Losing their religion: Millennials, including Utahns, leaving church

[Rose Garden]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

[Sunain]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

I think that Transparency is one of the main issues Millennials have. Church stats and tithing have always been secretive. Anything secretive or not available to public view is viewed with skepticism because there is a lot of corruption in the world in business and churches.

I personally believe that the reason the church is losing so many youth/millenials is it's own fault and the leaders of the church will be held accountable for the decisions they have made. There is so many things the church could have done to support these members over the years. Contrary to what the popular opinion is in this thread, Millennials are a neglected generation in various different ways than previous generations.

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens sums up the situation in our day, the same issues that were occurring in his day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Missionary exchanges in our area are focused on reactivating members. When we are able to talk with people about the issues they have, a lot of them are doctrine that we really can't dispute like: Word of Wisdom, LGBT, Law of Chastity, Polygamy, Priesthood for males only, ect.

There are a lot of points that are also brought up though where there are issues in the church. Almost all the issues come up on this list:
http://www.whymormonsleave.com/wp-conte ... y-2014.pdf

There are a few issues though that I hear quite often where I can understand why these younger members have left the church because they feel like it was like they had no real logical choice but to leave.

• Members do not treat other members with Christlike love. Gossip, Nepotism, Caste system in the church, cult like culture, bullying. No difference between the world and the church. Bishoprics aren't doing anything about members that are causing these sinful issues.
• Church no longer allows younger members of the church in leadership positions. They feel left out in the decision making process.
• Hound the youth like it's a sin to use Facebook, Twitter and social media to talk to their friends yet don't have their own online social system to talk to other members of the church. Told the only productive reason to use social media is to spread the gospel.
• Deceptive church stats and no full disclosure of funds. By not doing so means they have something to hide.
• Temple ordinances: Doesn't allow non-temple worth members or non-members to attend marriage. Hidden Second Anointing ordinance. Changes to the temple ceremony over the years.
• Single members are treated as second-class members and aren't considered adults unless they are married and have children.

[Z2100]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

I think that Transparency is one of the main issues Millennials have. Church stats and tithing have always been secretive. Anything secretive or not available to public view is viewed with skepticism because there is a lot of corruption in the world in business and churches.

I personally believe that the reason the church is losing so many youth/millenials is it's own fault and the leaders of the church will be held accountable for the decisions they have made. There is so many things the church could have done to support these members over the years. Contrary to what the popular opinion is in this thread, Millennials are a neglected generation in various different ways than previous generations.

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens sums up the situation in our day, the same issues that were occurring in his day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Missionary exchanges in our area are focused on reactivating members. When we are able to talk with people about the issues they have, a lot of them are doctrine that we really can't dispute like: Word of Wisdom, LGBT, Law of Chastity, Polygamy, Priesthood for males only, ect.

There are a lot of points that are also brought up though where there are issues in the church. Almost all the issues come up on this list:
http://www.whymormonsleave.com/wp-conte ... y-2014.pdf

There are a few issues though that I hear quite often where I can understand why these younger members have left the church because they feel like it was like they had no real logical choice but to leave.

• Members do not treat other members with Christlike love. Gossip, Nepotism, Caste system in the church, cult like culture, bullying. No difference between the world and the church. Bishoprics aren't doing anything about members that are causing these sinful issues.
• Church no longer allows younger members of the church in leadership positions. They feel left out in the decision making process.
• Hound the youth like it's a sin to use Facebook, Twitter and social media to talk to their friends yet don't have their own online social system to talk to other members of the church. Told the only productive reason to use social media is to spread the gospel.
• Deceptive church stats and no full disclosure of funds. By not doing so means they have something to hide.
• Temple ordinances: Doesn't allow non-temple worth members or non-members to attend marriage. Hidden Second Anointing ordinance. Changes to the temple ceremony over the years.
• Single members are treated as second-class members and aren't considered adults unless they are married and have children.

Good research, indeed. When the destruction from the Lord's house sweeps through, the corrupted people will be gone...

[AI2.0]

The 3 main reasons people on the anti Mormon websites say they left the church
1. Joseph Smith and his wives
2. Treatment of blacks
3. treatment of gays

Many even imply the church is somehow not true now because of these arguments. So what if JS had many wives whether it was commanded or not, what does it matter. It wasnt Christ that restored the Church, JS was just a man. Does nothing for the argument against the church as a whole. I dont think anyone across the entire United States in the early 1800's wasnt "racist". Do people not know that they were once slaves? Why dont they denounce their government also? As far as the treatment of gays if you dont understand that, I cant help you, is no sense in even trying to explain.

Those are excuses. The reason they left the church is that they didn't have a testimony. If you have a testimony of Joseph Smith, that he was a prophet of God and restored the True church to the earth and the Book of Mormon is true; he translated the Book of Mormon by the power of God, then those three things aren't enough to make someone leave the church.

Look at the Catholic church and it's very very checkered past, yet millions of people remain practicing Catholics, because they still believe it's true. So, IMO, even if a member is disturbed by the way Joseph practiced polygamy, if they feel it was wrong that Blacks were denied priesthood for so many years and if they feel that Gays should be able to marry in the temple, still, that member won't leave the church, if they have a testimony and believe we have a living prophet, just like Catholics don't leave their faith because they think the Pope speaks for God, regardless of what was done in the past.

And frankly, I'm not surprised millenials aren't interested in religion. They've been on earth such a short time, they've had a very comfortable life so far, though we've lived with war for 16 years, we hardly feel it at home, except if we have loved ones serving in the military or gas prices go up. They take freedom and liberty for granted, they don't know what it's like to live otherwise--they vote for Socialists like Bernie Sanders and they vote in Socialist/Communist policies because they don't know any better. They buy and sell, they enjoy luxuries, endless self interest-- They have everything at their fingertips, the world revolves around them. But, I feel sorry for them, for they are not prepared for when things fall apart and that's where it looks like we're headed.

Because when we, as a Nation, turn from the values we were raised with, when we no longer 'serve the God of this land' then comes the removal of the blessings we've enjoyed and then come the cursings which come with turning away from our Judeo/Christian roots this country was founded on. The Millenials will likely bear the brunt of it.

[shadow]

But as you acknowledge unrighteous dominion, I will acknowledge dirty water.

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

[Rose Garden]

But as you acknowledge unrighteous dominion, I will acknowledge dirty water.

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

What is the church if not the people?

[AI2.0]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

I think that Transparency is one of the main issues Millennials have. Church stats and tithing have always been secretive. Anything secretive or not available to public view is viewed with skepticism because there is a lot of corruption in the world in business and churches.

I personally believe that the reason the church is losing so many youth/millenials is it's own fault and the leaders of the church will be held accountable for the decisions they have made. There is so many things the church could have done to support these members over the years. Contrary to what the popular opinion is in this thread, Millennials are a neglected generation in various different ways than previous generations.

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens sums up the situation in our day, the same issues that were occurring in his day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Missionary exchanges in our area are focused on reactivating members. When we are able to talk with people about the issues they have, a lot of them are doctrine that we really can't dispute like: Word of Wisdom, LGBT, Law of Chastity, Polygamy, Priesthood for males only, ect.

There are a lot of points that are also brought up though where there are issues in the church. Almost all the issues come up on this list:
http://www.whymormonsleave.com/wp-conte ... y-2014.pdf

There are a few issues though that I hear quite often where I can understand why these younger members have left the church because they feel like it was like they had no real logical choice but to leave.

• Members do not treat other members with Christlike love. Gossip, Nepotism, Caste system in the church, cult like culture, bullying. No difference between the world and the church. Bishoprics aren't doing anything about members that are causing these sinful issues.
• Church no longer allows younger members of the church in leadership positions. They feel left out in the decision making process.
• Hound the youth like it's a sin to use Facebook, Twitter and social media to talk to their friends yet don't have their own online social system to talk to other members of the church. Told the only productive reason to use social media is to spread the gospel.
• Deceptive church stats and no full disclosure of funds. By not doing so means they have something to hide.
• Temple ordinances: Doesn't allow non-temple worth members or non-members to attend marriage. Hidden Second Anointing ordinance. Changes to the temple ceremony over the years.
• Single members are treated as second-class members and aren't considered adults unless they are married and have children.

Some things on that list do not ring true.

Yes, they will leave church is they've been offended. That happens a lot.
The one about 'not allowing' younger people to serve in leadership--that's not true. If you live in the mission field, they'll use anyone who's willing. A lot aren't willing. A lot claim they want to serve, but when you give them callings, they don't do them. I guess they want the title but they don't want to do the work. That's a real problem among some members.

I don't know that anyone 'hounds' them about using social media, unless it's Pornography or if they are looking at Facebook, twitter during Sacrament meeting--then, they do get hounded. It's not the time for that, they should put it away during meetings.

Deceptive church stats and 'disclosure of funds'--this is an excuse. It's just jumping on the anti bandwagon. I don't think young people even pay attention to this, unless others in their social groups point it out and make it an issue--like City Creek Mall.

Temple ordinances--hidden second anointing? This can't be a big issue, they claim they don't even know about Joseph practicing polygamy, how would they know about the second anointing. And, they weren't around for the changes to the temple and millenials wouldn't have liked the things that were removed, so this doesn't make sense. This sounds made up--sounds like older people telling them what they ought to be upset about--like going to websites and learning about things and being told they should now have doubts.

Single members--that's a real concern. They don't feel a part of the church if they aren't married, but there isn't much that can be done about that--the church is about marriage and families.

So, I agree. They get offended so they leave and they don't feel a part of the church when they are single--they feel it doesn't meet their needs.

But, I'll tell you what I find in working with less actives and those who've left the church. They often leave because they don't want to be constrained by the LDS lifestyle. They don't want to attend three hours of church on Sundays, they don't want callings that take up their free time and they don't want to attend meetings with people they wouldn't choose to be friends with outside church. They are bored with the meetings and the lessons. They don't read scriptures at home or pray very often and soon they find that other interests, hobbies, recreational activities take their time and fill the void once church attendance is gone. They find they are happy so they don't feel a need to go back. Some will come up with excuses for why they left---like doctrinal things, or the Bishop was mean to them, etc. but personally, I think those are not the real reasons, it's a choice in how we spend our time and where our hearts and interests lie.

Also, a lot, while out in their everyday lives in the world, they often pick up vices--drugs, alcohol, other addictions... and these make them feel guilty, they take up their time and resources and they soon find they don't want to be at church or associate with other members.

I think that's the most common reason members leave. Those who really were happy in the church, even had a testimony, but actually lost their faith when they started studying doctrine, history--they don't happen that often, there are some, but IMO, not that many. There aren't that many members who actually take the time to really study the gospel, it's history etc AND they are still reading scriptures, serving in the church, attending the temple. Not too many in that boat, and if they are, they usually have a strong enough foundation that it won't destroy their testimony or take them out of the church.

[Rose Garden]

The 3 main reasons people on the anti Mormon websites say they left the church
1. Joseph Smith and his wives
2. Treatment of blacks
3. treatment of gays

Many even imply the church is somehow not true now because of these arguments. So what if JS had many wives whether it was commanded or not, what does it matter. It wasnt Christ that restored the Church, JS was just a man. Does nothing for the argument against the church as a whole. I dont think anyone across the entire United States in the early 1800's wasnt "racist". Do people not know that they were once slaves? Why dont they denounce their government also? As far as the treatment of gays if you dont understand that, I cant help you, is no sense in even trying to explain.

Those are excuses. The reason they left the church is that they didn't have a testimony. If you have a testimony of Joseph Smith, that he was a prophet of God and restored the True church to the earth and the Book of Mormon is true; he translated the Book of Mormon by the power of God, then those three things aren't enough to make someone leave the church.

Look at the Catholic church and it's very very checkered past, yet millions of people remain practicing Catholics, because they still believe it's true. So, IMO, even if a member is disturbed by the way Joseph practiced polygamy, if they feel it was wrong that Blacks were denied priesthood for so many years and if they feel that Gays should be able to marry in the temple, still, that member won't leave the church, if they have a testimony and believe we have a living prophet, just like Catholics don't leave their faith because they think the Pope speaks for God, regardless of what was done in the past.

And frankly, I'm not surprised millenials aren't interested in religion. They've been on earth such a short time, they've had a very comfortable life so far, though we've lived with war for 16 years, we hardly feel it at home, except if we have loved ones serving in the military or gas prices go up. They take freedom and liberty for granted, they don't know what it's like to live otherwise--they vote for Socialists like Bernie Sanders and they vote in Socialist/Communist policies because they don't know any better. They buy and sell, they enjoy luxuries, endless self interest-- They have everything at their fingertips, the world revolves around them. But, I feel sorry for them, for they are not prepared for when things fall apart and that's where it looks like we're headed.

Because when we, as a Nation, turn from the values we were raised with, when we no longer 'serve the God of this land' then comes the removal of the blessings we've enjoyed and then come the cursings which come with turning away from our Judeo/Christian roots this country was founded on. The Millenials will likely bear the brunt of it.

I consider the biggest disadvantage to be the disconnect between the people and the process by which the things they use to sustain their lives everyday are created. There are insights available that can only be discerned by getting your hands dirty, growing the food, slaughtering the animals for meat, etc. It's more than just skills to keep you alive. It's understanding the nature of God.

Unfortunately, the majority of people alive in the U.S. are disconnected from these processes and don't have a strong understanding of the eternal principles behind them. When I was in Korea, I pondered on the tendency of people in 3rd world circumstances to believe in some sort of God, if even just dumb idols. When you are dependent on the weather and nature to provide your daily substance, you believe in God, some sort of God. You know that there is power outside your own keeping you alive. We in the U.S. have been so long divorced from that process that most don't have that experience or the insights that come from it.

The Millenials are certainly one of the more advantaged groups ever in the world. However, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that they have less advantage than others when it comes to coping with things falling apart. I think that there will be a great deal of people who, when their world is falling apart and they can't get their God to listen to them despite their perfect church-attending record, are going to start asking some really deep questions. I don't believe any group is going to be spared from that.

[AI2.0]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

I think the stats for active LDS leaving who've served missions and married in the Temple and live in Mormon Enclaves, like Utah County, are a newer phenomenon. We've always had people go inactive, even over doctrines. But, the social pressure kept some in the church, IMO. Now that the social pressure is working against it, I think it's taking more out.
Worrying about Gays, is something new. People wouldn't have been upset about Gays even 15 years ago. But members are like other social humans, they want to be liked, admired and part of the group. If they are told they are mean, hateful and racist, they don't want to be part of that. They want to be part of the 'in' crowd, so they leave the church over gay issues even if they aren't gay themselves.

It's also very fashionable to be pro-abortion, pro-gender whatever, pro-socialist, pro-do whatever you want, anti-tradition, anti-conservative, anti-strong morals and standards. This doesn't fit with Gospel teachings and the LDS church, we're now considered not just old fashioned but 'racist' and hateful by the Social arbiters of today. You can see where young, easily influenced people can be pulled away from the church with that kind of social pressure on them. And they have their 'friends' on social media to put that pressure on them in ways earlier generations didn't have to deal with.

This isn't going to get better, if young people don't have strong testimonies and are willing to stand persecution, they are not going to stay in the church--and the older generations who aren't 'battle hardened' are going to leave too. I think it's part of the polarizing and separating in Society, but will also hit the church as well.

[Rose Garden]

Where are all these stats about members leaving the Church coming from ? As long as I've been a member of the Church, 57 years, I been aware of members leaving voluntarily.

I'm curious about that as well. I don't know for sure if more people are leaving or I'm just aware of more. But it seems to me there are more.

I think the stats for active LDS leaving who've served missions and married in the Temple and live in Mormon Enclaves, like Utah County, are a newer phenomenon. We've always had people go inactive, even over doctrines. But, the social pressure kept some in the church, IMO. Now that the social pressure is working against it, I think it's taking more out.
Worrying about Gays, is something new. People wouldn't have been upset about Gays even 15 years ago. But members are like other social humans, they want to be liked, admired and part of the group. If they are told they are mean, hateful and racist, they don't want to be part of that. They want to be part of the 'in' crowd, so they leave the church over gay issues even if they aren't gay themselves.

It's also very fashionable to be pro-abortion, pro-gender whatever, pro-socialist, pro-do whatever you want, anti-tradition, anti-conservative, anti-strong morals and standards. This doesn't fit with Gospel teachings and the LDS church, we're now considered not just old fashioned but 'racist' and hateful by the Social arbiters of today. You can see where young, easily influenced people can be pulled away from the church with that kind of social pressure on them. And they have their 'friends' on social media to put that pressure on them in ways earlier generations didn't have to deal with.

This isn't going to get better, if young people don't have strong testimonies and are willing to stand persecution, they are not going to stay in the church--and the older generations who aren't 'battle hardened' are going to leave too. I think it's part of the polarizing and separating in Society, but will also hit the church as well.

Well said.

[shadow]

But as you acknowledge unrighteous dominion, I will acknowledge dirty water.

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

What is the church if not the people?

Priesthood, authority, sealing power, ordinances, etc. etc. all of which God requires.

From the time of Adam there has been no perfect person save Jesus and yet God accomplishes His work using.... people.

Was Lehi perfect? No. Nephi? No. Peter? No. Moroni? No. Joseph Smith? No. Isaiah? No. Abraham? No. James? No. John? No. Brigham? No. Thomas Monson? No. Bishop whoever? No. Stake President whoever? No. Moses? No. And yet the purposes of God are getting accomplished.

[Rose Garden]

But as you acknowledge unrighteous dominion, I will acknowledge dirty water.

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

What is the church if not the people?

Priesthood, authority, sealing power, ordinances, etc. etc. all of which God requires.

From the time of Adam there has been no perfect person save Jesus and yet God accomplishes His work using.... people.

Was Lehi perfect? No. Nephi? No. Peter? No. Moroni? No. Joseph Smith? No. Isaiah? No. Abraham? No. James? No. John? No. Brigham? No. Thomas Monson? No. Bishop whoever? No. Stake President whoever? No. Moses? No. And yet the purposes of God are getting accomplished.

But priesthood, authority, sealing power, ordinances, all that involves people. I don't accept the notion that there have been no perfect people save Jesus on earth. The Bible says Noah was perfect. Jesus tells us to be perfect. I don't believe he would give us a command that we can't obtain. I would say that perhaps no one has the power to have been born and be perfect their entire lives, but I do believe that people can become perfect in this life. And I think it looks different than what we expect. I think we are foolish to divorce the "church" from the "people." I believe that when we do that, we deny valuable truths that we need to obtain salvation.

[shadow]

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

What is the church if not the people?

Priesthood, authority, sealing power, ordinances, etc. etc. all of which God requires.

From the time of Adam there has been no perfect person save Jesus and yet God accomplishes His work using.... people.

Was Lehi perfect? No. Nephi? No. Peter? No. Moroni? No. Joseph Smith? No. Isaiah? No. Abraham? No. James? No. John? No. Brigham? No. Thomas Monson? No. Bishop whoever? No. Stake President whoever? No. Moses? No. And yet the purposes of God are getting accomplished.

But priesthood, authority, sealing power, ordinances, all that involves people. I don't accept the notion that there have been no perfect people save Jesus on earth. The Bible says Noah was perfect. Jesus tells us to be perfect. I don't believe he would give us a command that we can't obtain. I would say that perhaps no one has the power to have been born and be perfect their entire lives, but I do believe that people can become perfect in this life. And I think it looks different than what we expect. I think we are foolish to divorce the "church" from the "people." I believe that when we do that, we deny valuable truths that we need to obtain salvation.

Still, don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people. Christianity is fraught with imperfect people. We, you and me and Marc and the offended people including, gasp, snowflakes! are all imperfect.

To those whom Marc was referring, those who feel justified leaving the church because of unrighteous dominion (which honestly isn't the reason people are leaving), those whom Marc suggested they not leave Christ because they've left the bathwater (leaving the church IS leaving a part of Christ) I suggest the following- Have charity for those who might not have treated you kindly. Forgive them. Remember that to be a saint might require long suffering. Don't be a victim. A victim mentality is of Satan himself. Strip the pride from your heart. Follow God, be an active participant of His church.

[BTH&T]

But as you acknowledge unrighteous dominion, I will acknowledge dirty water.

I think the difference is that most interpret your baby and bathwater (dirty water, like you said) as Christ being the baby and the church being the dirty water. As I said, I think that's where you and others err. The church belongs to Christ, it's His. Not throwing out the baby with the bathwater would more appropriately mean don't throw out Christ's church because of imperfect people.

What is the church if not the people?

The Church is the Lord's institution for administering His Gospel.
So many of the events that happened in the restoration of this dispensation (fullness of times) were the restoration of sacred Keys.
The Keys were restored one by one, by those that had authority of them, to Joseph Smith. Those are held today by those in The Lords Church.

I believe that the concept of Priesthood Authority is an issue that the world does not really grasp.
It does matter how one is Baptized and by what authority. Too many seem to have an attitude that it doesn't matter, as long as they "believe" but we have been taught by the Savoir "that unless one is Baptized" he/she can not enter into the kingdom. The Lord also showed the way in that He was baptized by the proper authority of that day by John the Baptist. So it is today as well.

The Church is needed to administer the Gospel, and all there is on this earth are imperfect beings to fill the needs of The Lords Church.
No one is perfect, as much as we should strive to be, so grateful for repentance and the Savoir's Atonement that enables us to be cleansed.
So many times we must look past the short comings of others to move forward.
I think that's a reason the Savior said it was necessary to forgive ALL. He gave no exceptions on who we forgive.

I've struggled with this, that I'm not perfect so why try.
I know this is satan's way of getting me to stop trying. If I do that he wins. He is very effective in today's world.
This is another reason we have so many leave the Church, they look for perfection, but it is not in the people.
Satan wins when we do not forgive and look to the proper path to return.

This is not to judge anyone, all generations must deal with this.
Now it seems to be easier to talk with others and we complain sometimes when we should pray for strength to see what the Lords got in store for each of us. His Church is where he wants us to be and serve others, as imperfect as we are.

[JohnnyL]

...
I think that Transparency is one of the main issues Millennials have. Church stats and tithing have always been secretive. Anything secretive or not available to public view is viewed with skepticism because there is a lot of corruption in the world in business and churches.

I personally believe that the reason the church is losing so many youth/millenials is it's own fault and the leaders of the church will be held accountable for the decisions they have made. There is so many things the church could have done to support these members over the years. Contrary to what the popular opinion is in this thread, Millennials are a neglected generation in various different ways than previous generations.

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens sums up the situation in our day, the same issues that were occurring in his day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Missionary exchanges in our area are focused on reactivating members. When we are able to talk with people about the issues they have, a lot of them are doctrine that we really can't dispute like: Word of Wisdom, LGBT, Law of Chastity, Polygamy, Priesthood for males only, ect.

There are a lot of points that are also brought up though where there are issues in the church. Almost all the issues come up on this list:
http://www.whymormonsleave.com/wp-conte ... y-2014.pdf

There are a few issues though that I hear quite often where I can understand why these younger members have left the church because they feel like it was like they had no real logical choice but to leave.

• [1]Members do not treat other members with Christlike love. Gossip, Nepotism, Caste system in the church, cult like culture, bullying. No difference between the world and the church. Bishoprics aren't doing anything about members that are causing these sinful issues.
  [2]Church no longer allows younger members of the church in leadership positions. They feel left out in the decision making process.
  [3]Hound the youth like it's a sin to use Facebook, Twitter and social media to talk to their friends yet don't have their own online social system to talk to other members of the church. Told the only productive reason to use social media is to spread the gospel.
  [4]Deceptive church stats and no full disclosure of funds. By not doing so means they have something to hide.
  [5]Temple ordinances: Doesn't allow non-temple worth members or non-members to attend marriage. Hidden Second Anointing ordinance. Changes to the temple ceremony over the years.
  [6]Single members are treated as second-class members and aren't considered adults unless they are married and have children.

Ok, and I've just seen that AI 2.0 already responded well... Anyway, I'll leave this up.

Transparency is a problem, but it's much more perceived than real. I'd say when people talk about transparency, it's more an attitude by leaders of "I don't care enough to research and learn more" as a sign of "plausible deniability" from leaders. It's like when you talk to someone about a problem and they kind of throw you off with "Oh yeah, blah blah blah" and nothing of what they are saying has any real connection to your problem and you just want to grab them by the shoulders and shake them out of their politicalness and say, "LISTEN!"

I agree much with AI 2.0 that the problem is mainly testimony, but... there are definitely things that could be very helpful.

ALL of those problems mentioned can not only be disputed, but answered decently convincingly. It WOULD be more helpful for leaders to get it right ahead of time, and get better information (good information usually helps inspiration). And it would help to counter some things nicely but straight on and forcefully.

I can only think that the first on the list is really problematic.
I have no idea what 2 is even referring to.
Three is more "right time, right place--and three hours of FB during church is NOT it", nor is hours a day playing video games, especially when your grades are falling, you can't connect or even talk to people face to face, etc.
Four--church stats are pretty open; the funds part isn't coming out, and it shouldn't.
Five isn't much of a problem for anyone who basically understands (has a basic testimony).
Six--well, I think it goes back to one. I don't see it as a problem much where I've been.

[Z2100]

...
I think that Transparency is one of the main issues Millennials have. Church stats and tithing have always been secretive. Anything secretive or not available to public view is viewed with skepticism because there is a lot of corruption in the world in business and churches.

I personally believe that the reason the church is losing so many youth/millenials is it's own fault and the leaders of the church will be held accountable for the decisions they have made. There is so many things the church could have done to support these members over the years. Contrary to what the popular opinion is in this thread, Millennials are a neglected generation in various different ways than previous generations.

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens sums up the situation in our day, the same issues that were occurring in his day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Missionary exchanges in our area are focused on reactivating members. When we are able to talk with people about the issues they have, a lot of them are doctrine that we really can't dispute like: Word of Wisdom, LGBT, Law of Chastity, Polygamy, Priesthood for males only, ect.

There are a lot of points that are also brought up though where there are issues in the church. Almost all the issues come up on this list:
http://www.whymormonsleave.com/wp-conte ... y-2014.pdf

There are a few issues though that I hear quite often where I can understand why these younger members have left the church because they feel like it was like they had no real logical choice but to leave.

• [1]Members do not treat other members with Christlike love. Gossip, Nepotism, Caste system in the church, cult like culture, bullying. No difference between the world and the church. Bishoprics aren't doing anything about members that are causing these sinful issues.
  [2]Church no longer allows younger members of the church in leadership positions. They feel left out in the decision making process.
  [3]Hound the youth like it's a sin to use Facebook, Twitter and social media to talk to their friends yet don't have their own online social system to talk to other members of the church. Told the only productive reason to use social media is to spread the gospel.
  [4]Deceptive church stats and no full disclosure of funds. By not doing so means they have something to hide.
  [5]Temple ordinances: Doesn't allow non-temple worth members or non-members to attend marriage. Hidden Second Anointing ordinance. Changes to the temple ceremony over the years.
  [6]Single members are treated as second-class members and aren't considered adults unless they are married and have children.

Ok, and I've just seen that AI 2.0 already responded well... Anyway, I'll leave this up.

Transparency is a problem, but it's much more perceived than real. I'd say when people talk about transparency, it's more an attitude by leaders of "I don't care enough to research and learn more" as a sign of "plausible deniability" from leaders. It's like when you talk to someone about a problem and they kind of throw you off with "Oh yeah, blah blah blah" and nothing of what they are saying has any real connection to your problem and you just want to grab them by the shoulders and shake them out of their politicalness and say, "LISTEN!"

I agree much with AI 2.0 that the problem is mainly testimony, but... there are definitely things that could be very helpful.

ALL of those problems mentioned can not only be disputed, but answered decently convincingly. It WOULD be more helpful for leaders to get it right ahead of time, and get better information (good information usually helps inspiration). And it would help to counter some things nicely but straight on and forcefully.

I can only think that the first on the list is really problematic.
I have no idea what 2 is even referring to.
Three is more "right time, right place--and three hours of FB during church is NOT it", nor is hours a day playing video games, especially when your grades are falling, you can't connect or even talk to people face to face, etc.
Four--church stats are pretty open; the funds part isn't coming out, and it shouldn't.
Five isn't much of a problem for anyone who basically understands (has a basic testimony).
Six--well, I think it goes back to one. I don't see it as a problem much where I've been.

Same.

[marc]

Shadow, I get what you're saying. My plea is not to those who seek to justify themselves. That's not what Christ was about and that's not what I'm about either. But if people lose hope in Christ because they lost hope in the church, then where is there hope to be found? Who will reclaim them? If they can be persuaded not to leave Christ, then they can be persuaded to repent and be healed, and maybe even be reconciled with those who hurt them, especially by those in the "church."

[drtanner]

Alma 23: 6 And as sure as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth, as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away.

4th Nephi
15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.

16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.

Why were they so happy? Because of the love of God in that did dwell in there hearts. How did they receive the love of God in their hearts?

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

We can treat the symptoms with programs and papers or we can treat the problem with the Doctrine of Christ. We are never successful long term until we teach the doctrine of Christ with power. He is the only way.

[marc]

Alma 23: 6 And as sure as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth, as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away.

4th Nephi
15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.

16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.

Why were they so happy? Because of the love of God in that did dwell in there hearts. How did they receive the love of God in their hearts?

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

We can treat the symptoms with programs and papers or we can treat the problem with the Doctrine of Christ. We are never successful long term until we teach the doctrine of Christ with power. He is the only way.

This brings me full circle to my post about holding Jesus Christ up as the light. Beautiful post, drtanner, thank you.

[Kitkat]

No matter what we think...

"Gotta love millennials... Please pray for millennials..."

[Gage]

Whats going on is in the scriptures and told would happen. Holding on to the rod. You either follow Christ or follow the world (abominable church of the devil).

[Goonerboy]

Any time that the Church ceases preaching sound doctrine, and the parents stop preaching sound doctrine to the children, you see a slowdown and even a reversal of Church growth.

Any time when the Church is unapologetic in preaching the sound doctrine, and the parents preach it to their children, you see rapid growth in the Church.

The Church grew A LOT MORE in the years of David O McKay, Spencer W Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, and even Gordon B HInckley.

Whatever, Millenials are taught from birth that homosexuality is ok and normal. So they agree with what their friends believe and not some bigot religion that says its sin. Many of these members that leave the church because (the church hates gays) or (the church practiced polygamy) are the same members that never had much of a testimony to begin with. They went to church and saw a lovely social scene with nice people and it looked like fun. They didnt join for the church teachings, they joined for somewhere to hang out and socialize. They get baptized without knowing a thing about the gospel.

In and out of the Church (LDS) Parents often fail to teach their Children the ways of the Lord and want to be "Their Friends" and not the kind of Parents the Lord wants them to be to raise their Children in righteousness. Then as the kids grow up and start rebelling the Parents look at each other and ask "How did this Happen? "
I have two Teenage Boys and the oldest is waiting on his Mission call and it has been a long hard slog raising them right and they have their own testimonies and love the Gospel. I am a convert of 39 years and joined as a 16 year old and once I knew for myself that the Gospel was true I said to my then Bishop I do not care if everyone here hates me as I come to Church for my Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and if people like me that is a bonus. I have taught my boys to always remember what they know and build on their own testimonies and to focus on Christ and his teachings and they will never go wrong. The Brethren tell us not to look beyond the mark and yet so many do. The Church is true no matter what is said and done by others. There has always been dissenters just look in the Book of Mormon. We need to be like Nephi when he noticed those in the large and spacious building scoffing at him when he said "And we heeded them not".