Skousen Changes Timeline for WW3

[Z2100]

Has anyone considered the possibility that WWIII and the Battle of Armageddon could be one in the same?

If they are separate events, and If there is a WWIII on the horizon, then just what could be the time frame between it and the Battle of Armageddon, a battle that takes place just after the opening of the seventh seal? This is also when the great earthquake occurs. Rev 16:18

Joel 3:14 (9–14)
Ezek. 38:16 (15–16)
Zech. 14:2 (2–5)
Luke 21:20 (20–24
Rev 16:16-18
Rev 9:16

Then we have a ginormous battle during the "little season" after the Millennium called the Battle of Gog and Magog, also known the final battle.

See following link for scriptural reference details:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?l ... og&x=5&y=7

GS Gog

A king of Magog. Ezekiel prophesied that Gog would invade Israel at the time of the Lord’s Second Coming (Ezek. 38–39). Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

GS Magog

In the Bible, a land and people near the Black Sea. Their king, Gog, shall lead the armies of Magog in a last great battle before the Second Coming of Christ (Ezek. 38:2; 39:6). The scriptures speak of another great battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennium between the forces of God and the forces of evil (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

BD Gog

(2) King of Magog, whose invasion of Israel was prophesied by Ezekiel (Ezek. 38–39). The prophecy points to a time when the gentile nations of the north would set themselves against the people of God and would be defeated and led to recognize Jehovah as King. All this appears to be at the Second Coming of the Lord. Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the 1,000 years. This is described by John in Rev. 20:7–9; see also D&C 88:111–16.
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So, if there is a battle/war on the near horizon, what could the fight be over? Is this when Israel is attacked by a massive army, or is it over some hungry power grabbers merely causing a ruckus?

I think they are 2 different battles fought for different reasons and with different outcomes. From what I understand, WW3 is a relatively short and somewhat limited WW in which Israel and its allies will be the victors, giving Israel a relative sense of peace for a few years in which they are able to rebuild their temple.

I need to dig out my books written by Dwayne Crowther.

Do you mean Duane Crowther? Or does he have a Brother?

[Sarah]

Has anyone considered the possibility that WWIII and the Battle of Armageddon could be one in the same?

If they are separate events, and If there is a WWIII on the horizon, then just what could be the time frame between it and the Battle of Armageddon, a battle that takes place just after the opening of the seventh seal? This is also when the great earthquake occurs. Rev 16:18

Joel 3:14 (9–14)
Ezek. 38:16 (15–16)
Zech. 14:2 (2–5)
Luke 21:20 (20–24
Rev 16:16-18
Rev 9:16

Then we have a ginormous battle during the "little season" after the Millennium called the Battle of Gog and Magog, also known the final battle.

See following link for scriptural reference details:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?l ... og&x=5&y=7

GS Gog

A king of Magog. Ezekiel prophesied that Gog would invade Israel at the time of the Lord’s Second Coming (Ezek. 38–39). Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

GS Magog

In the Bible, a land and people near the Black Sea. Their king, Gog, shall lead the armies of Magog in a last great battle before the Second Coming of Christ (Ezek. 38:2; 39:6). The scriptures speak of another great battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennium between the forces of God and the forces of evil (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

BD Gog

(2) King of Magog, whose invasion of Israel was prophesied by Ezekiel (Ezek. 38–39). The prophecy points to a time when the gentile nations of the north would set themselves against the people of God and would be defeated and led to recognize Jehovah as King. All this appears to be at the Second Coming of the Lord. Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the 1,000 years. This is described by John in Rev. 20:7–9; see also D&C 88:111–16.
..........................................................................................................................
So, if there is a battle/war on the near horizon, what could the fight be over? Is this when Israel is attacked by a massive army, or is it over some hungry power grabbers merely causing a ruckus?

This quote is found in the Old Testament Student manual.....

Elder Charles W. Penrose summarized the foregoing list of events: “The bankrupt nations, envying the wealth of the sons of Judah, will seek a pretext to make war upon them, and will invade the ‘holy land’ to ‘take a prey and a spoil.’ …

“His [Christ’s] next appearance [after coming to his temple] will be among the distressed and nearly vanquished sons of Judah. At the crisis of their fate, when the hostile troops of several nations are ravaging the city and all the horrors of war are overwhelming the people of Jerusalem, he will set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which will cleave and part asunder at his touch. Attended by a host from heaven, he will overthrow and destroy the combined armies of the Gentiles, and appear to the worshipping Jews as the mighty Deliverer and Conquerer so long expected by their race; and while love, gratitude, awe, and admiration swell their bosoms, the Deliverer will show them the tokens of his crucifixion and disclose himself as Jesus of Nazareth, whom they had reviled and whom their fathers put to death. Then will unbelief depart from their souls, and ‘the blindness in part which has happened unto Israel’ be removed.” (“The Second Advent,” Millennial Star, 10 Sept. 1859, pp. 582–83.)

It might be that some are already developing that pretext.

[Matchmaker]

Has anyone considered the possibility that WWIII and the Battle of Armageddon could be one in the same?

If they are separate events, and If there is a WWIII on the horizon, then just what could be the time frame between it and the Battle of Armageddon, a battle that takes place just after the opening of the seventh seal? This is also when the great earthquake occurs. Rev 16:18

Joel 3:14 (9–14)
Ezek. 38:16 (15–16)
Zech. 14:2 (2–5)
Luke 21:20 (20–24
Rev 16:16-18
Rev 9:16

Then we have a ginormous battle during the "little season" after the Millennium called the Battle of Gog and Magog, also known the final battle.

See following link for scriptural reference details:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?l ... og&x=5&y=7

GS Gog

A king of Magog. Ezekiel prophesied that Gog would invade Israel at the time of the Lord’s Second Coming (Ezek. 38–39). Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

GS Magog

In the Bible, a land and people near the Black Sea. Their king, Gog, shall lead the armies of Magog in a last great battle before the Second Coming of Christ (Ezek. 38:2; 39:6). The scriptures speak of another great battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennium between the forces of God and the forces of evil (Rev. 20:7–9; D&C 88:111–116).

BD Gog

(2) King of Magog, whose invasion of Israel was prophesied by Ezekiel (Ezek. 38–39). The prophecy points to a time when the gentile nations of the north would set themselves against the people of God and would be defeated and led to recognize Jehovah as King. All this appears to be at the Second Coming of the Lord. Another battle, called the battle of Gog and Magog, will occur at the end of the 1,000 years. This is described by John in Rev. 20:7–9; see also D&C 88:111–16.
..........................................................................................................................
So, if there is a battle/war on the near horizon, what could the fight be over? Is this when Israel is attacked by a massive army, or is it over some hungry power grabbers merely causing a ruckus?

I think they are 2 different battles fought for different reasons and with different outcomes. From what I understand, WW3 is a relatively short and somewhat limited WW in which Israel and its allies will be the victors, giving Israel a relative sense of peace for a few years in which they are able to rebuild their temple.

I need to dig out my books written by Dwayne Crowther.

Do you mean Duane Crowther? Or does he have a Brother?

Thanks for correcting my spelling.

[harakim]

People are dead in Syria via an unconstitutional attack authorized by the Marmalade In Chief. He killed people who had never done any harm to Americans. That sort of attack is not only unconstitutional, it is also frowned upon in the scriptures, the same place where you find the command to love one's enemy.

Moroni loved his enemies so much that he killed the one's that wouldn't take up arms and fight for freedom. He also headed up armies that killed their enemies.
Teancum loved his enemies so much that he went into a tent and drove a javelin into the heart of a king. He was under orders given by Moroni.
Helaman loved his enemies so much that he headed up armies to defeat wicked men. He also was in charge of 2060 young men, called strippling warriors, trained them to kill and then went out and did just that. Not one of them were killed.

Just maybe, Trump has his right to take down an enemy that could potentially attack Americans with chemicals.

But just keep hating and casting dispersion's for your own satisfaction.

I don't agree with this on multiple levels, but I do agree with less hate and more patience.

That's okay because I was being sarcastic. And although the accounts are true the intent and purpose is in scripture to be read and understood in their proper context.
I was attempting to show that sometimes we have to lay down the law in defense of our families, our faith and our freedom...even if it wipes out innocent people. The righteous go to paradise where they find peace, joy, comfort and love. We mortals do all we can to cling to this life with pain, anguish, turmoil and profound evil. So who are truly better off?

Besides, when God decides to clean house, a lot of innocent people will die. And us who are trying to live righteously still have to cross our fingers and hope that we survive every single wave of destruction waiting to destroy mankind in some manner, even to the point of having eyeballs fall out of people's sockets. It's in the book!

I was agreeing with the fact that sometimes you have to stand up for your morals. Perhaps we should be patient and not judge so quickly that Trump did the wrong thing.

As far as the timing, I don't know and I've given up believing I will know by trying harder.

[freedomforall]

In 1830, the Saints thought the Second Coming would be in 1860 or 1900. It's the same situation here. The Second Coming is not going to be in 2030. So don't get your panties in a bunch...

In the 1840-1860s they thought it was eminent, that is why they were "gathering to Zion" . I really don't like to think about WHY they believed that or the implications, but I am interested with the the resulting consequences. I can't say it was church wide, but I do know from my family history and from conversing with a few friends and associates there seemed to be a falling away of sorts in utah in after the Turn of the century. I can trace my families wayward ways to that period.

I have wondered if the late 1800's had some of the same pre-millennialism fervor that had Mormons riding so high in the late 1990s that now is seemingly falling apart. And maybe that is not unlike the troubles the ancient Israelites had as they looked for a Messianic Deliver to come and fix everything.

When I was a young man I wondered why I should try if the second coming was eminent. Now as an older man, living 17 years beyond what I expected I gave up looking for a calendar date. Now I pray I can be equal to the tasks before me, and hope my life can be prolonged to see something glorious.

You are not alone. I've been waiting for something to happen to0. I guess we both can say, "the lord delayeth his coming!"

The Lord cannot delay his coming not knowing when it is himself. Only our Majesty on High knows.

Matt. 24:36
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32
32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

As close as we can get is revealed in Rev.

Rev. 16:15 (15–16)
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is when the Mt of Olives splits asunder due to the Savior's feet touching it.

Zechariah 14:4
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

[cyclOps]

In 1830, the Saints thought the Second Coming would be in 1860 or 1900. It's the same situation here. The Second Coming is not going to be in 2030. So don't get your panties in a bunch...

In the 1840-1860s they thought it was eminent, that is why they were "gathering to Zion" . I really don't like to think about WHY they believed that or the implications, but I am interested with the the resulting consequences. I can't say it was church wide, but I do know from my family history and from conversing with a few friends and associates there seemed to be a falling away of sorts in utah in after the Turn of the century. I can trace my families wayward ways to that period.

I have wondered if the late 1800's had some of the same pre-millennialism fervor that had Mormons riding so high in the late 1990s that now is seemingly falling apart. And maybe that is not unlike the troubles the ancient Israelites had as they looked for a Messianic Deliver to come and fix everything.

When I was a young man I wondered why I should try if the second coming was eminent. Now as an older man, living 17 years beyond what I expected I gave up looking for a calendar date. Now I pray I can be equal to the tasks before me, and hope my life can be prolonged to see something glorious.

You are not alone. I've been waiting for something to happen to0. I guess we both can say, "the lord delayeth his coming!"

The Lord cannot delay his coming not knowing when it is himself. Only our Majesty on High knows.

Matt. 24:36
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32
32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

As close as we can get is revealed in Rev.

Rev. 16:15 (15–16)
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is when the Mt of Olives splits asunder due to the Savior's feet touching it.

Zechariah 14:4
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Doctrine & Covenants 45:26

[Z2100]

In 1830, the Saints thought the Second Coming would be in 1860 or 1900. It's the same situation here. The Second Coming is not going to be in 2030. So don't get your panties in a bunch...

In the 1840-1860s they thought it was eminent, that is why they were "gathering to Zion" . I really don't like to think about WHY they believed that or the implications, but I am interested with the the resulting consequences. I can't say it was church wide, but I do know from my family history and from conversing with a few friends and associates there seemed to be a falling away of sorts in utah in after the Turn of the century. I can trace my families wayward ways to that period.

I have wondered if the late 1800's had some of the same pre-millennialism fervor that had Mormons riding so high in the late 1990s that now is seemingly falling apart. And maybe that is not unlike the troubles the ancient Israelites had as they looked for a Messianic Deliver to come and fix everything.

When I was a young man I wondered why I should try if the second coming was eminent. Now as an older man, living 17 years beyond what I expected I gave up looking for a calendar date. Now I pray I can be equal to the tasks before me, and hope my life can be prolonged to see something glorious.

You are not alone. I've been waiting for something to happen to0. I guess we both can say, "the lord delayeth his coming!"

The Lord cannot delay his coming not knowing when it is himself. Only our Majesty on High knows.

Matt. 24:36
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32
32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

As close as we can get is revealed in Rev.

Rev. 16:15 (15–16)
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is when the Mt of Olives splits asunder due to the Savior's feet touching it.

Zechariah 14:4
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I'm just trying to say that to many, its taking so long for the Lord to return.

[Joel]

all sorts of people are making claims:

Mystic who foretold Donald Trump presidency predicts EXACT date World War 3 will start

Self-proclaimed 'messenger of God' Horacio Villegas claims to have correctly predicted Trump would attack Syria and says global nuclear war is just WEEKS away

A mystic who claims to have accurately foretold Donald Trump's presidency has predicted the exact date World War 3 will start.

Self-proclaimed 'messenger of God' Horacio Villegas believes nuclear war will break out on the 100th anniversary of the visitation of Our Lady of Fatima.

The clairvoyant claims to have envisioned Trump would win the US election as far back as 2015, according to the Daily Star .

He reportedly predicted the billionaire businessman would become the “illuminati king” who will “ bring the world into WW3 ”.

Chillingly, one of his prophecies appears to have already come true.

Villegas warned the US leader would attack Syria , which took place earlier this month when Trump launched a huge air strike on an airbase in Homs.

He also predicted that it would bring Russia, North Korea and China into the deadly global conflict - something which, if the prophecy is to be believed, may be just WEEKS away.

It is claimed that Our Lady – another name for the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus – visited Fatima in Portugal on six different occasions.

The first visitation was said to have taken place on May 13, 1917.

This was the day, according to the Catholic faith, that Our Lady warned people that if her requests to convert Russia to the faith were not followed, God would use the country to wreak havoc on the world.

Villegas is convinced war will break out on the 100th anniversary of the visitation - in less than four weeks' time.

The last visitation is said to have occurred later that year, on October 13, 1917, where sje s believed to have announced: "The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes."

The mystic believes World War 3 will end on the 100th anniversary of that date.

Villegas told the Daily Star : “The main message that people need to know in order be prepared is that between May 13th and October 13 2017, this war will occur and be over with much devastation, shock and death.”

However, he warned that so-called false flag events will take place between April 13 and May 13 where attacks are carried out under incorrect information, including in Syria and North Korea.

[natasha]

I'm just a little curious. The scriptures quoted in a few posts above quote the Savior while He was still on earth. Now that He has been resurrected and descended to His Father, doesn't He now have all the Father has....so He might NOW know when He is coming?

[Original_Intent]

I think the word you are looking for is ascended, not descended.

I concur with you that what was stated as truth 2000 years ago is not necessarily true now.
Eventually everyone will know the day and hour, even if it is after the fact. the scripture does not state that no one will know until it happens. But clearly most will not know.

[BeNotDeceived]

I'm just a little curious. The scriptures quoted in a few posts above quote the Savior while He was still on earth. Now that He has been resurrected and descended to His Father, doesn't He now have all the Father has....so He might NOW know when He is coming?

Well said!

except ascend vs descend iaw OI's comment.

Something said in present tense does not preclude future knowledge.

Reminds me of how the warning in Revelations "not to add" to "this book" is often misapplied.

[Kingdom of ZION]

According to the Signs of the Times, Personal Prophecy, and knowing the order of Prophesied Events, if this ISIS war is not part of the beginnings of WW3, it can start at any time and must be over by no later than 2023. As World Wars go, they usually last 3 to 7 years, but once this one gets going with it ending as a Nuclear War, it will be shorter then longer for sure.

As one or two might ask, what Signs? Those things prophesied to proceed this event having already been fulfilled and those things that are to happen at the same time when it is to come, many are happening or can be seen. As the first 5 Seals and 5 Trumpets have come to pass, we are well on our way!

My personal prophecy which I have shared before here is to know the year of His Coming. And knowing the order of John, the Beloved's visions of the End Times, was given for the wise (believers) to know the order of End Time events.

So many here always say look to the Living Prophets... and as it is commonly known that the Lord will do nothing that He does not reveal it first unto His Prophets, pray tell, so why are so many here guessing?

I will give you a pattern to watch for, seeing most here are without guidance. When Adam and His wives were cast out of Eden, it did not happen on the day of His coming (abt. 4004 B.C. as Time really did not start for this creation until the fall) but years and years later. When the Messiah came in the Meridian of Time, it did not happen at the year of His birth (6 B.C.), He even said that His time had not yet come 30 years later. We know that the anti-Christ has an appointed time, just like the Messiah did. That it will not be at his birth, but when he is become a fully grown man. Looking for the last seven years prophesied by Daniel and John is not a clear cut ending point, as this war can overlap the first 3 and 1/2 years, but knowing that with world is appointed to stand for seven thousand years, and that point where we arrive to the end of the sixth thousand years or the beginning of the seventh thousand year (which was most foolishly believe by the world to be 2000 A.D.) is fastly approaching! With the great wickedness manifesting as prophesied, only a blind man could not see these Signs or should I say, ONLY Blind Men do see these Signs as in the Messiah's colorful First Temple Miracle.

If I told you the year of His coming, you would not believe me, so we shall leave it at that.

Shalom

My responses are in BLUE Type... almost everything I have posted here is found word for word in other threads on this Forum. I am seeing the same tree repeatedly!
Tell us, what are the names of all the wives of Adam upon them leaving the garden of Eden? Or was EVE a schizophrenic?
From Joseph Smith, through John Taylor and many ancient records, we are told that Michael brought three wives with him - Eve, Sarah and Lilith. If he had not then he could not demand that his children live this same law in order to inherit his degree of Glory. (Edward Tullidge, The Women of Mormondom, Ch. 20, March 1877)

Also:

Now, my little friends, I will repeat again in words as simple as I can, and you talk to your parents about it, that God, the Eternal Father is literally the father of Jesus Christ. Mary was married to Joseph for time. No man could take her for eternity because she belonged to the Father of her divine Son. (Joseph F. Smith, Box Elder News, 12/20/1914)

The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. ... That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father. (Brigham Young, JD 11:268, 8/19/1866)


As for me and my house: We hold to Personal Revelation as first hand sources are preferred when available. From the dozen different Endowments from four different nations/time periods, and the rest of the different Endowments from the last Restoration Dispensation Churches that keep to Temple Ceremonies... this is what I hold to be true:


Most LDS would have to studied Rabbinical writings too, and come to an understand of the patterns, as well as how to obtain revelation, and pull things through the veil, to know whether what I believe is true and come to such knowledge and testimony.


Names and meanings...

Sariah = Saw-ry-ah, meaning a female noble or Princess, a 'Queen of G_d'. [Sarai 8297, Sara 8283]

Ruth or Ruwth = Rooth), meaning Female Friend, a Moabitess and an additional or 'Another Mate'. [7327, 7468]

Lilith or Liyliyth = Lee-leeth, meaning a Night Spectre (specter), a screech owl. [3917, 3915 Laila/Layelah] She may hath once been Shuwshannah (Shoo-shan-naw), from the root meaning, Lily (White), flower, straight trumpet (tubular shape), to be bright, cheerful, glad, and great joy. [7799, 7797]


Eve(s) = English for Chavvah, the First Women. [See Chavvah]

Chavvah = Khav-vaw, meaning 'Life-Giver', and 'Mother of all Living'. It is also applied to living-place such as an encampment or village (a small Town). [2332, 2333]


Here is what I also believe...

Eloheim: The G_ds, Eloheim and Yahweh, once again ascends Four steps and disappears from view. The following scene occurs in the Garden Room, and no indication is given as to how much Time has passed since G_d's departure, but we art shown by example elsewhere in the Scriptures, that it was 40 years. Lucifer, the Devil will now speak through Sawtawn or the Serpent. Sawtawn is shown standing nonchalantly observing Ahman, and is clad in black Judge's Robes, he is also wearing a square black Chagorah or Apron tied to his waist. The Chagorah has two blue columns on each side, with two white globes on top of each column and a altar between these columns. There is also three white serpents, one on each column and one in the center upon the Altar. Though youthful, Lucifer/Sawtawn appears perhaps a few years older than Ahman, and wears a goatee and mustache (trying to fain glory). His speech is fluid, persuasive, and without hesitation.]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Well Ahman, thou hast a new World.

Ahman: A new World?

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Yea, a new World, patterned after those where we used to live.

Ahman: I know nothing about any other Worlds.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Oh, I see, thy eyes art not yet opened. Thou hast forgotten everything.


Thou must partake of some Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that thy eyes may be opened, for that is the way Father gained His wisdom.

[Lucifer/Sawtawn pointing to the Chavvahs, says.]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Ahman, see yonder, some of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It will make thee wise.

Ahman: I will not partake of that Fruit. Father told me that in the Time, I should partake of or even touch it, I should surely die.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Thou shalt not surely die, but shalt be as the G_ds, knowing good and evil.

Ahman: I wilt not partake of it.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Oh thou wilt not? Well, we shalt see.

[Ahman leaves, and Lucifer still speaking thorough the Serpent, appears as an Angel of Light and calls out to the Chavvahs, where one is tending Foliage, Lilith Chavvah, another tending Flowers, Ruth Chavvah, and the other tending Fruit, Sariah Chavvah.]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Chavvahs, here is some Fruit of this Tree. It will bring thee knowledge. It is delicious to the taste and very desirable.

[The Chavvahs walk over and stand together in front of Lucifer/Sawtawn.]

Lilith Chavvah: Who art thou?

Lucifer/Sawtawn: I am thy Ach (Brother).

Ruth Chavvah: Thou, my Ach, and hath come here to persuade me to disobey Ab?

Lucifer/Sawtawn: I hath said nothing about Ab. Chavvahs, I want thee to partake of the Fruit of this Tree, whereby thou mayest receive a Man-child from Adonai.

Sariah Chavvah: But Father said, that in the Time we partake, or even touch thereof, we should surely die.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Thou shalt not surely die, but shalt be as the G_ds.

[Lucifer/Sawtawn takes Lilith Chavvah by the hand and the other Chavvahs place their left hands upon Lucifer/Sawtawn and Lilith Chavvah's hands.]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: If thou wilt partake of the Fruit of this Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thy eyes will be opened, for that is the way Mother gained Her knowledge. Thou must partake of this Fruit so as to comprehendeth that everything hath its opposite; good and evil, health and sickness, virtue and vice, Light and Darkness, pleasure and pain, Women and Men, Elect Seed and Cursed Seed, G_ds and G_ddesses, and thus thy eyes shalt be opened and thou wilt hath knowledge.

Lilith Chavvah: Is there no other way?

Lucifer/Sawtawn: There is no other way.

Lilith Chavvah: Then I wilt partake.

[Lilith Chavvah and Sawtawn, whom Lucifer is speaking through, leave the room through an unveiled arch. Upon their return, Lilith Chavvah walks over to Sariah Chavvah and Ruth Chavvah, and as they talk, Lilith places her left hand on her abdomen. This was followed by Sariah Chavvah and Ruth Chavvah placing their left hands upon Lilith Chavvah's left hand, being the Aaronic form. Lucifer then walks over and grins as he places his left hand on their left hands, and while gently patting their hands saying:]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: That is right. Chavvahs, now go and get Ahman to partake.

[The Chavvahs approach Ahman, Sariah Chavvah taking Him by the right hand with her right hand, in the Melchizedek form, and presents the fruit to Him with a persuasive tone of voice with the other Chavvahs placing their right hands upon Ahman and Sariah Chavvah's hands.]

Sariah Chavvah: Ahman, here is some of the Fruit of this Tree. It is delicious to the taste and very desirable.

Ahman: Chavvahs, dost thou knoweth what Fruit this is?

Lilith Chavvah: Yea, it is the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Ahman: I cannot partake of it. Doth ye all not remember that Father commanded us not to partake of or even touch the Fruit of that Tree?

Ruth Chavvah: Doth thou intend to obey all of Ab's commandments?

Ahman: Yea, all of them.

Lilith Chavvah: Dost thou not remember that Father commanded us to multiply and replenish the Earth? We hath partaken and touched that Forbidden Fruit and by so doing shalt be cast out, and thou wilt be left a lone Man in the Garden of Eden.

Ahman: Chavvahs, I now see that this must be. I will partake that Man may be.

[Ahman and Sariah Chavvah exit the room through the same unveiled arch. Upon their return, Ahman is holding Sariah Chavvah's right hand, with His right hand, and Sariah Chavvah is now standing on His right side and is joined by the other Chavvahs, and they place their right hands on Ahman's shoulder, as they stand on His right side. Lucifer/Sawtawn walks over to Ahman's left side with a look of approval.]

Lucifer/Sawtawn: That is right.

[Sariah Chavvah turns to all the Chavvahs, whom art being endowed.]

Sariah Chavvah: For it is not better for us to pass through sorrow that we may know the good from the evil.

[Sariah Chavvah turns to Lucifer/Sawtawn.]

Sariah Chavvah: I know thee now. Thou art Lucifer, speaking thorough Sawtawn, whom wert cast out of Father's presence for rebellion.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Yea, thou art beginning to open thy eyes and see already.

Ahman: What is that Chagorah thou hast on?

Lucifer/Sawtawn: It is an emblem of my power and priesthoods.

Ahman: I am looking for my Ab to come down to giveth me further instructions.

Lucifer/Sawtawn: Oh, thou art looking for thy Ab to come down, art thou?

[The voices of Eloheim and Yahweh art suddenly heard in the Garden, reverberating through the air. Lucifer/Sawtawn slinks off out of view.]

Eloheim: Yahweh, we promised Ahman that we would visit Him and giveth Him further instructions. Come, let us go down.

Yahweh: Let us go down, Eloheim.

Ahman: I heareth their voices, they art coming.

Sariah Chavvah: Behold, we art naked. Let us sew fig leaves together and make us Aprons, for Father wilt see thy nakedness. (JST: Genesis 3:12, KJV: Genesis 3:7, Moses 4:13)

Ahman: Come, let us hide.


Do you read from a different bible other than KJV?
Why yes I do, over 25 different translations, in three different languages. I mostly like the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) and Joseph Smith's Inspired Translation (JST) for English. You might also be interested in a different other Bible I read, they are called the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price. The PoGP has two other accounts of the Garden... :p

You might talk your own advice if that was what you were trying to do here!


Does not the bible teach that Eve is the mother of all living?
Actually that is a loose translation of the Hebrew word 'Chavvah', the word that was translated into English as Eve. See above!


So if there were other wives, that would make them Eve's daughters...but since Adam and Eve were not yet mortal and had no clue as what makes babies...your statement is false.
No, as there were other Eves, they were all 'mothers of all living'. When Adam was naming them, there were No children! Adam was not birthed by any one of those Eves any more then one of the Eves had birthed the other two Eves. So, NONE of them were Mothers yet, let alone a Mother of ALL living. It was impossible at this point! They we're LIFE GIVERS as the word 'Chavvah' means! As Adam was clearly not a women, so he is not called a Chavvah.


Secondly, some people claim that Adam already had previous wives upon arriving into the garden.
He did and does, it really is to bad that you are totally unawares of your own Prophet's saying! See above.


This would have made them resurrected beings. Since we know for a fact that once a body is resurrected and gains back the very body it left behind to never again be separated, this alone would make it impossible for one spirit to inhabit two or more mortal bodies.
Oh, so you know these things for a fact? Well some of the LDS Churches Prophets knew and stated that Adam and Eve were Resurrected Beings, and they saw no problem with Adam laying down His body and picking it up again. I would venture to say that it was the first time for His Eve's to do such, but not a problem with their Husband by their side. This was nothing more than what the Messiah did, only it being His first time.


We also know there are no temple or civil marriages performed in heaven. Therefore, Adam could not have had more than ONE wife.

Mary was sealed to Adam, and was his wife when she had Jesus. Mary will be the Queen to people another world; Mary was the second wife to Adam; and unless we have two wives, we can never be Gods. Adam will worship his God and we will worship Adam, and our children will worship us. (Byron Allred, Jans Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks, 3/22/1877)

Note that Byron Allred's statement that Eve will be a queen of another world shows how Eve can be Adam's daughter and yet be his wife. The argument runs like this:

~ Mary, through several generations of descent, was the physical "daughter" of Adam during her probation on this earth.
~ Mary was sealed to Adam sometime before she conceived Christ.
~ Therefore, Mary, a physical "daughter" of Adam, became his wife during her probation on this earth.
~ Mary will become the Eve of a future world.
~ Therefore, when Mary becomes an Eve of another world, she will be Adam's daughter, wife, and Eve.

If the above statements are accurate, then this teaching is important in context of Adam-God teachings because it suggests that our mother Eve could have been the mother of a savior of a different world - as a "Mary" if we can use this name as a title. This interpretation need not presume that Adam only takes one of his daughters as a wife in each world. However, it may be that the Father and God of a world only takes one of his daughters as his wife from each world - no revealed word conclusively addresses this issue. While it is ennobling to the soul to know that our spiritual heritage springs from two exalted beings, would it not be more ennobling to know that our spiritual heritage springs from a woman so choice that she was chosen over millions of other women to become the mother of the savior of her world? This belief, coupled with the belief that Adam was the savior of his world engenders an understanding that all of the people of this world live among the choicest of all lineages throughout the immensities of space.

Alternatively, the above statements could be read to mean that our mother Eve was an ordinary, valiant woman of another world created by our father Adam. After her mortal probation, Adam chose her to be one of his wives and subsequently created this earth and populated this earth with this woman, our mother Eve.

And though I do not embrace such postulations, still I find them more edifying then those who think they know all the facts, and clearly do not!


A resurrected being cannot take to themselves a second body. Adam and Eve were both spirits without a body of flesh and bones prior to entering the garden and were not mortal until after they fell and entered into the telestial world to toil and earn their bread via sweat and labor.
That was ONLY Adam's job to earn their bread by the sweat of his brow. However, so you know better for G_d than He does, as to what He can and cannot do? I do not presume to limit Him, and it has never been revealed what all a Celestial Being can and cannot do! But yes you are right, lessor Beings once resurrect are so limited.

Just this one point, alone, makes the rest of your statement less than credible.
I would say the same to you many times over!

No one knows when Jesus is to return, not even the angels in heaven. Only the Father of ALL spirits knows. It's in the book!
Within Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2011), 248–60 we read:
“The coming of the Son of Man never will be—never can be till the judgments spoken of for this hour are poured out: which judgments are commenced. Paul says, ‘Ye are the children of the light, and not of the darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief in the night.’ [See 1 Thessalonians 5:4–5.] It is not the design of the Almighty to come upon the earth and crush it and grind it to powder, but he will reveal it to His servants the prophets [see Amos 3:7].”

As for the Messiah coming as a Thief in the night? 1st Thessalonians 5 answer this very well.

1 Thessalonians 5 King James Version (KJV)

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So He will not come as a Thief in the Night to those who watch for Him. The same is true for His servants that come as His forerunners. When Zion is established, a Temple is built in the New Jerusalem, the Ten Tribes return, and many other prophesied events happen, and there is a Prophet who comes and is called David... I think even those who do not believe will have to admit, this is the servant foretold.

“Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come [see Matthew 24:36; D&C 49:7]. Go and read the Scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers.”
Regarding a man who claimed to have seen the sign of the Son of Man, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “He has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man, nor will any man, until after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood; for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the prophet saith, so it must be—‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets.’ (See Amos 3:7.) Therefore hear this, O earth: The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready.”
Within Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2011), 248–60


I am a child of the Light and the Day. If you think the Lord is going to come as a Thief in the Night, because you think no one will know not the day nor the hour... maybe you ought to check and see if your light has gone out? If you think you know who His Prophets are, maybe you ought to hang on their arm and ask them to tell you when, if they are ever told?

If you were to tell the year of Christ's return, you would be guessing also.
I know what I have been told a long time ago (40 years ago now). As years have past and I have been told many other things that were future events and I have watched them come to past, my level of confidence in what I have been told has grown vastly. However, there is no way to prove it to anyone, and I am not here trying too... hence why I left off the year.

Besides, you do not believe it is possible for anyone to know, so for you, it is impossible, and you will see him coming like a thief in the night.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...
Why give me this advice? You do not believe one word of the things I have and do and shall hereafter share here. Maybe if you think this advice is needful, might you run to your Masters whom you esteem as Prophets and give it to them.

But I will give you some advice, which you can promptly reject. When the Sun is darkened and the Moon turns to blood, and even a few days before this, when the world will see this planet coming, and everyone then living will knows the day and the hour, you can make a sign and parade it down State Street in Salt Lake City, reminding everyone that, 'No one shall know, not the Day nor the Hour of His Coming!'

The Difference between your fixation on no one will know the Day nor the Hour, and my belief that this was said to those who lived back then, 2000 years ago, and does not apply to latter day Prophets, Holy Men, seekers who watch, people whom the Lord sends visions, dreams, or personal revelation! But one thing is for sure, only ONE of us is right! And in His coming, were both going to know who it was...

[freedomforall]

In the 1840-1860s they thought it was eminent, that is why they were "gathering to Zion" . I really don't like to think about WHY they believed that or the implications, but I am interested with the the resulting consequences. I can't say it was church wide, but I do know from my family history and from conversing with a few friends and associates there seemed to be a falling away of sorts in utah in after the Turn of the century. I can trace my families wayward ways to that period.

I have wondered if the late 1800's had some of the same pre-millennialism fervor that had Mormons riding so high in the late 1990s that now is seemingly falling apart. And maybe that is not unlike the troubles the ancient Israelites had as they looked for a Messianic Deliver to come and fix everything.

When I was a young man I wondered why I should try if the second coming was eminent. Now as an older man, living 17 years beyond what I expected I gave up looking for a calendar date. Now I pray I can be equal to the tasks before me, and hope my life can be prolonged to see something glorious.

You are not alone. I've been waiting for something to happen to0. I guess we both can say, "the lord delayeth his coming!"

The Lord cannot delay his coming not knowing when it is himself. Only our Majesty on High knows.

Matt. 24:36
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32
32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

As close as we can get is revealed in Rev.

Rev. 16:15 (15–16)
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is when the Mt of Olives splits asunder due to the Savior's feet touching it.

Zechariah 14:4
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Doctrine & Covenants 45:26

Oh!

[freedomforall]

In the 1840-1860s they thought it was eminent, that is why they were "gathering to Zion" . I really don't like to think about WHY they believed that or the implications, but I am interested with the the resulting consequences. I can't say it was church wide, but I do know from my family history and from conversing with a few friends and associates there seemed to be a falling away of sorts in utah in after the Turn of the century. I can trace my families wayward ways to that period.

I have wondered if the late 1800's had some of the same pre-millennialism fervor that had Mormons riding so high in the late 1990s that now is seemingly falling apart. And maybe that is not unlike the troubles the ancient Israelites had as they looked for a Messianic Deliver to come and fix everything.

When I was a young man I wondered why I should try if the second coming was eminent. Now as an older man, living 17 years beyond what I expected I gave up looking for a calendar date. Now I pray I can be equal to the tasks before me, and hope my life can be prolonged to see something glorious.

You are not alone. I've been waiting for something to happen to0. I guess we both can say, "the lord delayeth his coming!"

The Lord cannot delay his coming not knowing when it is himself. Only our Majesty on High knows.

Matt. 24:36
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32
32 ¶ But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

As close as we can get is revealed in Rev.

Rev. 16:15 (15–16)
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is when the Mt of Olives splits asunder due to the Savior's feet touching it.

Zechariah 14:4
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I'm just trying to say that to many, its taking so long for the Lord to return.

Got it.

[kfb]

Serious question, how does Joel Skousen claim to be an expert or authority on these things. He is camped out in Spring City, not really an insider. Couldn't anyone watch the news and spin some great tales of what might be?

I don't need Joel or a self described dreamer to tell me there is big trouble on the horizon.

Serious answer. Joel Skousen and other former Govt/military operatives have a fair amount of connections with former colleagues. Most have reliable insiders and other to verify. Then it's all about being able to use the phone or internet to contact these former colleagues. I think Joel can dial a phone and open a web browser to send emails. He also understand history and politics which allow him to extrapolate and interpolate information to fill in gaps. He isn't always correct but is better than 90% due to his experience and connections.

[gangbusters]

Serious question, how does Joel Skousen claim to be an expert or authority on these things. He is camped out in Spring City, not really an insider. Couldn't anyone watch the news and spin some great tales of what might be?

I don't need Joel or a self described dreamer to tell me there is big trouble on the horizon.

Serious answer. Joel Skousen and other former Govt/military operatives have a fair amount of connections with former colleagues. Most have reliable insiders and other to verify. Then it's all about being able to use the phone or internet to contact these former colleagues. I think Joel can dial a phone and open a web browser to send emails. He also understand history and politics which allow him to extrapolate and interpolate information to fill in gaps. He isn't always correct but is better than 90% due to his experience and connections.

Has Skousen been right about anything that we should listen to him? I'm genuinely asking because I'm unfamiliar with anything besides his name.

[capctr]

Serious question, how does Joel Skousen claim to be an expert or authority on these things. He is camped out in Spring City, not really an insider. Couldn't anyone watch the news and spin some great tales of what might be?

I don't need Joel or a self described dreamer to tell me there is big trouble on the horizon.

Serious answer. Joel Skousen and other former Govt/military operatives have a fair amount of connections with former colleagues. Most have reliable insiders and other to verify. Then it's all about being able to use the phone or internet to contact these former colleagues. I think Joel can dial a phone and open a web browser to send emails. He also understand history and politics which allow him to extrapolate and interpolate information to fill in gaps. He isn't always correct but is better than 90% due to his experience and connections.

Has Skousen been right about anything that we should listen to him? I'm genuinely asking because I'm unfamiliar with anything besides his name.

Well, he has always stood by his assertion that Russia and China are the main threats, and that North Korea is the linchpin-despite others scoffing. Well, what are we seeing today? I agree with 70%+ of his strategic thoughts, and have seen much that is correct.

[freedomforall]

http://joelskousen.com/strategic.html

[BeNotDeceived]

Although I didn't vote for Trump, I don't think it's unreasonable to target the facility from where poisoned gas was sent to kill children. I don't think there is a more appropriate response, actually. We're not invading, not joining the fray. But it does tell Assad (and anyone else) that if you use poison gas to kill children, then it will cost you a base, some planes, and a runway...and maybe even more. I heard a military analyst state that our military monitors every flight of every plane country-wide. They know from where the plane came and followed it as it delivered its payload of poison gas and watched it return. It was that base which was hit.

Unless we're being lied to, this is a pretty prudent and justifiable response.

Right,

So Assad, an ophtalmologist that reluctantly accepted to succeed his father, with top western education, under all scrutiny from the international community, and practically winning the war with the help of Russia, would shoot himself in the foot by doing a chemical attack on a non-combatant area RIGHT AFTER Trump said he could remain in power. Having so much to gain and nothing to lose by doing so.

I'd be laughing my bottoms off if I thought anyone could actually believe this version of the story AND be able to properly tell the time from an analogue clock or properly recite the alphabet.

Watch your bottoms because everyone is eating it right up. I'm with you that it is almost laughable except how terrible it is.

This ophthalmologist/reformer/dictator is still known to have previously killed thousands and thousands of his own people through torture, starvation, and bombings, including the use of poisonous chlorine gas while Obama was President. I don't know whether he did it or not, but as the country's leader, the buck stops with him, so he is being held accountable.

I also don't think he is this innocent victim that some people are making him out to be.

Weird that this thread hit 4 times for advanced search query 777111; now I see it’s “Still Learnings” Post ID #

Prolly looking for 277-7111 because of another train crash.

search.php?

keywords=777111&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[capctr]

Still, it reminds me to refresh myself on some of Skousen’s more recent comments. I don’t agree with everything he claims, but enough that he causes me to think.

[JohnnyL]

Give Joel a few weeks, he will change his mind.

Yep! He is another false prophet. And the fact that he was on Alex Jones says all we need to hear! That guy is a total nut job! I guess Joel didn't listen to President Uchtdorf's talk in general conference?
"One of the ways Satan wants us to manipulate others is by dwelling upon and even exaggerating the evil in the world.

Certainly our world has always been, and will continue to be, imperfect. Far too many innocent people suffer because of circumstances of nature as well as from man’s inhumanity. The corruption and wickedness in our day are unique and alarming.

But in spite of all this, I wouldn’t trade living in this time with any other time in the history of the world. We are blessed beyond measure to live in a day of unparalleled prosperity, enlightenment, and advantage. Most of all, we are blessed to have the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which gives us a unique perspective on the world’s dangers and shows us how to either avoid these dangers or deal with them."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... r?lang=eng

Is Skousen prophesying?

[JohnnyL]

If the US told the Russians, what would prevent them from telling the Syrians? If the Syrians knew why wouldn't they move their assets?

Good point. Who knows which news reports are true anymore. One news site said we spoke with them multiple times about the strikes that were going to take place, and another news site is saying we did not talk to them at all. Ridiculous.

It is truly ridiculous that just a week ago Secretary Tillerson was saying that it was not the goal of the Trump administration to remove Assad from power in Syria. Now with no proof we're killing the citizens of that sovereign country. The United States and its people will deserve all the cursing and buffeting and plagues and death we receive one day.

There's already talk of this being a false flag event to use as justification for escalation. I'm not one for most conspiracy theories, but when you have an event like this and not only are the perpetrators identified right off the bat, but we knew immediately what the chemical agent was. Too many details too fast is always suspect.

Hmm... Most false flags and conspiracy events have perpetrators identified right off the bat, along with weapons, etc.

I don't think you can use that as a differentiation.