helps bring people more in line than any other thing. He gave some incredible, spiritually powerful and far reaching talks when he was Prophet and he still taught liberty and freedom and love of Country--he just did it by encouraging us to read the Book of Mormon.

So, the way I see it, our General Authorities are following the a more powerful path, which they had modeled for them by President Benson when he wa Prophet--they preach the gospel and most importantly, they push us to read the Book of Mormon and if we'll do that, we can't help but learn that this is the promised land and how important liberty is. You want people to internalize the fundamentals of a free people and to gain and interest and love for the Constitution and what American stands for? Get them to read the Book of Mormon, teach it, preach it, internalize it's teachings--whether they are US citizens or not--it will still become ingrained in their hearts and spirits, if they become spiritual scholars of the Book of Mormon.

For members of the LDS church who enjoy this enlightenment, The Book of Mormon is the answer--not just for us in the US, but for the World.

Great points. We need the spirit now more than ever with all the combinations aligned against us. The Book of Mormon really is the answer. What was it that Pres. Monson talked about in opening the last conference? The Power of the Book Of Mormon! Does this clarify things for you Lundbaek?

Yes but how many people caught on to the "subtlety " of his meaning? I'm sure it passed over many a head, other than yeah we should be reading the Book of Mormon.

[AI2.0]

That warning is given in 3 consecutive verses.

Church general authorities do not talk like that any more. I think it is important that we understand why.

I think you are missing what the General Authorities saw over time. It didn't do any good.

By that I mean that earlier General authorities' such as Elder Peterson, Elder Romney, and Pres. Benson's way of trying to get the people to care about this didn't seem to work. We know now that it didn't get through, the members have not heeded his calls, it's clear a lot didn't listen to him, many even tuned him out. I think I know why--I've listened to and read some of Pres. Benson's old talks along this vein and they are secular in nature with only a smattering of spiritual teachings, yet the venue was General Conference--they sound so out of place to how our talks are today. I know that he aligned himself with the John Birch society and that made some people distrust his views and his politics--this hurt his influence during that time. And, if you read his later talks I think you can see that he was trying the approach that Alma and others found worked better--preaching the word of God helps bring people more in line than any other thing. He gave some incredible, spiritually powerful and far reaching talks when he was Prophet and he still taught liberty and freedom and love of Country--he just did it by encouraging us to read the Book of Mormon.

So, the way I see it, our General Authorities are following the a more powerful path, which they had modeled for them by President Benson when he wa Prophet--they preach the gospel and most importantly, they push us to read the Book of Mormon and if we'll do that, we can't help but learn that this is the promised land and how important liberty is. You want people to internalize the fundamentals of a free people and to gain and interest and love for the Constitution and what American stands for? Get them to read the Book of Mormon, teach it, preach it, internalize it's teachings--whether they are US citizens or not--it will still become ingrained in their hearts and spirits, if they become spiritual scholars of the Book of Mormon.

For members of the LDS church who enjoy this enlightenment, The Book of Mormon is the answer--not just for us in the US, but for the World.

Great points. We need the spirit now more than ever with all the combinations aligned against us. The Book of Mormon really is the answer. What was it that Pres. Monson talked about in opening the last conference? The Power of the Book Of Mormon! Does this clarify things for you Lundbaek?

Yes but how many people caught on to the "subtlety " of his meaning? I'm sure it passed over many a head, other than yeah we should be reading the Book of Mormon.

They that hath ears to hear and eyes to see....

To me, there was no subtlety in his message, it hit me as powerful and profound, but maybe because I already read the book of mormon everyday and have a testimony that it was written for our day and as a blessing to us and I have been so moved to love this country and recognize it's role in the world through reading the book of mormon.
It worked for me so I know it will work for others...it's influence will change the world, but we need to be patient and trust God.

[lundbaek]

Freedom/Liberty is no more a gospel hobby for me that it was for Presidents Benson, McKay, Clark, and other Church general authorities who spoke about the importance of protecting our freedoms. I don't think their failure to get more Church members moving in the freedom battle is a reflection on their abilities as prophets, but rather a reflection on the members who ignored them.

I do focus on this topic on this forum because of the original intent and purpose of this forum. And at the moment I can think of over a dozen forum members who seem much concerned about the danger to our freedoms. We are losing the freedom battle still. However, I do believe the prophecy that indicates that, in my words now, some members of the Church will be involved in restoring constitutional principles to government.

And let me make it very clear that I am well aware that Church general authorities are warning of dire consequences if we do not serve Jesus Christ and repent of sin and transgression. But somehow,too many members are not getting it that serving Christ includes doing what we have been asked to do Re. protecting our freedoms.

[Spider]

A section of my son's patriarchal blessing is very interesting to me. It focuses on how my son should study and learn of the early founding fathers and the founding of this nation. It makes me wonder if my son will be one of the men prophesied about in the last days who will be fighting to save the constitution and this nation.

[Silver]

"Gospel hobby" is the epithet dragged out by guilt-laden church members whenever they want to belittle someone who is actively engaged in a good cause. No matter the person they attack reads the scriptures every day, faithfully attends church every week, consistently visits the families in his stewardship, fulfills his callings, prays multiple times daily, helps his neighbors, watches out for the children in the neighborhood and follows the Lord's advice to store every needful thing. Gospel hobby...sure, that's what it is.

How ironical that concern for the liberty of the US would earn such criticism on the LDS Freedom Forum.

[lundbaek]

Spider, thank you for telling us that your son's patriarchal blessing tells your son that he should study and learn of the early founding fathers and the founding of this nation. For me, it reinforces my conviction that the Lord does care that at least some of us learn of these things. I am aware of 16 other LDSs who have similar admonitions in their patriarchal blessings. Can you tell us what you plan to do or are doing to encourage him to comply with that instruction.

[Spider]

Spider, thank you for telling us that your son's patriarchal blessing tells your son that he should study and learn of the early founding fathers and the founding of this nation. For me, it reinforces my conviction that the Lord does care that at least some of us learn of these things. I am aware of 16 other LDSs who have similar admonitions in their patriarchal blessings. Can you tell us what you plan to do or are doing to encourage him to comply with that instruction.

Interesting about the other patriarchal blessings you are aware of that mention this. My son is in his mid 20's now and he loves studying a variety of topics. He has travelled the world, lived abroad, and has an appreciation of the freedoms we enjoy in the US.

[lundbaek]

Last I was aware, none of the 16 were doing anything in the way of learning about the US Constitution.