Losing their religion: Millennials, including Utahns, leaving church

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Nearly 60 percent of all millennials raised in a church have stopped going.

by Heidi Hatch, KUTV
Tuesday, May 9th 2017


They're not in search of a new faith, they simply want out. The mass exodus from church pews nationwide has been studied at length in recent years by the Pew Research Center, which tracks Millennials by state, religion and faith. It's research has found that no religion has been safe in these drastic membership losses — each one is still grappling with a way to bring them back.

In Utah, a state known for its religious fervor, and home of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the loss of young people is evident. Researchers believe Mormons may remain in larger numbers than other faiths, but retention rates are dropping at a never-before-seen speed.

MILLENNIALS

Millennials are a tricky bunch to understand. They are the first group to come of age in the new millennium, born after 1980, living in a world far different than even the generation before.
When you hear the term “Millennial” you probably think of the people who packed Bernie Sanders rallies, love taking selfies and hate to commit to anything — including moving out of your basement.

Those are the stereotypes, but if you look at the cold hard data, there is one thing we know for sure: Millennials of all religious backgrounds are leaving the faith of their fathers at an alarming rate. To give you a better understanding of where they are coming from, 2News sat down with two women who shared their stories and insights.

“I'm definitely not interested in any religion as far as religions that exist," said 24-year-old Samantha Shelley. "I consider myself a secular humanist.” Shelley is well-spoken, thoughtful and said she has no need for religion in her life. The beautiful blonde was born and raised in England, but moved to the states to go to college at Brigham Young University Idaho. She joined the LDS church as a teen and loved her church so much she wanted to be a bigger part of it.

“I feel like I’m way too logical now to be religious,” Shelley said. Shelley is now married, works in marketing and can’t imagine joining another religion or going back to the one she left, but the journey hasn’t been easy. In fact, she said losing her religion was painful.

“It was difficult for me, because I didn't grow up religious," Shelley said. "I joined what I thought was this perfect religion, true church." For Shelley “not having an expectation of a heaven or a God or whatever and then being given it and losing it” was painful. When she finally decided to leave and tell her husband she felt “so much worse off than I was before.""That was a difficult emotional journey,” Shelley said.

Millennials like Samantha are not leaving because they're lazy, according to research. They are doing their due diligence before walking away from something they see as more hurtful than helpful. For Shelley, her “whole transition was only about three months.” Researchers studying this mass exodus say this is the case for most. The decision is made quickly and there is no looking back once the decision is made.

THE NONES

According to Pew Research, Shelley is not an anomaly. She and a third of all Mormon millennials have decided to walk away into a new category called the "nones." Not to be mistaken with a Nun, who has devoted their life to God, Nones have no religion, nor a desire to seek one.

“It's really hard to put everyone into a box,” said 28-year-old Rachael Fox. Fox said she felt like church was boxing her into a set of beliefs that did not align with her own. She grew up a non-denominational Christian in the Ogden area, but parted ways with the church of her childhood when she graduated high school.

SOCIAL CHANGE

“Human rights was a big thing for me,” Fox said. In her private Christian school, Rachael said she saw teachers and church leaders harass gay students — something that struck a nerve. She recalls a 12-year-old classmate being subjected to torment, and other students battled “Brokeback Mountain,” Ang Lee's 2005 gay romance film, jokes as they were trying to find their way.

It was “from there on” she “started to dissect other things that maybe I was being told, and had to decide whether they were true and if I believed them or not.” Both Fox and Shelley — like so many others their age — support social change including gay rights and marriage. Millennials are a generation of inclusion, something the two women said they weren't finding inside their churches, a place which they both said should be a respite and place of acceptance.

INFORMATION AGE

“My generation grew up in the information age," Shelley said. "So we have a totally different way of determining truth, or at least our ability to determine truth may be different.”
Shelley found her way out of the LDS church after doing online research.
“As a Mormon, you know about polygamy but you don't know about polygamy," Shelley said.

A good friend who researched LDS doctrine and history in an effort to strengthen his own faith shared what he found, which only served to pull Shelley further away. Her self-described struggle started just before her marriage in the Logan, Utah LDS temple, and ended quickly after.
Shelley said she did not go looking for reasons to leave her faith, but that once she was presented with information she found harmful, it became easy for her to find answers to questions she had never been allowed to ask church members.

Shelley, though young in her faith, considered herself “well-versed in Mormonism generally” as she left her home country of England and started her college career at BYU Idaho.
“It was really quick after I started learning the stuff about history that I was like, this is not what I signed up for at all,” Shelley said.

The information age has ushered in an age of transparency, in which Millennials can not only search out truth, but a place where they expect transparency. Today’s young adults expect their churches to open their bank books as readily as their doors — and there are very few, if any, who will lay out where tithing or donation dollars go. That doesn't sit well with Fox.

“The hypocrisy of all of it," Fox said. 'Being told I need to donate 10 percent of my paycheck to a church where you go and you are sitting in an old arena and they have thousands of people and flying on private planes, but there are people who are poor and need food,” Fox said.
She said she wanted to know whether her money was going to the needy and service-related initiatives, or for new buildings and bloated paychecks.

ACCOUNTABILITY

Millennials yearn for accountability from their leaders and themselves, Pew found.. Instead of spending hours in church meetings every week, they express desire to use that time getting into back to the basics of service. “We were put here to help others along the way," Fox said.
After leaving her church, Fox pursued a career path that allows her to serve every day: She works at a retirement home as an activities director.

“I love going to work every day and making the residents smile and being a part of their lives and bringing joy to this final chapter of their lives," Fox said. Fox will tell you she’s “passionate about making the world a better place." I think it is a trend that is coming out millennials — taking care of others and realizing we are not alone and we need to take care of others on the earth,” Fox said.

But for each Millennial, the journey is different. Shelley has made changes in her life since leaving her religion as well. She told 2News she is "really introspective and kind of in tune with how we all become what we are." "In that respect, I’m spiritual,” Shelley said. She’s become politically active, as well. She recently adopted to two cats named “Bernie,” as in Independent Vermont Senator and former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, and “Bansky” as in the street artist. She's also given up meat in order to care for animals and the earth.

MILLENNIAL MINDSET

Pew research is still following this new generation and has found that while only 27 percent of millennials regularly attend church, 42 percent still pray daily. Another 67 percent cling to a belief in heaven or a life beyond the one they have now.

“Having faith in something bigger than you” is something Fox needs her in life.

There is one Christian blogger who has some ideas for faith leaders. In fact, Sam Eaton's February blog post on the topic has gone viral. “From the depths of my heart, I want to love church," Eaton wrote. "I want to be head over heels for church like the unshakable Ned Flanders. I want to send global, sky-writing airplanes telling the life-change that happens beneath a steeple. I want to install a police microphone on top of my car and cruise the streets screaming to the masses about the magical Utopian community of believers waiting for them just down the street.""Turns out, I identify more with Maria from The Sound of Music staring out the abbey window, longing to be free," Eaton wrote.

In the post, he included 12 "theses," like those of Martin Luther's, to help faith leaders understand his concerns. They include the following:
Nobody’s Listening to Us
We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements
Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority
We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture
The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect
Distrust & Misallocation of Resources
We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At
We Want to Feel Valued
We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues
The Public Perception
Stop Talking About Us
You’re Failing to Adapt
“The truth is” he wrote, “it’s your move.”

Pew research shows the Salt Lake City LDS Church has a 64 percent retention rate, a drastic drop from nearly 90 percent in the 1980s. Mormons are faring better than the average, and that may be due in part to a recent move to get teens immersed in church earlier with missions at a younger age, but each faith will have to do some good hard thinking according to the Millennials we spoke to if they are going to figure out what they're doing wrong to make these numbers turn around.


http://kutv.com/news/local/losing-th...leaving-church

[Sirocco]

For me, I mean I have come to care less and less about social justice issues due to how they, well blame me as the straight white male for all the world's ills, I (as a millennial) simply felt I'd never be part of it.
I'd always be the convert, and it was hearing the treatment to other converts, not history or anything like that, which put me off.
I had hopes, but the one here seemed generally uninterested in me, and I was ignored and haven't returned.
I've gone to several different sorts of churches and they all have that aura about them, since I am not one of them, I never will be.
Religion has become unwelcoming to millennials, and I don't blame them with how many of them are social justice wackjobs, but they seem to want us and don't at the same time.
Though the next generation is gearing up to me more conservative then any generation back to WW2, so, that will probably help.

[samizdat]

Any time that the Church ceases preaching sound doctrine, and the parents stop preaching sound doctrine to the children, you see a slowdown and even a reversal of Church growth.

Any time when the Church is unapologetic in preaching the sound doctrine, and the parents preach it to their children, you see rapid growth in the Church.

The Church grew A LOT MORE in the years of David O McKay, Spencer W Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, and even Gordon B HInckley.

[Gage]

Any time that the Church ceases preaching sound doctrine, and the parents stop preaching sound doctrine to the children, you see a slowdown and even a reversal of Church growth.

Any time when the Church is unapologetic in preaching the sound doctrine, and the parents preach it to their children, you see rapid growth in the Church.

The Church grew A LOT MORE in the years of David O McKay, Spencer W Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, and even Gordon B HInckley.

Whatever, Millenials are taught from birth that homosexuality is ok and normal. So they agree with what their friends believe and not some bigot religion that says its sin. Many of these members that leave the church because (the church hates gays) or (the church practiced polygamy) are the same members that never had much of a testimony to begin with. They went to church and saw a lovely social scene with nice people and it looked like fun. They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

[Z2100]

Though the next generation is gearing up to me more conservative then any generation back to WW2, so, that will probably help.

Are you saying that all Hell is going to break loose or would it be WW3?

FYI I am part of the "next generation."

[BTH&T]

Some of the points stated in article:

“I'm definitely not interested in any religion as far as religions that exist"

"I consider myself a secular humanist”

“I feel like I’m way too logical now to be religious”

“It was difficult for me, because I didn't grow up religious"

“Human rights was a big thing for me,” .....support social change including gay rights and marriage.
Millennial's are a generation of inclusion, ...a place which they both said should be a respite and place of acceptance.

“My generation grew up in the information age.....So we have a totally different way of determining truth, or at least our ability to determine truth may be different.”

The information age has ushered in an age of transparency, in which Millennials can not only search out truth, but a place where they expect transparency. Today’s young adults expect their churches to open their bank books as readily as their doors — and there are very few, if any, who will lay out where tithing or donation dollars go.

She said she wanted to know whether her money was going to the needy and service-related initiatives, or for new buildings and bloated paychecks.

Millennials yearn for accountability from their leaders and themselves ...... also given up meat in order to care for animals and the earth.

I have four children, all married, all with children of their own.
I have seen how they have grown up and what they have been "fed".

Some of the thoughts I have as I read and contemplate this information.

Satan is doing a number and is taking families and individuals!

Most if not all of the issues are the liberal ways taught in our schools and media. Society has been indoctrinated in the precepts of men.
As society has progressed from agricultural, to industrial, to the "information age" we have distanced ourselves from God.
We have now come up with no need for religion in many ways.

I yearn for a place where real truth and peace is, and the ways of society today and the ways of many of this millennial generation sadden me.
The great deceiver has worked his way into the hearts of the children, now as this new generation has families of their own (the few that do) they truly are brought up in unbelief. This cycle has been repeated many times in history, and it does lead to destruction.

[h_p]

Many of these members that leave the church because (the church hates gays) or (the church practiced polygamy) are the same members that never had much of a testimony to begin with. They went to church and saw a lovely social scene with nice people and it looked like fun. They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

That's kind of expected when your missionary force is trained to be salesmen and hit quotas. And maybe the ones growing up in the church never really saw much of a need to get a firm testimony because of all the hypocrisy they saw around them. We should start placing blame at our own feet before blaming them, imo.

[jbalm]

It's ok. They're just "products of their time."

[Gage]

Many of these members that leave the church because (the church hates gays) or (the church practiced polygamy) are the same members that never had much of a testimony to begin with. They went to church and saw a lovely social scene with nice people and it looked like fun. They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

That's kind of expected when your missionary force is trained to be salesmen and hit quotas. And maybe the ones growing up in the church never really saw much of a need to get a firm testimony because of all the hypocrisy they saw around them. We should start placing blame at our own feet before blaming them, imo.

I totally agree, I never could understand the whole "just go out and baptize as many as you can" approach. I guess the thought is they will join and investigate more and then develop a testimony. But that is impossible now when you are baptizing a generation that worships man and worldly things and views and can never understand why gays are not welcome with open arms.

[BTH&T]

Any time that the Church ceases preaching sound doctrine, and the parents stop preaching sound doctrine to the children, you see a slowdown and even a reversal of Church growth.
Any time when the Church is unapologetic in preaching the sound doctrine, and the parents preach it to their children, you see rapid growth in the Church.

I think you are right in the sense that principles are true no matter what.
Society seems all to ready to adjust to the current norms, tossed to and fro with any wind of doctrine.
Times change, truth does not.

I really believe that the millennial generation are a product of the choices made by past decisions.
Politics, Education and Media have played a very major role in the environment we live.
I have been of the opinion for some time that the die has been cast and we now reap what has been sown.

[JohnnyL]

In the post, he included 12 "theses," like those of Martin Luther's, to help faith leaders understand his concerns. They include the following:
Nobody’s Listening to Us
We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements
Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority
We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture
The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect
Distrust & Misallocation of Resources
We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At
We Want to Feel Valued
We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues
The Public Perception
Stop Talking About Us
You’re Failing to Adapt
“The truth is” he wrote, “it’s your move.”

I'd have to agree with many.

[Sirocco]

Though the next generation is gearing up to me more conservative then any generation back to WW2, so, that will probably help.

Are you saying that all Hell is going to break loose or would it be WW3?

FYI I am part of the "next generation."

No yours won't be as spineless or pathetic as mine.
The idea of 72 genders and men and women being exactly the same and selective science because feelings will fade away, millennials have created something insane.
I never cared if someone was gay, or trans or whatever, but now I am called hateful because I said there are 2 genders or I want to be with an actual woman.
Don't let your surroundings be tarnished by insane people.

[Z2100]

Though the next generation is gearing up to me more conservative then any generation back to WW2, so, that will probably help.

Are you saying that all Hell is going to break loose or would it be WW3?

FYI I am part of the "next generation."

No yours won't be as spineless or pathetic as mine.
The idea of 72 genders and men and women being exactly the same and selective science because feelings will fade away, millennials have created something insane.
I never cared if someone was gay, or trans or whatever, but now I am called hateful because I said there are 2 genders or I want to be with an actual woman.
Don't let your surroundings be tarnished by insane people.

be

Thank you. My generation is the new "silent generation." As long as you keep doing the right thing, you'll be one of the most righteous in the wicked generation

[Sirocco]

I have a ways to go to be considered anywhere near righteous lol

[BTH&T]

My opinions are in red

Nobody’s Listening to Us ... What are you saying of value? Is it bringing us all closer to the purpose of Being?


We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements.... Then ignore them, life isn't all about you!


Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority ... So not true! But the real question is what are you doing personally about it?


We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture.... Lots of blame to go around, I stated my opinion on this in previous post.


The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect ... I'm not sure what this is getting at?


Distrust & Misallocation of Resources ... In your opinion. Resources are put on the earth for the use and benefit of man.


We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At..... You need both, done with love and understanding.


We Want to Feel Valued.... That's up to you, what are you doing to be valued? You have to participate to get the trophy right?


We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues..... Lots of talk of issues, problem I see that Mellennials want there opinions validated.


The Public Perception ..... Where there's smoke there's usually fire


Stop Talking About Us .... Not going to happen, every generation is part of society. Step up and improve the perception.


You’re Failing to Adapt ..... All change is not a good thing, adapt to what?


“The truth is” he wrote, “it’s your move.”........ No it is not. Here is the major problem, Mellennials don't take responsibility for who and what they are and what they stand for. It is up to you to be what you want to be!

I'd have to agree with many. Not meant to be directed at you JohnnyL

Again, just my opinions but there seems to be a lot of whining and victim mentality... but that is how most were raised!

[BackBlast]

We send our children to live in Rome to be educated and entertained, and then we wonder why they turn into Romans.

[Sarah]

We send our children to live in Rome to be educated and entertained, and then we wonder why they turn into Romans.

So true.

[Cookies]

They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

Well yeah, I mean, a lot of us were eight at the time.

[Rose Garden]

My opinions are in red

Nobody’s Listening to Us ... What are you saying of value? Is it bringing us all closer to the purpose of Being?


We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements.... Then ignore them, life isn't all about you!


Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority ... So not true! But the real question is what are you doing personally about it?


We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture.... Lots of blame to go around, I stated my opinion on this in previous post.


The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect ... I'm not sure what this is getting at?


Distrust & Misallocation of Resources ... In your opinion. Resources are put on the earth for the use and benefit of man.


We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At..... You need both, done with love and understanding.


We Want to Feel Valued.... That's up to you, what are you doing to be valued? You have to participate to get the trophy right?


We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues..... Lots of talk of issues, problem I see that Mellennials want there opinions validated.


The Public Perception ..... Where there's smoke there's usually fire


Stop Talking About Us .... Not going to happen, every generation is part of society. Step up and improve the perception.


You’re Failing to Adapt ..... All change is not a good thing, adapt to what?


“The truth is” he wrote, “it’s your move.”........ No it is not. Here is the major problem, Mellennials don't take responsibility for who and what they are and what they stand for. It is up to you to be what you want to be!

I'd have to agree with many. Not meant to be directed at you JohnnyL

Again, just my opinions but there seems to be a lot of whining and victim mentality... but that is how most were raised!

The Declaration of Independence was also a list of complaints about the "leadership." The king didn't listen; he lost his subjects.

Same thing here. Maybe it's a victim mentality or maybe not. But the bottom line is, the complainers aren't​ just complaining, they're acting. They're voting with their feet. There is a difference between those who complain and don't act and those who complain and do act. Tell them they just have a victim mentality, etc., and don't listen to them and soon enough you'll realize they aren't listening to you anymore either. And they are perfectly content, to boot.

[BTH&T]

My opinions are in red

Nobody’s Listening to Us ... What are you saying of value? Is it bringing us all closer to the purpose of Being?


We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements.... Then ignore them, life isn't all about you!


Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority ... So not true! But the real question is what are you doing personally about it?


We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture.... Lots of blame to go around, I stated my opinion on this in previous post.


The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect ... I'm not sure what this is getting at?


Distrust & Misallocation of Resources ... In your opinion. Resources are put on the earth for the use and benefit of man.


We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At..... You need both, done with love and understanding.


We Want to Feel Valued.... That's up to you, what are you doing to be valued? You have to participate to get the trophy right?


We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues..... Lots of talk of issues, problem I see that Mellennials want there opinions validated.


The Public Perception ..... Where there's smoke there's usually fire


Stop Talking About Us .... Not going to happen, every generation is part of society. Step up and improve the perception.


You’re Failing to Adapt ..... All change is not a good thing, adapt to what?


“The truth is” he wrote, “it’s your move.”........ No it is not. Here is the major problem, Mellennials don't take responsibility for who and what they are and what they stand for. It is up to you to be what you want to be!

I'd have to agree with many. Not meant to be directed at you JohnnyL

Again, just my opinions but there seems to be a lot of whining and victim mentality... but that is how most were raised!

The Declaration of Independence was also a list of complaints about the "leadership." The king didn't listen; he lost his subjects.

Same thing here. Maybe it's a victim mentality or maybe not. But the bottom line is, the complainers aren't​ just complaining, they're acting. They're voting with their feet. There is a difference between those who complain and don't act and those who complain and do act. Tell them they just have a victim mentality, etc., and don't listen to them and soon enough you'll realize they aren't listening to you anymore either. And they are perfectly content, to boot.

As I said earlier, we as society are now reaping what has been sown.
There are consequences to the way people are raised, the education they are given, and the media that they absorb.
The great deceiver really has worked out a scheme here that is leading us all down a path of unbelief.
Of the things I pointed out, what/where was I off base?

I'll listen to them, but I will not automatically agree with them just to pacify. Sometimes the answer is no. Did they hear that enough?

I truly believe we all have a vast amount of information to sort through, but do they really know how to find truth?

Do they know and understand where they come from?

Does their purpose on this earth burn in them?

Is their understanding of what the Eternal Outcome means drive there choices or is it all about what is here and now?

Yes they are leaving, why?

Do they really know anything that matters?

(Sad I don't have an opinion on this)

[Silver]

Millennial Generation schmillennial generation. They're not so special. Their pattern of behavior is a carbon copy of what has happened countless times before them.

MG: Oh, my parents don't understand me.
The world: Yeah, they do. You just don't want to be responsible enough to listen to their answer.
MG: <fingers in ears> La la la la la la...

From the Book of Mormon:
Mosiah 26;
1 Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the words of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did not believe the tradition of their fathers.

2 They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ.

3 And now because of their unbelief they could not understand the word of God; and their hearts were hardened.

4 And they would not be baptized; neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God.

From the Bible:
Noah, his wife, and six righteous people got off the ark. In a few generations their descendants were building the Tower of Babel because...wait for it...those children were special.

[BTH&T]

Millennial Generation schmillennial generation. They're not so special. Their pattern of behavior is a carbon copy of what has happened countless times before them.

MG: Oh, my parents don't understand me.
The world: Yeah, they do. You just don't want to be responsible enough to listen to their answer.
MG: <fingers in ears> La la la la la la...

From the Book of Mormon:
Mosiah 26;
1 Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the words of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did not believe the tradition of their fathers.

2 They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ.

3 And now because of their unbelief they could not understand the word of God; and their hearts were hardened.

4 And they would not be baptized; neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God.

From the Bible:
Noah, his wife, and six righteous people got off the ark. In a few generations their descendants were building the Tower of Babel because...wait for it...those children were special.

Thanks for the context!

[Rose Garden]

My opinions are in red

I'd have to agree with many. Not meant to be directed at you JohnnyL

Again, just my opinions but there seems to be a lot of whining and victim mentality... but that is how most were raised!

The Declaration of Independence was also a list of complaints about the "leadership." The king didn't listen; he lost his subjects.

Same thing here. Maybe it's a victim mentality or maybe not. But the bottom line is, the complainers aren't​ just complaining, they're acting. They're voting with their feet. There is a difference between those who complain and don't act and those who complain and do act. Tell them they just have a victim mentality, etc., and don't listen to them and soon enough you'll realize they aren't listening to you anymore either. And they are perfectly content, to boot.

As I said earlier, we as society are now reaping what has been sown.
There are consequences to the way people are raised, the education they are given, and the media that they absorb.
The great deceiver really has worked out a scheme here that is leading us all down a path of unbelief.
Of the things I pointed out, what/where was I off base?

I'll listen to them, but I will not automatically agree with them just to pacify. Sometimes the answer is no. Did they hear that enough?

I truly believe we all have a vast amount of information to sort through, but do they really know how to find truth?

Do they know and understand where they come from?

Does their purpose on this earth burn in them?

Is their understanding of what the Eternal Outcome means drive there choices or is it all about what is here and now?

Yes they are leaving, why?

Do they really know anything that matters?

(Sad I don't have an opinion on this)

It was the tone that was off, not necessarily the specific points.

This is something I understand from raising my little children. Yes, they are young, unwise, and foolish. If I talk down to them and get frustrated with them for their follies then I "lose" them. They no longer want to cooperate with me and everything becomes a battle. But if I listen, show understanding, and work to help enlarge their understanding then I "gain" them. They will do what I ask most of the time without argument and will work with me to fix issues because they know I'm on their side and I'm doing my best to help them obtain the things they want.

Your tone is one of condemnation. You are talking down to this generation, belittling them for what you perceive to be foolishness in them. Even if everything you say is correct, your attitude is hurtful. It will lead sooner or later to those you are speaking to simply flipping you the bird and ignoring you because you don't really have anything they want. Respect is more precious than you might think.

This is a vital truth for anyone who desires to follow the Lord Jesus Christ to understand. If you don't come to Jesus you will lose out but it won't be because he's got great treasures to give you that he's going to selfishly withhold if you don't do what he wants. It's because he's the only person who was so desirous to be with you that he suffered pains beyond death to earn that privilege. When you don't turn to him you lose the opportunity to be with the one person who will never condemn you, never belittle you, never purposely make you feel awkward or ashamed of yourself and who has the power to make you feel like royalty just by being within the range of his love for you.

You may have priesthood and you may have sealing power within the church but all that is about as valuable as a doggie turd if you aren't treating other people like Jesus treated them. The power to seal is born first in the power to persuade others to listen to you and stick it out with you and that power is born in how well you are listening to them and sticking it out with them. It's born by treating people with respect even when they are acting young and foolish.

Sorry if I've got carried away here. This subject hits close to home. Only things eternal will stand the test of time. When we reach the other side, we won't have the power to blame those who we've driven away from us by our bad behavior for leaving us. We won't be able to call upon temple ordinances if spouses, children, parents, and siblings say, no thanks, I'd rather be alone than stuck for eternity with ______! Maybe the younger generation has something worth listening after all and it's us who are being foolish. In my experience, I'd say that's a distinct possibility.

[BTH&T]

It was the tone that was off, not necessarily the specific points.

This is something I understand from raising my little children. Yes, they are young, unwise, and foolish. If I talk down to them and get frustrated with them for their follies then I "lose" them. They no longer want to cooperate with me and everything becomes a battle. But if I listen, show understanding, and work to help enlarge their understanding then I "gain" them. They will do what I ask most of the time without argument and will work with me to fix issues because they know I'm on their side and I'm doing my best to help them obtain the things they want.

Your tone is one of commendation. You are talking down to this generation, belittling them for what you perceive to be foolishness in them. Even if everything you say is correct, your attitude is hurtful. It will lead sooner or later to those you are speaking to simply flipping you the bird and ignoring you because you don't really have anything they want. Respect is more precious than you might think.

This is a vital truth for anyone who desires to follow the Lord Jesus Christ to understand. If you don't come to Jesus you will lose out but it won't be because he's got great treasures to give you that he's going to selfishly withhold if you don't do what he wants. It's because he's the only person who was so desirous to be with you that he suffered pains beyond death to earn that privilege. When you don't turn to him you lose the opportunity to be with the one person who will never condemn you, never belittle you, never purposely make you feel awkward or ashamed of yourself and who has the power to make you feel like royalty just by being within the range of his love for you.

You may have priesthood and you may have sealing power within the church but all that is about as valuable as a doggie turd if you aren't treating other people like Jesus treated them. The power to seal is born first in the power to persuade others to listen to you and stick it out with you and that power is born in how well you are listening to them and sticking it out with them. It's born by treating people with respect even when they are acting young and foolish.

Sorry if I've got carried away here. This subject hits close to home. Only things eternal will stand the test of time. When we reach the other side, we won't have the power to blame those who we've driven away from us by our bad behavior for leaving us. We won't be able to call upon temple ordinances if spouses, children, parents, and siblings say, no thanks, I'd rather be alone than stuck for eternity with ______! Maybe the younger generation has something worth listening after all and it's us who are being foolish. In my experience, I'd say that's a distinct possibility.

Perceptive!
You are correct in that I was pretty harsh.

My wrath is not so much at the MG, but the choices made that influenced them.
It is painful to see the moral downfall and I want to shout out to the world that we are really messing this up.

How many feel that there are sound family morals taught in our eduction system?

It is totally obvious (at least to me) that the political/gov't is corrupt and spiraling down, not just one party ether.

Media (print, internet, music, etc. entertainment, news) all do little to uplift and inspire .

I do not believe this is by chance, it is evil that tries to drag us down, and it appears to by gaining steam.

Are you part of the MG? I mean no disrespect. Why don't people see through the false presentation?

[Gage]

They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

Well yeah, I mean, a lot of us were eight at the time.

I am talking about the adults (the adults in the article too) that say they joined for a year, etc. and then realized they didnt believe the same.