Symbolism

[Older/wiser?]

In reading another post discussing Revelations it was noted that the numbers used were to symbolize other things. This may be true example: we are to forgive 70x7 (D&C 98:40) obviously that does not mean we do the math and mark off each time we forgive perceived trespasses till we reach 490. It means we forgive perfectly. Symbolism is meant to conceal to the casual reader but it also is meant to reveal. Numbers like 3 (Godhead Atonement ) are somewhat obvious, 7 perfection, wholeness, covenant 4 earth, mortality. It is used in colors , the human body, and all elements . The following is a short list found in Gospel Symbolism by JF McConkie. Branch=posterity, Bride and Bridegroom= One of the seven figures used to set forth the relationship of the church to Christ. Candlestick =The seven -branched or stems represent the fullness and completeness, representation of the Tree of life. Cedar=Nobility, Strength. Clouds=A symbol of the veil between God and Man. Dove= The sign of the Dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, the devil cannot come in the sign of the Dove, The dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence, see Abraham facsimile. Famine= Symbolizes a period in which the word of the Lord is not heard. Star=pre -earth spirits ,Christ is the bright and morning star. Stone-metaphor for Christ. Trees= Represents men: green trees the righteous, dry trees wicked. Water is a symbol of the word of God as the source of eternal life. Rock= metaphor for Christ . Word=A title for Christ. My very limited experience with symbolism has taught me that the symbols many times mean both exactly what they say and also have the symbolic meaning, example :7 th thousand years, represents the 7th period of time 1,000 years also the perfect Sabbath day period of rest from the Lord's labors. Here is one of my favorite examples of a simple verse loaded with symbolism that to the casual observer can be passed over Exodus 2:15-16 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well. V16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The symbolism a priest stands in place for the Lord, 7 daughters drawing water from the well (waters symbolize Christ, who is the fountain of all righteousness) the 7 daughters symbolize the perfect bride(Church) the 7 to 1 or Bride to Groom, Moses sitting by a well (well water Christ).This plays out perfectly through symbolism and the actions of Moses fulfilled the symbolism. Another example of symbolism unknowingly acted out Nephi 3:27 , and the servants of Laban did not overtake us, and we hid ourselves in the cavity of a rock. And again unknowingly acted, Ether 13:13 And I was about to write more , but I am forbidden;but great and marvelous were the prophecies of Ether;but they esteemed him as naught, and cast him out; and he hid himself in the cavity of a rock, V 14 and he dwelt in the cavity of a rock. Here is the key Isaiah 12:10 enter into the Rock, no longer just build upon, but enter into the rock. Two prophets both physically fulfilled the spiritual symbolism, the meaning of which to me means they took upon them the full covering of Jesus Christ, the Lord who raised Himself from the hand carved rock tomb . When I read Revelations I see dual fulfillment, it pulls me into the preexistence and shows the continuance of a great war that has never ceased, the symbolism at least to me enriches the same story told through repetition.

[Z2100]

In reading another post discussing Revelations it was noted that the numbers used were to symbolize other things. This may be true example: we are to forgive 70x7 (D&C 98:40) obviously that does not mean we do the math and mark off each time we forgive perceived trespasses till we reach 490. It means we forgive perfectly. Symbolism is meant to conceal to the casual reader but it also is meant to reveal. Numbers like 3 (Godhead Atonement ) are somewhat obvious, 7 perfection, wholeness, covenant 4 earth, mortality. It is used in colors , the human body, and all elements . The following is a short list found in Gospel Symbolism by JF McConkie. Branch=posterity, Bride and Bridegroom= One of the seven figures used to set forth the relationship of the church to Christ. Candlestick =The seven -branched or stems represent the fullness and completeness, representation of the Tree of life. Cedar=Nobility, Strength. Clouds=A symbol of the veil between God and Man. Dove= The sign of the Dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, the devil cannot come in the sign of the Dove, The dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence, see Abraham facsimile. Famine= Symbolizes a period in which the word of the Lord is not heard. Star=pre -earth spirits ,Christ is the bright and morning star. Stone-metaphor for Christ. Trees= Represents men: green trees the righteous, dry trees wicked. Water is a symbol of the word of God as the source of eternal life. Rock= metaphor for Christ . Word=A title for Christ. My very limited experience with symbolism has taught me that the symbols many times mean both exactly what they say and also have the symbolic meaning, example :7 th thousand years, represents the 7th period of time 1,000 years also the perfect Sabbath day period of rest from the Lord's labors. Here is one of my favorite examples of a simple verse loaded with symbolism that to the casual observer can be passed over Exodus 2:15-16 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well. V16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The symbolism a priest stands in place for the Lord, 7 daughters drawing water from the well (waters symbolize Christ, who is the fountain of all righteousness) the 7 daughters symbolize the perfect bride(Church) the 7 to 1 or Bride to Groom, Moses sitting by a well (well water Christ).This plays out perfectly through symbolism and the actions of Moses fulfilled the symbolism. Another example of symbolism unknowingly acted out Nephi 3:27 , and the servants of Laban did not overtake us, and we hid ourselves in the cavity of a rock. And again unknowingly acted, Ether 13:13 And I was about to write more , but I am forbidden;but great and marvelous were the prophecies of Ether;but they esteemed him as naught, and cast him out; and he hid himself in the cavity of a rock, V 14 and he dwelt in the cavity of a rock. Here is the key Isaiah 12:10 enter into the Rock, no longer just build upon, but enter into the rock. Two prophets both physically fulfilled the spiritual symbolism, the meaning of which to me means they took upon them the full covering of Jesus Christ, the Lord who raised Himself from the hand carved rock tomb . When I read Revelations I see dual fulfillment, it pulls me into the preexistence and shows the continuance of a great war that has never ceased, the symbolism at least to me enriches the same story told through repetition.

You've done some studying. you're spot-on

[DesertWonderer]

Thanks for the OP. Until we learn to understand the language of symbolism, God's language, we won't understand scripture.

[Older/wiser?]

How important is Symbolism? I would say very important , it is the language the Lord uses to communicate truth, it is consistent, never failing in truth and the same for all people. If I were to go to Russia and drive the shape of the stop sign would convey to me what I should do , regardless of the words and my lack of understanding, the color of the traffic light would also convey whether I should go, stop or slow down. I know the above seems elementary yet posts come up that with some understanding posters would not be lead astray and have the Lord's answers. I do something that I think of as weaving which gives the next level of understanding . Example Genesis 7:2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two the male and his female. V3 of the fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Now Exodus 2 v 16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water . Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This was important enough to be put in the BoM 2Nephi 14:1 repeats . Next Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth ,and they that hear the words of this prophecy, v4 John addresses the seven churches v 12 I saw seven golden candlesticks V13 in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, V 20 He gives the representation Rev. 2 He walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; now weave all the above verses together the concept and representation will give you the next level of understanding aside from the separate story each verse tells , the commonality , the symbolism , I would be interested in what you see. So many quote bits and pieces of Rev. from chapter 6 on looking for the day the signs ,which I agree we are commanded to watch and read the signs, I also love to search them out. I believe the greater light and knowledge is in Rev.1-5 and is more applicable to our salvation,. Symbolism will always be truth, what do you think.

[Sarah]

How important is Symbolism? I would say very important , it is the language the Lord uses to communicate truth, it is consistent, never failing in truth and the same for all people. If I were to go to Russia and drive the shape of the stop sign would convey to me what I should do , regardless of the words and my lack of understanding, the color of the traffic light would also convey whether I should go, stop or slow down. I know the above seems elementary yet posts come up that with some understanding posters would not be lead astray and have the Lord's answers. I do something that I think of as weaving which gives the next level of understanding . Example Genesis 7:2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two the male and his female. V3 of the fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Now Exodus 2 v 16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water . Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This was important enough to be put in the BoM 2Nephi 14:1 repeats . Next Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth ,and they that hear the words of this prophecy, v4 John addresses the seven churches v 12 I saw seven golden candlesticks V13 in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, V 20 He gives the representation Rev. 2 He walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; now weave all the above verses together the concept and representation will give you the next level of understanding aside from the separate story each verse tells , the commonality , the symbolism , I would be interested in what you see. So many quote bits and pieces of Rev. from chapter 6 on looking for the day the signs ,which I agree we are commanded to watch and read the signs, I also love to search them out. I believe the greater light and knowledge is in Rev.1-5 and is more applicable to our salvation,. Symbolism will always be truth, what do you think.

I'd like to know what YOU think. My first thought about the seven women and seven candlesticks is that it could symbolize a perfection or completion of the Church.

[Older/wiser?]

How important is Symbolism? I would say very important , it is the language the Lord uses to communicate truth, it is consistent, never failing in truth and the same for all people. If I were to go to Russia and drive the shape of the stop sign would convey to me what I should do , regardless of the words and my lack of understanding, the color of the traffic light would also convey whether I should go, stop or slow down. I know the above seems elementary yet posts come up that with some understanding posters would not be lead astray and have the Lord's answers. I do something that I think of as weaving which gives the next level of understanding . Example Genesis 7:2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two the male and his female. V3 of the fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Now Exodus 2 v 16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water . Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This was important enough to be put in the BoM 2Nephi 14:1 repeats . Next Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth ,and they that hear the words of this prophecy, v4 John addresses the seven churches v 12 I saw seven golden candlesticks V13 in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, V 20 He gives the representation Rev. 2 He walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; now weave all the above verses together the concept and representation will give you the next level of understanding aside from the separate story each verse tells , the commonality , the symbolism , I would be interested in what you see. So many quote bits and pieces of Rev. from chapter 6 on looking for the day the signs ,which I agree we are commanded to watch and read the signs, I also love to search them out. I believe the greater light and knowledge is in Rev.1-5 and is more applicable to our salvation,. Symbolism will always be truth, what do you think.

I'd like to know what YOU think. My first thought about the seven women and seven candlesticks is that it could symbolize a perfection or completion of the Church.

I am glad you found it interesting enough to give it some thought, first in each scripture quoted there are elements that are the same , when you look at one scripture you get one view, when you see the consistency in other scriptures you see the magnitude an pattern. Elements in each verse , the One, 7, represented always by the female, 7 is perfection . The One symbolizes the Lord , this is the underlying sacred relationship of the Bride to the Groom , 7 to One , the Bride to the Groom , also as noted In Rev. Christ to His Church, upon careful study of Rev. 1-5 you will see the symbolism clearly, the importance of this is relayed in the other scriptures, there is always one that stands in place of the Lord. The 7 will always be female as His Bride. The love He has for His Church, His people is shown so clearly, notice How in His reprimand to the individual branches, They are chastened, reprimanded, but not cut of. The pattern can apply to our day as well. Isaiah 4:1-2 2v In that day shall the branch on the Lord be beautiful and Glorious; v 1 And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread (bread is a symbol for Christ, sacrament, Bread of Life) and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This sounds to me within context of other scriptures that after cleansing, and suffering , the Bride is accepted. This is just one level there are others. You may see a different level but symbolism always lines up. Learning a new language such as symbolism is reinforced in the Temple, It will help one not to be deceived by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, and as always the spirit will testify of the truth.

[GrandMasterB]

How important is Symbolism? I would say very important , it is the language the Lord uses to communicate truth, it is consistent, never failing in truth and the same for all people. If I were to go to Russia and drive the shape of the stop sign would convey to me what I should do , regardless of the words and my lack of understanding, the color of the traffic light would also convey whether I should go, stop or slow down. I know the above seems elementary yet posts come up that with some understanding posters would not be lead astray and have the Lord's answers. I do something that I think of as weaving which gives the next level of understanding . Example Genesis 7:2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two the male and his female. V3 of the fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Now Exodus 2 v 16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water . Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This was important enough to be put in the BoM 2Nephi 14:1 repeats . Next Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth ,and they that hear the words of this prophecy, v4 John addresses the seven churches v 12 I saw seven golden candlesticks V13 in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, V 20 He gives the representation Rev. 2 He walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; now weave all the above verses together the concept and representation will give you the next level of understanding aside from the separate story each verse tells , the commonality , the symbolism , I would be interested in what you see. So many quote bits and pieces of Rev. from chapter 6 on looking for the day the signs ,which I agree we are commanded to watch and read the signs, I also love to search them out. I believe the greater light and knowledge is in Rev.1-5 and is more applicable to our salvation,. Symbolism will always be truth, what do you think.

I'd like to know what YOU think. My first thought about the seven women and seven candlesticks is that it could symbolize a perfection or completion of the Church.

Clearly it symbolizes we can marry 7 women each.

[Older/wiser?]

How important is Symbolism? I would say very important , it is the language the Lord uses to communicate truth, it is consistent, never failing in truth and the same for all people. If I were to go to Russia and drive the shape of the stop sign would convey to me what I should do , regardless of the words and my lack of understanding, the color of the traffic light would also convey whether I should go, stop or slow down. I know the above seems elementary yet posts come up that with some understanding posters would not be lead astray and have the Lord's answers. I do something that I think of as weaving which gives the next level of understanding . Example Genesis 7:2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of the beasts that are not clean by two the male and his female. V3 of the fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Now Exodus 2 v 16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water . Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach. This was important enough to be put in the BoM 2Nephi 14:1 repeats . Next Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth ,and they that hear the words of this prophecy, v4 John addresses the seven churches v 12 I saw seven golden candlesticks V13 in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, V 20 He gives the representation Rev. 2 He walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; now weave all the above verses together the concept and representation will give you the next level of understanding aside from the separate story each verse tells , the commonality , the symbolism , I would be interested in what you see. So many quote bits and pieces of Rev. from chapter 6 on looking for the day the signs ,which I agree we are commanded to watch and read the signs, I also love to search them out. I believe the greater light and knowledge is in Rev.1-5 and is more applicable to our salvation,. Symbolism will always be truth, what do you think.

I'd like to know what YOU think. My first thought about the seven women and seven candlesticks is that it could symbolize a perfection or completion of the Church.

Clearly it symbolizes we can marry 7 women each.

You first

[Older/wiser?]

The previous chapter states ,they men die in the war, and if that is your focus, all that I quoted is pointless, I don't want to turn this into a polygamy thread , rather symbolism and others insights.

[Mark]

The previous chapter states ,they men die in the war, and if that is your focus, all that I quoted is pointless, I don't want to turn this into a polygamy thread , rather symbolism and others insights.

Perfect reason why we must take the Holy Spirit to be our guide and become one of the wise virgins. More symbolism. So many of us live with a dreaded confirmation bias disorder. We are always trying to prove out in scripture what we already "know" to be true as a result of our bias. Your examples in Isaiah and tying it into discussions on polygamy etc are a perfect example. The discussions on the site about last days events are mostly just a constant barrage of somebodies own little confirmation bias orgy where people set out to prove that their bias is the legitimate one and they do so with their own pet scriptures. No real desire to be open to the spiritual teacher of all this magnificent symbolism in holy writ. Just a literalist dung heap of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. I am sure that the Lord just shakes His head in disbelief as he watches us flounder around in our own self conceit and supposed "knowledge". We really don't "know" much until we can overcome our own form of confirmation bias and become open and receptive to the only true teacher of greater light and knowledge. And I'm not referring to Amonhi here.. :ymdevil:

[Older/wiser?]

The previous chapter states ,they men die in the war, and if that is your focus, all that I quoted is pointless, I don't want to turn this into a polygamy thread , rather symbolism and others insights.

Perfect reason why we must take the Holy Spirit to be our guide and become one of the wise virgins. More symbolism. So many of us live with a dreaded confirmation bias disorder. We are always trying to prove out in scripture what we already "know" to be true as a result of our bias. Your examples in Isaiah and tying it into discussions on polygamy etc are a perfect example. The discussions on the site about last days events are mostly just a constant barrage of somebodies own little confirmation bias orgy where people set out to prove that their bias is the legitimate one and they do so with their own pet scriptures. No real desire to be open to the spiritual teacher of all this magnificent symbolism in holy writ. Just a literalist dung heap of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. I am sure that the Lord just shakes His head in disbelief as he watches us flounder around in our own self conceit and supposed "knowledge". We really don't "know" much until we can overcome our own form of confirmation bias and become open and receptive to the only true teacher of greater light and knowledge. And I'm not referring to Amonhi here.. :ymdevil:

First I am not amonhi, and don't have anything to do with him or his crowd, all I have done is show a pattern that is in the scriptures, so sorry for offending you marc, I have respected your posts in the past, I have no self conceit, you don't know my heart. So I will just chalk all of it up to coincidence and be done, and by the way I am not a literalist, you have a good day.

[Mark]

The previous chapter states ,they men die in the war, and if that is your focus, all that I quoted is pointless, I don't want to turn this into a polygamy thread , rather symbolism and others insights.

Perfect reason why we must take the Holy Spirit to be our guide and become one of the wise virgins. More symbolism. So many of us live with a dreaded confirmation bias disorder. We are always trying to prove out in scripture what we already "know" to be true as a result of our bias. Your examples in Isaiah and tying it into discussions on polygamy etc are a perfect example. The discussions on the site about last days events are mostly just a constant barrage of somebodies own little confirmation bias orgy where people set out to prove that their bias is the legitimate one and they do so with their own pet scriptures. No real desire to be open to the spiritual teacher of all this magnificent symbolism in holy writ. Just a literalist dung heap of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. I am sure that the Lord just shakes His head in disbelief as he watches us flounder around in our own self conceit and supposed "knowledge". We really don't "know" much until we can overcome our own form of confirmation bias and become open and receptive to the only true teacher of greater light and knowledge. And I'm not referring to Amonhi here.. :ymdevil:

First I am not amonhi, and don't have anything to do with him or his crowd, all I have done is show a pattern that is in the scriptures, so sorry for offending you marc, I have respected your posts in the past, I have no self conceit, you don't know my heart. So I will just chalk all of it up to coincidence and be done, and by the way I am not a literalist, you have a good day.

Hello?? I was actually agreeing with your premise that symbolism is overlooked waaaaaaaaay to often in discussing scriptural interpretation. You didnt offend me mate. Just trying to be supportive of your chosen topic. Sorry if you didnt understand my post. I guess forums really aren't very conducive to understanding someones intent and meaning. Cheers.

[Older/wiser?]

So sorry marc for my misunderstanding, I just see what I see, and obviously much is lost in translation in forums.

[Mark]

So sorry marc for my misunderstanding, I just see what I see, and obviously much is lost in translation in forums.

No biggie. Its all good. The temple is a great example of a place where using the spirit to understand the symbolism portrayed therein can yield a treasure trove of more fully understanding the great plan of happiness that our kind and loving Father has provided for His children. Looking past the symbolism will yield very little results in discovering the further light and knowledge needed to navigate through this minefield we call mortality.

[Older/wiser?]

Any comments on Rev.8:10-11 the seal says this is poured out in the 7th seal, v10 and the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part on the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; V11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Just wondering what interpretation or comments any of you had . I made a comment on the Post Rev. 13:7 I probably shod have made here. Any thoughts.

[Hogmeister]

Any comments on Rev.8:10-11 the seal says this is poured out in the 7th seal, v10 and the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part on the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; V11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Just wondering what interpretation or comments any of you had . I made a comment on the Post Rev. 13:7 I probably shod have made here. Any thoughts.

This is my try to interpret the symbolism: The rivers could be the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth. Wormwood is falsehood and corruption sown in the earth by Lucifer the fallen spirit/star. Much of the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth became bitter as we can see. But unless you taste the bitter you will not know the sweet.

[DesertWonderer]

Any comments on Rev.8:10-11 the seal says this is poured out in the 7th seal, v10 and the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part on the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; V11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Just wondering what interpretation or comments any of you had . I made a comment on the Post Rev. 13:7 I probably shod have made here. Any thoughts.

This is my try to interpret the symbolism: The rivers could be the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth. Wormwood is falsehood and corruption sown in the earth by Lucifer the fallen spirit/star. Much of the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth became bitter as we can see. But unless you taste the bitter you will not know the sweet.

Agreed.

[Older/wiser?]

Any comments on Rev.8:10-11 the seal says this is poured out in the 7th seal, v10 and the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part on the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; V11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Just wondering what interpretation or comments any of you had . I made a comment on the Post Rev. 13:7 I probably shod have made here. Any thoughts.

This is my try to interpret the symbolism: The rivers could be the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth. Wormwood is falsehood and corruption sown in the earth by Lucifer the fallen spirit/star. Much of the wisdom and knowledge taught on earth became bitter as we can see. But unless you taste the bitter you will not know the sweet.

Now I had never looked at those verses in that light, that is the beauty of symbolism . I look at it and see the past mirrors the future and the future is mirrored in the past. Though this states that this is poured out in the 7th seal as I am sure it will physically occur, this also tells the story of the past. V10 and the third Angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, (the great star from heaven is the opposite of the "bright and morning star", which is the Lord) burning as it were a lamp,(Lucifer means light bringer or light bearer) and it fell upon the third part or the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters. Lucifer influence fell upon 1/3rd of the host of Heaven, Chapter 17 v15 The waters which thou sawest, were the whore sitteth , are peoples and multitudes, and nations and tongues. waters signify people, back to V10 fountains of waters are also people Chapter 21 V6 to those who overcome and are athirst we are given of the fountain of the "water of life" freely (I would say we have communion with Christ). So in essence this V 10 is telling about the fall of the great Star Lucifer and his taking a 1/3 of the host of Heaven . And the name of the star is wormwood: (Lucifer may well be given that name) and the 1/3 part of the waters became wormwood; then as if to repeat what has happened is states and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. People die spiritually all the time because they become bitter. Now I don't doubt that we shall see things fall from heaven polluting up to a third of the waters making them bitter, what I am suggesting is the story being told has happened, and probably will play out again regarding people falling those following another type and shadow of Lucifer. So what happened, will again happen manifesting it self in elements as well as the people of the earth. IMHO

[DesertWonderer]

People die spiritually all the time because they become bitter. Now I don't doubt that we shall see things fall from heaven polluting up to a third of the waters making them bitter, what I am suggesting is the story being told has happened, and probably will play out again regarding people falling those following another type and shadow of Lucifer. So what happened, will again happen manifesting it self in elements as well as the people of the earth. IMHO

I actually don't think there will be some cataclysmic event that will poison the H20 of the earth. I think it is saying that in the last days the waters (symbolic for spiritual nourishment (ex the filthy waters in Lehi's dream) or in other words teaching beliefs and other corrupting factors will be bitter or poisoned. Like the drinking of poisoned water causes the physical body to die, taking in poisoned teachings will cause spiritual death.

Thoughts?

[Z2100]

People die spiritually all the time because they become bitter. Now I don't doubt that we shall see things fall from heaven polluting up to a third of the waters making them bitter, what I am suggesting is the story being told has happened, and probably will play out again regarding people falling those following another type and shadow of Lucifer. So what happened, will again happen manifesting it self in elements as well as the people of the earth. IMHO

I actually don't think there will be some cataclysmic event that will poison the H20 of the earth. I think it is saying that in the last days the waters (symbolic for spiritual nourishment (ex the filthy waters in Lehi's dream) or in other words teaching beliefs and other corrupting factors will be bitter or poisoned. Like the drinking of poisoned water causes the physical body to die, taking in poisoned teachings will cause spiritual death.

Thoughts?

I'm thinking the same thing,too. I think that 99.9% of the prophecies foretold by ancient prophets have came to pass.

[Mcox]

Awesome post thanks older/wiser. I have gained so much knowledge and understanding when I look at the signs of the last days spiritually. (I always. consider each sign, literally as well as spiritually). I have come to the same interpretations as you have. The institute manuels are a great resource in understanding possible interpretations.

[Older/wiser?]

People die spiritually all the time because they become bitter. Now I don't doubt that we shall see things fall from heaven polluting up to a third of the waters making them bitter, what I am suggesting is the story being told has happened, and probably will play out again regarding people falling those following another type and shadow of Lucifer. So what happened, will again happen manifesting it self in elements as well as the people of the earth. IMHO

I actually don't think there will be some cataclysmic event that will poison the H20 of the earth. I think it is saying that in the last days the waters (symbolic for spiritual nourishment (ex the filthy waters in Lehi's dream) or in other words teaching beliefs and other corrupting factors will be bitter or poisoned. Like the drinking of poisoned water causes the physical body to die, taking in poisoned teachings will cause spiritual death.

Thoughts?

I would have just quoted you not my post but not sure how to do it, so thoughts I have many , I have learned much through the temple as Mark brought up, I wonder just how many really see. Let me pose a question the creation story, was there really a "tree of Life" or is it symbolic or is it both ? If you understand that so much more opens up .I believe that the physical truly does occur to symbolize the spiritual, they are two sides of one coin, to see the full picture you have to see both sides. The prophet Nephi hid in the "cavity of a Rock" He did not know his actions fulfilled scripture. The Lord uses the physical that we might recognize the spiritual thus learning the magnitude of the battle and the extent of deceptions. Lucifer was given power to copy Moses miracles, will be abandon that physical power in the final chapters. The waters being filthy in Lehis dream were people nations and tongues , the 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven following Lucifer were cast down ,could they be symbolized by the waters below the firmament. Alma 3:4 And the Amalicites were distinguished from the Nephites, for they had marked themselves with red in there foreheads v18 the amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads. My point is we may not recognize the physical fulfillment of scripture, yet the elements themselves are used by the Lord to show us the spiritual I can't say one happens without the other, though the greater spiritual understanding dwarfs the physical, Rev. Can be confusing , it seems to repeat itself different ways even in one verse. Example 1 Rev.13 :9 if any man have an ear , let him hear. it goes on to warnings then beasts coming out of the earth horns etc. I won't go into each verse but in v. 14 is some clarity, and deceived them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast(seems like a replay of the Moses let my people go scenario)saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Hugh Nibely stated there is a tradition in ancient writing, that Lucifer was brought before the Lord and ceremonial cuts with a sword were made in his garment rendering him with decreased power. So would this not be a title , beast which had the wound by a sword, and did live, of Lucifer. A title repeated 17v8 when they behold the beast , that was, and is not and yet is. The Lord wields the sword , His word is sharper than a two edged sword, He is the one who wounded the beast. Now are there those on this earth to again continue the same battle ? Sorry for the lengthy post , I am not eloquent, and had other examples but will leave it for another day. The creation with teach you many truths, one is the adversary will deceive with such a copy so close that one without a sought out living testimony of the Savior will fall. There are two marks given Rev.13:16 and one in Rev. 22: 4 a price will be paid for either. One another note the garden of Eden was created coping ? If you know where to find this you can learn a truth. And again INHO