September 23, 2017: Signs in the Heavens!

[gruden2.0]

Finally, and not that it matters much because I don't have a clue as to its significance, the alignment isn't even witness-able: it seems as if the sun is part of it so you won't be able to see most of the bodies in question due to bright daylight.

Well... a quick Google search brought me to an astronomy site that said the following that applies to today:

Shortly after Venus sets in the west, Jupiter rises in the east, at around 9 p.m., local standard time. Big Jove is a –2.4-magnitude beacon situated a touch more than four degrees north of first-magnitude Spica, in Virgo.

http://www.skynews.ca/this-weeks-sky/

You can go look and see for yourself. It might be difficult to see at the completion, but right now you can see for yourself. You don't have to take anyone's word for it.

[JT1]

Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

[DesertWonderer]

Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first coup ... event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).

Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).

Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.

[brianj]

Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).

Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).

Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.

Posts like this one leave me wishing we still had the thumbs up button.

[JT1]

Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first coup ... event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).

Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).

Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.

I agree with brianj, great post – thanks for the response. A couple of follow-up comments:

1 – The verse refers to it as a “sign in heaven…”; therefore, astronomical event = plausible. I first heard about this event from a non-LDS source (I have no idea who John Pratt is). My first response was “Yeah, right”. Being an engineer I decided to do the math, so-to-speak, so I downloaded Celestia, an astronomy program that models the orbits of planets and maps out stars/constellations etc. as a function of time. Sure enough the said event occurs in September (started in December actually). The parallels with John’s description were direct and very intriguing, certainly to the point that I couldn’t just dismiss it.

2 – You expressed some annoyance with those who say “You have to find out from the Holy Ghost yourself”. I don’t blame you. Perhaps you were not referring to my lack of willingness to state an interpretation of the events the sign symbolizes. But if you were I’ll politely note that in my case I am unwilling only because I’m highly conscious that my present thoughts on the whole subject could be completely wrong. I don’t want to add to the froth of speculation.

In summary, my independent investigation of this event leads me to intellectually (I’m claiming nothing more) entertain the idea that the September event is plausible fulfillment of what John referred to in Revelation 12.

[Hivetyrant36]

A lot of the signs of the second coming can be directly correlated to a close planetary encounter. Think about it. If a planet came close... that would pretty much fulfill everything. Quickly too. Remember when Moses was trying to convince the pharaoh to let Israel go, all those signs? 1 in 10 survived. So it will be in the end of times. Nobody officially knows why the Pyramids were built.. not just in Egypt, all around the world. On a mountain, when a planet is closing in, the magnetic connections will strengthen, and eventually create plasma discharges on high mountain peaks... unless you don't have a mountain. People built the pyramids as an early warning system, but 4000 or more years of no indication of a planetary event and this knowledge is lost across many generations. Christ refered to himself as the "Bright and Morning star," when talking about the second coming. Well... what is the only star considered to be THE morning star? VENUS. Just so happens that Venus will reach the appoaxis relative to Earth in late March and April, and again in 250 or so days. However this time is different than last year... Venus is shining brighter than I have ever seen it. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

Basically, the last 2 months of my study have been devoted to planets and their correlation to the mythologies and character archetypes of the past. Joseph Smith talked about an original planetary alignment with Saturn Venus Mars and Earth, but the people wouldn't hear it, and rejected it, and as such, it is mostly lost to most members. Given that the position of the planets in this solar system are defined by their magnetic buoyancy, and not random gravity based probability, the amount of changes we have been seeing coming from Venus is interesting to say the least. Anybody else see the huge wave in the atmosphere that the Japanese discovered? Also Venus is 98% of Earth mass. Could be another life bearing planet in the past.

[sushi_chef]

two semi-catastophic events, sushi_ can guesstimate, that might occur around the year 2021/2022 and also be analogus to the things of the year around 1837, are;

1. financial crisis that correspondes to the panic of 1837 induced by rothschild syndicate.
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... rothschild

2. fulfillment of bishop koyles prophecy #49

"48. Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together. (many of us on other groups have talked about this one. The 3 we see would be currently: Pres. Hinckley, Bro. Haight and Pat. Smith all in their 90's)

49. In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy. (this will be interesting to see what causes it. It has happened before in the early days and will happen again.)

50. The Bishop told of an interview with the Prophet Joseph in Salt Lake City. The two of them were seeking out the latter general authorities. The Bishop asked Joseph what he was going to do. Joseph's answer was, "I'm going to release them, every last man-jack one of them." (A man-jack is a mule that must be castrated or cut off to remove their unreconcilable stubbornness to Godly direction.) Joseph then stated, "They had their chance and failed!"
"
http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/dreammine.html

also sushi_ semi-opined : 'nde message : 2021, 2001, 1991, 1981'
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45082
:-B

[DesertWonderer]

A lot of the signs of the second coming can be directly correlated to a close planetary encounter. Think about it. If a planet came close... that would pretty much fulfill everything. Quickly too. Remember when Moses was trying to convince the pharaoh to let Israel go, all those signs? 1 in 10 survived. So it will be in the end of times. Nobody officially knows why the Pyramids were built.. not just in Egypt, all around the world. On a mountain, when a planet is closing in, the magnetic connections will strengthen, and eventually create plasma discharges on high mountain peaks... unless you don't have a mountain. People built the pyramids as an early warning system, but 4000 or more years of no indication of a planetary event and this knowledge is lost across many generations. Christ refered to himself as the "Bright and Morning star," when talking about the second coming. Well... what is the only star considered to be THE morning star? VENUS. Just so happens that Venus will reach the appoaxis relative to Earth in late March and April, and again in 250 or so days. However this time is different than last year... Venus is shining brighter than I have ever seen it. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

Basically, the last 2 months of my study have been devoted to planets and their correlation to the mythologies and character archetypes of the past. Joseph Smith talked about an original planetary alignment with Saturn Venus Mars and Earth, but the people wouldn't hear it, and rejected it, and as such, it is mostly lost to most members. Given that the position of the planets in this solar system are defined by their magnetic buoyancy, and not random gravity based probability, the amount of changes we have been seeing coming from Venus is interesting to say the least. Anybody else see the huge wave in the atmosphere that the Japanese discovered? Also Venus is 98% of Earth mass. Could be another life bearing planet in the past.

Reference please.

[gruden2.0]

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first coup ... event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Here's why I disagree with the underlined statement. The JST clearly says that "it is a likeness of things on the earth" In other words it's symbolic of events that will happen on the earth. There is nothing to indicate that it is describing an astronomical event. The notion that John is describing an astronomical event, like the Shemitah sp? and blood moons has come from modern evangelical Christianity. John Pratt who has been referenced in this thread as an authority on the subject, is the only LDS promoting this idea. He has much good information that he writes about and I've read and learned from many of his articles. BUT every now and then, he has some very wacked ideas (prairie dogs have a language, 10 tribes will cross the ocean on a volcanic highway, the Bible code is real and others).

The idea of stars and constellations heralding important events on the earth is hardly new to modern Christianity of any brand. Abraham 3 is all about God teaching Abraham about the movements and magnitudes of stars and planets, and at the same time He teaches him about the organization of spirits and intelligence, which indicates the same principals that govern heavenly bodies also govern us. They are linked.

Abraham also says this:

And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years; (Abraham 4:14)

Another thing that is curious is the people who claim that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event say it will herald certain events. OK fair enough but when asked what they think those events are every time they say (paraphrasing here) "You have to find out from the HG yourself" Really? it's THAT sacred of knowledge that it can't be shared? To me that smacks of gospel elitism kind of like the JR / Snuffer crowd (only those with the secret knowledge, food storage will be saved).

Let's just say for the sake of the argument that Rev 12 is describing an astronomical event. Let's also say that it is a harbinger of things that will happen on the earth. IF that is true, it could be a sign that The Kingdom of God (think Adam ondi Ahman) has begun / occurred.

I think this gets to the heart of your real concern, which seems to be, "I don't understand and you're not telling me, therefore I'm going to downplay or disregard it."

My response is that learning is all based on context; you can learn a new piece of knowledge when you can contextualize it and connect it to something you already know. What good would it do to take a Calculus class if you didn't know any Algebra? You would likely get frustrated and dump the whole thing.

I once prayed to know something and didn't get an answer for a long time. Then, one day, the Spirit did an information dump on me with the answer and I completely got it. I realized the reason I hadn't gotten it earlier is because I was missing key pieces of information to understand the answer. During that time I was led to a book that provided some key basics so the Spirit could explain the rest and I totally got it.

In an inverse example, years ago people kept posting here about the half hour silence in heaven, so I prayed to understand that and got a short vision soon thereafter, but I knew right away I didn't even grasp half of the answer because I had missing gaps in understanding so I couldn't properly contextualize all the information given so I only got part of it (short answer: what people assume is completely wrong).

Read, pray and ponder. This is real. I have been doing those things to understand this for over a year and I recently had a dream about it where I was being shown the signs as they would happen. I can tell you one of the things that stood out to me is that I was looking at all the big things happening in the sky and then marveling more that only very few people were paying attention, even though it was plainly apparent right over everyone's heads. I think that's exactly what's going to happen, it's going to be largely ignored, and it's going to be very costly for some in the short term and longer.

God put up the biggest billboard of all and hardly anyone is looking at it.

[DesertWonderer]

This September, like the last people thought the world would end, I'll post September by Earth Wind and Fire.

Go ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.

It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...

Then you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?

I am all too familiar, and I'd really like to keep them out of this discussion, for reasons your post alludes to: they bring in other stuff that confuses the topic.

As far as end of the world stuff, Rev 12 does say this:

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So sometime shortly after this event Lucifer will cause some kind of earth event that generates a massive flood with the intent of destroying the outcome of this event. This will fail, which will lead to Lucifer declaring all-out war on any remnants of true Christianity.

These are the things I mentioned that would be something everyone would see. If you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will be targeted. Before that there will be a major flooding event that will cause massive devastation where it happens. However, there is no affixed time when this will happen. I think it's a safe bet it will happen within 3.5 years after September, I'm guessing it will be a relatively short time afterward followed by over 3 years of severe persecution. I don't see any point in trying to affix an exact date, but I do see a point in being aware of this and responding accordingly. After September, we're on a countdown.

Just my opinion here...but you take events that were meant to be symbols (i.e. satan sending a flood) literally. I suggest you will NEVER see that "flood".

[sushi_chef]

sushi_ kinda believes/imagines there are two types of flooding in the latter day;
one is man-made ones by geoengineering weapons,
the other is a flood of mighty waters overflowing for the drunkards of Ephraim, lake bonneville surfacing, caused by an approaching 10 tribes star.



also california is kinda floating : walker lake submarine https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 0submarine
:-B

[LDS Physician]

Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Ya. I am often rubbed wrong by statements like yours: "I've figured it out, yet I'm not going to tell you because you'll have to get to my spiritual level of enlightenment yourself." Meh.

[Mcox]

I think it's important to remember that the church is against any form of astrology, which is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.
Which I believe many in the church are doing? Many look at the ailment of stars and planets to predict last days events. This is different from Astronomy, which is the scientific study of stars, planets, and other objects in outer space. Which the church encourages this knowledge.
I do believe as I have stated before, that most of the events of the last days are happening all around us (spiritual not so much physical) and we are so focused on the events being literal, that we are missing the signs. We are looking at the sky's when we should be looking at the heavens!

[Hivetyrant36]

Go ahead, it's a great song, but if you bothered to read what has been said, no one is saying the world will end or approaching it. Scripture isn't saying it, and I haven't seen anything from anyone thinking it will. No earthquakes, no economic crashes, no magnetic pole reversals.

It does however mark something important God wants us to be aware of, something that's important to Him. I'm guessing it will end up going over the heads of most...

Then you aren't familiar with Julie Rowe, or the AVOW/Roger Young crowd?

I am all too familiar, and I'd really like to keep them out of this discussion, for reasons your post alludes to: they bring in other stuff that confuses the topic.

As far as end of the world stuff, Rev 12 does say this:

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So sometime shortly after this event Lucifer will cause some kind of earth event that generates a massive flood with the intent of destroying the outcome of this event. This will fail, which will lead to Lucifer declaring all-out war on any remnants of true Christianity.

These are the things I mentioned that would be something everyone would see. If you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will be targeted. Before that there will be a major flooding event that will cause massive devastation where it happens. However, there is no affixed time when this will happen. I think it's a safe bet it will happen within 3.5 years after September, I'm guessing it will be a relatively short time afterward followed by over 3 years of severe persecution. I don't see any point in trying to affix an exact date, but I do see a point in being aware of this and responding accordingly. After September, we're on a countdown.

Just my opinion here...but you take events that were meant to be symbols (i.e. satan sending a flood) literally. I suggest you will NEVER see that "flood".

Hmm... In my opinion, any time prophecy mentions a dragon and a woman and stuff like that, it's talking about what happened or will happen with the planets. Dragons and serpents are plasma connections between planets. As in the days of Noah.

[DesertWonderer]

.

[DesertWonderer]

I am all too familiar, and I'd really like to keep them out of this discussion, for reasons your post alludes to: they bring in other stuff that confuses the topic.

As far as end of the world stuff, Rev 12 does say this:

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So sometime shortly after this event Lucifer will cause some kind of earth event that generates a massive flood with the intent of destroying the outcome of this event. This will fail, which will lead to Lucifer declaring all-out war on any remnants of true Christianity.

These are the things I mentioned that would be something everyone would see. If you claim to be a follower of Christ, you will be targeted. Before that there will be a major flooding event that will cause massive devastation where it happens. However, there is no affixed time when this will happen. I think it's a safe bet it will happen within 3.5 years after September, I'm guessing it will be a relatively short time afterward followed by over 3 years of severe persecution. I don't see any point in trying to affix an exact date, but I do see a point in being aware of this and responding accordingly. After September, we're on a countdown.

Just my opinion here...but you take events that were meant to be symbols (i.e. satan sending a flood) literally. I suggest you will NEVER see that "flood".

Hmm... In my opinion, any time prophecy mentions a dragon and a woman and stuff like that, it's talking about what happened or will happen with the planets. Dragons and serpents are plasma connections between planets. As in the days of Noah.

Everybody's got one I guess. There is no reason add water to a cup that is already full, right? BUT since I'm a masochistic deep down...I'll try adding a little water anyway. When apocalyptic scripture, which by definition is symbolic, or parables, etc...utilizes a virtuous woman in the story line, the virtuous woman represents the church. In the same way that the bridegroom represents Christ.

[DesertWonderer]

Again...having a sign that occurs without knowing what that sign signifies or what will happen in conjunction with the sign is fairly worthless. You can't just say "this fantastically rare thing is about to happen with all sorts of wonderful astronomical alignments and after that, something significant is going to happen" and then not specify what the significant thing is.

Of course something significant is going to happen after that sign occurs...all of the end time events will happen after that sign, but are they directly associated with it? What's the timing of those events?

Get what I'm saying?

Note that this is not a sign without a connected event. The same chapter (Revelation 12) indicates that the sign is in the likeness of things on the Earth. The chapter then proceeds to explain what will be happening and what the sign means using relatively straightforward symbolism. Certainly the timing may not be to the day, but I doubt the events the sign symbolizes will be very distant in time from the sign itself.

I like what the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “the book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938), 290;

What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Ya. I am often rubbed wrong by statements like yours: "I've figured it out, yet I'm not going to tell you because you'll have to get to my spiritual level of enlightenment yourself." Meh.

lol and a good indicator that that person doesn't know what their talking about.

[DesertWonderer]

sushi_ kinda believes/imagines there are two types of flooding in the latter day;
one is man-made ones by geoengineering weapons,
the other is a flood of mighty waters overflowing for the drunkards of Ephraim, lake bonneville surfacing, caused by an approaching 10 tribes star.



also california is kinda floating : walker lake submarine https://search.yahoo.co.jp/image/search ... 0submarine
:-B

Been reading remote viewers'' material again have we?

[DesertWonderer]

I think it's important to remember that the church is against any form of astrology, which is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.
Which I believe many in the church are doing? Many look at the ailment of stars and planets to predict last days events. This is different from Astronomy, which is the scientific study of stars, planets, and other objects in outer space. Which the church encourages this knowledge.
I do believe as I have stated before, that most of the events of the last days are happening all around us (spiritual not so much physical) and we are so focused on the events being literal, that we are missing the signs. We are looking at the sky's when we should be looking at the heavens!

Her's an excellent talk by DHO that makes the point you mande Mcox.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng

We are living in the prophesied time “when peace shall be taken from the earth” (D&C 1:35), when “all things shall be in commotion” and “men’s hearts shall fail them” (D&C 88:91). There are many temporal causes of commotion, including wars and natural disasters, but an even greater cause of current “commotion” is spiritual.

Viewing our surroundings through the lens of faith and with an eternal perspective, we see all around us a fulfillment of the prophecy that “the devil shall have power over his own dominion” (D&C 1:35). Our hymn describes “the foe in countless numbers, / Marshaled in the ranks of sin” (“Hope of Israel,” Hymns, no. 259), and so it is.

Evil that used to be localized and covered like a boil is now legalized and paraded like a banner. The most fundamental roots and bulwarks of civilization are questioned or attacked. Nations disavow their religious heritage. Marriage and family responsibilities are discarded as impediments to personal indulgence. The movies and magazines and television that shape our attitudes are filled with stories or images that portray the children of God as predatory beasts or, at best, as trivial creations pursuing little more than personal pleasure. And too many of us accept this as entertainment.

The men and women who made epic sacrifices to combat evil regimes in the past were shaped by values that are disappearing from our public teaching. The good, the true, and the beautiful are being replaced by the no-good, the “whatever,” and the valueless fodder of personal whim. Not surprisingly, many of our youth and adults are caught up in pornography, pagan piercing of body parts, self-serving pleasure pursuits, dishonest behavior, revealing attire, foul language, and degrading sexual indulgence.

An increasing number of opinion leaders and followers deny the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and revere only the gods of secularism. Many in positions of power and influence deny the right and wrong defined by divine decree. Even among those who profess to believe in right and wrong, there are “them that call evil good, and good evil” (Isa. 5:20; 2 Ne. 15:20). Many also deny individual responsibility and practice dependence on others, seeking, like the foolish virgins, to live on borrowed substance and borrowed light.

All of this is grievous in the sight of our Heavenly Father, who loves all of His children and forbids every practice that keeps any from returning to His presence.

[BackBlast]

What's more plain than those first couple of versus of Revelation 12 being a direct description of an actual astronomical event. My opinion is that the events the sign symbolizes are of great import, but I won't share my interpretation of the symbolism here. That's for each to do on their own.

Ya. I am often rubbed wrong by statements like yours: "I've figured it out, yet I'm not going to tell you because you'll have to get to my spiritual level of enlightenment yourself." Meh.

The interpretation doesn't require a great deal of effort or knowledge.

The woman is the Church, the child is the Kingdom of God.

Birth is a beginning. Children start small.

There is nothing to say that this event will be seen or noticed by the world at large. Doesn't mean it won't be as important as the scriptures rather plainly state. The Church should be plainly aware of it though.

The real question is, "in the likeness of things on the earth" to mean, realtime? As in it is happening at that very moment? It could be. But it could also be a precursor for the wise to be ready for the moment to come very soon, which I might throw a ballpark guess as to mean sometime within 2-4 years.

We are not to be blind to these times, the Lord has stated that by watching we may indeed know the season. I believe this to be one of those markers of the season.

[sushi_chef]

Been reading remote viewers'' material again have we?

might this one?!
"The second dream was more like a vision. It was about 20 years ago: I literally was driving south on I-15 in the early afternoon. This was before the freeway was widened....
. As I looked toward the north I saw the Salt Lake Temple completely surrounded by water. It was raised up slightly and had what seemed a moat of dangerous water around it. Further north towards Bountiful, Centerville and Ogden I saw fires and smoke in the distance. The water from Temple Square (the Tabernacle was destroyed) rushed out towards the Great Salt Lake and then it filtered into the desert towards Tooele and Grantsville. This was my panoramic view of what the Salt Lake Valley was going to look like after a huge earthquake.
"
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19185&hilit=dream&start=60#p420714
:-B

[brianj]

The interpretation doesn't require a great deal of effort or knowledge.

The woman is the Church, the child is the Kingdom of God.

Birth is a beginning. Children start small.

There is nothing to say that this event will be seen or noticed by the world at large. Doesn't mean it won't be as important as the scriptures rather plainly state. The Church should be plainly aware of it though.

The real question is, "in the likeness of things on the earth" to mean, realtime? As in it is happening at that very moment? It could be. But it could also be a precursor for the wise to be ready for the moment to come very soon, which I might throw a ballpark guess as to mean sometime within 2-4 years.

We are not to be blind to these times, the Lord has stated that by watching we may indeed know the season. I believe this to be one of those markers of the season.

Apparently the interpretation does require a great deal of effort. As I read Revelation, including the very helpful information in the footnotes, I am convinced the description is symbolic. The dragon is Satan, the third of the stars are the third of the hosts of Heaven, the child is the church, etc. Yet plenty of people here disregard the church's counsel to avoid astrology and convince themselves that an alignment nobody will be able to see because the sun will be in the middle of the event is what was described by John.

Do those of you who believe that a planetary alignment is what John described think the people who wrote and approved those footnotes were wrong?

[BackBlast]

The interpretation doesn't require a great deal of effort or knowledge.

The woman is the Church, the child is the Kingdom of God.

Birth is a beginning. Children start small.

There is nothing to say that this event will be seen or noticed by the world at large. Doesn't mean it won't be as important as the scriptures rather plainly state. The Church should be plainly aware of it though.

The real question is, "in the likeness of things on the earth" to mean, realtime? As in it is happening at that very moment? It could be. But it could also be a precursor for the wise to be ready for the moment to come very soon, which I might throw a ballpark guess as to mean sometime within 2-4 years.

We are not to be blind to these times, the Lord has stated that by watching we may indeed know the season. I believe this to be one of those markers of the season.

Apparently the interpretation does require a great deal of effort. As I read Revelation, including the very helpful information in the footnotes, I am convinced the description is symbolic. The dragon is Satan, the third of the stars are the third of the hosts of Heaven, the child is the church, etc. Yet plenty of people here disregard the church's counsel to avoid astrology and convince themselves that an alignment nobody will be able to see because the sun will be in the middle of the event is what was described by John.

Do those of you who believe that a planetary alignment is what John described think the people who wrote and approved those footnotes were wrong?

Spelled out here

7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

Footnotes are footnotes, they are potential aides. They have never been canonized and I've never seen a reason to use them as definitive.

Astrology: the divination of the supposed influences of the stars and planets on human affairs and terrestrial events by their positions and aspects

This isn't a "divination" of human affairs from their positions and aspects. The celestial objects are time keeping pieces, and are intended to testify of the divine plan through signs and symbols. Astronomy and understanding the divine through it is a true principle. Astrology is the false counterfeit.

14 And I, God, said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years;

Properly identifying scriptural or prophetic signs is a proper use of astronomy.

[BackBlast]

Quick follow up.

I would like to say that generally bride/woman/virgin are symbolic of a supplicant, follower, or church - those who would attach themselves to the bridegroom - Christ, individually or collectively. Such a symbol is very good at spanning generations while yielding its information readily.

[OCDMOM]

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/201 ... h_sun.html. This is an article by John Pratt on the Astronomy of 23 Sept 2017. He believes that all the constellations represent Christ. Here is his conclusion." Three possible fulfillments are proposed of the prophecy in Rev. 12 of the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet who delivers a man child whom a dragon wants to devour. Each of those corresponds to configurations of the sun and moon in those locations in the constellation of the Maiden (Virgo) on the Feast of Trumpets: one in 2 BC, one in 1832 and one in 2017. In the first the woman represents the Virgin Mary, her son is Jesus Christ and the attempt of the dragon is the slaughter of the infants. The sign is understood as heralding the birth of the Savior on the following Passover.

The second proposed date is a perfect fit because the planet Venus, which is identified with Christ, is near Spica, the star representing the son of the Maiden. Moreover Venus is in the "Birth" phase of its cycle. And finally, there are two planets located near her head where the prophecy says there should be a crown of stars. The event being heralded by this sign is the birth of the political Kingdom of God on the following Passover. The inclusion in the prophecy of the dragon casting down the stars of heaven shortly thereafter is identified with the Night the Stars Fell in Nov 1833.

Finally, on Sat 23 Sep 2017 there will be a similar fulfillment to that of 1832 with the planet Jupiter being "born" of the woman after a 10 month gestation period in her womb. That is especially interesting because again there is a planet at her crown and it also occurs on a holy day on nine sacred calendars, the most for any day in 2017. The meaning of this sign is not clear to me, but it is noted that the Kingdom of God was taken to heaven shortly after birth, so this sign might herald some sort of return or rebirth of the Kingdom of God."