Are we sinning enough yet?

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Gage
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Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Gage »

The scriptures tell us how evil the generation will be in the last days and clearly we are headed in that direction if not there but I wonder if we havent seen the half of it yet. A man can marry a man and there is plenty of adultery, sex and persecution going around but is it just a fraction of what is to come? I wonder how much worse it needs to get for the Lord to say thats enough or has he already had this thought. I know many things must happen before the Lord comes but I wonder if this generation is close to the evil that was said it would be.

Sunain
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Sunain »

I've often thought about what is God's Red line. He seems to be very tolerant with not interfering with sin or sinners because that would be counter to free agency. There seems to be multiple times though in history and recorded in the scriptures where civilizations were wiped out because of iniquity. Jerusalem, Pompeii and even more recently New Orleans were destroyed due to inequity. The world would have people believe that these were natural disasters or influenced by invading armies.

eddie
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by eddie »

I sin in the choir every week, even though I don't have a good voice.

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h_p
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by h_p »

Sunain wrote: May 8th, 2017, 11:46 am I've often thought about what is God's Red line. He seems to be very tolerant with not interfering with sin or sinners because that would be counter to free agency.
Killing His elect and stoning the prophets seem to be the big ones. He intervenes in order to fulfill the covenants He has made. Those covenants generally include temporal protection, as well as spiritual (2 Nephi 1 is a good example).

simpleton
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by simpleton »

3rd Nephi 9

3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.

4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.

5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.

6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;

7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.

8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them.

9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.

10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.

11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them.


Last paragraph.. maybe that's the "red line"

simpleton
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by simpleton »

The United States government and some states governments are guilty to a certain degree of the above quoted in 3rd Nephi chapter 9 as prophets and saints have been killed, plundered, robbed, raped, and drivin from their legally owned titled property, then ultimately driven from civilization.

Z2100
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Z2100 »

Gage wrote: May 8th, 2017, 10:29 am The scriptures tell us how evil the generation will be in the last days and clearly we are headed in that direction if not there but I wonder if we havent seen the half of it yet. A man can marry a man and there is plenty of adultery, sex and persecution going around but is it just a fraction of what is to come? I wonder how much worse it needs to get for the Lord to say thats enough or has he already had this thought. I know many things must happen before the Lord comes but I wonder if this generation is close to the evil that was said it would be.

I'm sorry to say that we still have even more crazy things headed our way in the next 13 years. There will be things we can't imagine or haven't thought about. But I can guarantee when one of our prophets or general authorities are assassinated, the Lord will begin to preach his own sermons...

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LatterDayLizard
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by LatterDayLizard »

eddie wrote: May 8th, 2017, 11:53 am I sin in the choir every week, even though I don't have a good voice.
I think you mean "vice". :))

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Rose Garden
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Rose Garden »

From what I understand, people can do whatever they want, even kill, rape, and steal, without heavenly interference so long as they aren't molesting the saints of God. Those who don't turn to the Lord are subject to the law of "survival of the fittest." Only those who turn to God receive God's protection and justice.

tjtax06
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by tjtax06 »

In a recent stake conference the area authority seventy quoted an apostle about this very issue. He said the apostle said the world doesn't need to become more wicked for the Savior to return, the saints need to become more righteous.

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nightlight
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by nightlight »

Law and order keeps most of the worst sins in check but once we lose that privilege/blessing from God then comes the murder of holy men/women. Don't think for a second​ that it wouldn't be happening all over the usa​ if there wasn't threat of the death penalty or life in prison

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lemuel
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by lemuel »

Gage wrote: May 8th, 2017, 10:29 am The scriptures tell us how evil the generation will be in the last days and clearly we are headed in that direction if not there but I wonder if we havent seen the half of it yet. A man can marry a man and there is plenty of adultery, sex and persecution going around but is it just a fraction of what is to come? I wonder how much worse it needs to get for the Lord to say thats enough or has he already had this thought. I know many things must happen before the Lord comes but I wonder if this generation is close to the evil that was said it would be.
It can get worse:
(Trigger warning for the easily offended or people who can't handle really awful music)
You seriously can't unsee that.

brianj
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by brianj »

Sunain wrote: May 8th, 2017, 11:46 am I've often thought about what is God's Red line. He seems to be very tolerant with not interfering with sin or sinners because that would be counter to free agency. There seems to be multiple times though in history and recorded in the scriptures where civilizations were wiped out because of iniquity. Jerusalem, Pompeii and even more recently New Orleans were destroyed due to inequity. The world would have people believe that these were natural disasters or influenced by invading armies.
New Orleans hasn't been destroyed. I was there not too long ago and have a relative who was there last month. The lower 9th ward was destroyed, but there wasn't even any flooding in the French Quarter after Katrina.

And I recall a general authority teaching that natural disasters don't strike with surgical precision to eliminate only the wicked; they strike the whole planet as a testimony and a warning.

And to the OP: yes, things can get a lot worse. Now that homosexuals can do pretty much whatever they want pedophiles are starting to try to legitimize their perversion, which would also legitimize hebephilia and ephebophilia. I know someone who is active in the polyamorous lifestyle. Many leftists, including fourth wave feminists, have a goal of destroying the nuclear family. Greed, hypergamy, and materialism are already doing a good job of tearing many families apart, and in response the MGTOW movement is convincing an increasing number of men to not even bother with relationships. But there are plenty of people who want to prevent marriage from ever happening and who don't want babies to be raised by their parent. There are many attacks on freedom of religion and those attacks are increasing. I also know a lot of people who believe freedom of speech should be repealed because it allows for freedom of religious speech. I know stories of students being subject to school discipline for wearing a shirt with a religious logo, wearing religious artifacts such as crosses, or for praying on campus. A group is trying to establish Satan Clubs on public school campuses, claiming that they don't believe in God or Satan and that they are trying to counter the "tyranny" of religious organizations.

This list barely scratches the surface. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I used to believe that the prophecy stating that in the last days the faithful would pray day and night for deliverance was related to persecution, but now I am convinced that the faithful will soon be praying for deliverance from the ever increasing wickedness surrounding us.

eddie
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by eddie »

LatterDayLizard wrote: May 8th, 2017, 2:04 pm
eddie wrote: May 8th, 2017, 11:53 am I sin in the choir every week, even though I don't have a good voice.
I think you mean "vice". :))
LOL!!

Gage
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Gage »

Well I asked one of my mentors and they say although evil and sin will be ripe, it may not be any worse than today, reason for the saying "all is well in Zion". The main tipping point will be the fact this country will be pretty close to being Communist if not full fledged Socialist. This makes sense because this would be the very reason the Lord would need to step in and start his new government.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Rose Garden »

Gage wrote: May 9th, 2017, 7:57 am Well I asked one of my mentors and they say although evil and sin will be ripe, it may not be any worse than today, reason for the saying "all is well in Zion". The main tipping point will be the fact this country will be pretty close to being Communist if not full fledged Socialist. This makes sense because this would be the very reason the Lord would need to step in and start his new government.
Good point.

Matchmaker
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Matchmaker »

tjtax06 wrote: May 8th, 2017, 5:46 pm In a recent stake conference the area authority seventy quoted an apostle about this very issue. He said the apostle said the world doesn't need to become more wicked for the Savior to return, the saints need to become more righteous.
Amen!

lundbaek
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by lundbaek »

"...the Lord would need to step in and start his new government." That phrase reminds me that much of the sin of which I believe most Latter-day Saints are guilty are sins of omission. And since "The LDS Freedom Forum exists to provide an online home for individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ - [and[ this includes a myriad of topics related to the Gospel of Liberty (as some prophets have described the Gospel of Jesus Christ) and more.", I'll venture to suggest that among the sins of omission of which I believe most LDSs are guilty are:

1.) failure oi\r refusal to "learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers" as the Prophet at the time, President Benson told us in October 1987 that we "must" do,

2.) failure to do anything about Mormon's warning in Ether 8, of which President Packer tried to warn us in 2007 and again in the August 2010 Ensign,

3.) failure or refusal to educate ourselves on the things we have been commanded learn of in D&C 88:79, as President Uchtdorf reminded us in the 2009 General Conference,, and in D&C 93:53

I believe that if lots more LDS people complied with these commandments ( and like it or not, I consider them commandments ) and stepped in and acted on the knowledge one could acquire from obedience to them, the Lord would be more willing to step in and help us restore to the USA the constitutional republican government He intended us to live under and to encourage people in other lands to demand.

GeeR
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by GeeR »

"For the saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost, because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand when yet there was time." George Sutherland

onefour1
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by onefour1 »

Before Trump, it was rumored in some political youtube videos that the next push after legalizing homosexuality was to legalize pedophilia. How depraved it that?

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captainfearnot
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by captainfearnot »

What if we're sinning more in some areas but less in others? That would balance out, wouldn't it? The total quantity of sin on the planet might not be going up after all.

Slavery is evil, and historically has been a worldwide institution. It's now almost gone (at least compared to past centuries). So in a world largely free of legal and sanctioned human slavery, how much legal and sanctioned gay marriage would there have to be just to get us back to the same level of evil as when slavery was at its peak?

I think it's human nature to notice (and worry about) the things that are getting worse, but not notice things that are getting better. So it will always appear that the world is getting worse and worse, as different sins take center stage over the years. But unless we had some way to quantify total evil in the world, there's no way to tell if our perceptions are accurate.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Rose Garden »

captainfearnot wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:56 pm What if we're sinning more in some areas but less in others? That would balance out, wouldn't it? The total quantity of sin on the planet might not be going up after all.

Slavery is evil, and historically has been a worldwide institution. It's now almost gone (at least compared to past centuries). So in a world largely free of legal and sanctioned human slavery, how much legal and sanctioned gay marriage would there have to be just to get us back to the same level of evil as when slavery was at its peak?

I think it's human nature to notice (and worry about) the things that are getting worse, but not notice things that are getting better. So it will always appear that the world is getting worse and worse, as different sins take center stage over the years. But unless we had some way to quantify total evil in the world, there's no way to tell if our perceptions are accurate.
I don't think slavery is almost gone. I just think it went underground.

Z2100
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by Z2100 »

onefour1 wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:39 pm Before Trump, it was rumored in some political youtube videos that the next push after legalizing homosexuality was to legalize pedophilia. How depraved it that?


That is WAY deprived. If the law is passed, expect to see mass migrations from California to other states. The Lord will probably sink California after that...

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WhereCanITurn4Peace
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by WhereCanITurn4Peace »

Meili wrote: May 10th, 2017, 2:18 pm I don't think slavery is almost gone. I just think it went underground.
So true. Trafficking statistics are horrific, especially that of children (particularly in third world countries where impoverished parents sell their kids)

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JK4Woods
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Re: Are we sinning enough yet?

Post by JK4Woods »

GeeR wrote: May 9th, 2017, 3:07 pm "For the saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost, because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand when yet there was time." George Sutherland
"...if nothing else, he hoped they [the people of the USA] learned that Freedoms were easy to surrender but hard to reclaim..." Arthur T. Bradley


"Don't give up Freedom piecemeal, or by inch by inch encroachment. Be on guard and realize the price of Freedom is blood" John L. Woods

Liberty and freedom is paramount and part & parcel of Agency.

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