How do People Get Exocommunicated?

[Z2100]

This might be a touchy subject for someone. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get excommunicated?

For men, is it more serious than for women, since they hold the priesthood? Are things handled at a Stake level or a Ward level? Are both genders treated equally in the process?

I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices to obviously get the boot?

While we all have our weaknesses in mortality, why would we want to do something very sinful? Yes, we could have a cursing addiction or a pornography addiction and repent, but fornication goes way across the line. By the way, beside apostasy, rape, etc. are there any "unique" or "unusual" sins you can commit?

[Rose Garden]

I believe it's a different process for women and priesthood-holding men. I think women can be excommunicated by their bishops but men are tried by the high counsel of their stake. (I might be wrong about that.)

Of my friends who were excommunicated, three (from the same family) were excommunicated for polygamy, and three other separate individuals were excommunicated for apostasy, and one never said why but implied adultery.

There are many reasons why a person would do things in their older years after living a clean life when they were younger. The central reason is that their heart is not in the right place. You can live a clean life for decades but never be truly converted to the Lord. Without a heart-deep conviction, you are bound to give in to the pressures of this life eventually.

[Robin Hood]

Excommunication is less common these days.
In my experience only those who are unrepentant are excommunicated. Disfellowshipment and formal probation are nearly always the way it goes for repentant sinners, if disciplinary proceedings are deemed necessary. I have found this is the general approach except for sins for which excommunication is mandatory ie. incest, murder, paedophilia etc.
Apostasy tends to result in excommunication as the apostate is unrepentant from the church's viewpoint.

[Gage]

Just because someone says they lived faithfully does not mean they live faithfully. Maybe she just finally got caught. The "sinning" can sometimes begin when the person gets older, or moves out of the parents watchful eyes and rules. Just because someone grows up in the church does not mean they will always do good and live righteous or does it mean they always lived righteously. I know many church members that should be excommunicated, the ones that get excommunicated are the ones that get caught.

[Z2100]

Just because someone says they lived faithfully does not mean they live faithfully. Maybe she just finally got caught. The "sinning" can sometimes begin when the person gets older, or moves out of the parents watchful eyes and rules. Just because someone grows up in the church does not mean they will always do good and live righteous or does it mean they always lived righteously. I know many church members that should be excommunicated, the ones that get excommunicated are the ones that get caught.

This makes sense

[Lizzy60]

This might be a touchy subject for someone and I don't mean to offend you in any way. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get exocoummincated? I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices. Excommunication is not a happy thing and we must refrain from choosing that path. Does anyone have stories of anyone or scriptures or teachings of prophets? And how do people get exocummincated? Does the bishop just tell them or do they get a letter from the First Presidency?

You have spelled "excommunicated" 4 different ways in your OP. Hint -- the spelling in the title is not correct.

[Z2100]

This might be a touchy subject for someone and I don't mean to offend you in any way. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get exocoummincated? I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices. Excommunication is not a happy thing and we must refrain from choosing that path. Does anyone have stories of anyone or scriptures or teachings of prophets? And how do people get exocummincated? Does the bishop just tell them or do they get a letter from the First Presidency?

You have spelled "excommunicated" 4 different ways in your OP. Hint -- the spelling in the title is not correct.

I know. It's really bugging me lol. I Guuess I'll have to go over then again!

[Robin Hood]

This might be a touchy subject for someone and I don't mean to offend you in any way. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get exocoummincated? I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices. Excommunication is not a happy thing and we must refrain from choosing that path. Does anyone have stories of anyone or scriptures or teachings of prophets? And how do people get exocummincated? Does the bishop just tell them or do they get a letter from the First Presidency?

You have spelled "excommunicated" 4 different ways in your OP. Hint -- the spelling in the title is not correct.

I know. It's really bugging me lol. I Guuess I'll have to go over then again!

Eye hait itt wen peepul poynnt owt mii shpeling mystaiks.

[shotx]

If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices. Excommunication is not a happy thing and we must refrain from choosing that path.

I don't think there's anyone who can honestly say their life is (or has been) a straight path in any direction. To paraphrase an apocryphal J. Golden Kimball saying, the realistic goal for most of us isn't to stay on the straight and narrow. We're simply straining to try and cross it as often as we can.

Apostasy is obviously its own type of circumstance. But, for the otherwise faithful member who goes through a period of church discipline, I don't think it has much to do with their level of conversion or testimony. I think virtually anyone is capable of serious lapses in judgement and behavior if they don't handle trials and temptations of life in the right way. Even the strongest among us are still full of human frailties.

[gclayjr]

Z2100,

I'm not sure if you asked the question you actually meant. There are different processes depending upon whether people have been through the Temple and gotten their endowments or not. I am not an expert on this but I think for men, if they are not endowed, and for all women, it is a Bishop's court, and if a man is endowed it is handled at the Stake level. All Bishop's court decisions can be appealed to the Stake.

But I wonder from your OP, if you really are as interested in the process, as for what sins, one might be Excommunicated. I also, am not an expert in that either, but if that is the question you really want answered, maybe you could rephrase it.

Regards,

George Clay

[Rose Garden]

This might be a touchy subject for someone and I don't mean to offend you in any way. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get exocoummincated? I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices. Excommunication is not a happy thing and we must refrain from choosing that path. Does anyone have stories of anyone or scriptures or teachings of prophets? And how do people get exocummincated? Does the bishop just tell them or do they get a letter from the First Presidency?

You have spelled "excommunicated" 4 different ways in your OP. Hint -- the spelling in the title is not correct.

I know. It's really bugging me lol. I Guuess I'll have to go over then again!

Eye hait itt wen peepul poynnt owt mii shpeling mystaiks.

You spell like Joseph Smith....

[inho]

I am not an expert on this but I think for men, if they are not endowed, and for all women, it is a Bishop's court, and if a man is endowed it is handled at the Stake level. All Bishop's court decisions can be appealed to the Stake.

Actually, it depends on if one holds Melchizedek priesthood.


Excommunication is a likely outcome if the transgression is serious, the person is threat to others, or the person has been in a such position that the transgression had caused great harm for the people under his/her influence or to the reputation of the church.

[BackBlast]

This might be a touchy subject for someone. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get excommunicated?

For men, is it more serious than for women, since they hold the priesthood? Are things handled at a Stake level or a Ward level? Are both genders treated equally in the process?

Excommunication happens as a result of formal church disciplinary action. This is usually begun by a Bishop in a court. He has a variety of options, but if excommunication is the recommendation, it moves to the stake level for a formal court involving the stake president and the high council.

In my experience, roles are assigned. Some are assigned to speak up for the individual, others are assigned to speak up for the church, it's reputation, interests, etc.

There is no gender favoritism prescribed. Generally speaking the higher you have progressed in ordinances and responsibilities or the higher public visibility you have, there will be a corresponding need to protect the church's interests. Which makes excommunication more likely, and men are typically more visible. So I think numbers would bear out that women are generally less likely to be excommunicated.

I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices to obviously get the boot?

While we all have our weaknesses in mortality, why would we want to do something very sinful?

Weakness is part of our fallen nature. Carnal and devilish.

Yes, we could have a cursing addiction or a pornography addiction and repent, but fornication goes way across the line. By the way, beside apostasy, rape, etc. are there any "unique" or "unusual" sins you can commit?

Mosiah 4:29 And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.

I don't think it prudent to speculate on the topic.

P.S. Has Julie Rowe been excommunicated? She indefinitely should be...

IMHO, you should refrain from such judgement of others. You do not know her complete circumstance, nor do you have stewardship over her and of protecting the Church's interests. That duty belongs to others, I'd advise you to leave it with them.

[Z2100]

This might be a touchy subject for someone. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get excommunicated?

For men, is it more serious than for women, since they hold the priesthood? Are things handled at a Stake level or a Ward level? Are both genders treated equally in the process?

Excommunication happens as a result of formal church disciplinary action. This is usually begun by a Bishop in a court. He has a variety of options, but if excommunication is the recommendation, it moves to the stake level for a formal court involving the stake president and the high council.

In my experience, roles are assigned. Some are assigned to speak up for the individual, others are assigned to speak up for the church, it's reputation, interests, etc.

There is no gender favoritism prescribed. Generally speaking the higher you have progressed in ordinances and responsibilities or the higher public visibility you have, there will be a corresponding need to protect the church's interests. Which makes excommunication more likely, and men are typically more visible. So I think numbers would bear out that women are generally less likely to be excommunicated.

I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices to obviously get the boot?

While we all have our weaknesses in mortality, why would we want to do something very sinful?

Weakness is part of our fallen nature. Carnal and devilish.

Yes, we could have a cursing addiction or a pornography addiction and repent, but fornication goes way across the line. By the way, beside apostasy, rape, etc. are there any "unique" or "unusual" sins you can commit?

Mosiah 4:29 And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.

I don't think it prudent to speculate on the topic.

P.S. Has Julie Rowe been excommunicated? She indefinitely should be...

IMHO, you should refrain from such judgement of others. You do not know her complete circumstance, nor do you have stewardship over her and of protecting the Church's interests. That duty belongs to others, I'd advise you to leave it with them.

Thank you for your insight. I'll also delete that last tidbit.

[brianj]

First off I would like to say that excommunication is not a punishment but a tender mercy. People who are excommunicated (when things are working as they should) are those who have committed significant sin(s) that will take a while to repent of, often people who are not yet working to repent of those sins. Through the process of excommunication they are released from their covenants so they are not earning as much condemnation for themselves.

As has been said, Melchizedek priesthood holders are considered for excommunication by the stake president and high council while everyone else faces their bishopric. In situations where excommunication is not going to be an outcome a Melchizedek priesthood holder can face a disciplinary council of his bishopric and be disfellowshipped and I know at least one person who went through this as an elder.

As far as how people are excommunicated, a disciplinary council will be held at the ward or stake level, as appropriate. If the person has chosen to attend, they will be interviewed by the members of the council then asked to step out of the room while the council prays and deliberates. They are then invited back into the room and told the result. I don't know if they also receive a letter or not. If the person does not attend their disciplinary council, they will be notified of the excommunication by letter.

The big questions we should focus on with regards to excommunication are:
How do we help those who have been excommunicated return to the church and qualify for rebaptism then to have their blessings restored?
How do we help those who are being tempted down a dangerous path to turn back to righteousness before church discipline is needed?

[LDS Physician]

I'm currently serving as a bishop. As has been said, excommunication can occur for a variety of reasons. I'll list many below. If a Melchizedek priesthood holder appears to the bishop to have acted in a manner that might result in excommunication then the disciplinary counsel is elevated to the stake level. All other people can be handled on the ward level with some exceptions.

Violation which always results in excommunication: murder

Violation which very likely will result in excommunication: incest, sexual offence of a child or violent abuse

Violations which could result in excommunication: members whose membership gives them access to their victims, members whose conduct is a serious threat to other members, disfellowshipped members who refuse to cease their sinful activity, church leaders or prominent members who commit public actions which are harmful to the reputation of the church, apostasy, theft of church funds or property, transgender operation.

Those are the ones that I know of...but each is a on a case by case basis. And certainly, as said above, this is not punitive, but instead is mercy-guided, spirit-led, and an attempt to help the individual heal and repent. I have rarely felt a more formal, humbling, serious, and solemn spirit when holding disciplinary counsels. Indeed, the Lord is closely involved and obviously very interested in the "lost sheep" present in the counsels. I always feel very small when leading these counsels and they are most often filled with the spirit in a very positively emotional way.

[Still Learning]

I'm currently serving as a bishop. As has been said, excommunication can occur for a variety of reasons. I'll list many below. If a Melchizedek priesthood holder appears to the bishop to have acted in a manner that might result in excommunication then the disciplinary counsel is elevated to the stake level. All other people can be handled on the ward level with some exceptions.

Violation which always results in excommunication: murder

Violation which very likely will result in excommunication: incest, sexual offence of a child or violent abuse

Violations which could result in excommunication: members whose membership gives them access to their victims, members whose conduct is a serious threat to other members, disfellowshipped members who refuse to cease their sinful activity, church leaders or prominent members who commit public actions which are harmful to the reputation of the church, apostasy, theft of church funds or property, transgender operation.

Those are the ones that I know of...but each is a on a case by case basis. And certainly, as said above, this is not punitive, but instead is mercy-guided, spirit-led, and an attempt to help the individual heal and repent. I have rarely felt a more formal, humbling, serious, and solemn spirit when holding disciplinary counsels. Indeed, the Lord is closely involved and obviously very interested in the "lost sheep" present in the counsels. I always feel very small when leading these counsels and they are most often filled with the spirit in a very positively emotional way.

I just wanted to comment on what you said about how humbling and spiritual disciplinary councils are. I wholeheartedly agree. Especially when the person is repentant, they always seem to be beautifully filled with the spirit. I have always felt so grateful to he a part of them, excepting only the circumstances. It is like you are almost sitting in the room with the Savior at times, so powerful is the spirit and the power of the Atonement. You are witnessing the atonement working in people's lives, and often times when involving multiple people, the forgiveness they give to the offender is one of the most christlike things I have witnessed. I have never felt anything but mercy and love in the several I have participated in.

[underdog]

The most ignominious excommunication of all time:

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2014/ ... s.html?m=1

[brlenox]

The most ignominious excommunication of all time:

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2014/ ... s.html?m=1

Hmmmm

[eddie]

[quote=Z2100 post_id=784637 time=1495633602 user_id=10314]
This might be a touchy subject for someone. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get excommunicated?

For men, is it more serious than for women, since they hold the priesthood? Are things handled at a Stake level or a Ward level? Are both genders treated equally in the process?

I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices to obviously get the boot?

While we all have our weaknesses in mortality, why would we want to do something very sinful? Yes, we could have a cursing addiction or a pornography addiction and repent, but fornication goes way across the line. By the way, beside apostasy, rape, etc. are there any "unique" or "unusual" sins you can commit?
[/quote]

Unusual sins;

According to Finnian if you are overweight you should be shot by a firing squad.

Watching porn backwards is still a sin, even though you miss the subliminal message.

You should ask those in outer darkness here about their unusual sins.

[MMbelieve]

This might be a touchy subject for someone. But I have a question. Besides fornication and incest, how do people get excommunicated?

For men, is it more serious than for women, since they hold the priesthood? Are things handled at a Stake level or a Ward level? Are both genders treated equally in the process?

I'm reading an article on the Ensign, page 55-57. It is about woman who came back to the Church after being excommunicated. The problem with this article is that she says that she has been part of the church 8 years old and she lived faithfully. If she were to live in righteousness and faith in her younger years, why would she make bad choices to obviously get the boot?

While we all have our weaknesses in mortality, why would we want to do something very sinful? Yes, we could have a cursing addiction or a pornography addiction and repent, but fornication goes way across the line. By the way, beside apostasy, rape, etc. are there any "unique" or "unusual" sins you can commit?

To say that she was raised in the church since 8 and believed and lived it so why would she want to do something to get the boot is to me absolutely playing into the false cultural beliefs of mormonism. We are not supposed to draw a line and just make sure we don't cross it, or make lists of do's and don't. This gospel is supposed to be real to us and who we are as a person.

I doubt she WANTED to do something to get the boot, we are all human beings and are capable of great sins, to think because you attended church since 8 you are protected is false belief that way too many people realize the hard way. If you are not fighting for good you are falling - we do not ever stand still. If one drops the ball because "life" happens, then defenses decrease.

My thought was maybe she committed adultry to some degree or another.

I have never been through a counsel but know some who have. It's not something someone wants.

[LukeAir2008]

The most recent high profile excommunications - John Dehlin, Kate Kelly etc. have been for activities which did not involve personal sins.

They both expressed views which the Church didn't like.

Kate Kelly believes that women should be able to receive the Priesthood. She organised a group of women who attended the Priesthood session at General Conference. She petitioned the Brethren to specifically ask the Lord whether the ordination of women was right and to then make known the answer they received from God. The Brethren did not like that idea and she was excommunicated by her Stake President.

John Dehlin interviewed (still does) a whole selection of Mormons (LDS and other Mormon groups) and non-Mormons for his Mormon Stories podcast and discussed a whole range of subjects from his own mission experiences where the missionaries were carrying out 'soccer' baptisms to boost the statistics to a man who had received 'higher' ordinances in the Temple and who then. revealed the nature of theoe ordinances and said the Church was false.

John Dehlin was expressing views on homosexuality and other sensitive issues which the Church didn't like and both he and his wife were excommunicated by their Stake President.

If you are committing serious sin and make it known to your Church leaders, unless you are a leader yourself, you are unlikely to be excommunicated. The Church will usually try to 'rehabilitate' you and excommunication will be a last resort after probation, disfellowshipment, counselling etc. hasn't worked.

[LukeAir2008]

Interestingly, the man who had received the 'higher' ordinances in the Preston Temple and who then revealed explicit details of what had taken place and who stated that he knew the Church was false, has not been excommunicated and cannot be excommunicated.

[Silver]

The most ignominious excommunication of all time:

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2014/ ... s.html?m=1

Well, that explains a lot.

[LukeAir2008]

On the issue of murderers always being excommunicated - this is not actually true. I was a member of a branch where a particular sister had brutally murdered someone earlier in her life, had then changed her identity, moved to America, joined the Church, went to the Temple etc. had become very rich and famous, was featured in articles in the Ensign, hung out with General Authorities who had praised her, and then in 1994, film director Peter Jackson decided to make a movie starring Kate Winslett about a young women who had brutally murdered her best friend/lesbian lovers mother in New Zealand and lo and behold someone did some detective work and traced this person to be a famous member of the LDS Church who had kept her former activities secret.

No disciplinary action taken.