September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I'm glad the 3 wise men didn't feel the way you do!! They became witnesses....Mcox wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2017, 8:09 am Be careful when interpreting the last days events. Many look to the heavens and are expecting that the planets and stars are giving us clues? Many spend countless hours adding numbers together that correspond to planets aligning, or blood moons occurring, or eclipses happening. When in my opinion it is not this way at all. Do I believe that planetary things could happen? Yes I do. But I tend to believe the signs are more spiritual in nature. We are to look for the signs in the heavens. A possible interpretation might be this; who dwells in the heavens? It is our Father in Heaven and our Savior. They give the signs. What signs are the “heavens” giving us through the prophets, who are the mouthpiece for God and His son? Are we missing the signs? Most are looking to the planets for the signs, when in reality we need to be looking at what the “heavens” are revealing to the prophets. Just food for thought.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
This September, like the last people thought the world would end, I'll post September by Earth Wind and Fire.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I wanted to take a little more time to reply to this question, If you are talking only about the alignment on the 23rd then no we will not see it. Jupiter will be between Virgo's legs for about 4 hours when the sun is next to her in the sky.Zion2080 wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2017, 7:52 amBronco73idi wrote: ↑March 1st, 2017, 10:31 pmA woman (virgo) is clothed with the sun. The sun is out and overpowering the sign for us to see.Zion2080 wrote: ↑March 1st, 2017, 9:34 amBronco73idi wrote: ↑February 28th, 2017, 10:38 pm As it says "a woman is clothed with the sun" so we aren't seeing it. The crazy part is this was written from a dream!!!!
What do you mean?
So we won't see it! But do you think we'll see the meteor shower? Or will other parts of the world see it instead?
To tie this alignment into Revelation Ch12 is hard, like Mcox said it might be all spiritual. We should still look and seek all. It can keep us on the right path unless we burden our self and make it an obsession. From about verse 4 down it starts with the premortal war in heaven and then cycle back to our time.
From Star charts we know this has about a 7000 year cycle, is this what started it??? Beginning sign becomes the end sign, Interesting thought...
Like I said before The binary planet believers believe the red dragon symbolize Nibiru and then if that is true we would see a meteor shower.
I also mentioned the Hopi indian red kachina https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y1GdKdNhY4
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Bronco73idi wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2017, 10:42 pmI wanted to take a little more time to reply to this question, If you are talking only about the alignment on the 23rd then no we will not see it. Jupiter will be between Virgo's legs for about 4 hours when the sun is next to her in the sky.Zion2080 wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2017, 7:52 amBronco73idi wrote: ↑March 1st, 2017, 10:31 pmA woman (virgo) is clothed with the sun. The sun is out and overpowering the sign for us to see.
So we won't see it! But do you think we'll see the meteor shower? Or will other parts of the world see it instead?
To tie this alignment into Revelation Ch12 is hard, like Mcox said it might be all spiritual. We should still look and seek all. It can keep us on the right path unless we burden our self and make it an obsession. From about verse 4 down it starts with the premortal war in heaven and then cycle back to our time.
From Star charts we know this has about a 7000 year cycle, is this what started it??? Beginning sign becomes the end sign, Interesting thought...
Like I said before The binary planet believers believe the red dragon symbolize Nibiru and then if that is true we would see a meteor shower.
I also mentioned the Hopi indian red kachina https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y1GdKdNhY4
Then I'm going to be waiting for it. Something might happen, like the end of the Times of the Gentiles or something like that.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Go out and look, as I recall this constellation is easy to see shortly before dawn in our hemisphere. There a lot of web sites devoted to astronomy, just find where Jupiter and Virgo are.Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 25th, 2017, 2:40 pmI am old, and I forget a lot of things. When it gets close to the time, if I am reminded of what is supposed to be happening in the sky, I will do further reading on the subject.gruden2.0 wrote:How do you expect that will help?Matchmaker wrote:Please remind us again when it gets closer to the date. Thanks.
As far as whether this is literal or figurative, these astronomical formations apply to both: there is something very literal in these movements, and figurative in the story. If you read the first part of Rev. 12, then look at the sky at the right time, you see fulfillment before your very eyes.
In September, Jupiter will exit the constellation Virgo after having being within it for roughly 10 months (corresponding to the average gestation time for a pregnancy...), and when that happens the moon will be at her foot, the sun at her shoulder (for those that have been to the temple should get that), and will have 12 stars over her head. And the dragon will be waiting nearby...
In theory this should be easy for everyone to understand, judging by some of these posts it's not. Nonetheless we are told there will be signs in the heavens, maybe it helps to know that. The question is, what does it mean? You have to go to the scriptures to get that, although John Pratt's writeup gives a great head start. If you read the scriptures, it marks the beginning of something important. It doesn't mean everyone will see that event (few will), but it will kick off a chain of events everyone will eventually see, even if they don't know why it's happening. John certainly thought it was important enough to write down.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Go ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.
It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Then you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:55 pmGo ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.
It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I've never been a member of AVOW and have never read anything from Young, but I haven't seen anything where Rowe or anybody else claimed that the world (as we know it) would end this September.Mcox wrote: ↑March 4th, 2017, 9:45 amThen you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:55 pmGo ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.
It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Love the write up;)...gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:41 pmGo out and look, as I recall this constellation is easy to see shortly before dawn in our hemisphere. There a lot of web sites devoted to astronomy, just find where Jupiter and Virgo are.Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 25th, 2017, 2:40 pmI am old, and I forget a lot of things. When it gets close to the time, if I am reminded of what is supposed to be happening in the sky, I will do further reading on the subject.gruden2.0 wrote:How do you expect that will help?Matchmaker wrote:Please remind us again when it gets closer to the date. Thanks.
As far as whether this is literal or figurative, these astronomical formations apply to both: there is something very literal in these movements, and figurative in the story. If you read the first part of Rev. 12, then look at the sky at the right time, you see fulfillment before your very eyes.
In September, Jupiter will exit the constellation Virgo after having being within it for roughly 10 months (corresponding to the average gestation time for a pregnancy...), and when that happens the moon will be at her foot, the sun at her shoulder (for those that have been to the temple should get that), and will have 12 stars over her head. And the dragon will be waiting nearby...
In theory this should be easy for everyone to understand, judging by some of these posts it's not. Nonetheless we are told there will be signs in the heavens, maybe it helps to know that. The question is, what does it mean? You have to go to the scriptures to get that, although John Pratt's writeup gives a great head start. If you read the scriptures, it marks the beginning of something important. It doesn't mean everyone will see that event (few will), but it will kick off a chain of events everyone will eventually see, even if they don't know why it's happening. John certainly thought it was important enough to write down.
Mcox, I don't think anyone beside rmkirtland, here is huge fan of the popular NDE crowd. What they write has truths but their timeline is man made and never stands true!!
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
The JST addition to Revelations 12:1 makes this heavenly sign particularly interesting.gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:41 pmGo out and look, as I recall this constellation is easy to see shortly before dawn in our hemisphere. There a lot of web sites devoted to astronomy, just find where Jupiter and Virgo are.Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 25th, 2017, 2:40 pmI am old, and I forget a lot of things. When it gets close to the time, if I am reminded of what is supposed to be happening in the sky, I will do further reading on the subject.gruden2.0 wrote:How do you expect that will help?Matchmaker wrote:Please remind us again when it gets closer to the date. Thanks.
As far as whether this is literal or figurative, these astronomical formations apply to both: there is something very literal in these movements, and figurative in the story. If you read the first part of Rev. 12, then look at the sky at the right time, you see fulfillment before your very eyes.
In September, Jupiter will exit the constellation Virgo after having being within it for roughly 10 months (corresponding to the average gestation time for a pregnancy...), and when that happens the moon will be at her foot, the sun at her shoulder (for those that have been to the temple should get that), and will have 12 stars over her head. And the dragon will be waiting nearby...
In theory this should be easy for everyone to understand, judging by some of these posts it's not. Nonetheless we are told there will be signs in the heavens, maybe it helps to know that. The question is, what does it mean? You have to go to the scriptures to get that, although John Pratt's writeup gives a great head start. If you read the scriptures, it marks the beginning of something important. It doesn't mean everyone will see that event (few will), but it will kick off a chain of events everyone will eventually see, even if they don't know why it's happening. John certainly thought it was important enough to write down.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Ok my prediction- A Latter day king David will be born and possibly a Davidic Servant(Elias,John) shall begin his ministry...I do have to say that whether these events shall occur on the date(ie 23/9/17) or as J.Pratt suggested the sign is heralding the events to happen in the Jewish new year(between sept 17 and sept 18, with April/Passover being most likely date of the fulfillment), I do not know. thanxLDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I am all too familiar, and I'd really like to keep them out of this discussion, for reasons your post alludes to: they bring in other stuff that confuses the topic.Mcox wrote: ↑March 4th, 2017, 9:45 amThen you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:55 pmGo ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.
It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...
As far as end of the world stuff, Rev 12 does say this:
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So sometime shortly after this event Lucifer will cause some kind of earth event that generates a massive flood with the intent of destroying the outcome of this event. This will fail, which will lead to Lucifer declaring all-out war on any remnants of true Christianity.
These are the things I mentioned that would be something everyone would see. If you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will be targeted. Before that there will be a major flooding event that will cause massive devastation where it happens. However, there is no affixed time when this will happen. I think it's a safe bet it will happen within 3.5 years after September, I'm guessing it will be a relatively short time afterward followed by over 3 years of severe persecution. I don't see any point in trying to affix an exact date, but I do see a point in being aware of this and responding accordingly. After September, we're on a countdown.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I get what you're saying. The answer is what it usually is to seek understanding: read, ponder and pray. Since this first came to my attention over a year ago I've done those things. I don't have all the answers, but I know a few things, but they are useless without context. I can tell you this is a big one. This one is worth the time and effort, but time is growing short - less than 7 months now. First trimester is past.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
As I've gotten older, the more I realize God likes to put stuff out there in plain sight to test us to see who is paying attention. The movement of stars and constellations was such a big deal that it was taught to Abraham, who in turn instructed Pharoah - the Egyptians knew it was important, they just didn't have a correct understanding. In our day we mostly ignore it. Kinda interesting to compare to King Herod, who had no clue what had just happened in the sky when the Wise Men showed up, it seems like we're repeating it now. There was a horror then as thousands of families lost little children, what will we lose this time around?
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 2:52 pmI get what you're saying. The answer is what it usually is to seek understanding: read, ponder and pray. Since this first came to my attention over a year ago I've done those things. I don't have all the answers, but I know a few things, but they are useless without context. I can tell you this is a big one. This one is worth the time and effort, but time is growing short - less than 7 months now. First trimester is past.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
As I've gotten older, the more I realize God likes to put stuff out there in plain sight to test us to see who is paying attention. The movement of stars and constellations was such a big deal that it was taught to Abraham, who in turn instructed Pharoah - the Egyptians knew it was important, they just didn't have a correct understanding. In our day we mostly ignore it. Kinda interesting to compare to King Herod, who had no clue what had just happened in the sky when the Wise Men showed up, it seems like we're repeating it now. There was a horror then as thousands of families lost little children, what will we lose this time around?
Wow. That sounds pretty scary! A natural disaster?
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Funny you should suggest it will be an actual flooding. Previously, I have always thought it would be more of an army invasion and some sort of earthquake stopping them from further progress. But last night, for the first time in my life , I had a dream that I can actually remember(well partially :)) ) And there was like a tsunami type huge sea wave and the earth split by(thru Priesthood authority) to swallow the water. Interestingly the wave was not caused by natural means but rather controlled by unknown to me shady characters from the world of politics...I know it may seem too far fetched, but just sharing.Just take it with a pinch of salt , as I dogruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 2:34 pmI am all too familiar, and I'd really like to keep them out of this discussion, for reasons your post alludes to: they bring in other stuff that confuses the topic.Mcox wrote: ↑March 4th, 2017, 9:45 amThen you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 3rd, 2017, 7:55 pmGo ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.
It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...
As far as end of the world stuff, Rev 12 does say this:
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So sometime shortly after this event Lucifer will cause some kind of earth event that generates a massive flood with the intent of destroying the outcome of this event. This will fail, which will lead to Lucifer declaring all-out war on any remnants of true Christianity.
These are the things I mentioned that would be something everyone would see. If you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will be targeted. Before that there will be a major flooding event that will cause massive devastation where it happens. However, there is no affixed time when this will happen. I think it's a safe bet it will happen within 3.5 years after September, I'm guessing it will be a relatively short time afterward followed by over 3 years of severe persecution. I don't see any point in trying to affix an exact date, but I do see a point in being aware of this and responding accordingly. After September, we're on a countdown.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Recession Definition | Investopedia
www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp
The technical indicator of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP), ...
WEIRD that no technical definition of prosperity currently exists, but two consecutive quarters of positive economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP) would fulfill an equal and opposite antonym to "recession". Actually the positive rate of growth should be significant; 3% growth in GDP is generally considered prosperous, and is the lowest rate President Trump has promised. Therefore prosperity would be defined as two consecutive quarters of an annualized 3% or greater increase in GDP.
Using that as a definition would lead one to conclude that if prosperity were to begin the first week of April 2017, then it would officially be recognized by those that adhere to this reasonable definition, on or about 9/23/17.
When one recognizes prosperity to have occurred depends on ones ability to recognize when this second of two quarters is guaranteed to at least equal annualized 3% growth in GDP. BEA reports official GDP quarterly about one month after the end of the preceding quarter. When a quarters GDP growth rate exceeds 3%, would in reality precede the end of the quarter, and may if fact occur on said date.
Recognizing the beginning of a period of prosperity, is an important first step to determine when 7 years is up. :ymhug:
.
www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp
The technical indicator of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP), ...
WEIRD that no technical definition of prosperity currently exists, but two consecutive quarters of positive economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP) would fulfill an equal and opposite antonym to "recession". Actually the positive rate of growth should be significant; 3% growth in GDP is generally considered prosperous, and is the lowest rate President Trump has promised. Therefore prosperity would be defined as two consecutive quarters of an annualized 3% or greater increase in GDP.
Using that as a definition would lead one to conclude that if prosperity were to begin the first week of April 2017, then it would officially be recognized by those that adhere to this reasonable definition, on or about 9/23/17.
When one recognizes prosperity to have occurred depends on ones ability to recognize when this second of two quarters is guaranteed to at least equal annualized 3% growth in GDP. BEA reports official GDP quarterly about one month after the end of the preceding quarter. When a quarters GDP growth rate exceeds 3%, would in reality precede the end of the quarter, and may if fact occur on said date.
Recognizing the beginning of a period of prosperity, is an important first step to determine when 7 years is up. :ymhug:
.
- LDS Physician
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Thank you for your answer. There are a few differences between Herod and I...I don't want to kill the miracle that comes after the sign.gruden2.0 wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 2:52 pmI get what you're saying. The answer is what it usually is to seek understanding: read, ponder and pray. Since this first came to my attention over a year ago I've done those things. I don't have all the answers, but I know a few things, but they are useless without context. I can tell you this is a big one. This one is worth the time and effort, but time is growing short - less than 7 months now. First trimester is past.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
As I've gotten older, the more I realize God likes to put stuff out there in plain sight to test us to see who is paying attention. The movement of stars and constellations was such a big deal that it was taught to Abraham, who in turn instructed Pharoah - the Egyptians knew it was important, they just didn't have a correct understanding. In our day we mostly ignore it. Kinda interesting to compare to King Herod, who had no clue what had just happened in the sky when the Wise Men showed up, it seems like we're repeating it now. There was a horror then as thousands of families lost little children, what will we lose this time around?
Also and back then, the righteous knew what the sign meant while the unrighteous did not. I consider myself one of the righteous (imperfect but striving) and at the very least our church's leadership is righteous, yet I hear and understand nothing regarding what this coming alignment of everything means.
I'm also unaware of any scriptural answers as to what this celestial alignment means.
Finally, and not that it matters much because I don't have a clue as to its significance, the alignment isn't even witness-able: it seems as if the sun is part of it so you won't be able to see most of the bodies in question due to bright daylight.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Well... a quick Google search brought me to an astronomy site that said the following that applies to today:LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 7th, 2017, 5:27 amFinally, and not that it matters much because I don't have a clue as to its significance, the alignment isn't even witness-able: it seems as if the sun is part of it so you won't be able to see most of the bodies in question due to bright daylight.
http://www.skynews.ca/this-weeks-sky/Shortly after Venus sets in the west, Jupiter rises in the east, at around 9 p.m., local standard time. Big Jove is a –2.4-magnitude beacon situated a touch more than four degrees north of first-magnitude Spica, in Virgo.
You can go look and see for yourself. It might be difficult to see at the completion, but right now you can see for yourself. You don't have to take anyone's word for it.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;
What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).JT1 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2017, 12:24 amNote that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;
What's more plain than those first coup ... event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.
Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).
Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
Posts like this one leave me wishing we still had the thumbs up button.DesertWonderer wrote: ↑March 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).
Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).
Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.
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Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!
I agree with brianj, great post – thanks for the response. A couple of follow-up comments:DesertWonderer wrote: ↑March 8th, 2017, 1:40 pmHere's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).JT1 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2017, 12:24 amNote that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.LDS Physician wrote: ↑March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.
Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?
Get what I'm saying?
I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;
What's more plain than those first coup ... event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.
Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).
Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.
1 – The verse refers to it as a “sign in heaven…”; therefore, astronomical event = plausible. I first heard about this event from a non-LDS source (I have no idea who John Pratt is). My first response was “Yeah, right”. Being an engineer I decided to do the math, so-to-speak, so I downloaded Celestia, an astronomy program that models the orbits of planets and maps out stars/constellations etc. as a function of time. Sure enough the said event occurs in September (started in December actually). The parallels with John’s description were direct and very intriguing, certainly to the point that I couldn’t just dismiss it.
2 – You expressed some annoyance with those who say “You have to find out from the Holy Ghost yourself”. I don’t blame you. Perhaps you were not referring to my lack of willingness to state an interpretation of the events the sign symbolizes. But if you were I’ll politely note that in my case I am unwilling only because I’m highly conscious that my present thoughts on the whole subject could be completely wrong. I don’t want to add to the froth of speculation.
In summary, my independent investigation of this event leads me to intellectually (I’m claiming nothing more) entertain the idea that the September event is plausible fulfillment of what John referred to in Revelation 12.