Revelation 13:7

[lundbaek]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

[Original_Intent]

When I used to pose questions like this, the response I tended to get, which I thought was non-specific and kind of lame was "repent".

I have been humbled somewhat since then. It's the correct answer. I wanted something much more specific, and I'm sure you do too.

Repent and cry repentance.

[AlbertaBronco]

I hate to say it ... but the book of revelations is not useful. It can be interpreted so differently that settling it by an appeal to the bible or the scriptures is not relevant.

Throw your dart and guess ... but you will find you are not any further ahead.

[Silver]

When I used to pose questions like this, the response I tended to get, which I thought was non-specific and kind of lame was "repent".

I have been humbled somewhat since then. It's the correct answer. I wanted something much more specific, and I'm sure you do too.

Repent and cry repentance.

I want to say that I agree and the thought that flashed into my mind to explain why is the story of the sons of Mosiah among the Lamanites. Ammon went to the land of Ishmael and became a servant to King Lamoni. Ammon was sent out to tend the flocks and some troublesome Lamanites came along to scatter them. Ammon defended the flocks and the Lamanites, thinking any one of them could easily kill the Nephite, attacked. The Lord saved Ammon who turned the tables on several of the Lamanites.

The question is, did Ammon repent and cry repentance before he got in the pasture and was faced with some murderous Lamanites, or did he repent as he let fly the first stone from his sling? As we know, he had previously repented (of the big stuff) and surely repented continually of things since that humbling event so he was worthy of the Spirit's voice telling him to release the stone....NOW! To cut off that arm.....NOW! To dodge that stone...now. (Yes, I'm sure he had martial arts training, as well, but against so many, we must admit that he was protected.)

Repent. What is the most important part of the word Repent? It is the Re of Repent. Do it again and again. Never stop repenting.

[Alaris]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

I intend to put a lengthy post together about the 8 uses of overcometh in Revelation and how they align with the 7 dispensations, 7 archangels, with the 8th being the Lord. Each level must be overcome. You either overcome the challenges of that level or are overcome by it. Power is given for you to be overcome otherwise there is no challenge or room for growth to overcome.

My advice is to find out where you are and the challenges you have to overcome because if God is with you no one can stand against you. God's power to overcome will always be greater.

[Durzan]

I hate to say it ... but the book of revelations is not useful. It can be interpreted so differently that settling it by an appeal to the bible or the scriptures is not relevant.

Throw your dart and guess ... but you will find you are not any further ahead.

I hate to say it as well, but I kinda agree with this statement. Other scriptures correlate well with whats going on in it, and provide a clearer view, although even then its still like seeing through a looking glass darkly.

The book of revelation is only useful when you combine it with other scriptures and the Spirit, of course.

[Z2100]

I hate to say it ... but the book of revelations is not useful. It can be interpreted so differently that settling it by an appeal to the bible or the scriptures is not relevant.

Throw your dart and guess ... but you will find you are not any further ahead.

I definitely agree. There's a chronology in there, but no-one knows. I think Joseph Smith said that the BOR was the most confusing book on Earth and the most plain.

[Z2100]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

The war in Heaven continues on Earth!

[mmm..cheese]

I feel approaching the book of revelation with a spiritual understanding leads to great insight, regardless of the ultimate interpretation of the book (which is yet to come forth as spoken of in the BoM). It gives a birds eye view of the creation and the events of earth.

[DesertWonderer]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

"The Primary Answers" : pray, read the scriptures, obey the commandments, receive and keep sacred covenants, repent (The Path) and you'll be just fine. On another thread a poster said he was literally almost in tears at work over the state of the world. I was a bit shocked by that statement. I would suggest if you do the above, you'll have no need to fear and satan can make war all he wants but he won't prevail--as JRH has said We already know who wins! (paraphrasing)

[DesertWonderer]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

I intend to put a lengthy post together about the 8 uses of overcometh in Revelation and how they align with the 7 dispensations, 7 archangels, with the 8th being the Lord. Each level must be overcome. You either overcome the challenges of that level or are overcome by it. Power is given for you to be overcome otherwise there is no challenge or room for growth to overcome.

My advice is to find out where you are and the challenges you have to overcome because if God is with you no one can stand against you. God's power to overcome will always be greater.

This sounds interesting. Can't wait to see it.

[Silver]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

"The Primary Answers" : pray, read the scriptures, obey the commandments, receive and keep sacred covenants, repent (The Path) and you'll be just fine. On another thread a poster said he was literally almost in tears at work over the state of the world. I was a bit shocked by that statement. I would suggest if you do the above, you'll have no need to fear and satan can make war all he wants but he won't prevail--as JRH has said We already knows who wins! (paraphrasing)

That was me. I can do all the right things and still be sad.

[DesertWonderer]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

"The Primary Answers" : pray, read the scriptures, obey the commandments, receive and keep sacred covenants, repent (The Path) and you'll be just fine. On another thread a poster said he was literally almost in tears at work over the state of the world. I was a bit shocked by that statement. I would suggest if you do the above, you'll have no need to fear and satan can make war all he wants but he won't prevail--as JRH has said We already knows who wins! (paraphrasing)

That was me. I can do all the right things and still be sad.

I got my own issues and don't presume to judge anybody...is it possible your focus could be adjusted to other things? I mean is it possible that you spend too much time focusing on the negative things of the world? I don't think God would have us do that. When some people read The Revelation, its horrible and depressing to them. When I read it, I think it's one of the most spiritual and uplifting books in the canon.

[Original_Intent]

It is hard not to mourn for Zion. Even among the best people I know (and I'm not one of them) people including LDS largely reject the gospel. I'm terrible in that I have been given to understand a great many things, but the knowledge is simply more condemnation on my own head because I am terrible at practicing it. I see a lot of people that, at least to me, seem to be willfully ignorant so that they can continue to pursue Babylon while giving Zion lip service. There are certainly a good many people truly striving, and I also know God is merciful so hopefully as things get worse there will be a lot of repentance, including by yours truly. But the coming cleansing, which we who have been given so much so richly deserve - it's not going to be good times.

[DesertWonderer]

Does God save those that are prefect? No. There are none. He saves imperfect beings through His Grace. His Grace is sufficient for those on the path trying their best, going the right direction. I'm certainly not one to say so-in-so deserves condemnation. Have faith in Him and His atonement.

[brianj]

When I used to pose questions like this, the response I tended to get, which I thought was non-specific and kind of lame was "repent".

I have been humbled somewhat since then. It's the correct answer. I wanted something much more specific, and I'm sure you do too.

Repent and cry repentance.

I really don't encourage people to repent. I encourage people to read the scriptures every day and pray every day, attend all of their meetings and really pay attention, participate in service projects, and fulfill all of their callings - including home and visiting teaching. By the time someone is reliably doing these things they will be coming close enough to the Holy Ghost that they don't need to be told to repent.

[lundbaek]

Here are 4 replies I got from personal friends today.


PREPARE, PREPARE, PREPARE....and get ourselves in tune with the Spirit big time!!!

1. Humble ourselves before the Lord, 2. Strip ourselves of pride, 3. Strive to keep all God's commandments until we are then. 4. Born again, born of God, having our sins forgiven. . . so that we can 5. Inquire of the Lord, gain personal revelation and then. . 6. FOLLOW IT faithfully, nothing fearing
7. rejoice in the persecution that follows our obedience, knowing we have the love of God to sustain us, 8. Enjoy the gifts of the Spirit that follow our obedience.

Personal revelation: John Taylor, while serving as President of the Quorum of the Twelve, reported: “I well remember a remark that Joseph Smith made to me upwards of forty years ago. Said he, ‘Elder Taylor, you have been baptized, you have had hands laid upon your head for the reception of the Holy Ghost, and you have been ordained to the holy priesthood. Now, if you will continue to follow the leadings of that spirit, it will always lead you right. Sometimes it might be contrary to your judgment; never mind that, follow its dictates; and if you be true to its whisperings it will in time become in you a principle of revelation so that you will know all things.’” That’s the only thing we can truly depend on.

That is something that can not be done collectively, but it can be done only as individuals at any, and all times. The way you always do that is by keeping the commandments of God, especially obedience to the promptings you receive from and through the Holy Spirit. Which promptings each and everyone of us receive constantly but most of us pay no attention to them.

[GrandMasterB]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

Buy Hector Sosa's book.

[Robin Hood]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

This is not, in my view, a prophecy of something in our future, rather, it is both something that has previously occured (the Great Apostasy, or corporate apostasy), and something happening right now. Many saints are being overcome by satan (individual apostasy), no family is immune from the consequences of his dialoical activities, no nation exempt from his disrupting influence.
This prophecy is being played out before our very eyes.

[lundbaek]

I had never considered that Revelation 13:7 might be playing out right now. The more I think about it, the more I think Robin Hood is right. Not only are individuals being overcome by Satan, but nations as well.

[DesertWonderer]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

This is not, in my view, a prophecy of something in our future, rather, it is both something that has previously occured (the Great Apostasy, or corporate apostasy), and something happening right now. Many saints are being overcome by satan (individual apostasy), no family is immune from the consequences of his diabolical activities, no nation exempt from his disrupting influence.
This prophecy is being played out before our very eyes.

You have highlighted one of the primary ways in which, IMHO, The Revelation is misunderstood: Many of the symbols recorded by John are meant to describe a general condition not specific events. This is a good example. Another is people are running around saying Rus is the beast from the sea or the US is the beast from the earth, etc...the prophesy is not about a specific county but about any / all that oppose Christ. Another example is the 144K. The election of the 144 from this final dispensation is not one event but has been going on since The Church was organized in 1830. That one "event" is now 187 years long. The "earthquake" in the 6th seal is another example and there are many others.

[mmm..cheese]

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Any thoughts or ideas on what we can do individually or as members of the LDS community to minimize the impact of the event(s) prophesied in Revelation 13:7 ?

This is not, in my view, a prophecy of something in our future, rather, it is both something that has previously occured (the Great Apostasy, or corporate apostasy), and something happening right now. Many saints are being overcome by satan (individual apostasy), no family is immune from the consequences of his dialoical activities, no nation exempt from his disrupting influence.
This prophecy is being played out before our very eyes.

In my humble opinion.. I am unable to say exactly how it relates to today. I consider the book of revelation useful in more ways than one, but I was just going to say that I totally agree with you about it referring to the past.

I actually hinge on a idea at the present moment that the key to understanding the book of revelation, in part, is take a big picture view of what has occurred throughout history since adam and remember that an Apostasy actually occurred.

I think the Book of Revelation has a function in testifying of the Restoration, perhaps that is one of the reasons why it is called the Book of Revelation..

[Spaced_Out]

When I used to pose questions like this, the response I tended to get, which I thought was non-specific and kind of lame was "repent".

I have been humbled somewhat since then. It's the correct answer. I wanted something much more specific, and I'm sure you do too.

Repent and cry repentance.

I really don't encourage people to repent. I encourage people to read the scriptures every day and pray every day, attend all of their meetings and really pay attention, participate in service projects, and fulfill all of their callings - including home and visiting teaching. By the time someone is reliably doing these things they will be coming close enough to the Holy Ghost that they don't need to be told to repent.

Doctrine and Covenants 11:9

9 Say nothing but brepentance unto this generation. Keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my cwork, daccording to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

Doctrine and Covenants 6:9
9 Say nothing but arepentance unto this generation; keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my work, according to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

[Spaced_Out]

The events of the seals are given for a purpose, and the events are repeated in the D&C. These things are not general...

Yes there is a continual sifting but it will start in ernest during the tribulations of the last days. Modern scripture are clear the separation of the wheat and tares has not occurred yet.
For example the mark of the beast given in Rev.13 is still coming. No doubt with modern technology we can understand how it will be implemented.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

[brianj]

I really don't encourage people to repent. I encourage people to read the scriptures every day and pray every day, attend all of their meetings and really pay attention, participate in service projects, and fulfill all of their callings - including home and visiting teaching. By the time someone is reliably doing these things they will be coming close enough to the Holy Ghost that they don't need to be told to repent.

Doctrine and Covenants 11:9

9 Say nothing but brepentance unto this generation. Keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my cwork, daccording to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

Doctrine and Covenants 6:9
9 Say nothing but arepentance unto this generation; keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my work, according to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

You don't get it.
What is repentance? If you look up repentance in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism you will find this sentence at the beginning of the entry:

Repentance is the process by which humans set aside or overcome sins by changing hearts, attitudes, and actions that are out of harmony with God's teachings, thereby conforming their lives more completely to his will.

What is someone doing when they start to read scriptures every day, pray every day, attend all of their meetings, really pay attention while in those meetings, and so forth? Are they not changing hearts, attitudes, and actions that are out of harmony with God's teachings?

If I tell someone to repent, I really doubt they will do so. But if I encourage them to do things they should be doing or to stop doing things they shouldn't do, then I am starting them on the path of repentance without ever telling them to repent or calling them to repentance.