"The Julie Rowe Show" Podcasts

[Onsdag]

http://rexburg.org/rexburg-tabernacle

"The Rexburg Tabernacle was built in 1911, and served as meeting house for religious services until it was acquired by the City of Rexburg in 1980 and turned into a civic center."

Don't be fooled. The Church does not own the Tabernacle anymore and any usage of the facilities by Julie and others is not endorsement from the Church, or city of Rexburg for that matter. Though I'm sure those who are putting on this event are hoping to profit benefit from the honest (and naive) people who will wrongly ascribe such às endorsement and/or association with said entities. Same goes BYU catering. Yes, it's BYU-I, a Church owned school, but it's also a catering company - as in they will provide services as long as they are paid in compensation, as any other business would. This also should not be taken as endorsement, though as has been demonstrated already some people will perceive it as such. And I could almost certainly believe that the hosts of this event are banking counting on this happening, and thus why they are advertising them so prominently, so that they can increase their revenue attendance numbers.

[Matchmaker]

Regardless of whether she talks to the dead on a regular basis as she claims, or not, I've been listening to some of her podcasts. She is saying some things about the Church and its leaders, both past and present, and what they will be telling the members to do in the future and how they are going to be telling them, that shocks even me. She's stating adamantly that the Boston bombing was a false flag attack, and a few other wild statements, that are sure to bring the wrong kind of publicity to the Church and its members.

She's writing her fourth book now and is in the process of funding a documentary about her experiences. She's collecting money from various enterprises to fund her "Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund" to buy supplies for all the people who are going to be flooding into Utah, as if Deseret Industries and the other members won't help take care of these people. She states that the next earthquake in SLC is the catalyst that starts the tribulation which will last 7 years. I'm surprised she has not been disciplined by the Church for what she's doing. I think she has gone way over the line here.

Am I just an old fool who is jealous of her worldly success, or is something really wrong with what she is doing?

[Gage]

The only time I hear her mentioned is in here. Has this brought her a lot of "success" I wonder? I wonder how much she has made. How many books she has sold and how many people follow her or believe everything she says. She must be making a little because she keeps writing books. Its just for her though, for her own spirituality, but buy the books and it can help you too, its for me and my family but buy the books it can help you, its just for me but buy the books.

[iWriteStuff]

Am I just an old fool who is jealous of her worldly success, or is something really wrong with what she is doing?

I'd hardly call what she has "success".

As to right vs wrong, I suppose we will all be judged on intent as well as action. I don't think she intends to deceive or mislead. But it sure does look like it sometimes, doesn't it?

[EmmaLee]

As to right vs wrong, I suppose we will all be judged on intent as well as action. I don't think she intends to deceive or mislead. But it sure does look like it sometimes, doesn't it?

I thought that at first, too. But her subsequent, and continued, actions and proclamations (not to mention her full-on push to deprive struggling LDS people of their hard-earned cash) have disabused me of that idea.

[Arenera]

As to right vs wrong, I suppose we will all be judged on intent as well as action. I don't think she intends to deceive or mislead. But it sure does look like it sometimes, doesn't it?

I thought that at first, too. But her subsequent, and continued, actions and proclamations (not to mention her full-on push to deprive struggling LDS people of their hard-earned cash) have disabused me of that idea.

I read one of her books. Seems it has come to naught. Was I aiding and abetting?

[iWriteStuff]

As to right vs wrong, I suppose we will all be judged on intent as well as action. I don't think she intends to deceive or mislead. But it sure does look like it sometimes, doesn't it?

I thought that at first, too. But her subsequent, and continued, actions and proclamations (not to mention her full-on push to deprive struggling LDS people of their hard-earned cash) have disabused me of that idea.

I read one of her books. Seems it has come to naught. Was I aiding and abetting?

You're in good company. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, heck just take my wallet already.... :((

[EmmaLee]

As to right vs wrong, I suppose we will all be judged on intent as well as action. I don't think she intends to deceive or mislead. But it sure does look like it sometimes, doesn't it?

I thought that at first, too. But her subsequent, and continued, actions and proclamations (not to mention her full-on push to deprive struggling LDS people of their hard-earned cash) have disabused me of that idea.

I read one of her books. Seems it has come to naught. Was I aiding and abetting?

I don't know, were you? I read one of her books, too. We were talking about Rowe and what SHE is doing, so I'm not sure what the point of your question is.

[BackBlast]

I believe that we do more, accomplish more, by finding a cause we love and can support, and putting our efforts in a positive fashion. There are many good causes and efforts in the world that could use a helping hand, a kindly donation, a good word. The ripple effect from your positive contribution will far outweigh what can be done against all the evil in the world.

Occasionally there are enemies to fight. Debates that need a public stance where you can sway a few of the fence sitters in your circle. IMHO, Julie Rowe isn't one that 95% of us need concern ourselves with. If you know a fence sitter who is looking for your opinion, by all means, provide it. I doubt that description fits anyone here.

[EmmaLee]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

[AI2.0]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I will absolutely second that. I bought her first book (and no, I don't think buying her initial book is 'aiding and abetting' her) but I was mixed in my feelings about her claims. So much of what she said was straight out of church manuals, how could I not accept it, yet I still felt something was 'off' in her story. Finding out how deeply influenced she was by Energy healing caused me to be more suspicious (and that came up here on LDSFF by posters who shared their stories about Energy Healing in general) and then the work of Onsdag and Sarah to expose her participation on AVOW during the years before she wrote her first book and many of the inconsistencies in her book and her claims. That was all shared here on LDSFF and I'd say it has done a lot to point out her doings, we've consistently pointed out her predictions which have not come true and the changes she's made to her message and the evolving claims as she's moved into making her Greater Relief Fund the focus of her mission.

There's no question that discussions on this forum have had an influence and changed some people's minds. And as long as she continues to promote herself, now through another book and her podcasts-- I think it's worthwhile for posters on LDSFF to essentially hold her feet to the fire.

[Yahtzee]

I actually found this forum because I was searching for info on Julie Rowe. I had a similar experience to AI2.0, where something seemed off-but she quoted so much scripture and legit doctrine it was hard to put my finger on it.
So I've been very grateful for all the research and thought that has gone into those who want to make the truth known.
Plus, this is now a great place to hang out to learn more and better things.

[Matchmaker]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I will absolutely second that. I bought her first book (and no, I don't think buying her initial book is 'aiding and abetting' her) but I was mixed in my feelings about her claims. So much of what she said was straight out of church manuals, how could I not accept it, yet I still felt something was 'off' in her story. Finding out how deeply influenced she was by Energy healing caused me to be more suspicious (and that came up here on LDSFF by posters who shared their stories about Energy Healing in general) and then the work of Onsdag and Sarah to expose her participation on AVOW during the years before she wrote her first book and many of the inconsistencies in her book and her claims. That was all shared here on LDSFF and I'd say it has done a lot to point out her doings, we've consistently pointed out her predictions which have not come true and the changes she's made to her message and the evolving claims as she's moved into making her Greater Relief Fund the focus of her mission.

There's no question that discussions on this forum have had an influence and changed some people's minds. And as long as she continues to promote herself, now through another book and her podcasts-- I think it's worthwhile for posters on LDSFF to essentially hold her feet to the fire.

I'm concerned now about how much she has begun to sound more like a "Medium" on her podcasts than like a fellow LDS Sister who has had a spiritual experience, and how much self-promoting (self-aggrandizing) she is doing along with her push to solicit financial resources from her listeners for her GTRF. She's not just quoting scriptures or the words of the Prophets anymore, or paraphrasing the words of others who have written books about their NDEs prior to her books, she's accusing the Government, other Church members who disagree with her, and the "Gadiantons" of a slew of things that she probably can't prove, which reflects badly on her, as well as on the rest of the Church. I just wish someone in authority over her could have nipped this in the bud long before it got this far.

[BackBlast]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I stand corrected. Just seems on the harsh side to me.

[EmmaLee]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I stand corrected. Just seems on the harsh side to me.

To each their own. But 'harsh' (a subjective word, to be sure) to me is when someone is a fraud and is playing on people's fears and emotions for financial gain and personal (supposed) prestige/popularity. I wonder how someone like that answers the recommend interview question, "Are you honest in all your dealings with your fellowman?"

[BackBlast]

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I stand corrected. Just seems on the harsh side to me.

To each their own. But 'harsh' (a subjective word, to be sure) to me is when someone is a fraud and is playing on people's fears and emotions for financial gain and personal (supposed) prestige/popularity. I wonder how someone like that answers the recommend interview question, "Are you honest in all your dealings with your fellowman?"

To really understand the context of a person you have to know them really, really, really well. I'm not sure many of us really know anyone. I do believe that it is possible, in mortality, but it requires a highly developed set of observation skills and a lot of time in their company in a wide range of different contexts.

I would liken this unto the vision of the tree of life by Lehi and Nephi. The ones who were pointing fingers at others to mock and accuse were those in the great and spacious building, not the people holding onto the rod, moving to the tree, or partaking of the fruit. There is a role for correction and clarification of error, helping people come to and hold onto the rod. Such correction can easily become finger pointing and judgement and suddenly we find ourselves in the role of the accuser instead of the benevolent assistant we see ourselves as.

I'm somewhat sensitive to this because it has been a weakness of mine. To reach out and correct more often than is truly needful. I have attempted to reform myself when someone was very open with me and I really saw how hurtful it was to the recipient.

To bring this full circle. She sells books. There are a lot worse things you could do with $10 (or whatever the book price is), and there are a lot worse books you could be buying. Frankly, the monetary investment here is minimal unless someone goes deep into throwing money at the relief fund. The real issue is those who live in fear and anxiety who might not otherwise find themselves in those places if not exposed to that material. This is really a deeper issue than simply the material Julie Rowe has published. It happens to many people of our age about lots of topics. I think the solution will also come from an avenue that isn't simply sorting out what is true and what is not. It requires a fundamental shift in attitude and faith on the part of the person.

[EmmaLee]

She sells books. There are a lot worse things you could do with $10 (or whatever the book price is), and there are a lot worse books you could be buying. Frankly, the monetary investment here is minimal unless someone goes deep into throwing money at the relief fund.

You might want to read a few more threads that other people have started about Rowe and the extreme damage she is doing to families - MANY families - serious, covenant-breaking, family-destroying damage. You can argue, is it Rowe's fault? Not ultimately, as we all have our agency and she is not FORCING anyone to follow her nonsense. But she is a big facilitator of many of these situations people are finding themselves in when another family member becomes obsessed with Rowe and her cult (for lack of a better word - and yes, it is quite cult-like in many ways). I know of many dozens of accounts here on LDSFF, on AVOW, FB groups, and other forums, and with members of my ward and stake, of people postponing having children because of what Rowe says - postponing going on missions because of what Rowe says - postponing getting married because of what Rowe says - selling their homes and literally living in tents so they can be ahead of the curve because of what Rowe says - people buying so much prep equipment that they end up filing bankruptcy because of what Rowe says. I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea. This is not a minor problem for many people. Just because you personally aren't affected by her and what she has done/is doing/saying, doesn't mean a lot of other people haven't been, and aren't currently, being hurt - and many of these people find comfort and answers and even help in discussing this whole situation. If you're not interested in this subject, why do you keep posting on this thread? That is utterly baffling to me, when people do that, as it brings the thread up to the top where even MORE people will see it, but whatever.

The real issue is those who live in fear and anxiety who might not otherwise find themselves in those places if not exposed to that material. This is really a deeper issue than simply the material Julie Rowe has published. It happens to many people of our age about lots of topics. I think the solution will also come from an avenue that isn't simply sorting out what is true and what is not. It requires a fundamental shift in attitude and faith on the part of the person.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this point.

[AI2.0]

My responses in blue;

Welp, you would be wrong. Because several people have changed their minds about Rowe over the last year - from believing her, to now realizing that she is a fraud - right here on LDSFF. So I'm glad people gave their opinions, and that some people were swayed.

I stand corrected. Just seems on the harsh side to me.

To each their own. But 'harsh' (a subjective word, to be sure) to me is when someone is a fraud and is playing on people's fears and emotions for financial gain and personal (supposed) prestige/popularity. I wonder how someone like that answers the recommend interview question, "Are you honest in all your dealings with your fellowman?"

To really understand the context of a person you have to know them really, really, really well. I'm not sure many of us really know anyone. I do believe that it is possible, in mortality, but it requires a highly developed set of observation skills and a lot of time in their company in a wide range of different contexts.
But you've made a judgment about Emmalee and do you really know her well enough to do this? You've assumed that she's being overly harsh and so my suggestion to you would be that you first consider your own knowledge on Julie Rowe. Have you read many of the threads these past three years on Julie Rowe? Do you know why she's criticized, while many other NDE writers are not? Have you familiarized yourself with her radio interviews and her podcasts? Do you know what she's taken as her 'cause' and the predictions she's made over the years?
I would liken this unto the vision of the tree of life by Lehi and Nephi. The ones who were pointing fingers at others to mock and accuse were those in the great and spacious building, not the people holding onto the rod, moving to the tree, or partaking of the fruit. There is a role for correction and clarification of error, helping people come to and hold onto the rod. Such correction can easily become finger pointing and judgement and suddenly we find ourselves in the role of the accuser instead of the benevolent assistant we see ourselves as.
While some might 'point fingers and mock', what I've read is mostly serious concern. She's not a joke, she's too successful at what she does to be joke that people can simply write off. As Emmalee said, lives have been damaged by her influence. I don't think we are expected to ignore that damage people do, because we don't want to be accused of being 'harsh' or judgmental. What's that saying about evil flourishing when good people do nothing?
I'm somewhat sensitive to this because it has been a weakness of mine. To reach out and correct more often than is truly needful. I have attempted to reform myself when someone was very open with me and I really saw how hurtful it was to the recipient.

To bring this full circle. She sells books. There are a lot worse things you could do with $10 (or whatever the book price is), and there are a lot worse books you could be buying. Frankly, the monetary investment here is minimal unless someone goes deep into throwing money at the relief fund. The real issue is those who live in fear and anxiety who might not otherwise find themselves in those places if not exposed to that material. This is really a deeper issue than simply the material Julie Rowe has published. It happens to many people of our age about lots of topics. I think the solution will also come from an avenue that isn't simply sorting out what is true and what is not. It requires a fundamental shift in attitude and faith on the part of the person.

Actually, she does more than sell books. She's said herself that books don't make much money. Her efforts are now devoted to her charity-a 501-3C. That's where the money is and she's using her podcasts (she requests donations through it) and her energy healing (she claims she'll donate proceeds from her energy healing sessions to her charity) to raise donations to her charity. She's also putting out a fourth book,
which keeps her in the public eye and helps raise money for her charity.

[BackBlast]

But you've made a judgment about Emmalee and do you really know her well enough to do this?

I am not judging Emmalee as a person, I am making a limited judgement, and caution, of the collective actions found here in the forum culture. If you carefully look over my posts again, I believe this would be born out.

You've assumed that she's being overly harsh and so my suggestion to you would be that you first consider your own knowledge on Julie Rowe. Have you read many of the threads these past three years on Julie Rowe? Do you know why she's criticized, while many other NDE writers are not? Have you familiarized yourself with her radio interviews and her podcasts? Do you know what she's taken as her 'cause' and the predictions she's made over the years?

In my experience on this forum, while Julie Rowe gets more than most, nearly all other last days publishers are lumped into essentially the same bucket by the majority here. A bucket which I would label as 'false prophet, apostate'. Your claim of 'many other NDE writers are not' is not completely accurate, or at least skirts the issue. The genre is really last days publishers. Calling people false prophets and apostate is harsh. Occasionally it might even be true, that doesn't change that it's harsh. And it generally doesn't allow for them to change, for the better or worse.

For the rest, you see a fault and so you would publicly stone her? I know she has been inaccurate in some of what I have personally heard. I came back onto the prep scene late relative to her influence period.

I realize that I'm not being particular constructive here either myself, so let me change that. Why not simply publish an accurate account of her history and leave out the commentary on her probable character, origins of her material, and intent. Instead let others judge for themselves. IMHO I think this approach would help her more, be more kind, and yield to others the advice you wish to provide in a powerful less personal-opinionated way.

We could make it a forum project, just the documented facts, and make it quite detailed. I think it would provide a significant amount of value, we could even create a prediction dossier for every author who steps out in public. I could get behind that. I also think it would be important to keep the evidence bar high and keep hearsay out of it. To prefer actual audio files with valid transcripts to only notes kept at private meetings. Perhaps on a website with a wiki base system underneath. lds-last-days-author-prediction-tracker.org or some such. In fact, I'll go so far as to setup a suitable website and pay for the domain and hosting if there is enough interest here to pursue the project.

As to the charity. Ask for the books, or at least a summary of it's activities. Look for the fruits, be they good or evil, and publish those. If the books or a summary are not granted, publish that. I find the idea of a relief effort charity generally laudable. Though charities are notoriously abused in our world, looking at where the money actually goes is an important habit when looking for worthy charities to donate to. I'm personally leery of such donations unless the charity has a pretty good track record of judicious use of funds. I do not donate money, time, or blood to the red cross, for example. Doctors without borders has historically been much better. But now I'm off on a tangent... You get the idea.

[Gage]

Actually, she does more than sell books. She's said herself that books don't make much money. Her efforts are now devoted to her charity-a 501-3C. That's where the money is and she's using her podcasts (she requests donations through it) and her energy healing (she claims she'll donate proceeds from her energy healing sessions to her charity) to raise donations to her charity. She's also putting out a fourth book,
which keeps her in the public eye and helps raise money for her charity.


LOL, her charity is herself. Do you think she would admit that her books make a ton a money and then ask you for your money to support her charity. That wouldnt make much business sense now would it. I am guessing her charity is like the other bogus money making charities, yes you can donate to her charity but you are never made aware of the extremely high "administrative costs" involved. Oh and the outrageous salary the CEO takes home, Julie Rowe CEO. It takes a lot of money to run a charity dont you know. Julie Rowe raises money for herself and her family.

[lyanne7]

Actually in regards to that last comment about money from Julie Rowe's books....She really doesn't make much. Chad Daybell takes an extremely healthy cut. He actually profits more than she does. I have a friend who published with him...I read the contract and took it to a lawyer because it looked fishy. lets just say if Julie got the same contract, she got screwed, does not even own her own stories anymore Chad does. Julie dear if you read this, and I believe you are on here reading this...will you please have a lawyer look at the contract you signed with Chad... it totally sucks. Most people self publish and go through createspace with Amazon and get a much better profitable deal.
Oh and by the way i think Chad is a complete fraud. He spent years with certain people who had real NDE and never once did he discuss, or share his experiences or admit he had one. For myself who also had a brush with death and a short experience...if you really had such an experience you eagerly share and discuss with others who had as well. i find it suspect that Chad never told these people he had one. I for one am so sick of the fraud wannabee so called spiritual gurus desecrating and lying about sacred things. How can their conscience live with telling lies and know that God watches and hears it all. Why would anyone want to be a false prophet????? Life is tough enough.

[Onsdag]

My comments in blue within brackets.

For the rest, you see a fault and so you would publicly stone her? I know she has been inaccurate in some of what I have personally heard. I came back onto the prep scene late relative to her influence period.

[Speaking for myself (though I'm pretty sure my feelings are shared by several others around here), I have no desire or interest to "publicly stone her." Rather, the reason (or at least one of the reasons) why I point out the faults I see is because the Lord has spoken to us in these latter-days, saying:

"there are many spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world. And also Satan hath sought to deceive you, that he might overthrow you..., there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power;...And then received ye spirits which ye could not understand, and received them to be of God; and in this are ye justified? Behold ye shall answer this question yourselves; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto you; he that is weak among you hereafter shall be made strong. Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? And if it be by some other way it is not of God. And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? If it be some other way it is not of God. Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together. And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness. That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. And again, verily I say unto you, and I say it that you may know the truth, that you may chase darkness from among you;... Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God. And it shall be given unto you, power over that spirit; and you shall proclaim against that spirit with a loud voice that it is not of God— Not with railing accusation, that ye be not overcome, neither with boasting nor rejoicing, lest you be seized therewith. He that receiveth of God, let him account it of God; and let him rejoice that he is accounted of God worthy to receive. And by giving heed and doing these things which ye have received, and which ye shall hereafter receive—and the kingdom is given you of the Father, and power to overcome all things which are not ordained of him—" (Doctrine and Covenants, section 50)

You see, I have come to know for myself that Julie's works (and what I mean by 'works' is more specifically in regards to her books, radio interviews, podcasts, et. al which deal with her NDE, prognosticating the future, and her self-proclaimed mission involving sharing these things) are not of God. Therefore, as an Elder of Israel and fellow member of the Lord's Church, I have a vested interest in teaching truth and chasing darkness from among us so that I and my fellow saints may receive the kingdom of God.]

I realize that I'm not being particular constructive here either myself, so let me change that. Why not simply publish an accurate account of her history and leave out the commentary on her probable character, origins of her material, and intent. Instead let others judge for themselves. IMHO I think this approach would help her more, be more kind, and yield to others the advice you wish to provide in a powerful less personal-opinionated way.

[Out of curiosity, have you read this thread wherein I have further elaborated on what I have found wrong with her account and invited people to challenge and correct my findings? I'm still waiting for anyone to actually refute my findings. Sure, I add my own commentary, but I make extensive use of Julie's own words and compare it directly with the words of the Prophets and scripture, allowing people to judge for themselves and make up their own minds. As you will find from reading that thread some people have become convinced that Julie does not speak the truth, whereas others have become convinced that she does.]

We could make it a forum project, just the documented facts, and make it quite detailed. I think it would provide a significant amount of value, we could even create a prediction dossier for every author who steps out in public. I could get behind that. I also think it would be important to keep the evidence bar high and keep hearsay out of it. To prefer actual audio files with valid transcripts to only notes kept at private meetings. Perhaps on a website with a wiki base system underneath. lds-last-days-author-prediction-tracker.org or some such. In fact, I'll go so far as to setup a suitable website and pay for the domain and hosting if there is enough interest here to pursue the project.

[I'm all for that, and in fact have been slowly gathering materials together for such a project. What exactly do you have in mind though when you say just the 'documented facts?' Are you talking about predictions made specifically? Contradictions? Demonstrable lies? Something else? I absolutely agree that actual audio/video recordings, accurate transcripts, and unedited written materials with references is ideal.

However, I also think, in the case of Julie at least, some concessions must be made for personal notes and other 'hearsay' type material. You see, it is a verifiable and demonstrable fact that Julie (or someone else who has been given such power) has a history of purging and deleting certain posts and content (which could potentially be perceived as negative or harmful to her message) from her personal website and other websites. Also, Julie has specifically asked people to not record her during many of her firesides and so all's we have available is personal notes. She then asked people to send her all of their notes, which she then published several on her website and/or elsewhere. Even though she specifically says these are other people's notes and may or may not accurately reflect what she actually said, a few facts remain: 1)She posted the author's notes herself and therefore approved of it at some intrinsic level. 2)With rare exception (none that I have found thus far) these personal notes were in all likelihood taken and published by people who were in favor of her message and have no reason to misrepresent her. As such they had an interest in accurately recording what Julie said and/or what they perceived her message was, either for their own personal use or to share with others. Furthermore, there exists at least one audio recording of one of her firesides, for which I also have possession of several people's personal notes. We can transcribe the audio recording and compare it with the personal notes and see how accurately her message is presented in their notes. I'd be willing to bet, based on my reasoning above, that these personal notes fairly accurately represent the message Julie gave. Anyways, my point being, I do believe there should be room and allowance made for some 'hearsay' type material, though definitely not at the same level as the 'documented facts'.]

As to the charity. Ask for the books, or at least a summary of it's activities. Look for the fruits, be they good or evil, and publish those. If the books or a summary are not granted, publish that. I find the idea of a relief effort charity generally laudable. Though charities are notoriously abused in our world, looking at where the money actually goes is an important habit when looking for worthy charities to donate to. I'm personally leery of such donations unless the charity has a pretty good track record of judicious use of funds. I do not donate money, time, or blood to the red cross, for example. Doctors without borders has historically been much better. But now I'm off on a tangent... You get the idea.

[I'm all for charities generally and agree with you that the idea of a disaster relief program as being laudable. However, I have never shared this publicly before, but I once joined a charity and 'disaster relief' organization that eerily reminds me in many ways of Julie's organization, and I do wonder if at some level it is an outgrowth of that other one. Anyone who is familiar with "The Boys From The Mountains" (TBFTM) and Kenneth Moravec knows of what I'm talking about. Funny thing is Christopher Parrett, as I understand it, was instrumental in the leadership and organization of TBFTM before there was a nasty falling out with him and Moravec; and, as it so happens, Chris is also now closely connected with Julie Rowe... and so I wonder if there is more going on there with GTRF than meets the eyes...]

[BackBlast]

I'm all for that, and in fact have been slowly gathering materials together for such a project. What exactly do you have in mind though when you say just the 'documented facts?' Are you talking about predictions made specifically? Contradictions? Demonstrable lies? Something else? I absolutely agree that actual audio/video recordings, accurate transcripts, and unedited written materials with references is ideal.

However, I also think, in the case of Julie at least, some concessions must be made for personal notes and other 'hearsay' type material. You see, it is a verifiable and demonstrable fact that Julie (or someone else who has been given such power) has a history of purging and deleting certain posts and content (which could potentially be perceived as negative or harmful to her message) from her personal website and other websites.

I had not run into your detailed post. Excellent job, that is generally what I am getting at with a slightly different angle. I'm not inclined to detailed doctrinal vetting or judgments.

It is not hearsay if it is a first person account, that's a witness. Any further removed than that and it is inadmissible. So notes randomly found on the internet, inadmissible. Hey, guys, these are my father's/mother's/friend's notes: inadmissible. Named and identified witness speaks directly to an editor: admissible. Prefer at least 2-3 witnesses per claim, preferably from the same identified event. How does that sound?

[AI2.0]

I thought I'd share this here. I noticed this comment exchange on Julie Rowe's podcast--it is # 10 on the 'Call out'.

John Waters posted yesterday this message from the 1st Presidency in the comments section and then Eric Smith, the interviewer, responded:

To the Officers and members of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints:
From the days of Hiram Page (D&C 28), at different periods these have been manifestations from
delusive spirits to members of the Church. Sometimes these have come to men and
women who because of their transgression become easy prey to the Arch-Deceiver.
At other times people who pride themselves on their strict observance of the
rules and ordinances and ceremonies of the Church are led astray by false
spirits, who exercise an influence so imitative of that which proceeds from a
Divine source that even these persons, who think ‘they are the very elect’
(Matthew 24:24), find it difficult to discern the essential difference. Satan
himself has transformed himself to be apparently ‘an angel of light’ (2
Corinthians 11:14).

When visions, dreams, tongues, prophecy, impression or any extraordinary gift or inspiration
conveys something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the church or
contrary to the decisions of its constituted authorities, Latter-day Saints may
know that it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear. Also, they
could understand that directions for the guidance of the Church will come, by
revelation, through the head. All faithful members are entitled to the
inspiration of the Holy Spirit for themselves, their families, and for those
over whom they are appointed and ordained to preside. Bu anything at discord with
that which comes from God through the head of the Church is not to be received
as authoritative or reliable. In secular as well as spiritual affairs, Saints
may receive Divine guidance and revelation affecting themselves, but this does
not convey authority to direct others, and is not to be accepted when contrary
to Church covenants, doctrine or discipline, or to known facts, demonstrated
truths, or good common sense. No person has the right to induce his fellow
members of the Church to engage in speculations or take stock in ventures of
any kind on the specious claim of Divine revelation or vision or dream,
especially when it is in opposition to the voice of recognized authority, local
or general. The Lord’s Church ‘is a house of order' (D&C 132:8). It is not governed by individual gifts or
manifestations, but by the order and power of the Holy Priesthood as sustained
by the voice and vote of the Church in its appointed conferences.
The history of the Church records many pretended revelations by impostors or zealots who believed
in the manifestations they sought to lead other persons to accept, and in every
instance, disappointment, sorrow and disaster have resulted therefrom.
Financial loss and sometimes utter ruin have followed. We feel it our duty to
warn the Latter-day Saints against fake mining schemes which have no warrant
for success beyond the professed spiritual manifestations of their projectors
and the influence gained over the excited minds of their victims. We caution the Saints against investing money
or property in shares of stock which bring no profit to anyone but those who
issue and trade in them. Financial schemes to make money for the alleged
purpose of ‘redeeming Zion’ or providing means for the ‘salvation of the dead’
or other seemingly worthy objects, should not deceive anyone acquainted with
the order of the Church, and will result only in waste of time and labor, which
might be devoted now to doing something tangible and worthy and of record on
earth and in heaven.”
(Messages from the
First Presidency, [Pres. Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, Charles W. Penrose]
compiled by James R. Clark [Bookcraft, 1970] Vol. 4 pp. 285-86)
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Eric Smith
Eric Smith1 day ago
John Waters. I'd like to take the opportunity to respond to the recent campaign you have launched on Julie Rowe's YouTube channel, which seems to have been designed to discredit her visionary experiences. First I should say that YouTube blocked several of your messages and classified them as Spam, presumably because you wrote the same message on at least twenty of Julie's podcast episodes. For future reference, I might suggest another venue for spreading messages like yours. Many people start blogs to fight or oppose things they do not believe in with likely greater odds of success than through commenting.

I have learned the value of standing for something, rather than standing against something. That is one of the reasons I have chosen to help promote Julie's message.

I respect your choice to copy the text of a First Presidency letter and share it on Julie's YouTube channel. On the other hand, I would have much rather preferred you to delineate cases where you believe Julie Rowe was in violation of any of the points mentioned in the letter, if that was your intention at all; unfortunately, your position wasn't stated in any way, so I'm left wondering specifically what it is you were trying to infer, and how to respond to your campaign.

Therefore, I'd like to ask you some questions. Have you read Julie's books? Have you listened to her radio shows? Have you listened to each of the podcast episodes that you have published this letter on? If not, I would encourage you to do so. The LDS church teaches that we must first study things out in our minds, and then ask if it be right (D&C 9:8).

If you answered no on the previous questions, I might ask if you at least asked the Lord in sincere prayer, with real intent (Moroni 10:4) if Julie actually experiences the things she claims. If you did not do that then I might suggest with all due respect that you may not believe some of the basic doctrines of the church that 1) God's children have the right to receive revelation (as Julie has experienced, and which you may experience if you ask); and 2) that spiritual gifts like visions, prophecy, revelation, tongues etc (see Article of Faith #7) are effective in the lives of believers.

I encourage you to study the strong warning Mormon issued against those who despise the gifts of God (Mormon 9:7-8). John, do you despise the gifts of God?

I have spent hundreds of hours researching the significance of the doctrines of the gospel regarding gifts of the spirit, prophetic warnings from both prophets who hold the prophetic office, and those with prophetic gifts (See Dallin H. Oaks' talk "Spiritual Gifts") and have prayed sincerely as Moroni, and many other prophets have advised concerning the truthfulness of messages like Julie's, and others'. Consider Moses, Paul, Moroni, Joseph Smith, and other prophets' words concerning spiritual gifts, and specifically the spirit of prophecy. Also consider the "many prophets" mentioned in 1 Nephi Chapter 1, and the "many prophets" referred to in Ether just before times of destruction.
While I love the letter you referenced within this YouTube channel, if it was your intent to discredit Julie and her message using that letter, I'm afraid it was a failed effort because it has no context without comments from you. But since you brought it up, as I consider each of the points in the letter and apply them to Julie's message, I can verify with confidence that she does not stand guilty on the least point. Or maybe that was the point you were trying to make?

More research on your part might have shown that Julie is a member in good standing in the church. She and her husband hold respectful callings, and regularly attend the temple. Her church leaders are aware of her gifts. Under different circumstances, I believe you and nearly anyone would find out what a remarkable person Julie is - and I dare say, you would likely feel badly for any comment or effort you ever made to discredit her gifts. You would surely also find out what strong faith she has in Jesus Christ, what remarkable spiritual gifts she has, and how readily she meets the Savior's counsel that "Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16), and that her fruits are indeed good.

If you respond to each of my questions concerning your research efforts, I'll gladly post future comments from you. Until then,
Your friend, Eric.
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I was surprised that they allowed the comment to stand and Eric responded, I'm glad that he allowed for criticisms to be published.

[mirkwood]

I'm surprised too, that is quite unusual from the call out crowd.