Dreams and Dreamers

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
Gage
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Posts: 702

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Gage »

It really is a shame that a few people out to get gain and profit off selling books could deceive otherwise faithful good saints. I have never read any of the books but I hear people mention a call out and tent cities. I assume they are telling people that a horn will blow and saints are to trek it out to Zion to be saved. This type of thing leads saints to stop doing what they should be dong to be "saved" and instead thinking all they need to do is have their camping supplies ready and at the door. While we all need to have emergency supplies at home, having all this at the front door ready to go to be called out is not what is going to determine if you will be safe or not. How you are living your life today will determine where you end up. "Zion" is a pure heart. Running to a place called Zion and huddling up in a tent is not going to save you from God's wrath. Your rightesnous is the only thing that can save you from God's wrath. People think that just being a Mormon is all they need to be saved from all the doom. They will call all of the Mormons out and we will be fine and protected. Nonsense. The Lord is actually going to change the name of his church because of the disgust he will have with the "Mormons." All the doom is actually going to begin with the Mormons and in his house. We need to be worried about living the Gospel, not lying to get a temple reccomend (as these people will be the first to burn), living the commandments and so forth not worrying about what Julie Rowe tells you to do. The Lord does not talk to these people. The Lord would never tell anyone other than the prophet to warn us of anything.

lone-knight
captain of 50
Posts: 74

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by lone-knight »

I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by EmmaLee »

I have heard many times (sorry, don't have any sources handy) that the 2nd Coming actually started with the First Vision Joseph had in the Sacred Grove in the spring of 1820. That was the 1st appearance - one of many - that would comprise what we call the "2nd Coming". Which, if true, would go a long way in explaining why people have been told, ever since then, that they would be alive at the 2nd Coming - because, they were. Anyone born from 1820 onward would, technically, "be alive" to see the 2nd Coming.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by brianj »

Gage wrote: May 10th, 2017, 10:46 am It really is a shame that a few people out to get gain and profit off selling books could deceive otherwise faithful good saints. I have never read any of the books but I hear people mention a call out and tent cities. I assume they are telling people that a horn will blow and saints are to trek it out to Zion to be saved. This type of thing leads saints to stop doing what they should be dong to be "saved" and instead thinking all they need to do is have their camping supplies ready and at the door. While we all need to have emergency supplies at home, having all this at the front door ready to go to be called out is not what is going to determine if you will be safe or not. How you are living your life today will determine where you end up. "Zion" is a pure heart. Running to a place called Zion and huddling up in a tent is not going to save you from God's wrath. Your rightesnous is the only thing that can save you from God's wrath. People think that just being a Mormon is all they need to be saved from all the doom. They will call all of the Mormons out and we will be fine and protected. Nonsense. The Lord is actually going to change the name of his church because of the disgust he will have with the "Mormons." All the doom is actually going to begin with the Mormons and in his house. We need to be worried about living the Gospel, not lying to get a temple reccomend (as these people will be the first to burn), living the commandments and so forth not worrying about what Julie Rowe tells you to do. The Lord does not talk to these people. The Lord would never tell anyone other than the prophet to warn us of anything.
I believe that your conclusion that such teachings leads saints to stop doing what they should be doing only applies to slothful and lazy saints.
I heard from someone recently who described a modern day Zoramite, using her chair in Gospel Doctrine class as a rameumptom to proclaim how grateful she is that God hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by His wrath down to hell. I've heard from others who misunderstand D&C 132 to the point where they are convinced that since they were sealed in a temple, and they felt the Spirit during that sealing, they are sealed up for exaltation and it doesn't matter what they do in this life. But the number of people in these two categories is dwarfed by the number of people who have a very casual attitude toward their religion, who come to church on Sunday and think they are hearing good teachings but don't bother applying those teachings in their lives.

I expect many of you to disagree with me, but I believe that the people who are using latter-day dreamers as an excuse to ignore the commandments would find some other excuse if they hadn't come across the dreamers.

I also believe that an important part of your righteousness saving you from God's wrath is obediently doing what the Holy Ghost and church leaders counsel. If, as happened several times in the scriptures, there really will be a gathering at the beginning of the tribulations and someone ignores guidance to flee to a place of refuge before their current environment becomes unsafe and they ignore that buidance, they have little claim on divine aid for help when they rejected preemptive help.

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Sarah
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Posts: 6705

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Sarah »

lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...
I wouldn't even bother trying to convince her that the tent-city scenario won't happen. I think you can acknowledge that even if it happens someday, we don't know when it will happen, and so we also need to live and plan for it not happening anytime soon. I would just try to compromise until she calms down.

Are you both going out on dates and doing fun things together? You could try to distract her by helping her enjoy just being with you, doing something fun. If all she wants to talk about is end-days stuff on your dates, talk about it briefly, then try to talk about something else.

As for those who predict timing - it is one thing for someone to put forth their best guess a time or two, but both Julie and Hector repeatedly assured their readers that they knew certain events would happen at certain times. And all their predictions failed. I gave you a link a few months ago for something I wrote up detailing the evidence I found against Julie on the AVOW forum. Try having your wife read this: http://www.docdroid.net/negu/red-flags.odt.html

I'm dealing with someone in my life right now that is really trying my patience and so I can understand to a degree what you are going through. The Lord uses the word "pity" to describe how he feels about us, and I think that is a good way we can look at those who we have trouble with. We can show forth compassion, sympathy, and "pity," as we patiently wait for them to mature. Some may never change, but we will have grown in the process of letting others test us as we pass the test.

DesertWonderer
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Posts: 1178

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by DesertWonderer »

lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real? 800-5000 LDS people a year commit adultery. Does that mean it's a good thing? No ordained leader of the church has ever said anything about tent-cities--it's a philosophy of men.

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...They received the timing of the events from the same vision / spirit that showed them the events. The timing is wrong and therefore the events shown were false too.

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...I'm not totally clear what you mean here but I'll take a stab at it anyway...You should find out from whom she will be requesting the blessing and go to them and explain the situation. With the proper background, hopefully they will understand what not to do and what to do in this situation (i.e. suggest she go seek counseling). You could also show her the quote from the apostle (sorry can't remember who said it) that one blessing is enough.

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by brlenox »

lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?
From the broadcast Israel, Israel God is Calling - Jeffrey R. Holland:

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... g?lang=eng

For tonight’s purpose I remind you of one last flight, the flight for which our hymn tonight was actually written. It was our own Church, led by our own prophets, leading our own religious ancestors. With Joseph Smith being hounded through the states of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Missouri, and finally being murdered in Illinois, we were to see the latter-day reenactment of Israel’s children again seeking for a place of seclusion.

Brigham Young, the American Moses, as he has been admiringly called, led the Saints to the valleys of the mountains as those foot-weary Saints sang:
We’ll find the place which God for us prepared,
Far away in the West,
Where none shall come to hurt or make afraid;
There the Saints will be blessed. 10

Zion. The promised land. The New Jerusalem. Where is it? Well, we are not sure, but we will find it. For more than 4,000 years of covenantal history, this has been the pattern: Flee and seek. Run and settle. Escape Babylon. Build Zion’s protective walls.

Until now. Until tonight. Until this our day. Our Call Is to Build Zion Where We Are

One of the many unique characteristics of our dispensation, this the dispensation of the fulness of times—the last and greatest of all dispensations—is the changing nature of how we establish the kingdom of God on earth. You see, one of the truly exciting things about this dispensation is that it is a time of mighty, accelerated change. And one thing that has changed is that the Church of God will never again flee. It will never again leave Ur in order to leave Haran, in order to leave Canaan, in order to leave Jerusalem, in order to leave England, in order to leave Kirtland, in order to leave Nauvoo, in order to go who knows where. No, as Brigham Young said for us all, “We have been kicked out of the frying-pan into the fire, out of the fire into the middle of the floor, and here we are and here we will stay.” 11

Of course, that statement wasn’t a comment about the Salt Lake Valley only or even the Wasatch Front generally; it became a statement for the members of the Church all over the world. In these last days, in this our dispensation, we would become mature enough to stop running. We would become mature enough to plant our feet and our families and our foundations in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people permanently. Zion would be everywhere—wherever the Church is. And with that change—one of the mighty changes of the last days—we no longer think of Zion as where we are going to live; we think of it as how we are going to live.

BackBlast
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Posts: 570

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by BackBlast »

I would like to point out that there does not need to be a conflict between
- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?
and
...
as Brigham Young said for us all, “We have been kicked out of the frying-pan into the fire, out of the fire into the middle of the floor, and here we are and here we will stay"
....
In these last days, in this our dispensation, we would become mature enough to stop running.
...
He does not say every member will always stay where they are. This is general council, not specific or individual council. The scriptures are full of individuals and groups being removed and relocated for various purposes despite differing general injunctions on the rest of those people. It wasn't for everyone at Jerusalem to go to America when Lehi left, there remained other righteous people there.

The important question is, what does the Lord want of me and my house? And staying put, relocation, a refuge, a tent, the in-laws house, abject homelessness, or sickness and death may be part of your individual plan. Any route the Lord has in mind for you will refine you, help you, and redeem if you if you are willing.

I have seen some things, I have my own dreams, visions, promises, messages and comforts granted to me.

In my view. I believe that a majority of saints will remain in place and Elder Holland's remarks are 100% accurate. The majority of saints will also endure great hardship from the scourge for our general disobedience and that we may be made pure, as a group, and become acceptable to the Lord. If you wish to avoid the hardest parts of the scourge, it has less to do with a potential relocation than already being righteous and not needing it to humble and refine you. If you do need this refining, accept it, let it bring you low in humility and repentance. Rejoice in a Lord who knows you personally and individually to take such care and attention to your personal growth and salvation.

Some people will be relocated, in the time and at the will of the Lord. I have learned for myself that I will be one of those, I was told some things to prepare for it, and that I need to do it. I do not know where or how or when or why. I have personal speculations but I've learned not to hold onto those very tightly. I also know that some of my family will die, and it is for the salvation of my family. This path is right for me and mine, and will give us collectively the greatest eternal benefits. The death(s) will cause me great sorrow and hardship but I was given the why of that and was given promises of the comforts that would follow to help me.

Because I have learned these things for myself, for my personal path, I believe that the Lord will do so for every saint so inclined to know for themselves. I do not have it all spelled out, but I have a few of the important steps illuminated before me. Which is the right of every head of household to know for his own family. When you open that conduit for personal revelation and direction, you will cease to be agitated by the unease and speculations by fellow saints. Show forth your faith and build upon the rock and then let the storms come, beat and howl.

brianj
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Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by brianj »

Sarah wrote: May 10th, 2017, 9:00 pm I wouldn't even bother trying to convince her that the tent-city scenario won't happen. I think you can acknowledge that even if it happens someday, we don't know when it will happen, and so we also need to live and plan for it not happening anytime soon. I would just try to compromise until she calms down.
This!

I do believe that a gathering will happen, and I have believed this long before I heard anybody claim to dream about it. But preparing for a gathering needs to be done exactly the same as preparing for a tornado or earthquake. If you decide there's nothing to worry about until Doppler radar shows a hook echo or you hear a disconcerting low rumbling, you will find the time for preparation has passed. But if you stop doing everything and hide in your safe room you'll find the stored food runs out as quickly as your money runs out, and you'll find your house being foreclosed on.

I did listen to one of the dreamers claiming to have foreseen a gathering to communities living in tents. (S)he explicitly said that while we should prepare, we should not fear and we shouldn't do anything until we receive word from priesthood leaders. Since then I've heard of people who listened to the same message panic buying food storage and moving to small mountain communities to be prepositioned and have a nice home to live in while everyone else is living in tents. This is, as Elder Cook said and I'll bet the dreamer I listened to would agree, looking beyond the mark.

Gage
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Posts: 702

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Gage »

The problem with following these "self proclaimed prophets" is that you are waiting on things to happen as they say they are going to happen. It would not surprise me at all if some saints will be in the midst of Christ and not believe it because Julie Rowe said they would be in tents first. People are leading themselves to their own doom by following these "false prophets". It will be like a "thief in the night" for some because they will still be looking for the signs that Julie Rowe told them of.

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Mark
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6929

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Mark »

lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...

I'm sure that there are 800-5000 LDS people who attend R rated movies or watch inappropriate content on TV or look at inappropriate stuff on the internet as well. Actually probably a heck of a lot more than 800-5000. Does that justify doing it to? I see so much confirmation bias going on with people. They look for anything and everything to confirm to them what they already believe themselves to be gospel truth. They will twist it and shape it every which way to conform with their worldview. Yet time and again history proves out the point that most of us are clueless when it comes to predicting specifics concerning future events. Heck I remember in the early 2000's reading on forums like Roger Youngs that by now 2017 we would all be reading our scriptures by flashlight up at the local girls camp. Yet here we are still in houses and apartments with electricity. Not 1 in 10 of the tent city advocates in those forums would have believed todays reality at that time.

Having said that tent cities are a reality for many who live in 3rd world situations. If we had a major economic crash here in the west how many would be scrambling to find shelter after their houses were foreclosed upon or their jobs were eliminated and Uncle Sam couldnt bail them out because of massive govt debt that became unserviceable. Venezuela anyone? I see makeshift tents set up all the time here in downtown SLC housing 100's of homeless people who dont want to go into the shelters. That could spread rapidly to many areas all over the country if all the welfare and social security checks stopped coming. It would be pandamonia in our spoiled expectant western culture. Millions upon millions of People in this country would be paralyzed in fear if they couldnt expect the govt to take care of and provide for them. It would get ugly fast. So yes tent cities could very well become a reality for millions who have not sufficiently become self sufficient. Our economic situation is just a house of cards. Babylon will not last indefinitely. It will eventually come tumbling down. Prepare best you can for the unexpected with balance and wisdom but keep planting those cherry trees..

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RocknRoll
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Posts: 532

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by RocknRoll »

For those who believe in “Call outs” and/or “Tent Cities”, how do you envision this playing out?

1. All those who have prepared and have enough food storage, tents, etc. and are called by their leaders, will pack up and go WHERE? Where will you go that others will not follow?

2. Once you get to wherever you are going, what is to stop others/anyone from trying to join up? One family has food storage and tents, their brother’s family does not. Are they going to stop their brother’s family, whom they love dearly, from following and or joining the group?

3. How will you keep government agencies from interfering? The government has helicopters, drones, FBI agents, spy satellites, a military, etc.

4. What kind of sanitary accommodations do you envision? Showers, latrines, dish washing stations, et all. Where will thousands of people poop? How will you keep disease at bay? And do you think this will harm the environment in any way? That dish soap, shampoo and human waste has to go somewhere.

5. What makes you believe that it will be safer to live in a city of tents, a few miles away from the community, rather than to just stay home? Sure, your house may be damaged due to an earthquake or flood, but things can be repaired. I think I’d rather live in a house with no electricity than a tent with no electricity.

6. How long are these tent communities supposed to last? Days? Months? Years? What happens when one family, who thought they had enough food for a year, runs out at 8 months? Do others chip in, or does that family have to leave?

7. How will the rule of law work? Who’s in charge? Who makes the rules and who enforces them? What happens if one particular “high profile” family believes they should be in charge, but others have different ideas?

Just trying to think this through.

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by brlenox »

RocknRoll wrote: May 12th, 2017, 9:36 am For those who believe in “Call outs” and/or “Tent Cities”, how do you envision this playing out?

Just trying to think this through.
My what BIG eyes you have grandma...

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RocknRoll
captain of 100
Posts: 532

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by RocknRoll »

brlenox wrote: May 12th, 2017, 9:40 am My what BIG eyes you have grandma...
Why, thank you!

Chris
captain of 100
Posts: 319

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Chris »

lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...
The really sad thing about all these dreamers is some of the fake ones are preying on the vulnerability and desire of those who rightly believe that time is close. Julie Rowe is the biggest fraud of all of them. Don't feel good about Sarah, or Hector. But I know Julie is a fraud and she is giving the legit dreamers a bad name. The devil always has duplicates to the real thing sadly......

Ill say this. 2 1/2 years ago we had a GA come to our stake conference. He gave the most normal somewhat boring talk I ever heard or sorry usually hear! Then as he was closing here is what he says- " I bless you that if you will be humble and if you will seek it the Lord will show you what is coming." I started poking my wife and was like did you hear that.....

I have had several very special sacred experiences in my life. But no visions up to that point on the last days and apocalypse.... So I took him up on his offer and got the see some amazing things....

I will say this Spencer from VOG is legit and so is David Warwick..... Sadly though like everything in life there always have to be a couple losers to ruin it for everyone.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by DesertWonderer »

Chris wrote: May 12th, 2017, 10:39 am
lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...
The really sad thing about all these dreamers is some of the fake ones are preying on the vulnerability and desire of those who rightly believe that time is close. Julie Rowe is the biggest fraud of all of them. Don't feel good about Sarah, or Hector. But I know Julie is a fraud and she is giving the legit dreamers a bad name. The devil always has duplicates to the real thing sadly......

Ill say this. 2 1/2 years ago we had a GA come to our stake conference. He gave the most normal somewhat boring talk I ever heard or sorry usually hear! Then as he was closing here is what he says- " I bless you that if you will be humble and if you will seek it the Lord will show you what is coming." I started poking my wife and was like did you hear that.....

I have had several very special sacred experiences in my life. But no visions up to that point on the last days and apocalypse.... So I took him up on his offer and got the see some amazing things....

I will say this Spencer from VOG is legit and so is David Warwick..... Sadly though like everything in life there always have to be a couple losers to ruin it for everyone.
No. Those two are false too.

Chris
captain of 100
Posts: 319

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Chris »

DesertWonderer wrote: May 12th, 2017, 10:47 am
Chris wrote: May 12th, 2017, 10:39 am
lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...
The really sad thing about all these dreamers is some of the fake ones are preying on the vulnerability and desire of those who rightly believe that time is close. Julie Rowe is the biggest fraud of all of them. Don't feel good about Sarah, or Hector. But I know Julie is a fraud and she is giving the legit dreamers a bad name. The devil always has duplicates to the real thing sadly......

Ill say this. 2 1/2 years ago we had a GA come to our stake conference. He gave the most normal somewhat boring talk I ever heard or sorry usually hear! Then as he was closing here is what he says- " I bless you that if you will be humble and if you will seek it the Lord will show you what is coming." I started poking my wife and was like did you hear that.....

I have had several very special sacred experiences in my life. But no visions up to that point on the last days and apocalypse.... So I took him up on his offer and got the see some amazing things....

I will say this Spencer from VOG is legit and so is David Warwick..... Sadly though like everything in life there always have to be a couple losers to ruin it for everyone.
No. Those two are false too.
ill debate ya on that one. I saw a lot in my vision and those 2 are legit. Ill give ya the other ones but not these 2.

BackBlast
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Posts: 570

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by BackBlast »

RocknRoll wrote: May 12th, 2017, 9:36 am For those who believe in “Call outs” and/or “Tent Cities”, how do you envision this playing out?
:D
1. All those who have prepared and have enough food storage, tents, etc. and are called by their leaders, will pack up and go WHERE? Where will you go that others will not follow?

2. Once you get to wherever you are going, what is to stop others/anyone from trying to join up? One family has food storage and tents, their brother’s family does not. Are they going to stop their brother’s family, whom they love dearly, from following and or joining the group?

3. How will you keep government agencies from interfering? The government has helicopters, drones, FBI agents, spy satellites, a military, etc.
Where and when?

The answer here is that it could only work as a divine plan - as mortals we could not create a successful scenario.

Where? is generally believed to be, places prepared that can be sealed up for a time. There is plenty of general space, most of Utah is uninhabited federal lands. The suitable locations with water supplies and somewhat isolated are fewer, but they exist.

When? I believe that various small groups will be relocated as needed in the course of the judgements that are coming. There will be a lot of commotion from the judgements, so generally, they will not be noticed immediately.

I believe that some attempts are made by hostile groups to overcome some communities by force.

I hope this is beneficial, so I will share the basis of my knowledge with you. There is at least one battle in my future that I take part in. I believe it to be in the place I am told to flee, but I don't really know as my information was about my role, not where or when it is to occur. I am the warning voice for that community, and with that warning they will win handily.

I believe that to this end I have also been granted various markers of time and events in my life. Where I will see something in my future, and then it happens. All of these have been passive to date, but I believe this helps me to trust the markers so when the active ones are given to me I will know how to act when there is potentially no time for anything else. Thus I can be relied upon to fulfill my assigned roles in the coming events. I only just started getting these active markers.
4. What kind of sanitary accommodations do you envision? Showers, latrines, dish washing stations, et all. Where will thousands of people poop? How will you keep disease at bay? And do you think this will harm the environment in any way? That dish soap, shampoo and human waste has to go somewhere.
Sanitation is probably one of the more important issues in such a move. But it isn't an impossible feat to build out, even from only local resources provided there is a reasonable water supply. This isn't a fundamental issue.
5. What makes you believe that it will be safer to live in a city of tents, a few miles away from the community, rather than to just stay home? Sure, your house may be damaged due to an earthquake or flood, but things can be repaired. I think I’d rather live in a house with no electricity than a tent with no electricity.
Only answer I really have for you is that He says so. That answer is potentially different for each individual, you have your path, I have mine. I have no idea how similar or dissimilar they are. I think the generalization of the dreams and warnings of such temporary gatherings is a mistake. The thrust should be that we are probably getting very close and you should seek to have your own directions granted unto you. If I feel by the spirit that I can and should share mine, take it as mine alone and don't generalize it upon others outside of my stewardship. Though it may be useful for someone to see another gain insight and knowledge that they may believe (or that their belief may be made more sure) that they, also, can gain insight and knowledge for their stewardship.

There has been a very high emphasis on personal revelation and worthiness from various talks in recent conferences. I consider when we hear things like this
[link]In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.
I find it very, very, interesting. The days of casual observance of our duties and responsibilities being sufficient to keep our loved ones safe is ending.
6. How long are these tent communities supposed to last? Days? Months? Years? What happens when one family, who thought they had enough food for a year, runs out at 8 months? Do others chip in, or does that family have to leave?
Very little idea really, best guess for me - ~3 years. And no, I don't have that much food. Part of my instructions are to prepare and bring goats - which do have some food production value.
7. How will the rule of law work? Who’s in charge? Who makes the rules and who enforces them? What happens if one particular “high profile” family believes they should be in charge, but others have different ideas?
The general expectation is that it would be a priesthood organization as the stakes are now but with greater temporal governing responsibilities. If any people could pull this off it is the faithful Latter Day Saints.

I'm not going to provide a source for this, but I happen to know one of the primary all-hell-is-breaking-loose contingency plans the church has. And it is NOT a call-out plan - quite the contrary - it is a very much a weather in place plan. As far as I can tell, the church is not planning any kind of "call-out" mobilization. The only caveat to that is, the plan I'm aware of could also be modified in short order to cover a limited relocation of groups if that was desired as it entails a lot of logistical muscle. Having that muscle gives you a lot of latitude in action when it comes down to it.

We really don't know very much of what is going to happen.

Gage
captain of 100
Posts: 702

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Gage »

I will debate you on anyone of them also, especially someone that says "the Lord told me to warn you." Where does it mention tent cities in the scriptures?

BackBlast
captain of 100
Posts: 570

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by BackBlast »

Another tidbit found in D&C for the generally curious.
[link] 37 And that every man should take righteousness in his hands and faithfulness upon his loins, and lift a warning voice unto the inhabitants of the earth; and declare both by word and by flight that desolation shall come upon the wicked.
Emphasis is mine. Why would the words "by flight" be in that scripture? Isn't that interesting - a testimony by flight. In the scriptures, flight is not a casual movement or a plodding journey. It has purposeful haste. It would not describe the trek west, for example. I believe that it is there because some will be warned, and need to flee suddenly and with haste. This is the final bit of testimony. This pattern is repeated over and over and over in the scriptures and we should take heed.

My only purpose here is not to tell anyone that you will be one that this applies to, but that everyone should be worthy to receive that instruction if you should be one. Or that you might be at ease with your own path illuminated before you.

I have not read most of the books cited here. I do not wish to, really. It isn't necessary and my time is limited. So I cannot make any well reasoned claims to their motives or general correctness. But the general idea of potentially being refugees, warned of the Lord and fleeing on the eve of the desolation, is very very real.

There is a good deal of fear tied up in the last days events. I do not believe the Lord would have the righteous be troubled by them, but rather to be not troubled. Just see that ye are righteous and it will be well with you. Even if we should die, before our journey is through. All is well.

User avatar
Sarah
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6705

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Sarah »

BackBlast wrote: May 12th, 2017, 11:50 am
RocknRoll wrote: May 12th, 2017, 9:36 am For those who believe in “Call outs” and/or “Tent Cities”, how do you envision this playing out?
:D
1. All those who have prepared and have enough food storage, tents, etc. and are called by their leaders, will pack up and go WHERE? Where will you go that others will not follow?

2. Once you get to wherever you are going, what is to stop others/anyone from trying to join up? One family has food storage and tents, their brother’s family does not. Are they going to stop their brother’s family, whom they love dearly, from following and or joining the group?

3. How will you keep government agencies from interfering? The government has helicopters, drones, FBI agents, spy satellites, a military, etc.
Where and when?

The answer here is that it could only work as a divine plan - as mortals we could not create a successful scenario.

Where? is generally believed to be, places prepared that can be sealed up for a time. There is plenty of general space, most of Utah is uninhabited federal lands. The suitable locations with water supplies and somewhat isolated are fewer, but they exist.

When? I believe that various small groups will be relocated as needed in the course of the judgements that are coming. There will be a lot of commotion from the judgements, so generally, they will not be noticed immediately.

I believe that some attempts are made by hostile groups to overcome some communities by force.

I hope this is beneficial, so I will share the basis of my knowledge with you. There is at least one battle in my future that I take part in. I believe it to be in the place I am told to flee, but I don't really know as my information was about my role, not where or when it is to occur. I am the warning voice for that community, and with that warning they will win handily.

I believe that to this end I have also been granted various markers of time and events in my life. Where I will see something in my future, and then it happens. All of these have been passive to date, but I believe this helps me to trust the markers so when the active ones are given to me I will know how to act when there is potentially no time for anything else. Thus I can be relied upon to fulfill my assigned roles in the coming events. I only just started getting these active markers.
4. What kind of sanitary accommodations do you envision? Showers, latrines, dish washing stations, et all. Where will thousands of people poop? How will you keep disease at bay? And do you think this will harm the environment in any way? That dish soap, shampoo and human waste has to go somewhere.
Sanitation is probably one of the more important issues in such a move. But it isn't an impossible feat to build out, even from only local resources provided there is a reasonable water supply. This isn't a fundamental issue.
5. What makes you believe that it will be safer to live in a city of tents, a few miles away from the community, rather than to just stay home? Sure, your house may be damaged due to an earthquake or flood, but things can be repaired. I think I’d rather live in a house with no electricity than a tent with no electricity.
Only answer I really have for you is that He says so. That answer is potentially different for each individual, you have your path, I have mine. I have no idea how similar or dissimilar they are. I think the generalization of the dreams and warnings of such temporary gatherings is a mistake. The thrust should be that we are probably getting very close and you should seek to have your own directions granted unto you. If I feel by the spirit that I can and should share mine, take it as mine alone and don't generalize it upon others outside of my stewardship. Though it may be useful for someone to see another gain insight and knowledge that they may believe (or that their belief may be made more sure) that they, also, can gain insight and knowledge for their stewardship.

There has been a very high emphasis on personal revelation and worthiness from various talks in recent conferences. I consider when we hear things like this
[link]In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.
I find it very, very, interesting. The days of casual observance of our duties and responsibilities being sufficient to keep our loved ones safe is ending.
6. How long are these tent communities supposed to last? Days? Months? Years? What happens when one family, who thought they had enough food for a year, runs out at 8 months? Do others chip in, or does that family have to leave?
Very little idea really, best guess for me - ~3 years. And no, I don't have that much food. Part of my instructions are to prepare and bring goats - which do have some food production value.
7. How will the rule of law work? Who’s in charge? Who makes the rules and who enforces them? What happens if one particular “high profile” family believes they should be in charge, but others have different ideas?
The general expectation is that it would be a priesthood organization as the stakes are now but with greater temporal governing responsibilities. If any people could pull this off it is the faithful Latter Day Saints.

I'm not going to provide a source for this, but I happen to know one of the primary all-hell-is-breaking-loose contingency plans the church has. And it is NOT a call-out plan - quite the contrary - it is a very much a weather in place plan. As far as I can tell, the church is not planning any kind of "call-out" mobilization. The only caveat to that is, the plan I'm aware of could also be modified in short order to cover a limited relocation of groups if that was desired as it entails a lot of logistical muscle. Having that muscle gives you a lot of latitude in action when it comes down to it.

We really don't know very much of what is going to happen.
Ditto on the active markers. Things are happening which I didn't think would happen. When I told my brother about a recent event in our lives (something most people would be congratulating you over), he said half-jokingly, half serious, "Oh no." I said "I know!"

User avatar
Sarah
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6705

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Sarah »

RocknRoll wrote: May 12th, 2017, 9:36 am For those who believe in “Call outs” and/or “Tent Cities”, how do you envision this playing out?

1. All those who have prepared and have enough food storage, tents, etc. and are called by their leaders, will pack up and go WHERE? Where will you go that others will not follow?

2. Once you get to wherever you are going, what is to stop others/anyone from trying to join up? One family has food storage and tents, their brother’s family does not. Are they going to stop their brother’s family, whom they love dearly, from following and or joining the group?

3. How will you keep government agencies from interfering? The government has helicopters, drones, FBI agents, spy satellites, a military, etc.

4. What kind of sanitary accommodations do you envision? Showers, latrines, dish washing stations, et all. Where will thousands of people poop? How will you keep disease at bay? And do you think this will harm the environment in any way? That dish soap, shampoo and human waste has to go somewhere.

5. What makes you believe that it will be safer to live in a city of tents, a few miles away from the community, rather than to just stay home? Sure, your house may be damaged due to an earthquake or flood, but things can be repaired. I think I’d rather live in a house with no electricity than a tent with no electricity.

6. How long are these tent communities supposed to last? Days? Months? Years? What happens when one family, who thought they had enough food for a year, runs out at 8 months? Do others chip in, or does that family have to leave?

7. How will the rule of law work? Who’s in charge? Who makes the rules and who enforces them? What happens if one particular “high profile” family believes they should be in charge, but others have different ideas?

Just trying to think this through.
This is assuming you would have running water at your house. When there is no electricity, there is no running water or gasoline. There is no way to clean the water.
What would everyone do if no one had running water in their homes? It would not be pretty. I think I would rather be in a tent by a mountain stream freezing myself silly than deal with massive amounts of people who have no food and water and are stuck in their homes.

Chris
captain of 100
Posts: 319

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by Chris »

DesertWonderer wrote: May 12th, 2017, 10:47 am
Chris wrote: May 12th, 2017, 10:39 am
lone-knight wrote: May 10th, 2017, 1:04 pm I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion that has been happening here. This is the exact reason that I have started this thread. I have some questions that I'd like to put out there for us to think about and discuss, always related to the OP. I have shared some of my story, so hopefully that has provided context. There have been a few lines that my wife has posed that I am not sure how to reply. Here are a few:

- There are 800-5000 (depends on the conversation) LDS people that are all feeling this urgency and the necessity . Doesn't this prove that the tent city thing is real?

- JR, HS, Spencer, et al., may have been wrong about their timing, but that doesn't mean they are wrong about the events...

- (after seeking a priesthood blessing from someone else) I need to get a blessing from ________ because the last blessing said that I had so much time and I'm not sure if I'm going to get another opportunity...
The really sad thing about all these dreamers is some of the fake ones are preying on the vulnerability and desire of those who rightly believe that time is close. Julie Rowe is the biggest fraud of all of them. Don't feel good about Sarah, or Hector. But I know Julie is a fraud and she is giving the legit dreamers a bad name. The devil always has duplicates to the real thing sadly......

Ill say this. 2 1/2 years ago we had a GA come to our stake conference. He gave the most normal somewhat boring talk I ever heard or sorry usually hear! Then as he was closing here is what he says- " I bless you that if you will be humble and if you will seek it the Lord will show you what is coming." I started poking my wife and was like did you hear that.....

I have had several very special sacred experiences in my life. But no visions up to that point on the last days and apocalypse.... So I took him up on his offer and got the see some amazing things....

I will say this Spencer from VOG is legit and so is David Warwick..... Sadly though like everything in life there always have to be a couple losers to ruin it for everyone.
No. Those two are false too.
Also those 2 never said a date. Not ever.

Julie is as bad as they come. The BS bubbles out of her mouth and is disgusting as it comes.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by DesertWonderer »

BackBlast wrote: May 12th, 2017, 11:50 am
I believe that to this end I have also been granted various markers of time and events in my life. Where I will see something in my future, and then it happens. All of these have been passive to date, but I believe this helps me to trust the markers so when the active ones are given to me I will know how to act when there is potentially no time for anything else. Thus I can be relied upon to fulfill my assigned roles in the coming events. I only just started getting these active markers.
Markers? What do you mean by markers and please give some examples.

lone-knight
captain of 50
Posts: 74

Re: Dreams and Dreamers

Post by lone-knight »

As the thread starter, I want to jump in really quick and say that I appreciate the dialogue. There are points that I agree with and points that I don't. That all said, please know that basic opinions on people, especially specific people, don't help me. Perhaps they help others, but I am personally most interested in the discussion of these dreams and dreamers. I know that I mentioned a few specific names in my posts, those were meant to be representative.
I love the discussion and don't want to see it morph into character assassinations or the building up of people that can be perceived as false prophets. So far as I know, none of the predictions from any of these individuals have come true - thus making them hard to judge on future events. What I do know is that the fruits that have been born out in my own home, connected to all of this stuff, have been extremely sour. Thus I tend to hedge on the skeptic because, "by their fruits, ye shall know them."
Again, I beg, please let's continue the discussion, it has been going so well. I posed some questions and have had thought out responses. There are aspects that I buy into and other points of view that I disagree with. I think we are all going to find some of that. I'd just like the discussion out in the open, let the light of day shine on the points of view and reveal the truth.
As a side note: my understanding right now falls much more in line with brlenox, AI 2.0, DesertWonderer, and the like. For the most part, that has to do with the facts of my house and my situation. I feel that sticking as close to the word of God as possible, is the safest path. I make no assumptions about having additional knowledge beyond the basics because I find those to be challenging to make sure that I am living. Nonetheless, I am always searching and learning more. It is part of my nature.

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