Affording a Family in the Last Days

[Sirocco]

A business is a great way, especially if you can make it positive cash flow (doesn't have to be much)--IRS stuff. And never round your dollars on tax forms!

Communal living is actually easier and cheaper in so many ways. We did it--had a big living room we'd take turns cleaning, and since it's communal, you naturally put your stuff up. One washing machine for three families. Kitchen appliances, cars, power tools, bigger TV's, whatever, shared by all.

Drama queens--so important for everyone to chill out!--just like with roommates.

My life has been working up to where I can live by myself.
And I do, and it's a comfortable situation. I mean I'd like a house butt I never went to collage or university, I didn't want the debt and have seen friends getting useless degrees.
A girl I liked a few months ago went to university and worked in the same sort of job I did, same sort of place.

I like my friends but I'd never want to live with them.
I can enjoy the rest of my 20s by myself, before, I make like a decision to perhaps relocate and live with my father in the states before getting a foothold and getting a new 1 bedroom apartment.

[Bronco73idi]

I've made the teachings and doctrines of the gospel the foundation of my life. I dropped out of graduate school to stay home and raise my children, and thankfully, my husband fully supported me in this decision. This meant living on my husband's income and giving up the opportunity for a lucrative career and the praise and recognition which would have come with it. Not everyone has to make that choice, but I fasted and prayed and received the answer that I knew what I must do and so I did it. Our focus was on eternal things and the goals we wanted for the family we were creating together.

I've followed the teachings and counsel I've received in church to try to be a loving wife, a 'help meet' to my husband and to raise our daughters in a home of harmony, faith, forgiveness, love and happiness. I hope that one day I'll be able to see the good I did in choosing to be a full-time mother, because too often the message from the world outside is negative. I'm lucky that my children are mostly grown and so I'm able to look back and see how they've thrived because of the sacrifices my husband and I made. My heart goes out to women like Yahtzee who are trying to do this, with no support from society and even sadly from members within the church.

I'm not trying to insult your decision. Just the fact you are here on this forum tells me that you are trying to learn and understand more as I. I learn so much from this forum.. Like I said I'm bias, its not about money. It's about the ignorance that is spread thru this country from feminist... If they want to cry about being an equal then they need to put their shoulder to the wheel and push along... Didn't we have a talk recently about listing to the holy ghost and one college kid heard "clean your room" Do your duty with a heart full of song. I have yet to meet a stay at home mom that doesn't complain when she gets to know you (usually as a couple), the husband doesn't complain.

This problem has been around since history began to a certain degree, Proverbs 21:19.

It always becomes worse when we become more civilized.

Food for thought, If we were all pushing the wheel with a heart full of song would we have feminist??? The city of Zion, hmmmm....

[Yahtzee]

I've made the teachings and doctrines of the gospel the foundation of my life. I dropped out of graduate school to stay home and raise my children, and thankfully, my husband fully supported me in this decision. This meant living on my husband's income and giving up the opportunity for a lucrative career and the praise and recognition which would have come with it. Not everyone has to make that choice, but I fasted and prayed and received the answer that I knew what I must do and so I did it. Our focus was on eternal things and the goals we wanted for the family we were creating together.

I've followed the teachings and counsel I've received in church to try to be a loving wife, a 'help meet' to my husband and to raise our daughters in a home of harmony, faith, forgiveness, love and happiness. I hope that one day I'll be able to see the good I did in choosing to be a full-time mother, because too often the message from the world outside is negative. I'm lucky that my children are mostly grown and so I'm able to look back and see how they've thrived because of the sacrifices my husband and I made. My heart goes out to women like Yahtzee who are trying to do this, with no support from society and even sadly from members within the church.

And yet, now I just did receive support within the church. thanks AI2.0!!
I feel a kinship because I had just started the grad school prereqs when I got a very clear and sacred prompting that I needed to be home with my baby.
Funny enough, each time I've looked at going back to get my master's I become pregnant. 4 kids later you'd think I'd take a hint ;-)

[Bronco73idi]

I've made the teachings and doctrines of the gospel the foundation of my life. I dropped out of graduate school to stay home and raise my children, and thankfully, my husband fully supported me in this decision. This meant living on my husband's income and giving up the opportunity for a lucrative career and the praise and recognition which would have come with it. Not everyone has to make that choice, but I fasted and prayed and received the answer that I knew what I must do and so I did it. Our focus was on eternal things and the goals we wanted for the family we were creating together.

I've followed the teachings and counsel I've received in church to try to be a loving wife, a 'help meet' to my husband and to raise our daughters in a home of harmony, faith, forgiveness, love and happiness. I hope that one day I'll be able to see the good I did in choosing to be a full-time mother, because too often the message from the world outside is negative. I'm lucky that my children are mostly grown and so I'm able to look back and see how they've thrived because of the sacrifices my husband and I made. My heart goes out to women like Yahtzee who are trying to do this, with no support from society and even sadly from members within the church.

And yet, now I just did receive support within the church. thanks AI2.0!!
I feel a kinship because I had just started the grad school prereqs when I got a very clear and sacred prompting that I needed to be home with my baby.
Funny enough, each time I've looked at going back to get my master's I become pregnant. 4 kids later you'd think I'd take a hint ;-)

4 kids, that's pushing the wheel!! Congratulations

[Sunain]

Right off the bat in this Ensign article from March 2017, the title is demeaning to single adults that can't get married be it: opportunity to marry, affordability to marry, or finding a worthy and compatible companion to love throughout eternity. I do not want to rant but the church needs to understand the perspective of the single adult members of the church, otherwise the current trend of them leaving the church is going to continue to escalate because they are not willing to assist or adapt to the conditions the world is placing. As a single adult rep for my stake, I constantly talk to the single adults and it just keeps getting tougher each year but when the church is not a refuge from the storm of the world, that is a serious concern.

The church refuses to acknowledge the socio-economic effects of living in a family without enough funds to support extracurricular activities with friends and the community. This is a huge impact on families today that is ignored and rarely addressed. If it is addressed, it is always shrugged off as: "we can do without' these things. The Lord will bless us." Not being able to afford a family is not a marriage-preparation paradox, it is the reality in most countries today. The church has taught through the scouting young men's program the motto: "Be Prepared!" and now when they are told that what they are doing to be prepared for marriage is wrong, they get extremely discouraged, offended and loose hope. There is the actual hypocritical paradox. The article goes on to point out 3 things that even the article's author points out is not applicable to members of the church!

Delaying Marriage: The Trends and the Consequences
By Jason S. Carroll, PhD
Professor in the School of Family Life, Brigham Young University

Over the past few decades, the age of marriage has been rising in every region of the world for both women and men.2 In many developed nations we’re approaching the point where more than half of marriages will occur after age 30.

To be clear, these trends are not common among devout members of the Church, but they are becoming the encouraged norm among young adults in many nations.

Most of those who engage in the marriage-preparation paradoxes that I will mention are not doing so as part of the abandonment of marriage but because they believe these actions will actually strengthen their future marriages. The Book of Mormon warns against this type of paradoxical logic, saying there will be those “that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter” (2 Nephi 15:20). Thus, as a result of such paradoxical logic, many young adults are intentionally delaying marriage and are preparing for marriage in ways that are actually producing the opposite of what they intend.

The Beaverton is a social commentary satire site for Canadians similar to The Onion but what makes the articles funny and often sad, is that they aren't far off from the truth. The article below illustrates what is happening in this generation.

Lotto 649 commercial features the dream of owning a 1 bedroom condo in Toronto
TORONTO – Lotto 649’s newest commercial showcases the dream of purchasing a fifth-floor condo somewhere in downtown Toronto.

The 30-second clip features one lucky couple celebrating in an empty 900 square foot unit that has a spectacular view of other condominiums in the city’s core from the balcony with a busy street below. The actors celebrate while clinking their wine glasses filled with sparkling white wine before the camera pans to the kitchen’s vinyl counter top showcasing a signed property deed and a letter outlining the rules of the building from the condo board.

Also featured in the advertisement is the building’s shared pool and the fake plants that are covering up the water damage in the lobby. The commercial ends with the amount of this week’s estimated jackpot.

A spokesperson for the Inter-Provincial Lottery Corporation which administers Lotto 649 says that the new commercials are more down-to-earth.

“Winners of our lottery can really chase that Toronto dream of middle-class living,” said the official. “But we didn’t want to feature unrealistic images such as owning a semi-detached home in Rosedale or being able to retire.”

Source: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/03/lo ... o-toronto/

The church teaches to stay out of debt, a noble goal. They also teach to get married young (too young for the current world conditions I might add). Another example of why President Hinckley said to get our houses in order and stay out of debt. So, the other dilemma is, do we get married and go into excessive debt to afford that marriage?! Church doesn't want to address that issue because they are obviously in conflict in the economic conditions. Debt also leads to higher marriage breakups.

More millennials grappling with high debt loads, says bankruptcy trustee

Rob Kilner gets a lot of visits from cash-strapped millennials. The Barrie, Ont.-based licensed insolvency trustee says there’s been a decided uptick – 20 per cent over the past five years – in the number of twenty- and thirtysomethings who are seeking solutions to their debt woes.

Many are homeowners.

“I’m seeing more and more [millennials]. It’s a substantial increase. Every time you see a millennial walk into your office – it’s disturbing,” he says.

Part of the problem, Mr. Kilner says, is how easy it is to borrow money these days. Credit cards are all-too-easy to obtain, and payday loans are just a click away. Those issues, combined with a lack of financial education and soaring housing costs, are laying the groundwork for a troublesome financial future, he says.

According to the Bank of Canada, the steady increase in the country’s household debt has been driven by highly indebted households under the age of 45, which doubled to 8 per cent of all indebted households in 2012-14 from 4 per cent in 2005-07.

Mr. Kilner says the bulk of his younger clients come in after they have defaulted on a high-interest loan on a vehicle or on a payday loan. “Millennials are very susceptible to that – because they've grown up [with debt].”

Although the Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy Canada doesn’t track millennials specifically, there was a 4.4-per-cent jump in the number of consumer debt-settlement proposals to creditors. Such appeals are made as a last resort before being forced to file for personal bankruptcy. Across Canada, that number increased to 125,907 proposals in September, 2015, from 120,261 a year earlier.

Trevor Pringle, a licensed insolvency trustee with Hamilton-based Spergel, says his clients typically have high levels of credit-card debt and student loans.

“People more readily carry debt,” says Mr. Pringle.

“The credit card companies grant them the credit cards, and they use them and they don’t have the means to pay them back,” he says. “They also have student loans that are not dischargeable, which complicates their situation,” he says, in reference to debts that are not eliminated by declaring bankruptcy.

Home buying: a whole new layer of debt

Dave Bryant, a Toronto-based mortgage broker, spends a lot of his time talking millennials out of buying homes. “It has cost me business,” he admits.

He says most of his younger clients have between $20,000 and $30,000 in student debt, have low-paying jobs or work on commission – which means their earnings can vary wildly year to year.

But despite being laden down with debt, many still aspire to home ownership. “Most millennials are looking to buy the preconstruction condos,” says Mr. Bryant, following the advice of a realtor who tells them it’s a good investment plan. Armed with a down payment from their parents, they then apply for a letter of preapproval for a mortgage.

And that’s where they run into trouble, he says.

“You actually have to qualify for that letter of pre-approval,” says Mr. Bryant, something that can’t happen if a person has only worked for six months to a year – a category many millennials fall into.

Plus, “they need to create that credit file,” says Mr. Bryant, adding that millennials need to demonstrate they have a solid credit history with a card of their own – not a joint account with a parent. He suggests establishing good credit by putting small purchases consistently on a credit card – and paying them off entirely each month.

Mr. Bryant also counsels millennials to pay their debt off before taking on the financial burden of a condo or house. “You need to pay that down,” he says. “[Debt from student assistance programs] is not going to go away.”

For those millennials who have taken the plunge and bought a home recently, the debt can quickly become insurmountable. “If we see a millennial and home owner –and they’re bought recently – these loans are very high,” says Mr. Kilner. “To own a house right now, there’s a very high mortgage. And the income stream hasn’t kept pace.”

He says many millennials are spending over half their take-home income on mortgages. But they still have to cover utilities, living expenses and food. That’s where the Visas and MasterCards come in. “They end up living off credit,” says Mr. Kilner.

Mr. Pringle says that although he does see clients who are house-poor, “one of the reasons people have been able to avoid insolvency is that they’ve been able to leverage their equity in their houses with rising house prices.”

That situation likely won’t last. “At some point down the road, they’re going to be in a situation where house prices aren’t rising and they won’t be able to leverage that equity and they’re going to have to deal with it,” says Mr. Pringle.

Mr. Kilner is bracing for more clients when interest rates rise. Right now, he sees six to seven millennials a month – up from one every six months just a few years ago – who come in to file a consumer proposal, an appeal to creditors, or file for bankruptcy.

“As interest rates start to increase, that’s when we will see a lot more losing their houses,” he says.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... e34173773/

So what does the church do to help the youth of the church with affordable housing? The decide to build expensive high end homes! Yeah, that's going to help! Just fulling the problem.

[AI2.0]

Right off the bat in this Ensign article from March 2017, the title is demeaning to single adults that can't get married be it: opportunity to marry, affordability to marry, or finding a worthy and compatible companion to love throughout eternity. I do not want to rant but the church needs to understand the perspective of the single adult members of the church, otherwise the current trend of them leaving the church is going to continue to escalate because they are not willing to assist or adapt to the conditions the world is placing. As a single adult rep for my stake, I constantly talk to the single adults and it just keeps getting tougher each year but when the church is not a refuge from the storm of the world, that is a serious concern.

The title was 'delaying' marriage. That implies a purposeful action. A choice.
I'm sorry, but this church is all about Marriage, family and children. Of course they are going to discourage people from making the active decision to put off looking for a suitable marriage partner or putting off marriage if one has found one.

I don't know what you want the church to do to 'adapt' or 'assist', but I think they are going to continue to encourage young people to marry. That's what they want for them and that's what they are going to teach. If a person's priorities are in the right place, they are goal oriented and hard working, and emotionally healthy, sufficiently mature, they shouldn't have trouble making a home together and starting their family.

No one needs to go into 'excessive debt' to afford marriage, unless they are immature, self-centered and have unrealistic expectations. I know plenty of young couples who manage just fine, and they start their families too. They live in inexpensive apartments, or sometimes with family, so they can save money, while they finish school. They are willing to forego luxuries and wants for a better future down the road.

[Yahtzee]

Maybe this is an area where we need to be more of a peculiar people.

[AI2.0]

Maybe this is an area where we need to be more of a peculiar people.

Thanks, I think you are right, we will be a peculiar people if we reject the messages the world is giving on this, especially believing that a family cannot live on one income or the belief that couples should delay marriage and children. But we will be a blessed people,IMO, if we trust Heavenly Father and follow the promptings we receive when we humbly and prayerfully are open to them.

In thinking on this, I've wondered if the last twenty years of some LDS families following the world's views on this has not hurt their children and made them more vulnerable to the vices and problems of the world--more susceptible to living below their spiritual privileges and to even falling away.

[JohnnyL]

If you want to live in a trailer park or a small subsidized apartment; or with your parents for a few years--yes, you can have a small family.
If you want to go to college and collect $50,000 in student debt--pretty hard.
If you are not in good health--pretty hard.
If you are not good socially--pretty hard.
And on and on...

[brianj]

The title was 'delaying' marriage. That implies a purposeful action. A choice.
I'm sorry, but this church is all about Marriage, family and children. Of course they are going to discourage people from making the active decision to put off looking for a suitable marriage partner or putting off marriage if one has found one.

I don't know what you want the church to do to 'adapt' or 'assist', but I think they are going to continue to encourage young people to marry. That's what they want for them and that's what they are going to teach. If a person's priorities are in the right place, they are goal oriented and hard working, and emotionally healthy, sufficiently mature, they shouldn't have trouble making a home together and starting their family.

No one needs to go into 'excessive debt' to afford marriage, unless they are immature, self-centered and have unrealistic expectations. I know plenty of young couples who manage just fine, and they start their families too. They live in inexpensive apartments, or sometimes with family, so they can save money, while they finish school. They are willing to forego luxuries and wants for a better future down the road.

The last I heard, the counsel given to us was to not have more family than we can care for. I have known church members who live in poverty, getting most of their food from Bishops Storehouses and constantly trying to get money from family and friends. Is that what is meant by caring for family? Or are we supposed to only have the number of children we can physically, psychologically, emotionally, AND financially care for?

Almost all of the young families I have known are completely unable to get by on their own. They rely on government assistance (while ironically holding strong political opinions against a welfare state), church assistance, and family assistance. Church leaders have told us of the spiritual poison of welfare and living off the dole, and I really do not see any difference between living off the government, living off family, or living off the church.

What's the advice for a young man and a young woman who fall in love and want to get married, they don't have anywhere near the income necessary to support themselves, and they don't have family they can rely on?

In the 1980s I became aware of household incomes not keeping pace with income. This had probably been happening since large numbers of women entered the workforce, driving supply far over demand and thereby suppressing wages. In the 1990s I pursued a computer science degree, expecting that qualification to give me a comfortable income. But employers have been offshoring and importing labor as quickly as they can to suppress wages. I don't know that any career field is safe any longer.

[JohnnyL]

In the 1990s I pursued a computer science degree, expecting that qualification to give me a comfortable income. But employers have been offshoring and importing labor as quickly as they can to suppress wages. I don't know that any career field is safe any longer.

They are looking for civilian computer programmers on bases.

[brianj]

In the 1990s I pursued a computer science degree, expecting that qualification to give me a comfortable income. But employers have been offshoring and importing labor as quickly as they can to suppress wages. I don't know that any career field is safe any longer.

They are looking for civilian computer programmers on bases.

Take a closer look at those jobs; I have. Defense and other government jobs are just about the only places where a programmer can't be outsourced or replaced with an H1-B worker. Unfortunately, almost all the jobs I have seen require candidates to already have a security clearance- which I don't have. The rest of the jobs require either an active clearance or eligibility, and I understand that they get enough candidates with active clearances that I will never get called in for an interview.

I felt forced into the network/ sysadmin role because it can't be outsourced to India, but finding a job in this category can be extremely difficult as employers want very specific qualifications. Ten years of Debian Linux? Sorry, we use Red Hat. Seven years of MS server 2008? Sorry, we want someone with 2+ years of Server 2012.

[AI2.0]

Brianj and johnnyl, I'm just not interested in arguing this with you, and Brianj, you twist what I said to claim that I support young couples sponging off family members and taking advantage of others.

If you think the world is right and the church is wrong, then I guess you follow the world.

[Bronco73idi]

Reading this thread reminds me of when I researched the possibilities of Jesus being married. One of the facts was the Jewish language didn't have a word for bachelor until roughly 900AD. I agree with the church, marry at a reasonable young age and trust in the lord.

If you look at my past you would find a person who could easily justify waiting for maturity and education to be married. Married in the San Diego temple at 22 and divorced at 30. I am told all the time I'm too smart for my own good, iq 132 and I'm a master mechanic at Toyota not a doctor or lawyer. My favorite quote from a coworker is "I know we are technicians but you don't have to speak so technical" I just laughed.

Like I told my 16 yr old daughter recently, "school implies that are ancestors weren't intelligent through teaching that we are getting smarter, that is why we are so technically more advanced then say 2000 years ago." Then I asked her "do you think Jesus was intelligent?" She softly said "yeah" I then said "I think he was a genius, smarter then you and me and he was a carpenter(masonry most likely). He could have been a lawyer or doctor but that wasn't his calling." My point to her was to show that all the lords chosen prophets were intelligent and we today can look up to them and not think "what do they really know!"

That ties into the point of this discussion, if blue collar labor was good enough for the lord then why isn't it good enough for some of us??

So when someone says they need to be prepared I wonder if their definition of prepared is way beyond the scope of the lords definition... Just saying, food for thought....

[JohnnyL]

In the 1990s I pursued a computer science degree, expecting that qualification to give me a comfortable income. But employers have been offshoring and importing labor as quickly as they can to suppress wages. I don't know that any career field is safe any longer.

They are looking for civilian computer programmers on bases.

Take a closer look at those jobs; I have. Defense and other government jobs are just about the only places where a programmer can't be outsourced or replaced with an H1-B worker. Unfortunately, almost all the jobs I have seen require candidates to already have a security clearance- which I don't have. The rest of the jobs require either an active clearance or eligibility, and I understand that they get enough candidates with active clearances that I will never get called in for an interview.

I felt forced into the network/ sysadmin role because it can't be outsourced to India, but finding a job in this category can be extremely difficult as employers want very specific qualifications. Ten years of Debian Linux? Sorry, we use Red Hat. Seven years of MS server 2008? Sorry, we want someone with 2+ years of Server 2012.

Are you willing to move to Hill Air Force Base (a friend says they will hire there).

[JohnnyL]

Reading this thread reminds me of when I researched the possibilities of Jesus being married. One of the facts was the Jewish language didn't have a word for bachelor until roughly 900AD. I agree with the church, marry at a reasonable young age and trust in the lord.

If you look at my past you would find a person who could easily justify waiting for maturity and education to be married. Married in the San Diego temple at 22 and divorced at 30. I am told all the time I'm too smart for my own good, iq 132 and I'm a master mechanic at Toyota not a doctor or lawyer. My favorite quote from a coworker is "I know we are technicians but you don't have to speak so technical" I just laughed.

Like I told my 16 yr old daughter recently, "school implies that are ancestors weren't intelligent through teaching that we are getting smarter, that is why we are so technically more advanced then say 2000 years ago." Then I asked her "do you think Jesus was intelligent?" She softly said "yeah" I then said "I think he was a genius, smarter then you and me and he was a carpenter(masonry most likely). He could have been a lawyer or doctor but that wasn't his calling." My point to her was to show that all the lords chosen prophets were intelligent and we today can look up to them and not think "what do they really know!"

That ties into the point of this discussion, if blue collar labor was good enough for the lord then why isn't it good enough for some of us??

So when someone says they need to be prepared I wonder if their definition of prepared is way beyond the scope of the lords definition... Just saying, food for thought....

Yeah, "get an education" =/= "go to college and get a degree"--though it might.

[brianj]

In the 1990s I pursued a computer science degree, expecting that qualification to give me a comfortable income. But employers have been offshoring and importing labor as quickly as they can to suppress wages. I don't know that any career field is safe any longer.

They are looking for civilian computer programmers on bases.

Take a closer look at those jobs; I have. Defense and other government jobs are just about the only places where a programmer can't be outsourced or replaced with an H1-B worker. Unfortunately, almost all the jobs I have seen require candidates to already have a security clearance- which I don't have. The rest of the jobs require either an active clearance or eligibility, and I understand that they get enough candidates with active clearances that I will never get called in for an interview.

I felt forced into the network/ sysadmin role because it can't be outsourced to India, but finding a job in this category can be extremely difficult as employers want very specific qualifications. Ten years of Debian Linux? Sorry, we use Red Hat. Seven years of MS server 2008? Sorry, we want someone with 2+ years of Server 2012.

Are you willing to move to Hill Air Force Base (a friend says they will hire there).

I already applied for a couple of jobs through the USA Jobs website but I haven't heard back. So yes, I am willing to move to that area. Lately I have been looking for a job from Ogden to Spanish Fork.

[Yahtzee]

So when someone says they need to be prepared I wonder if their definition of prepared is way beyond the scope of the lords definition... Just saying, food for thought....

I used to stress because my small house size doesn't allow for a year supply. It simply doesn't. I felt like we weren't being obedient enough. I felt stuck because moving would mean I would need to work full time in spite of personal revelation that I needed to be home with my kids. Lose lose. And I think that's what this thread is about. People are feeling set up to fail. I get it.
So I read and prayed and realized exactly what you said. I needed to change my definition of prepared. I can comfortably fit 6 mo of food for my 6 family members in my home. I also garden and keep chickens to be prepared.
I think we get fixated on a picture of how we think a commandment is supposed to look and it sets us back.

[BackBlast]

Seems Satan is using every tactic in the book to attack the family. Student debt, the idea that the world is overpopulated and the financial costs of raising a family are hindering new families here in Canada. This isn't a unique problem to just Canada as it is happening all over the world now.

This current generation has less money than their parents generation which is making it harder to start a family. A house is 6 times more expensive than the last generation. The stress of being able to afford a family is a reality for many as the cost of living has escalated to a point that as the article explains, having a family is now considered a luxury many can't afford. Families have now become a thing for the rich only.

The church says we can't afford not to have a family but balancing staying out of debt and staying out of poverty is the new reality at least in Canada. We should not have to rely on welfare, be it from the state or the church, to afford a family. The standard of living keeps eroding with no positive change on the horizon.

I have a large family. 7 here, and one on the way. They are all young (oldest is 11). It is not only financially taxing but emotionally and physically taxing.

I have always made this a priority. I worked my way through school. I picked a career that would likely support me comfortably. I looked for a girl that really valued having children.

What I didn't count on was health difficulties. My wife, to her frustration, has been unable to care for our children like she would like. Repeated pregnancies have left her with poor overall health. This has lead to hired help in the form of nannies and cleaners. I have had to do a lot of that stuff myself, but there are limits to how much time off I can reasonably take before I get the evil eye from my employer. I am the sole income for my family. I make good money for a single income. Despite that, we haven't had a real couch in oh, 4 or 5 years now. I have never once purchased a TV. We have always purchased old used cars from reliable lines. I didn't have a cell phone until about 5 years ago because of the expense. I have only most recently accepted assistance of any kind, just a bit to help after our former landlord exercised their non-renewal clause (kicking us out). I was instructed by the Lord to accept it and ask for it, but to also view it like a loan rather than a gift (this is not universal advice, what was given to me). Our children don't think of us as poor, they are happy.

Beyond the financial difficulties there are the... reactions from others. Everyone is universally happy to see you get one child, even two. After that the receptions are less happy. When you pass 5 they start to get quite negative and pointed. Even in the Church. Snide comments like, you know what causes that right? Sometimes good natured but they are still somewhat unkind. This is especially rough on women folk who really yearn for acceptance and who's lives often revolve around family choices.

Through it all, we have had sufficient for our needs. First time we had to hire a nanny, I got a raise to support it nearly simultaneously. Currently I'm sitting on 20k of medical expense related debt. Recently I just got a 11% raise, and I'm seeing the potential for another 10-15% raise possible just around the corner. Which should hopefully be enough clear it up within the year, with some more tightening of the belt. I have had blessing after blessing to see me through. It's not an easy life style, but I testify that the blessings are ready and waiting for those who embark upon it. I believe that the Lord truly cherishes those willing to bring children into this world.

[gclayjr]

BackBlast,

Thank you for your inspirational story. I raised 6 kids. I am watching the struggles of my kids to raise their families, and I am glad that I lived in the generation that I did, because I am not sure how well, I would have dealt with all of the problems including the struggle to provide an adequate income that they have today.

I have often said that it is common for the elder generation to say how tough it was in their day, but I am afraid that the younger generation has many more difficulties providing for the needs of their kids than we did. I'm sure that strengthens your testimony, and maybe you guys having that stronger, surer testimony is what is needed to face that which is coming.

Regards,

George Clay

[Matchmaker]

So when someone says they need to be prepared I wonder if their definition of prepared is way beyond the scope of the lords definition... Just saying, food for thought....

I used to stress because my small house size doesn't allow for a year supply. It simply doesn't. I felt like we weren't being obedient enough. I felt stuck because moving would mean I would need to work full time in spite of personal revelation that I needed to be home with my kids. Lose lose. And I think that's what this thread is about. People are feeling set up to fail. I get it.
So I read and prayed and realized exactly what you said. I needed to change my definition of prepared. I can comfortably fit 6 mo of food for my 6 family members in my home. I also garden and keep chickens to be prepared.
I think we get fixated on a picture of how we think a commandment is supposed to look and it sets us back.

I agree with your comment about "we get fixated on how we think a commandment is supposed to look." I also agree with those who say, "Let's do the best we can with the circumstances and resources we have and trust the Lord with the rest." It's time to get creative and show what we are made out of. One example I learned from something I read: Before I got married and bought a house, I lived in a tiny 400 sq ft apartment. I bought several cases of food and used one stack for an end table in my tiny livingroom. You can put nice fabric over it. Another one went into my bedroom for a similar purpose. I lined the bottom of my bedroom closet with cases of food too. I put cases of bottled water behind my couch. I bought a gallon sized container of powdered organic meals. You could add a scoop or two of the powder to water or juice and have a balanced meal in a minute. The gallon would feed me for 14 days in an emergency.

If a person only has room for a couple of cases of energy bars under their bed, in a time of an emergency they can probably trade some of the energy bars in their ward for soup or canned meat. I have too much soup and canned meat, and I would love a few energy bars.

[BackBlast]

BackBlast,

Thank you for your inspirational story. I raised 6 kids. I am watching the struggles of my kids to raise their families, and I am glad that I lived in the generation that I did, because I am not sure how well, I would have dealt with all of the problems including the struggle to provide an adequate income that they have today.

Nice job

I have always encouraged my wife to look for friends among the older generation because they understand a lot better some of our struggles than almost anyone near our age. That and there's something mellowing and special that comes with age.

I have often said that it is common for the elder generation to say how tough it was in their day, but I am afraid that the younger generation has many more difficulties providing for the needs of their kids than we did. I'm sure that strengthens your testimony, and maybe you guys having that stronger, surer testimony is what is needed to face that which is coming.

Everyone has the set of trials that is most likely to take them from where they are and elevate them to a state where they can accept Christ and be saved. I wouldn't get too caught up in eras or times or sets of trials. Sure, mine has difficulties, but I'm a stubborn person

This is not just an era of great darkness and trial, it is an era of great LIGHT. I thought I was just muddling through life, but more recently I am rather astounded at the blessings being poured out upon me and mine. I wouldn't trade my path for anyone else's.

[brianj]

What I didn't count on was health difficulties. My wife, to her frustration, has been unable to care for our children like she would like. Repeated pregnancies have left her with poor overall health. This has lead to hired help in the form of nannies and cleaners. I have had to do a lot of that stuff myself, but there are limits to how much time off I can reasonably take before I get the evil eye from my employer. I am the sole income for my family. I make good money for a single income. Despite that, we haven't had a real couch in oh, 4 or 5 years now. I have never once purchased a TV. We have always purchased old used cars from reliable lines. I didn't have a cell phone until about 5 years ago because of the expense. I have only most recently accepted assistance of any kind, just a bit to help after our former landlord exercised their non-renewal clause (kicking us out). I was instructed by the Lord to accept it and ask for it, but to also view it like a loan rather than a gift (this is not universal advice, what was given to me). Our children don't think of us as poor, they are happy.

Beyond the financial difficulties there are the... reactions from others. Everyone is universally happy to see you get one child, even two. After that the receptions are less happy. When you pass 5 they start to get quite negative and pointed. Even in the Church. Snide comments like, you know what causes that right? Sometimes good natured but they are still somewhat unkind. This is especially rough on women folk who really yearn for acceptance and who's lives often revolve around family choices.

Through it all, we have had sufficient for our needs. First time we had to hire a nanny, I got a raise to support it nearly simultaneously. Currently I'm sitting on 20k of medical expense related debt. Recently I just got a 11% raise, and I'm seeing the potential for another 10-15% raise possible just around the corner. Which should hopefully be enough clear it up within the year, with some more tightening of the belt. I have had blessing after blessing to see me through. It's not an easy life style, but I testify that the blessings are ready and waiting for those who embark upon it. I believe that the Lord truly cherishes those willing to bring children into this world.

Thank you for sharing. As far as the reactions from others, forget them. It's not their business.

I am pleased that you have had sufficient for your needs, but what about your wife's physical needs? There is a lot of medical research to support waiting two years between birth and the next pregnancy for the mother's health. If you decide to have baby number nine I think it's a great thing, but I would advise you both to spend a lot of time praying about the timing of the next pregnancy.

And thank you for the inspiration. I am enduring a divorce right now, and in awe as I watch what happens when someone breaks their temple covenants. I hope that I will be richly blessed with a loving AND faithful wife sometime in the near future, and I really want to have another child or two - even though I won't become single until one month after my 49th birthday. It's going to take a lot of blessings for me to be able to get through this divorce in a situation that will allow me to provide for another family (she's trying to get a court order for so much child support I would need church assistance to get by) and since I have generally observed very little age difference in spouses within the church it will take more blessings for me to find someone young enough to have another child and willing to consider an old guy like me.
But if that's what the Lord has planned for me, it will happen!

[BackBlast]

Thank you for sharing. As far as the reactions from others, forget them. It's not their business.

I am pleased that you have had sufficient for your needs, but what about your wife's physical needs? There is a lot of medical research to support waiting two years between birth and the next pregnancy for the mother's health. If you decide to have baby number nine I think it's a great thing, but I would advise you both to spend a lot of time praying about the timing of the next pregnancy.

Applying advice #1 to advice #2 ;)

And thank you for the inspiration. I am enduring a divorce right now, and in awe as I watch what happens when someone breaks their temple covenants. I hope that I will be richly blessed with a loving AND faithful wife sometime in the near future, and I really want to have another child or two - even though I won't become single until one month after my 49th birthday. It's going to take a lot of blessings for me to be able to get through this divorce in a situation that will allow me to provide for another family (she's trying to get a court order for so much child support I would need church assistance to get by) and since I have generally observed very little age difference in spouses within the church it will take more blessings for me to find someone young enough to have another child and willing to consider an old guy like me.
But if that's what the Lord has planned for me, it will happen!

There are cultural norms against large age differences, yes. Personally, I've seen many mismatched age marriages work out wonderfully. I don't see any fundamental issues with it. Though marriage, generally, is not an easy thing to do well. When done well there isn't anything in life that is sweeter save a personal relationship with God. I hope you can find what you are looking and hoping for.

[Older/wiser?]

Seems Satan is using every tactic in the book to attack the family. Student debt, the idea that the world is overpopulated and the financial costs of raising a family are hindering new families here in Canada. This isn't a unique problem to just Canada as it is happening all over the world now.

This current generation has less money than their parents generation which is making it harder to start a family. A house is 6 times more expensive than the last generation. The stress of being able to afford a family is a reality for many as the cost of living has escalated to a point that as the article explains, having a family is now considered a luxury many can't afford. Families have now become a thing for the rich only.

The church says we can't afford not to have a family but balancing staying out of debt and staying out of poverty is the new reality at least in Canada. We should not have to rely on welfare, be it from the state or the church, to afford a family. The standard of living keeps eroding with no positive change on the horizon.

I have a large family. 7 here, and one on the way. They are all young (oldest is 11). It is not only financially taxing but emotionally and physically taxing.

I have always made this a priority. I worked my way through school. I picked a career that would likely support me comfortably. I looked for a girl that really valued having children.

What I didn't count on was health difficulties. My wife, to her frustration, has been unable to care for our children like she would like. Repeated pregnancies have left her with poor overall health. This has lead to hired help in the form of nannies and cleaners. I have had to do a lot of that stuff myself, but there are limits to how much time off I can reasonably take before I get the evil eye from my employer. I am the sole income for my family. I make good money for a single income. Despite that, we haven't had a real couch in oh, 4 or 5 years now. I have never once purchased a TV. We have always purchased old used cars from reliable lines. I didn't have a cell phone until about 5 years ago because of the expense. I have only most recently accepted assistance of any kind, just a bit to help after our former landlord exercised their non-renewal clause (kicking us out). I was instructed by the Lord to accept it and ask for it, but to also view it like a loan rather than a gift (this is not universal advice, what was given to me). Our children don't think of us as poor, they are happy.

Beyond the financial difficulties there are the... reactions from others. Everyone is universally happy to see you get one child, even two. After that the receptions are less happy. When you pass 5 they start to get quite negative and pointed. Even in the Church. Snide comments like, you know what causes that right? Sometimes good natured but they are still somewhat unkind. This is especially rough on women folk who really yearn for acceptance and who's lives often revolve around family choices.

Through it all, we have had sufficient for our needs. First time we had to hire a nanny, I got a raise to support it nearly simultaneously. Currently I'm sitting on 20k of medical expense related debt. Recently I just got a 11% raise, and I'm seeing the potential for another 10-15% raise possible just around the corner. Which should hopefully be enough clear it up within the year, with some more tightening of the belt. I have had blessing after blessing to see me through. It's not an easy life style, but I testify that the blessings are ready and waiting for those who embark upon it. I believe that the Lord truly cherishes those willing to bring children into this world.

Thank you for sharing Backblast Sunain and also Yahzee, I am from an older generation, I look around and see people losing faith that shouldn't your sacrifices to do the right thing, raise children in faith give me great hope for the future. I remember our struggles, and they were and are many, it is interesting to see that struggles in some tend to rend the heart and gratitude seems to be the result. That is what I commend you for your expression of gratitude for the blessings you do have. We all need reminders , the Lord never fails us, His answers can come in different packages, but they come.