Questions on "The Mountains"

[Hogmeister]

I go to "the mountain" for refuge right now. It's called the Draper temple.

Isaiah 2:1-5



"The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD'S house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow into it. 3 Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law. And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. 5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the LORD." (See also Micah 4:1-5).

Mountain repeatedly means kingdom(nation) or government in prophetic language. The Kingdom of God shal be established in the foremost nation of nations. Hills are lesser kingdoms/nations/governments.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone (the mountain of the LORDS's house) was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made bknown to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

D&C 65:2 The keys of the KINGDOM of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the MOUNTAIN without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth. (The stone will grow and become a great mountain that fills the whole earth)

[Gage]

Mountains should not be taken literally people (can you see a government, millions of people, all gathered around a mountain top. No) People will come to Zion (I assume in Missouri) and ask for the Saints to teach them their ways. The Kingdom (government) will be ran with such efficiency and organization that people will hear about it and come and want to be a part of it and learn from it. Top of the mountains signifies Mighty and powerful not literally on the top of a mountain.

Then what will happen to the Saints in the near future when all Hell breaks loose and the mobs chase as around?

The Saints have already been chased to the mountains, they were chased all the way to Utah. Scriptures say it will be an organized departure to Zion before the millennium. The evil will be fighting the evil when all hell breaks loose. When it gets really bad, Zion (the pure of heart) will be lifted up to safety.

Yes, that is true. But won't some of the saints end-up getting killed in the near future? Such as nuclear war? Or will we be in JC Missouri when nuclear war goes on?

Yes the way I understand it many will be killed. I do not believe that all the saints will be gathered around and protected while the stuff is hitting the fan. I do know that they will be protected once the new government is being started, but this is after a lot of devastation. I dont how the Lord will decide who is left to begin the new government. Of course leaders will be there but I dont know who else will make it. I do know who wont make it. So I guess the only way you have any chance is if you are pretty darn righteous or pretty darn lucky.

[Z2100]

Then what will happen to the Saints in the near future when all Hell breaks loose and the mobs chase as around?

The Saints have already been chased to the mountains, they were chased all the way to Utah. Scriptures say it will be an organized departure to Zion before the millennium. The evil will be fighting the evil when all hell breaks loose. When it gets really bad, Zion (the pure of heart) will be lifted up to safety.

Yes, that is true. But won't some of the saints end-up getting killed in the near future? Such as nuclear war? Or will we be in JC Missouri when nuclear war goes on?

Yes the way I understand it many will be killed. I do not believe that all the saints will be gathered around and protected while the stuff is hitting the fan. I do know that they will be protected once the new government is being started, but this is after a lot of devastation. I dont how the Lord will decide who is left to begin the new government. Of course leaders will be there but I dont know who else will make it. I do know who wont make it. So I guess the only way you have any chance is if you are pretty darn righteous or pretty darn lucky.

Then I guess the chances of surviving the tribulations are 1/1000000

[Older/wiser?]

The Saints have already been chased to the mountains, they were chased all the way to Utah. Scriptures say it will be an organized departure to Zion before the millennium. The evil will be fighting the evil when all hell breaks loose. When it gets really bad, Zion (the pure of heart) will be lifted up to safety.

Yes, that is true. But won't some of the saints end-up getting killed in the near future? Such as nuclear war? Or will we be in JC Missouri when nuclear war goes on?

Yes the way I understand it many will be killed. I do not believe that all the saints will be gathered around and protected while the stuff is hitting the fan. I do know that they will be protected once the new government is being started, but this is after a lot of devastation. I dont how the Lord will decide who is left to begin the new government. Of course leaders will be there but I dont know who else will make it. I do know who wont make it. So I guess the only way you have any chance is if you are pretty darn righteous or pretty darn lucky.

Then I guess the chances of surviving the tribulations are 1/1000000

I believe many will die, I see it maybe in a different light than some, so which is worse a spiritual death, or physical? The fact that we will die (unless the Lord sees fit to do otherwise) is inevitable. So would it not be better to make up your mind how you will respond if and when you are brought to that point. I see great ones having been deceived fallen, and seeing this pattern played out in the beginning, well this is my greatest fear, that if they who are noble and great can be so easily deceived, how can I an insignificant little broken person discern truth from error. That death is my fear, killed by a nuclear bomb yes is scary but not to be feared, as when it's over its over, no the death I fear is spiritual by deception which lasts forever.

[Z2100]

Yes, that is true. But won't some of the saints end-up getting killed in the near future? Such as nuclear war? Or will we be in JC Missouri when nuclear war goes on?

Yes the way I understand it many will be killed. I do not believe that all the saints will be gathered around and protected while the stuff is hitting the fan. I do know that they will be protected once the new government is being started, but this is after a lot of devastation. I dont how the Lord will decide who is left to begin the new government. Of course leaders will be there but I dont know who else will make it. I do know who wont make it. So I guess the only way you have any chance is if you are pretty darn righteous or pretty darn lucky.

Then I guess the chances of surviving the tribulations are 1/1000000

I believe many will die, I see it maybe in a different light than some, so which is worse a spiritual death, or physical? The fact that we will die (unless the Lord sees fit to do otherwise) is inevitable. So would it not be better to make up your mind how you will respond if and when you are brought to that point. I see great ones having been deceived fallen, and seeing this pattern played out in the beginning, well this is my greatest fear, that if they who are noble and great can be so easily deceived, how can I an insignificant little broken person discern truth from error. That death is my fear, killed by a nuclear bomb yes is scary but not to be feared, as when it's over its over, no the death I fear is spiritual by deception which lasts forever.

So you're saying that it doesn't matter if you die during the tribulations. But it does matter that you must be spiritually fit when you die?

[Older/wiser?]

Yes, one death has eternal consequences, the other is natural as all must die. I love Jobs example , He was tested, given over to Satans buffetings allowed to be tested except unto death, and His noble words "The Lord Giveth, the Lord taketh away blessed be the name of the Lord" . To understand the depth one must walk a road of suffering and come to a point were he lays all on the altar, trusting completely in the will on the Lord. So it can be called whatever you like, spiritually fit is as good a term as any other. You completely trust Him , what does life or death matter if you lose your soul. I was given this understanding at the death of our son D&C 122: hold on thy way, and the priesthood shall remain with thee; for their bounds are set, they cannot pass. Thy days are know,and thy years shall not be numbered less; therefore, fear not what man can do, for God shall be with you forever and ever.

[brianj]

Then I guess the chances of surviving the tribulations are 1/100000

One in a million? That would leave only 321 Americans alive. There are currently 114 serving general authorities. Add their wives and you have 228 people. If they all survived the tribulations, at one in a million surviving, only 93 more would be alive to grow food, reestablish government, start missionary work, and establish the city of Zion.

If one in 1,000 survives then, after the 144,000 are called there would be 177,400 remaining for the work that needs to be done.

Based on my understanding of last days prophecies, from general authorities, describing what happens after the tribulations, I would expect the survival rate to be somewhere between 1:100 and 1:500; at current estimates that would be somewhere between 642,800 and 3,214,000 survivors.

I so hope I survive the tribulations, and I so hope I'm called as a missionary afterward!

[Z2100]

Then I guess the chances of surviving the tribulations are 1/100000

One in a million? That would leave only 321 Americans alive. There are currently 114 serving general authorities. Add their wives and you have 228 people. If they all survived the tribulations, at one in a million surviving, only 93 more would be alive to grow food, reestablish government, start missionary work, and establish the city of Zion.

If one in 1,000 survives then, after the 144,000 are called there would be 177,400 remaining for the work that needs to be done.

Based on my understanding of last days prophecies, from general authorities, describing what happens after the tribulations, I would expect the survival rate to be somewhere between 1:100 and 1:500; at current estimates that would be somewhere between 642,800 and 3,214,000 survivors.

I so hope I survive the tribulations, and I so hope I'm called as a missionary afterward!

I think that there will be 1 billion people left on Earth by 2100. 49% of the people on Earth will be wicked and burn (in 2100) and the rest will be exalted.

[Silver Pie]

If only ten righteous people survive, God can make a people out of them. Look what he did with just two (Adam and Eve).

[Gage]

Many members ignorantly think they will be saved, the ones that hold temple recommends but lied to get it. They think they are slick and lie to hold that recommend to keep up appearances. They dont realize they are the very people that will be the main cause for the start of the suffering to come. These folks will be the first to burn.

[Z2100]

If only ten righteous people survive, God can make a people out of them. Look what he did with just two (Adam and Eve).

That is true. They could've produced millions of people before the flood.

[Dragon]

Here are a few quotes from Brigham Young that I believe answers your questions.

An Inland Empire will be stablished in these valleys of the mountains, which will be a place of refuge for millions of people to gather to, when the great day of the judgment of God comes upon the earth, and the righteous come here for safety. Our people will go East, West, North and South, but the day will come, when they will be glad to come back. We will be shut out from the rest of the world.

- As quoted in Prophecy: Key to the Future pg 58

We are blessed in these mountains. This is the best place on the earth for the Latter-day Saints. Search the history of all the nations, and every geographical position on the face of the earth, and you cannot find another situation so well adapted for the Saints as are these mountains. Here is the place in which the Lord designed to hide his people.

- Journal of Discouses Vol 3 pg 9
Add to that D&C 29:8 -

Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.

AND D&C 45:68 -

And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

Combined, I believe these quotes show there WILL come a future call to gather to the safety of the Rockies, meaning Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and surrounding area. I don't believe all the righteous will heed this call, and those who delay will endure great persecution and will be driven out of society. The scriptures show us what happens when all the righteous are cast out. A great plague will follow, for which the only cure will be a priesthood blessing.

[brianj]

Many members ignorantly think they will be saved, the ones that hold temple recommends but lied to get it. They think they are slick and lie to hold that recommend to keep up appearances. They dont realize they are the very people that will be the main cause for the start of the suffering to come. These folks will be the first to burn.

D&C 112:24-25

[Gage]

many wont heed the call because it wont happen like many think. There wont be a big broadcast call to the saints that the Prophet and Apostles have plenty of room and steaks cooking. . Many wont know that the Lord has been here and it has begun. During that time we have to fend for ourselves for probably a year until things get organized. Many saints wont know what they should do when there is word coming from out of Zion.

[Older/wiser?]

many wont heed the call because it wont happen like many think. There wont be a big broadcast call to the saints that the Prophet and Apostles have plenty of room and steaks cooking. . Many wont know that the Lord has been here and it has begun. During that time we have to fend for ourselves for probably a year until things get organized. Many saints wont know what they should do when there is word coming from out of Zion.

As I read your post , the thought occured "Many won't know that the Lord has been here and it has begun" to that I say Yes, it has begun. EmmaLee stated she remembered from a source, the 2 coming started with Joseph's first vision (that was an explanation for peoples blessings stating they would be alive during the 2nd coming). How else could it be" as in the days of Noah they are marrying and giving in marriage". This is the day, the day to choose whom you will serve, the separation IMO has started the spiritual death toll rising. The physical calamities once recognized will catch us all unprepared, but at that point we will all have made our choices, even if we have chosen to just be in the middle of the road, a good Sunday Saint (that's the day we live our beliefs). We will not be fending for "Ourselves" if we have chosen now to seek the "spirit of the Lord." I think you would be surprised how quickly the Church will organize beginning on the local level, with communications on up.

[captainfearnot]

"O Babylon, O Babylon, we bid thee farewell, We're going to the Mountains of Ephraim to dwell."

Obviously we're talking about Bald Mountain, five miles southeast of Ephraim, UT.

Although I could be persuaded that Big Baldy, Manti Mountain, and South Tent Mountain also qualify as the Mountains of Ephraim.

[Bronco73idi]

Joesph Smith, May 1843 "The coming of the 10 Tribes of Israel, the coming of the Messiah among his people, will be so natural that only those who see Him will know that He has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion, and minister unto His people. This will not be His coming in the clouds of heaven to take vengeance upon the wicked of the world."

[davedan]

Stakes of Zion


D&C 115:6 And that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth.

When there is nuclear war, initially you are hold up in your home with your food storage. If you have storage you live, if you dont, you perish. When safe to emerge, those that survive then gather at the Stake Center and pool remaining resources. This standards of the Church (standards of the Temple = mountain tops) keep the undesirables away. Undesirables can no endure the standards of the Temple. The larger numbers keep the raiders away. The distributed nature of Stakes makes it impossible for the Church membership to be targeted.

[etamez]

Why is just one interpretation correct? I believe that, as used in scriptural prophecy, mountain has several meanings.

When society collapses as badly as Orson Pratt prophesied, who really thinks the criminals will suddenly stop at the gates to the Oakland or Santa Monica (Los Angeles) temple grounds? Did the fact that what the Jews had in ancient times was a temple stop invading forces from desecrating the temple?

[Silver Pie]

Joesph Smith, May 1843 "The coming of the 10 Tribes of Israel, the coming of the Messiah among his people, will be so natural that only those who see Him will know that He has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion, and minister unto His people. This will not be His coming in the clouds of heaven to take vengeance upon the wicked of the world."

I don't remember ever reading that quote. It's quite interesting. Where did you get it?

[Gage]

In the last days, Salt Lake City will be wicked place so I dont think anyone will be running to anywhere near those mountains again. People of other nations will be fighting one another and the ones that are pure heart and accept the gospel will have to flee to Zion (America) to escape or stay and fight. The US will not be at war but will have its own problems within (I guess Mexicans will be killing us). People will start gong to Missouri but they wont have to "flee for their lives" to get there. They will go willingly and because they want to.

[EmmaLee]

Joesph Smith, May 1843 "The coming of the 10 Tribes of Israel, the coming of the Messiah among his people, will be so natural that only those who see Him will know that He has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion, and minister unto His people. This will not be His coming in the clouds of heaven to take vengeance upon the wicked of the world."

I don't remember ever reading that quote. It's quite interesting. Where did you get it?

It's part of the White Horse Prophecy.

[Silver Pie]

It's part of the White Horse Prophecy.

Oh, okay. I wonder if it's a reliable JS quote?

[brianj]

Oh, okay. I wonder if it's a reliable JS quote?

Since the church has made official statements against the white horse "prophecy," I wouldn't accept anything in it unless an independent source older than this manufactured prophecy can be found and validated.

[Silver Pie]

Oh, okay. I wonder if it's a reliable JS quote?

Since the church has made official statements against the white horse "prophecy," I wouldn't accept anything in it unless an independent source older than this manufactured prophecy can be found and validated.

Those are along the lines I was thinking. First, that it wasn't considered bona fide and, second, that it might have no current-with-Joseph's-lifetime source. I knew the first was true, but did not know if the second was true or not.