Advent of the Son of Man already happened

[freedomforall]

Are you a new member of the LDS church?

I have been a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I have a vibrant testimony to bear to you as well....

I have a witness that Joseph Smith, Jr, is a prophet, seer, and revelator and that, through him, Jesus Christ restored the fullness of the gospel to the earth. In fact, God has certified to my very soul that the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ is His only whole truth upon the face of the earth. The doctrines, ordinances, and organizations that Joseph Smith established and restored to this earth are true and necessary components for obtaining celestial glory and establishing Zion. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God does not change His plan partway through the plan. Truth does not change... ever.

I reject the teachings of any individual who preaches against the foundation that Joseph Smith established or contradicts the doctrines that he revealed. I know that anyone attempting to make changes to God’s plan is on the side of Lucifer.

Throughout my life, I have been discovering clarifications of doctrine that are outside of my paradigm. #-o When this happens, it may require me to rethink a lot of other things that I thought I had already figured out and categorized in my mind. And that can feel really uncomfortable. :-ss And it can mean that I am wrong about some things in my life and that I may need to make a minor or major course correction. I may need to repent and throw out some of the traditions of my fathers, so to speak, even if other members of the Church are not doing so themselves.

It is uncomfortable jumping into a whole new way of thinking about doctrines I thought I understood my entire life! Why? Because it is then that I realize that some of my foundational doctrinal understandings -- based on teachings from my parents and others -- are derived from incomplete information or a corrupted version of the truth. And a personal paradigm like that is unacceptable to me because I know that God would not change His plan or His doctrines. I only want the truth!

So according to the instructions in 3 Nephi 27, I am seeking further light and knowledge to help me understand if, how, why, and where some of my foundational doctrinal understandings may be causing me to veer off of the straight and narrow path.

3 Nephi 27:28-29, 33
28 ...And verily I say unto you, whatsoever things ye shall ask the Father in my name shall be given unto you.
29 Therefore, ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for he that asketh, receiveth; and unto him that knocketh, it shall be opened.
33 ...Enter ye in at the strait gate; for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it; but wide is the gate, and broad the way which leads to death, and many there be that travel therein, until the night cometh, wherein no man can work.

I have picked up several crucial nuggets in this forum thread, which is why I value the information shared by JWharton. I am sad that he seemingly plans to discontinue sharing new material thanks to the behavior of just a few disrespectful forum members. This is a tragic loss for all of us.

Delight

Disrespect is found everywhere, even within people ignoring Brian's rules incessantly. Brian's house, Brian's rules. Anyone is free to start their own forum and have anyone wanting to discuss doctrines not appropriate for this forum, may have the best advantage in orating points that otherwise upset people that believe differently.

For example, mingling two sheep together is much better than also mingling a wolf in their midst. What does this cause?

Like-minded individuals have a much better playing field advantage than two totally opposing paradigms coming together causing constant clashing. Especially when one of these people are using peril and condemnation in order to get people's attention. There is a difference between asking "this is what I read and where, what do you think of it?", as opposed to a matter of fact "this is how it will go down, I am here to teach you so pay close attention." type of attitude.

This, you might consider in all your searching for truth, for this is truth...and posters should respect adhering to the forum owners well laid out directives connected with this forum.

There are many here that are well grounded in the gospel of Jesus Christ, having strong testimonies and a willingness to stand up against false doctrine. Should these people leave the forum for the sake of allowing a foreign doctrine to take root and change the whole purpose and point of having it? Already there are forums thriving on precepts of men, right?

Speaking of truth, here is some. This challenge or directive is not easy but necessary.

Mosiah 18:9
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

What does this next verse mean, by interpretation, to you?

2 Nephi 28:26
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

What do you understand concerning these verses coming from D&C 76?

50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—
51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;
53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—
56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60 And they shall overcome all things.
61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

Concerning supposed doctrines that were never placed in the canon of scripture that some people insist thriving on, Bruce R McConkie had this to say:

There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.

SEE: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r- ... -heresies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kitkat]

If you or anyone has sincere questions I have neglected to answer, please draw my attention to such.

Reading your thoughts... a few sincere questions:

1. Would you share what you have done to seek a direct witness from God in regards to Joseph's innocence (or practicing) of polygamy and Jacob chapter 2's true meaning in God's perspective? Has God given you a witness of such? Why or why not? Should we seek a personal witness of polygamy from God in your view, why or why not?

I assume you are pro polygamy per this thread, which is very sincerely concerning but not surprising (irony is so is the LDS church pro polygamy, it seems only Joseph was against it with his brother Hyrum and a very few select others).

2. Also, what do you make of D&C 121 to mean for us today (application - specifically lifting heels against the Lord's annointed - Joseph - in light of accusing him of polygamy exclusively)?

One of the greatest decisions I have learned from the Lord, alluding to the decisions you speak of that separate the saints, that we each must come to, is that of polygamy. I get we are a minority in this, but woah what a dividing line eh?. Can you imagine the implications when the Lord tells you plainly Joseph never practiced nor instituted polygamy? A beautiful game changer witness for sure to have.

Receiving a witness from God of Joseph's innocence for me has opened the door to better understanding the true loving character of God, along with beautiful dreams and visions that require one's first choosing His voice on this matter of polygamy and the abomination it has always been before the eyes of God (hint (Jacob chapter 2): so much an abomination that He lead a branch out of Jerusalem, so they wouldn't continue to make excuses by David's actions, and practice "these abominable things" in the new world)...

[Kitkat]

I reject the teachings of any individual who preaches against the foundation that Joseph Smith established or contradicts the doctrines that he revealed. I know that anyone attempting to make changes to God’s plan is on the side of Lucifer.

So my question is what have you done to ensure yourself that Joseph actually taught polygamy? Did you simply accept the arm of flesh accounts, or have you had God speak to you on the matter giving you a direct personal witness (clear revelation, not just warm fuzzies of His love for all of us)?

I too reject man-teachings, that are more or less than this (Christ's gospel) taught in it's purity by the imperfect but completely innocent of polygamy Joseph Smith. So it concerns me greatly, although understandable due to tradition and opinions of men, when LDS state they accept the foundation Joseph laid of the fullness, when Joseph never laid any foundation for polygamy (something one must go to God to receive a beautiful witness of), and God is willing to show to any who ask in sincerity with an open heart the same.

[jwharton]

It might take me a while before I make a response Kitkat. I'm moving into a new home over the next couple days.

[freedomforall]

I reject the teachings of any individual who preaches against the foundation that Joseph Smith established or contradicts the doctrines that he revealed. I know that anyone attempting to make changes to God’s plan is on the side of Lucifer.

So my question is what have you done to ensure yourself that Joseph actually taught polygamy? Did you simply accept the arm of flesh accounts, or have you had God speak to you on the matter giving you a direct personal witness (clear revelation, not just warm fuzzies of His love for all of us)?

I too reject man-teachings, that are more or less than this (Christ's gospel) taught in it's purity by the imperfect but completely innocent of polygamy Joseph Smith. So it concerns me greatly, although understandable due to tradition and opinions of men, when LDS state they accept the foundation Joseph laid of the fullness, when Joseph never laid any foundation for polygamy (something one must go to God to receive a beautiful witness of), and God is willing to show to any who ask in sincerity with an open heart the same.

Kitkat, you just re-opened the door for a continuance of having foreign doctrine taught here because according to JWharton, Brain told him to cease and desist doing so because his forum is not the place to for it. Thanks you very much.

[freedomforall]

I reject the teachings of any individual who preaches against the foundation that Joseph Smith established or contradicts the doctrines that he revealed. I know that anyone attempting to make changes to God’s plan is on the side of Lucifer.

So my question is what have you done to ensure yourself that Joseph actually taught polygamy? Did you simply accept the arm of flesh accounts, or have you had God speak to you on the matter giving you a direct personal witness (clear revelation, not just warm fuzzies of His love for all of us)?

I too reject man-teachings, that are more or less than this (Christ's gospel) taught in it's purity by the imperfect but completely innocent of polygamy Joseph Smith. So it concerns me greatly, although understandable due to tradition and opinions of men, when LDS state they accept the foundation Joseph laid of the fullness, when Joseph never laid any foundation for polygamy (something one must go to God to receive a beautiful witness of), and God is willing to show to any who ask in sincerity with an open heart the same.

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

Latter-day Saints believe that monogamy—the marriage of one man and one woman—is the Lord’s standing law of marriage.1 In biblical times, the Lord commanded some of His people to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman.2 Some early members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also received and obeyed this commandment given through God’s prophets.

After receiving a revelation commanding him to practice plural marriage, Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration—for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition. Few Latter-day Saints initially welcomed the restoration of a biblical practice entirely foreign to their sensibilities. But many later testified of powerful spiritual experiences that helped them overcome their hesitation and gave them courage to accept this practice.

Although the Lord commanded the adoption—and later the cessation—of plural marriage in the latter days, He did not give exact instructions on how to obey the commandment. Significant social and cultural changes often include misunderstandings and difficulties. Church leaders and members experienced these challenges as they heeded the command to practice plural marriage and again later as they worked to discontinue it after Church President Wilford Woodruff issued an inspired statement known as the Manifesto in 1890, which led to the end of plural marriage in the Church. Through it all, Church leaders and members sought to follow God’s will.

Continued here: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... g&old=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are the words of God of whom does what he wants, when he wants.

Doctrine and Covenants 56:4
4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.

Those people back then that opposed plural marriage were rebellious. Those today insisting its return are, likewise, rebellious. Plain and simple according to God's word.

[Kitkat]

I reject the teachings of any individual who preaches against the foundation that Joseph Smith established or contradicts the doctrines that he revealed. I know that anyone attempting to make changes to God’s plan is on the side of Lucifer.

So my question is what have you done to ensure yourself that Joseph actually taught polygamy? Did you simply accept the arm of flesh accounts, or have you had God speak to you on the matter giving you a direct personal witness (clear revelation, not just warm fuzzies of His love for all of us)?

I too reject man-teachings, that are more or less than this (Christ's gospel) taught in it's purity by the imperfect but completely innocent of polygamy Joseph Smith. So it concerns me greatly, although understandable due to tradition and opinions of men, when LDS state they accept the foundation Joseph laid of the fullness, when Joseph never laid any foundation for polygamy (something one must go to God to receive a beautiful witness of), and God is willing to show to any who ask in sincerity with an open heart the same.

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

Latter-day Saints believe that monogamy—the marriage of one man and one woman—is the Lord’s standing law of marriage.1 In biblical times, the Lord commanded some of His people to practice plural marriage—the marriage of one man and more than one woman.2 Some early members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also received and obeyed this commandment given through God’s prophets.

After receiving a revelation commanding him to practice plural marriage, Joseph Smith married multiple wives and introduced the practice to close associates. This principle was among the most challenging aspects of the Restoration—for Joseph personally and for other Church members. Plural marriage tested faith and provoked controversy and opposition. Few Latter-day Saints initially welcomed the restoration of a biblical practice entirely foreign to their sensibilities. But many later testified of powerful spiritual experiences that helped them overcome their hesitation and gave them courage to accept this practice.

Although the Lord commanded the adoption—and later the cessation—of plural marriage in the latter days, He did not give exact instructions on how to obey the commandment. Significant social and cultural changes often include misunderstandings and difficulties. Church leaders and members experienced these challenges as they heeded the command to practice plural marriage and again later as they worked to discontinue it after Church President Wilford Woodruff issued an inspired statement known as the Manifesto in 1890, which led to the end of plural marriage in the Church. Through it all, Church leaders and members sought to follow God’s will.

Continued here: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... g&old=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are the words of God of whom does what he wants, when he wants.

Doctrine and Covenants 56:4
4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.

Those people back then that opposed plural marriage were rebellious. Those today insisting its return are, likewise, rebellious. Plain and simple according to God's word.

Exactly my point. Did you ask God or rely on man's wisdom. Had Joseph Smith relied on the quotes from the scholars of his day, we'd have no first vision. The point is ask God, gain a personal witness from him on the matter.