September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by brianj »

BackBlast wrote: March 26th, 2017, 9:27 pm
brianj wrote: March 26th, 2017, 7:58 pm Do those of you who believe that a planetary alignment is what John described think the people who wrote and approved those footnotes were wrong?
Spelled out here
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.
Sorry, not getting it. I see nothing to suggest that this is a last days event or that it is something that nobody will be able to see because of the location of the sun.
Footnotes are footnotes, they are potential aides. They have never been canonized and I've never seen a reason to use them as definitive.

Astrology: the divination of the supposed influences of the stars and planets on human affairs and terrestrial events by their positions and aspects

This isn't a "divination" of human affairs from their positions and aspects. The celestial objects are time keeping pieces, and are intended to testify of the divine plan through signs and symbols. Astronomy and understanding the divine through it is a true principle. Astrology is the false counterfeit.
14 And I, God, said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years;
Properly identifying scriptural or prophetic signs is a proper use of astronomy.
Umm... No. Astronomy is a science. Astronomy involves the study of what exoplanetary objects are made of, their mass, their life cycle, etc. Astronomy is not the study of what's happening in the sky and how it compares to your interpretation of the Bible.

Additionally, you are trying to divine the time of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. This is exactly the definition of astrology.

BackBlast
captain of 100
Posts: 570

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote: March 27th, 2017, 7:17 pm Sorry, not getting it. I see nothing to suggest that this is a last days event or that it is something that nobody will be able to see because of the location of the sun.
Umm... No. Astronomy is a science. Astronomy involves the study of what exoplanetary objects are made of, their mass, their life cycle, etc. Astronomy is not the study of what's happening in the sky and how it compares to your interpretation of the Bible.

Additionally, you are trying to divine the time of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. This is exactly the definition of astrology.
I'm sorry, I believe I misunderstood you about understanding the symbols. That verse tells you the proper interpretation of the symbols I was spelling out. I thought it was that you were not understanding very well, sorry about that.

You continue to call this Astrology and I completely disagree. Astrology is horoscopes, identifying your sign your birthdate, how it relates to your personality, blah blah. Just look up how to do it. Step #1 is... horoscopes.

The fact that the woman represents the church and the child the kingdom of God suggests that this sign also occurs during the temporal existence of the earth. Last days, well, depends on your view of when the kingdom of God is born on earth.

It is specified as a great sign in heaven. As it is the role of the heavens, the bodies and lights there in, to demonstrate signs. I find it a very logical use to say that therein we will find them. A plain reading of Rev 12 and comparing it to the arrangement of Sept 23rd fits perfectly, and it's the only time in 7000 years this occurs. That's a pretty strong and easily understood testament. This is no where near as subjective as lunar or solar eclipses, which is why I believe it was labeled a great sign. You mention that nobody can see it. And I counter that we have the tools today to identify it and "view" it, despite the fact that it is a day time sign. And, it didn't all come together until a few years prior. Which is perfect timing as well if it was only intended to be understood, at large, shortly before occurring.

Using a narrow modern view of the study of the heavens does not mean it isn't an equally valid spiritual topic.

Using the positions of stars, planets, moon, and sun to identify previously specified signs and events is a completely valid use. With existing scriptural examples such as... Detecting the time of Christ's birth by watching the signs in the heavens. The people watching for that sign and then seeking it were labeled as wise men, not deplorable astrological soothsayers.

JT1
captain of 10
Posts: 33

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by JT1 »

Good post BackBlast.

User avatar
Hogmeister
captain of 100
Posts: 850
Location: Sweden/Norway

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Hogmeister »

dafty wrote: March 6th, 2017, 8:14 am
LDS Physician wrote: March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?
Ok my prediction- A Latter day king David will be born and possibly a Davidic Servant(Elias,John) shall begin his ministry...I do have to say that whether these events shall occur on the date(ie 23/9/17) or as J.Pratt suggested the sign is heralding the events to happen in the Jewish new year(between sept 17 and sept 18, with April/Passover being most likely date of the fulfillment), I do not know. thanx
I do not believe the Davidic servant is a single individual. Ref D&C 113. The Davidic servant is likely the restored church and priesthood in the end times (The root of Jesse - A pleasing servant to the Lord, collectively but not individually speaking). There is also the possibility that Isaiah is really referring to at least 2 end time servants that may be difficult to separate in his ancient allegory of the end times (at least he talking about 2 servants in Isaiah 11).

Zion is referred to as a woman in the same section (113) but it is clearly explained that she or Zion is a people in the last days, and so is the servant/decendant to whom rightly belongs the priesthood.

I believe the rod/shoot of Jesse that is referred to as a powerful servant (but no priesthood) is also a people or a nation... guess which? A hint is that the rod of Jesse (the powerful servant with no priesthood which is a people or nation) will leave the root of Jesse (a righteous remnant people) after it (the powerful people or nation) has been removed or is cut off. A true branch (another people) that will bear good fruit will then be grafted/connected to the root (the righteous remnant) and will thus be connected to the stem (Christ).

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Zion2080 »

If the sign occurs this September, then we must know that the Second Coming is NOT in 200-300 years!

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by brianj »

BackBlast wrote: March 27th, 2017, 10:51 pm
brianj wrote: March 27th, 2017, 7:17 pm Sorry, not getting it. I see nothing to suggest that this is a last days event or that it is something that nobody will be able to see because of the location of the sun.
Umm... No. Astronomy is a science. Astronomy involves the study of what exoplanetary objects are made of, their mass, their life cycle, etc. Astronomy is not the study of what's happening in the sky and how it compares to your interpretation of the Bible.

Additionally, you are trying to divine the time of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. This is exactly the definition of astrology.
I'm sorry, I believe I misunderstood you about understanding the symbols. That verse tells you the proper interpretation of the symbols I was spelling out. I thought it was that you were not understanding very well, sorry about that.

You continue to call this Astrology and I completely disagree. Astrology is horoscopes, identifying your sign your birthdate, how it relates to your personality, blah blah. Just look up how to do it. Step #1 is... horoscopes.

The fact that the woman represents the church and the child the kingdom of God suggests that this sign also occurs during the temporal existence of the earth. Last days, well, depends on your view of when the kingdom of God is born on earth.

It is specified as a great sign in heaven. As it is the role of the heavens, the bodies and lights there in, to demonstrate signs. I find it a very logical use to say that therein we will find them. A plain reading of Rev 12 and comparing it to the arrangement of Sept 23rd fits perfectly, and it's the only time in 7000 years this occurs. That's a pretty strong and easily understood testament. This is no where near as subjective as lunar or solar eclipses, which is why I believe it was labeled a great sign. You mention that nobody can see it. And I counter that we have the tools today to identify it and "view" it, despite the fact that it is a day time sign. And, it didn't all come together until a few years prior. Which is perfect timing as well if it was only intended to be understood, at large, shortly before occurring.

Using a narrow modern view of the study of the heavens does not mean it isn't an equally valid spiritual topic.

Using the positions of stars, planets, moon, and sun to identify previously specified signs and events is a completely valid use. With existing scriptural examples such as... Detecting the time of Christ's birth by watching the signs in the heavens. The people watching for that sign and then seeking it were labeled as wise men, not deplorable astrological soothsayers.
Regardless of personal opinion, one accepted and published definition of astrology is trying to divine the timing of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. And if anybody is trying to divine when events will happen based on what they see in the sky, that action fits the definition of astrology.

Question for you: Is a "great sign in heaven" something that will be easy to see or something you only know happens because of science, because of mathematical analysis of orbits predicting where planets will be because you can't actually see them in that location with the sun so close?

BackBlast
captain of 100
Posts: 570

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote: March 28th, 2017, 9:24 pmRegardless of personal opinion, one accepted and published definition of astrology is trying to divine the timing of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. And if anybody is trying to divine when events will happen based on what they see in the sky, that action fits the definition of astrology.
Yet wise men have done exactly that, correctly interpreted a heavenly sign that involved planets and stars and constellations to be able to know when they could see their Savior and were successful in their endeavor due to their wisdom and diligence. Clearly there is an appropriate way to go about this. If that is astrology to you, then I submit that astrology isn't entirely bad.
Question for you: Is a "great sign in heaven" something that will be easy to see or something you only know happens because of science, because of mathematical analysis of orbits predicting where planets will be because you can't actually see them in that location with the sun so close?
In my view. A unique and easily identified sign would fit the definition of great. It's purpose is to give intelligence, not over awe unwitting spectators. Definitely fits with a great sign.

As I said before. Given the tools, if tools are necessary and in this case they are, shows forth wisdom and I find it to be pro-evidence, not a handicap or evidence against it.

User avatar
LateOutOfBed
captain of 100
Posts: 883

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by LateOutOfBed »

http://johnpratt.com/items/docs/2016/cl ... h_sun.html

Well, worth the read in regards to what this may or may not mean.

-- Geoff

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by brianj »

BackBlast wrote: March 28th, 2017, 10:07 pm
brianj wrote: March 28th, 2017, 9:24 pmRegardless of personal opinion, one accepted and published definition of astrology is trying to divine the timing of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. And if anybody is trying to divine when events will happen based on what they see in the sky, that action fits the definition of astrology.
Yet wise men have done exactly that, correctly interpreted a heavenly sign that involved planets and stars and constellations to be able to know when they could see their Savior and were successful in their endeavor due to their wisdom and diligence. Clearly there is an appropriate way to go about this. If that is astrology to you, then I submit that astrology isn't entirely bad.
Unfortunately we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not aware of any time recorded in the scriptures when Mercury going retrograde in Sagittarius was held up as a sign by a prophet. You don't need to provide an example.
Question for you: Is a "great sign in heaven" something that will be easy to see or something you only know happens because of science, because of mathematical analysis of orbits predicting where planets will be because you can't actually see them in that location with the sun so close?
In my view. A unique and easily identified sign would fit the definition of great. It's purpose is to give intelligence, not over awe unwitting spectators. Definitely fits with a great sign.
In this case, a follow-up question: Can you name any one time in history when a unique and easily identified sign was seen by all people, or at least all or the people in a scriptural narrative, and recognized?

JT1
captain of 10
Posts: 33

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by JT1 »

brianj wrote: March 29th, 2017, 7:12 pm
BackBlast wrote: March 28th, 2017, 10:07 pm
brianj wrote: March 28th, 2017, 9:24 pmRegardless of personal opinion, one accepted and published definition of astrology is trying to divine the timing of terrestrial events by the easily predictable positions of planets. And if anybody is trying to divine when events will happen based on what they see in the sky, that action fits the definition of astrology.
Yet wise men have done exactly that, correctly interpreted a heavenly sign that involved planets and stars and constellations to be able to know when they could see their Savior and were successful in their endeavor due to their wisdom and diligence. Clearly there is an appropriate way to go about this. If that is astrology to you, then I submit that astrology isn't entirely bad.
Unfortunately we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not aware of any time recorded in the scriptures when Mercury going retrograde in Sagittarius was held up as a sign by a prophet. You don't need to provide an example.
Question for you: Is a "great sign in heaven" something that will be easy to see or something you only know happens because of science, because of mathematical analysis of orbits predicting where planets will be because you can't actually see them in that location with the sun so close?
In my view. A unique and easily identified sign would fit the definition of great. It's purpose is to give intelligence, not over awe unwitting spectators. Definitely fits with a great sign.
In this case, a follow-up question: Can you name any one time in history when a unique and easily identified sign was seen by all people, or at least all or the people in a scriptural narrative, and recognized?
From George Q. Cannon:
"Even with this experience in the past, the Latter-day Saints themselves are not entirely divested of extravagant views respecting the effects which are likely to follow the fulfillment of predictions yet in the future. Are we not all inclined to look forward to many events which have been predicted by the servants of God as being of so great and wonderful, and I may say so supernatural a character, that when they shall be fulfilled they will even startle us, who believe they are coming, and will compel the unbelieving inhabitants of the earth to accept them as evidences of the truth? In our thoughts this seems to be the natural tendency. I notice it in myself; I notice it in others. When we read respecting the great events which are to take place in connection with this work, as predicted in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, are we not inclined to think that, surely, when these things shall come to pass all the earth, as well as ourselves, will be constrained to acknowledge this to be the work of God, and these events to be indeed those [p. 267a]which have been predicted by the prophets?
Now I would not, for the world, say one word to lessen in the minds of my brethren and sisters the importance of these events; I would not say one word to weaken your proper expectations; but my experience has taught me that the Lord works in the midst of this people by natural means, and that the greatest events that have been spoken of by the holy prophets will come along so naturally as the consequence of certain causes, that unless our eyes are enlightened by the Spirit of God, and the spirit of revelation rests us, we will fail to see that these are the events predicted by the holy prophets."

http://scriptures.byu.edu/jod/jodhtml.p ... 21&disc=29

BackBlast
captain of 100
Posts: 570

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote: March 29th, 2017, 7:12 pm Unfortunately we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not aware of any time recorded in the scriptures when Mercury going retrograde in Sagittarius was held up as a sign by a prophet. You don't need to provide an example.

In this case, a follow-up question: Can you name any one time in history when a unique and easily identified sign was seen by all people, or at least all or the people in a scriptural narrative, and recognized?
I will counter with my own question because your post is sending me mixed signals. If you want to agree to disagree, why then do you continue to throw out straw men and ask questions? You won't let go of the astrology -> bad, all guesses -> astrology argument nor actually address my core facts or logic on the matter. Which means all that remains to me is to repeat what you are ignoring. This is fruitless. Thus, it is at an end and you probably should rest on your first statement.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by brianj »

BackBlast wrote: March 29th, 2017, 9:53 pm
brianj wrote: March 29th, 2017, 7:12 pm Unfortunately we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not aware of any time recorded in the scriptures when Mercury going retrograde in Sagittarius was held up as a sign by a prophet. You don't need to provide an example.

In this case, a follow-up question: Can you name any one time in history when a unique and easily identified sign was seen by all people, or at least all or the people in a scriptural narrative, and recognized?
I will counter with my own question because your post is sending me mixed signals. If you want to agree to disagree, why then do you continue to throw out straw men and ask questions? You won't let go of the astrology -> bad, all guesses -> astrology argument nor actually address my core facts or logic on the matter. Which means all that remains to me is to repeat what you are ignoring. This is fruitless. Thus, it is at an end and you probably should rest on your first statement.
Sorry. I made the mistake of thinking we could agree to disagree on what constitutes astronomy vs astrology, but that you would be willing to name even one singe "unique and easily identified sign" was seen and recognized by all the people in a scriptural narrative. Now you leave me wondering if you evaded the question because you can't provide one instance.

BackBlast
captain of 100
Posts: 570

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote: March 30th, 2017, 8:53 pmSorry. I made the mistake of thinking we could agree to disagree on what constitutes astronomy vs astrology
I have tried to make the point more than once that the distinction is ultimately irrelevant because the very practices you object to, like the general attempts made in this thread, are approved right in the scriptures. But it seems that you also don't want to hear about it or consider it as you've discouraged examples and otherwise don't address the point at all.

This leaves little common ground upon which to base anything. I find that inquiries, when you ignore core facts and logic, feel a lot more like leading questions than genuine quests for knowledge. Those annoy me about as much as straw men and other poor form debate tactics as it seems like it's just probing for weakness rather than taking it upon yourself to attempt to address the meat of what is already laid out before you.
, but that you would be willing to name even one singe "unique and easily identified sign" was seen and recognized by all the people in a scriptural narrative. Now you leave me wondering if you evaded the question because you can't provide one instance.
"Seen and recognized by all" is going to be from the more dramatic list, such as the Samuel the Lamanite's night without darkness sign.

Z2100
captain of 100
Posts: 748

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Z2100 »

gruden2.0 wrote: March 3rd, 2017, 7:41 pm
Matchmaker wrote: February 25th, 2017, 2:40 pm
gruden2.0 wrote:
Matchmaker wrote:Please remind us again when it gets closer to the date. Thanks.
How do you expect that will help?
I am old, and I forget a lot of things. When it gets close to the time, if I am reminded of what is supposed to be happening in the sky, I will do further reading on the subject.
Go out and look, as I recall this constellation is easy to see shortly before dawn in our hemisphere. There a lot of web sites devoted to astronomy, just find where Jupiter and Virgo are.

As far as whether this is literal or figurative, these astronomical formations apply to both: there is something very literal in these movements, and figurative in the story. If you read the first part of Rev. 12, then look at the sky at the right time, you see fulfillment before your very eyes.

In September, Jupiter will exit the constellation Virgo after having being within it for roughly 10 months (corresponding to the average gestation time for a pregnancy...), and when that happens the moon will be at her foot, the sun at her shoulder (for those that have been to the temple should get that), and will have 12 stars over her head. And the dragon will be waiting nearby...

In theory this should be easy for everyone to understand, judging by some of these posts it's not. Nonetheless we are told there will be signs in the heavens, maybe it helps to know that. The question is, what does it mean? You have to go to the scriptures to get that, although John Pratt's writeup gives a great head start. If you read the scriptures, it marks the beginning of something important. It doesn't mean everyone will see that event (few will), but it will kick off a chain of events everyone will eventually see, even if they don't know why it's happening. John certainly thought it was important enough to write down.

Just read the Joseph Smith Translation of Revelation 12. It’s amazingg how he just happened to translate it!

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Alaris »

sushi_chef wrote: March 10th, 2017, 12:31 pm sushi_ kinda believes/imagines there are two types of flooding in the latter day;
one is man-made ones by geoengineering weapons,
the other is a flood of mighty waters overflowing for the drunkards of Ephraim, lake bonneville surfacing, caused by an approaching 10 tribes star.

Image

also california is kinda floating : walker lake submarine https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 0submarine
:-B
sushi_chef,

I'm glad to see your thread take off! Don't let the mocking fools ever dissuade you. I love your zany threads! Joseph Smith tried to teach the Saints that it was better to be believing and that he's never heard of men being condemned for believing too much. Men are however condemned for disbelief and certainly for mocking others. Sad to see so many stand in the large and spacious here, but enough about them. Best to just ignore.

As I was reading some of the awesome posts in this thread, the spirit whispered to me about the woman - the church. She gives birth and then goes into the wilderness. What if this means that the kingdom of God comes from the members of the church, yet once it is established the church has no more place on earth and is therefore taken.
JST Revelation 12:5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.
What if that is the period of the millennium? 360 days X 3.5 is 1260. 3.5 is half of a whole "full" period of 7. Perhaps the symbolism of the church being hidden is during the terrestrial and celestial periods of an Earth where it's brought out again upon a new world. A new world? A new world.

Anyway, if Revelation 12 is about the birth of the Kingdom of God on Earth, and the woman being in the wilderness is a future event, then it will be interesting to see when and how this unfolds. :-?

Z2100
captain of 100
Posts: 748

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Z2100 »

JT1 wrote: March 8th, 2017, 12:24 am
LDS Physician wrote: March 6th, 2017, 7:36 am Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?
Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.
What exactly your interpretation? I would really like to hear :)

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Bronco73idi »

Everyone seems to have a different interpenetration of this sign. Everything up to the red dragon will happen and that is a fact anyone can see with today's software programs of the skies. In verse 4, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to earth:", we had the weak Perseids shower in early aug and will have the Draconids in early oct, but there is no schedule shower for late sep. So if we have another meteor shower like the 1833 Leonids what will we say is the cause?

The 1833 Leonids was one of the biggest driving forces to organize the Seventh-day Adventist movement. What does that mean??? I don't know
http://www.adventistreview.org/night-the-stars-fell

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Alaris »

Bronco73idi wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 8:33 pm Everyone seems to have a different interpenetration of this sign. Everything up to the red dragon will happen and that is a fact anyone can see with today's software programs of the skies. In verse 4, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to earth:", we had the weak Perseids shower in early aug and will have the Draconids in early oct, but there is no schedule shower for late sep. So if we have another meteor shower like the 1833 Leonids what will we say is the cause?

The 1833 Leonids was one of the biggest driving forces to organize the Seventh-day Adventist movement. What does that mean??? I don't know
http://www.adventistreview.org/night-the-stars-fell
The draconids in early October could absolutely be it as that would be shortly after 9/23 and satisfy what the scripture says about the Dragon waiting to devour as soon as the child is born. According to the JST the woman gives birth first and then the Dragon draws the stars. In the original version the stars are drawn first.
JST Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.
4 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman which was delivered, ready to devour her child after it was born.

Bronco73idi
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3623

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Bronco73idi »

IIRC on sep 23 Jupiter leaves virgo womb at sunset. The Draconid meteors happen in the evening hours. If they happen on the same day that would be cool but this is a sign from the lord so it will be aligned with the laws of nature.

The Draconids are scheduled for 7-8th of October. "This shower is usually a sleeper, producing only a handful of languid meteors per hour in most years. But watch out if the Dragon awakes! In rare instances, fiery Draco has been known to spew forth many hundreds of meteors in a single hour."

http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essential ... th-taurids

gangbusters
captain of 100
Posts: 426
Location: The Potato State
Contact:

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by gangbusters »

I have a question for the astronomers on the forum. Last night I was doing an internet search to determine if local astronomy clubs would be gathering to see this constellation on the 23rd since it's such a rare event. Religious aspect aside, you'd think that something so rare would garner some attention. I found no mention of it anywhere other than religious sites.

It kind of made me doubt the significance of the event. Does anyone have an opinion on why it's not more of a big deal to astronomers? Thanks.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Alaris »

gangbusters wrote: September 4th, 2017, 7:07 pm I have a question for the astronomers on the forum. Last night I was doing an internet search to determine if local astronomy clubs would be gathering to see this constellation on the 23rd since it's such a rare event. Religious aspect aside, you'd think that something so rare would garner some attention. I found no mention of it anywhere other than religious sites.

It kind of made me doubt the significance of the event. Does anyone have an opinion on why it's not more of a big deal to astronomers? Thanks.
Why would scientists care that Mars venus and Mercury all align near Leo? Why would they care that Jupiter bounces around inside Virgo for 42 weeks? The scientific community fights religion far more often than not besides. Spaced_out made a great point in another thread. True science supports the fact that there is a Supreme Creator.
2 Nephi 9: 28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.
29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.
This is a true principle of the pride of the wise and learned of the world being at odds with God. It's a facet of the large and spacious building. Scientists point and mock at those who don't show fealty to their mainstream points of view.

Z2100
captain of 100
Posts: 748

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Z2100 »

gangbusters wrote: September 4th, 2017, 7:07 pm I have a question for the astronomers on the forum. Last night I was doing an internet search to determine if local astronomy clubs would be gathering to see this constellation on the 23rd since it's such a rare event. Religious aspect aside, you'd think that something so rare would garner some attention. I found no mention of it anywhere other than religious sites.

It kind of made me doubt the significance of the event. Does anyone have an opinion on why it's not more of a big deal to astronomers? Thanks.
I recently read on Apple News a list of astronomical events that would take place this month. THEY DID NOT MENTION 9/23! Like, every single number of planetary alingments all come together on September 23. There will even be 5 planets in the sky on the 23rd!

User avatar
Red
captain of 100
Posts: 613

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Red »

Bronco73idi wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 10:47 pm IIRC on sep 23 Jupiter leaves virgo womb at sunset. The Draconid meteors happen in the evening hours. If they happen on the same day that would be cool but this is a sign from the lord so it will be aligned with the laws of nature.

The Draconids are scheduled for 7-8th of October. "This shower is usually a sleeper, producing only a handful of languid meteors per hour in most years. But watch out if the Dragon awakes! In rare instances, fiery Draco has been known to spew forth many hundreds of meteors in a single hour."

http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essential ... th-taurids
The Geminid shower is becoming more amazing every year. It's in December and comes from a potentially hazardous asteroid, 3200 Phaethon. Another lunar eclipse follows in January 2018. I only mention Geminid bc it's brilliant and becoming more so each year. And it's kinda fun that a lunar eclipse follows so soon after.

User avatar
LukeAir2008
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2985
Location: Highland

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by LukeAir2008 »

The only significant thing about September 23 is that its New Years Day on the Lords calendar - the Feast of Trumpets. The Autumnal Equinox takes place at around 1400 on September 22 and on the lunar calendar the new moon is September 20 and so it's also the official Jewish New Year(Rosh Hashana) on Sep 20/21.

I notice in the comments a couple of characters warning people not to look to the heavens for signs even though God has clearly told us that we SHOULD look to the heavens and specifically to the sun and the moon - to tell us where we are on the Lords calendar and to look for specific events happening on certain sacred days.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:. Genesis 1:14

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Leviticus 23:23-24

it's a day worth remembering and every year I make a point of finding out when the equinox is and observing that day as God has told us to.

User avatar
Darren
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2720
Location: Leading the lost tribes of Israel to Zion
Contact:

Re: September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

Post by Darren »

Just 2 days to go.

Are you ready!

Image

Post Reply