"The Julie Rowe Show" Podcasts

[capctr]

Okay, 'fess up, you people who are writing anti-Rowe posts (those not believing her). Ebenezerarise said you guys follow Denver Snuffer, or at least the majority of you do, but I don't see one person posting here, in skepticism, who listens to DS or, if they do happen to hear or read him, believes anything he says. (Thought I'd nip it in the bud. And, please, any skeptics who write after this is posted, please confess if you are in the DS crowd. I'll confess that I'm in that crowd, but I don't ever recall posting about JR in support or in contempt, though I probably read this type of thread far too often.)

I never said that! I said some of the DS crowd beat up on JR, too. It's a hobby around these parts.

Well, for one, you never used the word 'some', you actually said 'a lot'--there is a difference in the meaning of these words. And you're apparently STILL not backing away from suggesting that Julie Rowe critics are also Snufferites, which is what I took issue with.

For the record, this is what you said:

Re: Are there still "Snufferites" here?

Postby ebenezerarise » Wed May 10, 2017 6:35 pm

They're all still here. Every last one of them. Maybe a few names have changed, maybe some lurk and a few misrepresent themselves as something else. But they are still here. Waiting....for something... to happen... that might validate them.

When they get bored a lot of them like to beat up Julie Rowe.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=45471




Back when you wrote it, I questioned you on your statement, giving examples of those who've spoken critically of JR, and pointing out that not one of them was a known 'Snufferite' or even showed signs of being a closet 'Snufferite'. You provided nothing to back up what you'd said--not even an example of a single known 'snufferite' (let alone 'a lot' of them) who 'likes to beat up on Julie Rowe when they are bored'. And now, on another thread, you're still trying to defend this? Wouldn't it have just been easier to admit that you may have been wrong to equate Julie Rowe critics with Snufferites?

Am I belaboring this? Yes, I certainly am. But I do so because I don't appreciate the implication you've created that since I'm critical of Julie Rowe I must be a Snufferite. I suspect others don't want that label either.

JR is either evil, deceived, or psychotic(maybe all three).
DS...is all three. I find it difficult to fathom either of them still have followers.

[ebenezerarise]

Am I belaboring this? Yes, I certainly am. But I do so because I don't appreciate the implication you've created that since I'm critical of Julie Rowe I must be a Snufferite. I suspect others don't want that label either.

Wee bit insecure, ain't ya?

[EmmaLee]

Not anymore! I am currently a member on AVOW, and several pro-Snuffer posts have been made lately with nary a word of protest or rebuke from Mr. Parrett (or any other mods). And the pro-Snuffer posters are still there, posting away. Even a few months ago, I would have said the same thing you did, SP; but times they are a'changin'.

I'm wondering if his name is mentioned, though. I mean, for example, if someone started a thread on having their calling and election made sure, or on an experience with seeing Jesus, I would not call that a Snuffer teaching. Both things have been taught in the LDS Church for well over a century. It is only within the last 20 or so years that those teachings have fallen out of favor. There are many, many people who have had experiences with heaven, including seeing the Lord and/or having their calling and election made sure who don't even have a clue who DS is. I think that just because someone discusses a gospel principle that used to be taught by Joseph Smith, it does not follow that they are pro-Denver.

Now, if they are teaching that Denver said this or that, and they are giving links to his blog, I can see how that would be pro-Snuffer. If they are quoting from his books or talks, I can see how that would be pro-Snuffer. But if they happen to be talking about a doctrine that existed in this Church before Denver was a member, even before Denver was born, and was a doctrine even after he joined, I fail to see how that makes them pro-DS.

The posts I'm referring to on AVOW mention Denver Snuffer by name, and a few of his books, by name - they were made in the last month - they spoke very positively of him and of 'some' of his teachings - none of the posts were removed - none of the people who made them were banned. The 3-4 posts I'm talking about were very positive toward Snuffer - and again, they were very clear who they were talking about because they used his name - DENVER SNUFFER. Don't know how to say it any more simply and straightforward than that.

[EmmaLee]

Next time I have a spare moment, I'll try and find those posts on AVOW - the ones that mention Denver Snuffer by name in a positive way. AVOW has WAY more - many thousands more - members, and active members, than LDSFF does, so there are countless posts every day - it's doubtful I will come across them - have no idea what threads they were in or who made them. Should have known better than to mention it here without physical proof, and even then someone would still say it wasn't so.

[Spider]

Is anyone here listening to JR's podcasts?

[shadow]

Is anyone here listening to JR's podcasts?

I'm not.

[DesertWonderer]

Is anyone here listening to JR's podcasts?

I've listened to most of them. They are horrifying.

So much false doctrine I can't begin to list it, tin-foil hat conspiracies, she back-tracks a ton, more encounters with evil spirits, Isaiah is a new spirit guide, she talks w animals, she talked to Jesus at 3 yrs old, she's now had DOZENS of NDEs, emotion code, she was "triggered" by the Wonder Woman movie (i.e. she has special powers from the Divine that she is now realizing), the level of detail of future events is astounding--too bad John the Revelator or JS or Nephi, etc didn't see that much detail but I digress, She again copies material from VoG, SM, Edgar Casey and others, The City of Enoch is coming back to the Gulf of Mexico from where it was taken...BUT I must admit it was entertaining :ymdevil:

[AI2.0]

Is anyone here listening to JR's podcasts?

I think I've listened to about five of them now.
I agree with Desertwonderer, she's really 'out there'--I'd say that's why they are entertaining, but for sure, alarming. As I've listened, things have struck me as strange, false etc, but I wasn't in a position to write them down to share here.

One was about her seeing God and Jesus Christ too (like Joseph Smith jr) but she said she didn't share this in her book, because it was 'too sacred'. Yet, I'm listening to her share this information on an internet podcast???? So, how is it no longer 'too sacred' to share with the world but it was 'too sacred' to share with a few thousands readers? She's inconsistent. I think she shares this now because she believes it gives her credibility with her listeners.

Another was her criticizism of LDS members for only listening to their LDS prophets. I'll have to try to find the reference for where that one was--I don't remember which podcast it was, but to me it was a big red flag. Maybe someone else heard it and can tell which podcast it was on.

As Desert wonderer said, she borrows heavily from others. As I listened the thought came that she's not sharing anything I haven't already heard from other sources.

And, I'm going to get this on the record before Julie Rowe can make a prediction and try to claim that John or Joan or Isaiah told her about this. I just read (June 22, 2017) on Redstate.com that there have been hundreds of small earthquakes in June near Yellowstone and there is fear it will disrupt the caldera there and bring about an eruption of a super volcano. Just in case she tries to pass this off as something she was warned about-- the super volcano causing problems for the states around it--it was reported on in the news, no need for a heavenly messenger to warn about it.

[Onsdag]

Another was her criticizism of LDS members for only listening to their LDS prophets. I'll have to try to find the reference for where that one was--I don't remember which podcast it was, but to me it was a big red flag. Maybe someone else heard it and can tell which podcast it was on.

https://youtu.be/-eNifvk0u2w?t=2605

Not sure if this is it, but in episode #6 (starting at 43:25) she does address the LDS audience about the callout belief, Prophets, and chastises members for not reading their Bibles. She goes on to claim that Jeremiah was the Prophet at the time Lehi took his family and fled into the wilderness. She is, essentially, comparing herself (specifically) and other callout believers with Lehi's family whereas our living Prophet would be comparable with Jeremiah in the story. A few points on these claims:

• Funny thing is, this is the same exact argument many apostates (such as the remnant crowd) have used to justify their apostasy - they'll liken themselves to Prophets such as Samuel the Lamanite, Lehi, Alma Sr., etc., and claim (despite evidence to the contrary) that these people weren't actually Prophets and had no authority to lead/teach their people and therefore these apostates have the right to follow their own path instead of following the living Prophets. I find it rather telling that she's using the same arguments as these people to justify and validate her own beliefs, and can't help but wonder if she's picking these teachings up from their influence.

• I thought according to the callout crowd (and especially Julie herself) that it's the Prophet who issues the call to gather/flee. So why is it that now she's distancing herself from this view and providing justification that they can quietly disappear and leave without authorization from the Prophet - as her story of Lehi and Jeremiah illustrates?

• She insinuates (through her story of Jeremiah) that our living Prophet's role is only to testify of the wickedness of the people and to also perish with said wicked people, whereas her role (through the story of Lehi) is to help lead the righteous to safety and to a promised land. Personally, I find this all rather offensive.

[Yahtzee]

Is anyone here listening to JR's podcasts?

I think I've listened to about five of them now.
I agree with Desertwonderer, she's really 'out there'--I'd say that's why they are entertaining, but for sure, alarming. As I've listened, things have struck me as strange, false etc, but I wasn't in a position to write them down to share here.

One was about her seeing God and Jesus Christ too (like Joseph Smith jr) but she said she didn't share this in her book, because it was 'too sacred'. Yet, I'm listening to her share this information on an internet podcast???? So, how is it no longer 'too sacred' to share with the world but it was 'too sacred' to share with a few thousands readers? She's inconsistent. I think she shares this now because she believes it gives her credibility with her listeners.

Another was her criticizism of LDS members for only listening to their LDS prophets. I'll have to try to find the reference for where that one was--I don't remember which podcast it was, but to me it was a big red flag. Maybe someone else heard it and can tell which podcast it was on.

As Desert wonderer said, she borrows heavily from others. As I listened the thought came that she's not sharing anything I haven't already heard from other sources.

And, I'm going to get this on the record before Julie Rowe can make a prediction and try to claim that John or Joan or Isaiah told her about this. I just read (June 22, 2017) on Redstate.com that there have been hundreds of small earthquakes in June near Yellowstone and there is fear it will disrupt the caldera there and bring about an eruption of a super volcano. Just in case she tries to pass this off as something she was warned about-- the super volcano causing problems for the states around it--it was reported on in the news, no need for a heavenly messenger to warn about it.

I hope she says it's imminent.

[AI2.0]

Another was her criticizism of LDS members for only listening to their LDS prophets. I'll have to try to find the reference for where that one was--I don't remember which podcast it was, but to me it was a big red flag. Maybe someone else heard it and can tell which podcast it was on.

https://youtu.be/-eNifvk0u2w?t=2605

Not sure if this is it, but in episode #6 (starting at 43:25) she does address the LDS audience about the callout belief, Prophets, and chastises members for not reading their Bibles. She goes on to claim that Jeremiah was the Prophet at the time Lehi took his family and fled into the wilderness. She is, essentially, comparing herself (specifically) and other callout believers with Lehi's family whereas our living Prophet would be comparable with Jeremiah in the story. A few points on these claims:

• Funny thing is, this is the same exact argument many apostates (such as the remnant crowd) have used to justify their apostasy - they'll liken themselves to Prophets such as Samuel the Lamanite, Lehi, Alma Sr., etc., and claim (despite evidence to the contrary) that these people weren't actually Prophets and had no authority to lead/teach their people and therefore these apostates have the right to follow their own path instead of following the living Prophets. I find it rather telling that she's using the same arguments as these people to justify and validate her own beliefs, and can't help but wonder if she's picking these teachings up from their influence.

• I thought according to the callout crowd (and especially Julie herself) that it's the Prophet who issues the call to gather/flee. So why is it that now she's distancing herself from this view and providing justification that they can quietly disappear and leave without authorization from the Prophet - as her story of Lehi and Jeremiah illustrates?

• She insinuates (through her story of Jeremiah) that our living Prophet's role is only to testify of the wickedness of the people and to also perish with said wicked people, whereas her role (through the story of Lehi) is to help lead the righteous to safety and to a promised land. Personally, I find this all rather offensive.

Yes, that's it, thank you for finding that and posting it. And I recognized the same thing you did, that she was making a justification for people like herself to be 'prophets' at the same time as President Monson and our Quorum of 12 and encouraging people to listen to those who have no authority to speak out to the collective members of the church.

The 'call out' and Energy healing have always been what makes Julie Rowe's claims more of a concern to me than some of the other LDS last days/NDE books I've read. I think if you listen to her podcasts you can see what's wrong with her claims and the way she's setting herself up to be a leader and 'prophet'. Her belief and promotion of Energy healing (and you hear it in some of her comments on the podcasts) is a clear indicator that she's following after false teachings. The call out, as she's promoted it in her first book, is morphing so that she can attempt to use scripture to bolster it.

I'm listening to #10 "The Gathering: Safety in the 'Call out'.

It's clear to anyone who read her first book that she's changing what she initially claimed, because now she's attempting to claim that her initial 'call out' claim is also 'The Gathering' which most LDS are very familiar with. For LDS members who have not studied the Gospel much (other than in Sunday School or seminary) they can be misguided by her claims and her appeal to LDS teachings. She's mixing up teachings and scriptures to make claims that if you don't have a sound understanding, you can be deceived.

one example, she's talking about water 'cleansing the area' in her area where she lives--and used the term 'living water', then appeals to scriptures and Joseph Smith. I can only assume she's talking about water flowing out from the temple in Jerusalem, but that's in Israel.



One thing that keeps impressing on my mind as I listen is that Julie speaks with authority, when she has NONE. She has this way of giving out a lot of information and saying it in such a way that she sounds so sure of it--I can see why some are taken in by her, but to me, it's false. Her ideas are not new, they are lifted from many sources, but I'd say she doesn't have a sound foundation of gospel knowledge--only what she's read of other peoples' works. That's the danger of her message and why she is successful at deceiving others into believing that she is a prophet and here to warn others. She 'sounds good' but what she says is 'off'.

[Gage]

Julie is able to deceive some Mormons because they know nothing about the Gospel or the scriptures because they have never read them. members that marry into the church can be more easily deceived because they were taught that Mormons are good people and would never deceive or fraud anyone. Those that grew up in the Church know this to be anything but the truth. Since most Mormons study and practice the Gospel of Gain and do not know much of the Gospel of Christ, a fraud like Julie can twist a couple scriptures to fit her agenda and those members then become smitten with her. When people make comments about "how in the world can Julie deceive good and faithful Mormons", well she is deceiving people that are just members of the Mormon church- for social reasons or to get gain, etc. not the ones that know the Gospel.

[AI2.0]

Julie is able to deceive some Mormons because they know nothing about the Gospel or the scriptures because they have never read them. members that marry into the church can be more easily deceived because they were taught that Mormons are good people and would never deceive or fraud anyone. Those that grew up in the Church know this to be anything but the truth. Since most Mormons study and practice the Gospel of Gain and do not know much of the Gospel of Christ, a fraud like Julie can twist a couple scriptures to fit her agenda and those members then become smitten with her. When people make comments about "how in the world can Julie deceive good and faithful Mormons", well she is deceiving people that are just members of the Mormon church- for social reasons or to get gain, etc. not the ones that know the Gospel.

I wish I could agree, but since you paint with such a broad brush it is hard to do so.

I don't believe 'most Mormons study and practice the Gospel of Gain'. That's pretty cynical and not true in my experience. Most of the LDS I know are good people striving to live right. They are often weak and troubled, but they are not purposely selfish or lying. Maybe you run in different circles, but the LDS I associate with are not like the one's you describe. Those kind exist, but they are not the majority--as in 'most'.

Unfortunately, Gage, you seem have a jaded view of the Saints and it comes through in some of your comments. Julie Rowe is an anomaly, she's atypical of LDS. Those who listen to her and believe her, do so for various reasons. But, I agree, it's more likely that she can deceive people if they have a limited knowledge of the Gospel. However, I disagree that 'members who marry into the church can be more easily deceived'...I don't think converts are more likely to be deceived. Some converts know the gospel and are more able to judge character than life long saints, so I think that's an unfair assumption.

Also your statement 'she is deceiving people that are just members of the Mormon church-for social reasons or to get gain, etc. not the ones that know the Gospel' is also WAY TOO broad for me to agree with. When the scriptures say that even the very 'elect' are in danger of being deceived, they are not referring to those who are members for social reasons or to get gain. I believe the warning is to those who are striving to be 'saints'-- sincere, believing people who are trying very hard to be righteous and live the gospel. Being deceived isn't just a concern for lack luster, lazy members. I think Denver Snuffer appealed to many who were very stalwart and wanting MORE from the church of the meat and got impatient that they weren't being spiritually fed among their fellow Saints who weren't at the same level spiritually that they felt they were. I think they felt their fellow brothers and sisters in the Gospel were holding them back.

[Gage]

I should not of said "most" I am not trying to bash Mormons, I have been one since birth, I was taught the Gospel and testify to the truth of it. I am just trying to understand how someone can be a member of the Church one day and the next you dont believe or you now follow Julie Rowe. I cannot see how someone can just stop believing. How can someone quit the Church because the church "hates gays". The only explanation I can come up with is these members never believed to begin with. They were members for reasons other than a testimony of the Gospel.

[AI2.0]

I should not of said "most" I am not trying to bash Mormons, I have been one since birth, I was taught the Gospel and testify to the truth of it. I am just trying to understand how someone can be a member of the Church one day and the next you dont believe or you now follow Julie Rowe. I cannot see how someone can just stop believing. How can someone quit the Church because the church "hates gays". The only explanation I can come up with is these members never believed to begin with. They were members for reasons other than a testimony of the Gospel.

If you've been a member since birth, I'm sure you've seen lots of people leave the church over the years. Unfortunately people can and do change from having a strong testimony of the Gospel and later losing it. A testimony has to be nurtured and strengthened and when this isn't done, it can fade away or become weak and easily destroyed. I know people who bore strong testimony but years later, left the church, saying at that point, they didn't even know if God existed. If you read Alma 12:9-11 and I think you can why this phenomenon happens.

As for why some members will quit the church because it 'hates gays'. It's an excuse to make a statement, IMO--they know we don't 'hate gays'--if a person spends any time in our church, they know we are not taught to 'hate' anyone.

There are many reasons people go inactive, but not all lose their testimonies. Some are inactive but still believe (because they do have a testimony but t he 'flesh' is weak), I often see this among those who struggle with addictions and other word of wisdom problems and lifestyle choices (like living with someone) . However, we do see many who become inactive because they were never truly converted in the first place. I believe that people join the church for different reasons. Not all actually receive a true testimony of the Gospel or the Book of Mormon, but they may feel that it is true and want to join, but then the 'seed' that was planted in their heart isn't deeply planted and it withers and dies before having a chance to deepen and grow. My husband and I work with a lot of less actives in our calling and we've both come to the conclusion that for a lot of people, the problem is that they really don't have a true, profound witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or the Gospel, or that Joseph Smith jr. was a prophet and actually restored the church. They liked the idea of these things and thought they sounded right, at the time, but that's not enough to carry someone through the storms and trials of life.

I've found that those who believe Julie Rowe are active, believing LDS. So far, she hasn't made them make a choice between the church and her, so active LDS can also believe her claims with no difficulty. The problem would arise if she were to come in conflict with the church leadership and her supporters were forced to make a choice-as Denver Snuffer's supporters were forced to do. We know what happened, many left the church, taking Snuffer's side. It's not to that yet, for her followers though. Many of them refuse to see the problems with Julie Rowe's claims--they insist she's just sharing her dreams and visions and she doesn't consider herself a prophet and one who has authority. But the podcasts show the truth. Personally, I think that her podcasts could get her in trouble, because they clearly show how she views herslef--her revelatory 'gifts' and her mission to warn the world (and LDS members) and that she speaks as one having authority.

Bishop Koyle's experience is a good example of what could happen to Julie Rowe. If you ask me, it's just a matter of time before she's questioned by her church leaders and probably will be told she needs to stop her evangelizing and predicting future events or face church discipline.

[Spider]

Thanks for all your comments above. Her comments sound pretty alarming. Do you think she has more than 500 - 1,000 followers at this time? I bet her followers at this time are pretty small in numbers.

[AI2.0]

Thanks for all your comments above. Her comments sound pretty alarming. Do you think she has more than 500 - 1,000 followers at this time? I bet her followers at this time are pretty small in numbers.

If you look at the number of views on her podcasts, they are around 11,500 total as of a couple of days ago. Considering she only started this a few weeks ago, that's a great start. Granted, many who watch are like me, they are not all her followers, some listen because we don't believe her claims and still want to know what she's up to.


The more I listen the more alarmed I am by her claims. I was listening to her #13 show--'What I see in the Midwest', just at the beginning as she introduces her topic and talks about what she'll be sharing of what she sees in the future in different parts of the world, the thought hit me that Julie Rowe is styling herself as a "mormon psychic'. If she continues, she's going to be told to stop by church leaders. She's crossing the line, IMO.

The more I listen the more I'm certain she's a fraud, by that, I mean she's not what she claims to be.

[AI2.0]

Another point spider, She says that she receives dozens of emails every day asking her questions. I believe this. She's probably feeling that the podcasts are going to net her more of an audience than she has now and it will most likely keep growing. People want to hear these messages. They want to feel they are being told about future events. The problem with Julie is that she's never been right yet and still people listen to her. She's also working to make her message fit a wider audience, outside Mormon circles.

[DesertWonderer]

The main reason she has gone to the podcast format is that no radio stations will give her airtime anymore. They tend to do that when everything you said would happen did not.

[iWriteStuff]

Another point spider, She says that she receives dozens of emails every day asking her questions. I believe this. She's probably feeling that the podcasts are going to net her more of an audience than she has now and it will most likely keep growing. People want to hear these messages. They want to feel they are being told about future events. The problem with Julie is that she's never been right yet and still people listen to her. She's also working to make her message fit a wider audience, outside Mormon circles.

This episode reminds me of Saul going to the witch of Endor for revelation after Samuel the prophet died...

1 Sam. 28:6-8
6 And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 ¶Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, a woman that hath a familiar spirit at En-dor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night.

The key difference, of course, is that the witch happened to be right. #-o

Why are members seeking her out for spiritual answers or predictions of the future? Why don't they go to The Lord and receive a personal witness?

[AI2.0]

Another point spider, She says that she receives dozens of emails every day asking her questions. I believe this. She's probably feeling that the podcasts are going to net her more of an audience than she has now and it will most likely keep growing. People want to hear these messages. They want to feel they are being told about future events. The problem with Julie is that she's never been right yet and still people listen to her. She's also working to make her message fit a wider audience, outside Mormon circles.

This episode reminds me of Saul going to the witch of Endor for revelation after Samuel the prophet died...

1 Sam. 28:6-8
6 And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 ¶Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, a woman that hath a familiar spirit at En-dor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night.

The key difference, of course, is that the witch happened to be right. #-o

Why are members seeking her out for spiritual answers or predictions of the future? Why don't they go to The Lord and receive a personal witness?

Good question. I don't know why believing LDS would go to her, but apparently they do. I'm not a member of AVOW, but I bet that on her private, pay to view forum within a forum, she also has many asking her questions.

She's basically acting as a kind of psychic when people ask her to tell of the future and give them spiritual guidance. Because she's consulting her spirit guides and her visions and NDE's. I'm not sure why she has any credibility though, since she's not made any predictions which have come true.

[EmmaLee]

Why are members seeking her out for spiritual answers or predictions of the future? Why don't they go to The Lord and receive a personal witness?

Probably for the same reason some people would rather be on welfare than have a job. Pretty much all boils down to the same thing.

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-of ... y?lang=eng

[jessie08]

I am shocked that anyone in any way shape or form is still giving one once of observation to this woman. That being said I have been to the FLDS community where they still follow Jeffs even when much of their community has abandon his evil teachings. It shows me that there will always be those who willingly want to be deceived that they might either feel important or keep their head in the sand as not to have to follow true and living prophets that do not havea sexier more disaster related message. As for me and mine we will serve the Lord and not be swayed by the false prophets of the world no matter how exciting the
message. Wake up.

[Silver Pie]

.
Note who the "special appearance" is -

image.png (645.35 KiB) Viewed 1933 times

[Older/wiser?]

I find the above "Preparing a People Conference," could be confusing to many latterday saints. It looks Church Sanctioned or even put on by the church as it is held in the Rexburg Tabernalce, catered by BYU catering . Those things seem designed to give it credibility, yet Julie Rowe makes a special appearance. The others well I am only familiar with Shelley McDermott, and I got the impression she was a great salesperson. It is a day and age where we should know for Ourselves the spirit with which a message is delivered, not the frenzy of other " Enlightened last days Specialist". Some of the above speakers maybe fine, but this gives the appearance of being on equal footing with time out for women. I believe in preparing, studying, looking for the signs of his coming, so as not to be found sleeping. I am also very aware of the spirit of apostasy that seems to be over taking so many . The copies coming so close to the truth as to even deceive the noble and great. Pres. Uchtdorf stated " doubt your doubt before you doubt your faith",that seems pretty sound advise, and where many get into trouble, being tossed by a seed of doubt.