So valuable! Thank you so much for taking the time to research this and share what you found. I was dismayed that the fact that Jules' quote was fake seemed to be completely ignored. Especially by those who's kneejerk reaction was to zero in on you and your 'delivery' rather than even considering the information you provided.brlenox wrote: ↑April 28th, 2017, 1:25 amJules...it's been so long. I see you have been advancing the cause. It's kind of ironic that several years ago I used to take such heat from you and your group that reigned here on LDSFF. In those days you might have posted such a thing as what you have posted and you would have been extolled as a visionary and an ICON of truth.
Interesting how things can change. It would seem that many here recognize that what you have written falls outside the bounds of the things of God. Not just by content, heck from the right venue the content doesn't trouble me...that much. I fully except that there is so very much that we have no comprehension of and so much would be foreign to our limited understandings. However, every one that has rejected your material has done so for several reasons. Some it doesn't feel right, some ... it's the messenger...and for myself that is certainly a biggie, however another subtle little oversight on your part caught my eye.
I'm pretty familiar with an awful lot of what Joseph Smith said and the quote you provided above didn't set well with me. In a way it becomes part of an appeal to authority which is a common logical fallacy. The essence being that you claimed an authority said something and linking that to your material adds legitimacy. Now I'd be the last guy to fault you from using quotes from a general authority, especially from Joseph Smith, I have always based practically all of my material on sustainment from general authorities - because frankly I'm not an adequate witness of certain things and linking observations to a legitimate witness strengthens the case and should encourage others to ponder over the material with more interest. It is never wise to ignore legitimate witnesses. However, you have done that for as long as I have known you.
However, I have never caught you making up quotes to support a misguided direction until now. More amazing is you had to doctor it up to make it seem legitimate and that was an intentional act of pure deception - drawing upon the authority of Joseph Smith because you knew you had no actual authority to back up your material. Why did you have to create a false quote to support your direction? For me when I notice certain types of deception it undermines everything else that the speaker says. Thus you have undermined your source of your "vision" as being holy and have shaded it in deception.
It is not that your quote does not exist in terms of the words you used - like I said you had to doctor something up and then twist the meaning to force it to seeming truth.
I happen to be looking at the actual quote this very minute. It is found in the book, "The Words of Joseph Smith" page 20 in footnote 21. It is a long footnote so I am only going to copy the part that is germane to your deception. It states:
The footnote is actually a commentary of some of Joseph's statements and the words of the commentary are actually either Andrew F. Ehat's or Lyndon W. Cook's who were the editors of the material. The underlined part is actually their commentary and it simply is using the word dimension to describe an alternate perspective on the subject that Joseph is commenting too. If it helps here is all of the common definitions that can be drawn from the word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dimension . In other words, Ehat or Cook thought there were multiple dimensions as in means of expansion on the subject that Joseph was referring too. You have wrested the meaning to imply that Joseph is speaking to dimensions as in alternative places in the space time continuum - Einstein would be proud of your efforts.…On the banks of the Susquehanna River, Michael appeared to intervene and detect the devil when he appeared as an angel of light (D&C 128:20), indicating another dimension to this question of detection. Because the adversary apparently can take light and truth away from the disobedient (D&C 93:39), he can attempt to pass as an angel of glory (2 Corinthians 11:14; D&C 129:8; Moses 1:2, 9, 11-25). As indicated in this discourse, Joseph Smith therefore revealed additional keys of detection. Far from saying that when the instructions of this discourse were followed, the adversary's only recourse was to attempt to return the handshake, in a December 1840 discourse Joseph says, "The Devil . . . will either shrink back ... or offer his hand." He will not remain absolutely still if he is tested. On 28 April 1842, the Prophet revealed to the Relief Society, and on 1 May 1842 to the Nauvoo populace, that there was another dimension for determining whether manifestations and revelations were approved by God. There were "keys of the kingdom," he said to a Sunday audience of the saints in the Grove, "certain signs and words by which false spirits and personages may be detected from true, which cannot be revealed to the Elders till the Temple is completed....(Words of Joseph Smith, Ehat and Cook, page 20)
However, since I can't find a digital source for a cut and paste, I am of the opinion that you actually typed the quote. If this is true then you had to add the quote marks and change the words to make it appear they are Joseph's, then you had to misspell "whether" as "weather" and you left the word "were" out all together in the tail end of the statement.
If you did hand type this in, this is indeed subtle deception, very subtle.
I once wrote a post where I stated something to the effect that you were going to think what I had done in the post was very funny and would leave you laughing for days....or something like that, I can't remember exactly. However, you know what...I think this post of yours tops mine by a mile for it's potential to strike a humorous chord. When you read the portion of the commentary from Ehat and Cook that I provided it is clear what the subject matter is. If you bother to look up the entirety of the footnote you will find it is over a page long and goes into far more detail about the subject. In case it is not obvious, it is about how to detect the devil or other false spirits and to "know the difference between a true spirit and an evil spirit." (quote attributed to Ehat or Cook)
Anyone who want's to can actually verify my source as the Words of Joseph Smith is found online in a couple of places. One is here:
https://archive.org/stream/TheWordsOfJo ... h_djvu.txt
Just search on the phrase "dimension for determining" and it will take you to the appropriate footnote and all can read for themselves.
Jules, if you did actually find this quote somewhere where you actually cut and pasted from then a link or such would partially exonerate you. At present I have taken a screen shot of the results from Google and it only shows up on LDSFF in your post.
Frankly, I think you need to reread the entire section, it is very illuminating and if only you had known how to detect false spirits it could have saved you a lot of time...I mean a LOT of time, writing out your treatise on the other dimensions you have encountered.
Alaris, Butterfly? Did you read that Jules' quote was wrong? Did you notice that she had NOTHING to say about it, not even an acknowledgment that she had led her audience astray? Or are we supposed to just ignore that because it was 'insulting' (Alaris) to point it out? Is the 'knee jerk' reaction to always gloss over or defend missteps by those who belong to the 'Remnant', at the expense of truth and/or accuracy? It may not be, but that seems to be how it is around here.
Also, Brlenox, the quotes you've provided are well worth saving for future reference. I very much appreciate your participation on this forum.