Obama Leaves

[Sunain]

Perhaps instead of making predictions, just continue posting information and your opinion at the time on the subject. There is nothing wrong about being informed and listening to others insight and thoughts on a subject.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

O:-)

Perhaps instead of making predictions, just continue posting information and your opinion at the time on the subject. There is nothing wrong about being informed and listening to others insight and thoughts on a subject.

Good idea. I don't want you to leave kirtland but please stop with the predictions and exclamation of having some new info from an anonymous source.

[MR. T]

YES his timing is wrong, so what, I could say the exact same thing about modern day prophets?

If you want to but please include your sources

How about Bruce R. Prophet, Seer and Revelator "the negroes will not receive the priesthood in this lifetime" Mormon Doctrine

YES his timing was wrong, so what! Did that make him without credibility in your mind?

[skmo]

...but I would prefer that people share what they believe than be shamed into silence.

I understand this comment was made about one person in particular, my comments are directed at a whole group, not an individual.

We are told to seek after things which are virtuous, lovely, of good report or praiseworthy. In this I am fine. The problem arises for me when people start sharing their "dreams" or "visions" or personal visitations sent to them from God as being of value and worth as a divine message to all people. Please understand: I DO NOT SAY GOD DOESN'T SEND VISIONS OR OTHER MESSAGES TO PEOPLE TODAY. My wife and I have both had these experiences. She shared them with me, I shared them with her. I do not deny God communicates with us.

I ABSOLUTELY state my believe God WILL NOT send messages to random individuals to be shared with humanity in an openly public fashion. I believe when people do this they are being dishonest for selfish purposes or for more nefarious reasons.

Why am I so absolutist on this? Because there are weak-minded people out there always looking for a "quick fix" to the problems in their lives, people not willing to to the work needed to follow the Plan of Salvation. If I shared my experience of a vision with someone else to give them the message God gave to me, that person is going to be likely to want to listen to others who have these experiences. Inevitably they're going to run into a real sham artist whose aim is to lead people away from God, which is what I believe many of the public "vision sharing" people are. Even when people proclaim "I offer this vision in support of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" I believe it's ultimately a lie for a bait and switch.

Gos gave us Scriptures, He has given us living prophets, and He gives us personal revelation. Use these. Follow and pray about them. Tell others trying to lead you somewhere to go to hell. They're already on their way, no need for you to accompany them.

[Joel]

YES his timing is wrong, so what, I could say the exact same thing about modern day prophets?

If you want to but please include your sources

How about Bruce R. Prophet, Seer and Revelator "the negroes will not receive the priesthood in this lifetime" Mormon Doctrine

YES his timing was wrong, so what! Did that make him without credibility in your mind?

Not really ....Keep going if you like to

[skmo]

There are soooooooo many forum members that bring only opinion and doubt to every interesting topic, why be one of them?

This is a forum to lead people to the truth about how liberty, freedom, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are related. Spreading mistakes and half-truths is not conducive to finding enlightenment, whether it's interesting or not.

The Still, Small Voice is what whispers the powerful message of God. The visions and glories of people deluded at best and possibly deceiving and more are best left alone.

[Original_Intent]

I'll weigh in briefly. I thought things were going to be much worse than they were. I was one who felt strongly that things were lining up for the GAS prophecy to be fulfilled. However, having lived a while and been wrong plenty of times, I try to shy away from making it sound like I am making a declaration or daring people to "come talk to me in 6 months if I am wrong". I make it clear that first, it is my opinion, and 2nd it may not be that I expect it will happen, but rather things seem to be lining up that match conditions, and therefore I think there is a higher probability. I see posts like the OPS and there are a few others that I feel is kind of the National Enquirer version - I might agree substantially with what is being said, but it is delivered in such an over-the-top attention seeking way. Sometimes the topic subject is intentionally "click bait". I mean I also try to word my topics in a way to get people to read them if I think it is important. All that said, I think kirtland r.m. is a good guy. I dislike threads such as those calling on forum members to "fess up!" that they were wrong, etc. There is zero in those threads that is uplifting, it is merely a forum member wanting to rub other forum members noses in the fact of their wrongness.

Anyway, I feel there are forum members who definitely go overboard on the sensationalism. If they are sincere but wrong, then time will teach them to take a more balanced approach. I certainly think it is fair if someone is so sure of things that they are daring others to "get back with me if the internet is still working" - it's certainly fair to follow up with them and maybe do a post-mortem (lovingly).

I will also say, we aren't out of the woods in my opinion, not by a country mile. Clearly regarding GAS for the very foreseeable future (years, decades?) at the bare minimum it is a tabled issue. I know there are some that feel that once and for all this shows it to be false. I disagree, and feel that in many ways those that are gleefully bragging that " I was right, you were wrong!" are far from the true path that Christ would have us travel. Although saying they are living in the Great and Spacious Building" may be going to far, I also can not picture those partaking of the fruit of the tree behaving in such a way. I've been guilty of the same thing and worse, I am very very far from perfect, I am just raising what I feel is an important consideration.

edit: re-reading this I see that I started saying I would weigh in "briefly". I was wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[skmo]

....
edit: re-reading this I see that I started saying I would weigh in "briefly". I was wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I love that song!

[rewcox]

I'll weigh in briefly. I thought things were going to be much worse than they were. I was one who felt strongly that things were lining up for the GAS prophecy to be fulfilled. However, having lived a while and been wrong plenty of times, I try to shy away from making it sound like I am making a declaration or daring people to "come talk to me in 6 months if I am wrong". I make it clear that first, it is my opinion, and 2nd it may not be that I expect it will happen, but rather things seem to be lining up that match conditions, and therefore I think there is a higher probability. I see posts like the OPS and there are a few others that I feel is kind of the National Enquirer version - I might agree substantially with what is being said, but it is delivered in such an over-the-top attention seeking way. Sometimes the topic subject is intentionally "click bait". I mean I also try to word my topics in a way to get people to read them if I think it is important. All that said, I think kirtland r.m. is a good guy. I dislike threads such as those calling on forum members to "fess up!" that they were wrong, etc. There is zero in those threads that is uplifting, it is merely a forum member wanting to rub other forum members noses in the fact of their wrongness.

Anyway, I feel there are forum members who definitely go overboard on the sensationalism. If they are sincere but wrong, then time will teach them to take a more balanced approach. I certainly think it is fair if someone is so sure of things that they are daring others to "get back with me if the internet is still working" - it's certainly fair to follow up with them and maybe do a post-mortem (lovingly).

I will also say, we aren't out of the woods in my opinion, not by a country mile. Clearly regarding GAS for the very foreseeable future (years, decades?) at the bare minimum it is a tabled issue. I know there are some that feel that once and for all this shows it to be false. I disagree, and feel that in many ways those that are gleefully bragging that " I was right, you were wrong!" are far from the true path that Christ would have us travel. Although saying they are living in the Great and Spacious Building" may be going to far, I also can not picture those partaking of the fruit of the tree behaving in such a way. I've been guilty of the same thing and worse, I am very very far from perfect, I am just raising what I feel is an important consideration.

edit: re-reading this I see that I started saying I would weigh in "briefly". I was wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

You talkin to me?

You talkin to me?

Kirtland should fess up and apologize. Not just wrong, 95% wrong.

Instead of spam threading, he should use 1 or 2 threads and put his wrong sensational posts in them.

[DesertWonderer]

Some of you are real jerks on here. This is a fellow member of the church we are talking about. Would you really feel comfortable saying these things about Kirtland R.M. if the Savior were sitting next to you as you type. He admitted he was wrong, now let him be. For crying out loud, we are all brothers and sisters of our Heavenly Father, start acting like it. I am disgusted with the tone of many on this thread and this website. Kirtland never calls you all names, he just posts his predictions and feeling about things. WE ARE ALL WRONG FROM TIME TO TIME!

He called me a liar on live radio. Funny thing was EVERYTHING that he called me a liar for was factual. Even funnier than that is that EVERYTHING that he has said that would happen has NOT. You tell me what label would you apply to him?

Personally I pity him and the people he has negatively influenced and fear for his grip on reality. I feel no ill will toward him. May God bless him--actually I"ve prayed that he can be reached and helped. The same goes for JR.

[brianj]

Gos gave us Scriptures, He has given us living prophets, and He gives us personal revelation. Use these. Follow and pray about them. Tell others trying to lead you somewhere to go to hell. They're already on their way, no need for you to accompany them.

Telling someone to go to hell is provoking and offensive. It is contrary to the principles of persuasion, long suffering, gentleness and meekness, and love unfeigned.

When you sharply reprove Kirtland, do you do so because you were moved upon by the Holy Ghost? Afterward to you show an increase of love toward him, or do you show any love at all, so he does not esteem you to be his enemy?

I am going to be blunt and honest here. I don't love skmo or Kirtland, or even see them or others who post here as people. When I look at what is written, all I see are ideas to contemplate and maybe respond to, but I don't really see the people in my mind and therefore I don't lovingly consider the people I am responding to. And as I contemplate this fact, I feel guilty for it. Love is critical for all of us, and we should even be loving in our expression of disagreement. I will work on that last concept.

[brianj]

....
edit: re-reading this I see that I started saying I would weigh in "briefly". I was wrong. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I love that song!

It's the Buddhist In you, it's the Christian in me,
It's the Muslim in him, she's Mormon ain't she?

It's nice to know that I'm not the only Parrothead in the group!

[kirtland r.m.]

No, it didn't get "half as bad", you were more like 95% wrong. You've lost all credibility (if you even had any to begin with) when it comes to predictions and prophecies of future events.

I would say it got about half as bad as I thought it would.

Some said that, and I posted some quotes not long ago on the subject, I didn't say that though. As we get closer to the fall U.S. Presidential Election up until Christmas, I will go on record right here and now as saying it is going to hit the fan in a way that almost all Americans and others are going to not believe their eyes. I say that now, and check back with me then if the internet is working. Line up and tell me that I was wrong, and I will admit that. Thing is, I won't be wrong.

Over 200 arrested in D.C. alone for rioting, millions of man haters marching across the u.s. today http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz, one third of Democrat congress members not attending Inauguration. You are just plain wrong!!! I'll make you a deal, I will stop posting for a while and we will see how things unfold. This is getting very ugly and those who ignore these events or minimize them are not helping themselves.

Most of the things I post about as far as future events are posted with scripture and G.A. quotes to back them up. O. leaving office was not one of those, but was a feeling held by many Christians because of the evil of that man and his constant attacking of Christians and apologies for America, as well as sacking over 200 top military officers, buying up 2,000,000 rounds of ammo. for homeland security so he said, setting up with Loretta Lynch the ability of U.N. troops to come into the U.S. to "quell civil disturbances" ect.. His and the true feelings of his wife slipped out from time to time in comments, as well as his bazaar actions showing that he truly had a chip on his shoulder towards white people, even afer his Islamic father abandoned him, he still had a fixation on Islam and a distrust of their enemies. That is us.

[setyourselffree]

No, it didn't get "half as bad", you were more like 95% wrong. You've lost all credibility (if you even had any to begin with) when it comes to predictions and prophecies of future events.

I would say it got about half as bad as I thought it would.

Some said that, and I posted some quotes not long ago on the subject, I didn't say that though. As we get closer to the fall U.S. Presidential Election up until Christmas, I will go on record right here and now as saying it is going to hit the fan in a way that almost all Americans and others are going to not believe their eyes. I say that now, and check back with me then if the internet is working. Line up and tell me that I was wrong, and I will admit that. Thing is, I won't be wrong.

Over 200 arrested in D.C. alone for rioting, millions of man haters marching across the u.s. today http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz, one third of Democrat congress members not attending Inauguration. You are just plain wrong!!! I'll make you a deal, I will stop posting for a while and we will see how things unfold. This is getting very ugly and those who ignore these events or minimize them are not helping themselves.

Most of the things I post about as far as future events are posted with scripture and G.A. quotes to back them up. O. leaving office was not one of those, but was a feeling held by many Christians because of the evil of that man and his constant attacking of Christians and apologies for America, as well as sacking over 200 top military officers, buying up 2,000,000 rounds of ammo. for homeland security so he said, setting up with Loretta Lynch the ability of U.N. troops to come into the U.S. to "quell civil disturbances" ect.. His and the true feelings of his wife slipped out from time to time in comments, as well as his bazaar actions showing that he truly had a chip on his shoulder towards white people, even afer his Islamic father abandoned him, he still had a fixation on Islam and a distrust of their enemies. That is us.

So GAS wasn't a Prophet?

[GrandMasterB]

No, it didn't get "half as bad", you were more like 95% wrong. You've lost all credibility (if you even had any to begin with) when it comes to predictions and prophecies of future events.

I would say it got about half as bad as I thought it would.

Some said that, and I posted some quotes not long ago on the subject, I didn't say that though. As we get closer to the fall U.S. Presidential Election up until Christmas, I will go on record right here and now as saying it is going to hit the fan in a way that almost all Americans and others are going to not believe their eyes. I say that now, and check back with me then if the internet is working. Line up and tell me that I was wrong, and I will admit that. Thing is, I won't be wrong.

Over 200 arrested in D.C. alone for rioting, millions of man haters marching across the u.s. today http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz, one third of Democrat congress members not attending Inauguration. You are just plain wrong!!! I'll make you a deal, I will stop posting for a while and we will see how things unfold. This is getting very ugly and those who ignore these events or minimize them are not helping themselves.

Most of the things I post about as far as future events are posted with scripture and G.A. quotes to back them up. O. leaving office was not one of those, but was a feeling held by many Christians because of the evil of that man and his constant attacking of Christians and apologies for America, as well as sacking over 200 top military officers, buying up 2,000,000 rounds of ammo. for homeland security so he said, setting up with Loretta Lynch the ability of U.N. troops to come into the U.S. to "quell civil disturbances" ect.. His and the true feelings of his wife slipped out from time to time in comments, as well as his bazaar actions showing that he truly had a chip on his shoulder towards white people, even afer his Islamic father abandoned him, he still had a fixation on Islam and a distrust of their enemies. That is us.

What I would really like to know is if Michelle was really a man afterall.

[Silver]

What I would really like to know is if Michelle was really a man afterall.

https://successstory.com/photos/people/ ... nson-obama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GrandMasterB]

What I would really like to know is if Michelle was really a man afterall.

https://successstory.com/photos/people/ ... nson-obama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well that settles it. She is a man and Obama therefore must be gay.

[kfb]

I didn't think he would, and there where plenty of signals that he was preparing for something different. After the woman's march, and other mayhem during the weekend I will write more on this thread. I would say it got about half as bad as I thought it would. That's still pretty bad. I have some interesting things to post, that are happening this week.

Happening this week? Great another failed prediction.

[mirkwood]

Still waiting for you to admit all the things you've been wrong on. Can you do it? Can you own your errors? :-w

[skmo]

Telling someone to go to hell is provoking and offensive. It is contrary to the principles of persuasion, long suffering, gentleness and meekness, and love unfeigned.

You may choose to be offended by it if you wish. I believe it to be a perfectly normal response when I suspect someone is trying to deceive me or my family for whatever their reasons may be. I'm not trying to be offensive (believe me, I can say all manner of things so offensive I'd upset drunken sailors) but I am making a statement about how dispassionately I disapprove of people leading others away.

Provoking? It must take a LOT less to provoke you than it does me.

When you sharply reprove Kirtland, do you do so because you were moved upon by the Holy Ghost? Afterward to you show an increase of love toward him, or do you show any love at all, so he does not esteem you to be his enemy?

Did you miss my first sentence?

I understand this comment was made about one person in particular, my comments are directed at a whole group, not an individual.

Generally speaking, I try to choose my words carefully so people have a clear understanding of what I'm trying to say. I actually meant it when I said I'm NOT aiming my comments at anyone person. The reason for this is that I don't want people to think I'm attacking them directly (I'll admit, it's possible for an individual to get under my skin enough that I attack them directly with my words, but I try to avoid it if I can.) What I'm opposed to is a particular behavior.

I'm adamant in my belief that latter day saints should not give credence to people sharing their own personal dreams and visions. I believe the overwhelming majority of these people who are doing so are doing it for personal gain, be it sales of a product, a desire to gain followers and their adoration, or in service of someone deliberately leading people away from God.

I am going to be blunt and honest here.

That's usually best with me. I certainly welcome criticism, as I know I have a long way to go. However, no matter haw far that distance is you may assured I will also be blunt, and I'll always be honest, even if it steps on toes. I'm careful on these boards not to be profane (something I don't always do in the world) but I'll certainly be brutally honest. Well, I honestly think most people sharing personal dreams and visions are leading people to hell, and I won't hesitate to tell them to go there alone, without me or those few left in this world I love.

[skmo]

So GAS wasn't a Prophet?

President Smith was certainly an ordained prophet. However, I HIGHLY doubt the "prophecy" which has been spread in his name. In another topic, someone asked if it was too early to dismiss the GAS prophecy. My reply was, and still is:

It isn't too soon to discount it today. It wasn't too soon last week. It wasn't too soon before the election. It wasn't too soon before O'buffoon got himself elected back in '12 or even '08. It wasn't too soon when Reagan was elected, whether you're talking about him being elected President, Governor, or President of SAG.

It likely wouldn't have been too soon the day after it was ever first recorded, because had the person who wrote it down showed it to President Smith to be sure the words were written correctly, I believe President Smith's words would have been "How drunk were you that night?"

[brianj]

Telling someone to go to hell is provoking and offensive. It is contrary to the principles of persuasion, long suffering, gentleness and meekness, and love unfeigned.

You may choose to be offended by it if you wish. I believe it to be a perfectly normal response when I suspect someone is trying to deceive me or my family for whatever their reasons may be. I'm not trying to be offensive (believe me, I can say all manner of things so offensive I'd upset drunken sailors) but I am making a statement about how dispassionately I disapprove of people leading others away.

Provoking? It must take a LOT less to provoke you than it does me.

When you sharply reprove Kirtland, do you do so because you were moved upon by the Holy Ghost? Afterward to you show an increase of love toward him, or do you show any love at all, so he does not esteem you to be his enemy?

Did you miss my first sentence?

I understand this comment was made about one person in particular, my comments are directed at a whole group, not an individual.

Generally speaking, I try to choose my words carefully so people have a clear understanding of what I'm trying to say. I actually meant it when I said I'm NOT aiming my comments at anyone person. The reason for this is that I don't want people to think I'm attacking them directly (I'll admit, it's possible for an individual to get under my skin enough that I attack them directly with my words, but I try to avoid it if I can.) What I'm opposed to is a particular behavior.

I'm adamant in my belief that latter day saints should not give credence to people sharing their own personal dreams and visions. I believe the overwhelming majority of these people who are doing so are doing it for personal gain, be it sales of a product, a desire to gain followers and their adoration, or in service of someone deliberately leading people away from God.

I am going to be blunt and honest here.

That's usually best with me. I certainly welcome criticism, as I know I have a long way to go. However, no matter haw far that distance is you may assured I will also be blunt, and I'll always be honest, even if it steps on toes. I'm careful on these boards not to be profane (something I don't always do in the world) but I'll certainly be brutally honest. Well, I honestly think most people sharing personal dreams and visions are leading people to hell, and I won't hesitate to tell them to go there alone, without me or those few left in this world I love.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. For what it's worth, I am not easily offended - though I can be provoked very easily when in a bad mood! However, I know a lot of people who are easily offended and can be provoked far more easily than me. And there are far more diplomatic methods to express disagreement than telling someone to go to hell. It has been said that a diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell and leave you looking forward to the journey. That's what I believe we should all strive for, and what I strive for even though I fall so short!

[skmo]

That's what I believe we should all strive for, and what I strive for even though I fall so short!

You think YOU fall short? I fell all the way into excommunication! Talk about a long climb up after a fall...

And there are far more diplomatic methods to express disagreement than telling someone to go to hell. It has been said that a diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell and leave you looking forward to the journey.

I've mostly stopped trying to be diplomatic. I recognize your words about lovingly considering people are correct and important, and your question about being moved by the Holy Ghost made me think about my own situation. As an excommunicate (yes, that word can be used as a noun) I don't get the privilege of having the Holy Ghost with me a lot, and I have trouble finding love for my fellow man even when I do.

Some time ago I was betrayed by the people I loved most in the world and stabbed in the back by one. Having dealt with anger issues all of my life I suddenly found myself struggling mightily to avoid unleashing a lot of stuff I've bottled up, and I still struggle to this day. I don't expect to find a great deal of love for my fellow man (although I still love most of my students - I don't think my stewardship over them will ever end in this life) and I don't know if I'll find peace in my heart before I'm finished with this world. I won't give up trying, but I kind of feel like I'm Sisyphus, and that rock is heavy.

[brianj]

That's what I believe we should all strive for, and what I strive for even though I fall so short!

You think YOU fall short? I fell all the way into excommunication! Talk about a long climb up after a fall...

And there are far more diplomatic methods to express disagreement than telling someone to go to hell. It has been said that a diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell and leave you looking forward to the journey.

I've mostly stopped trying to be diplomatic. I recognize your words about lovingly considering people are correct and important, and your question about being moved by the Holy Ghost made me think about my own situation. As an excommunicate (yes, that word can be used as a noun) I don't get the privilege of having the Holy Ghost with me a lot, and I have trouble finding love for my fellow man even when I do.

Some time ago I was betrayed by the people I loved most in the world and stabbed in the back by one. Having dealt with anger issues all of my life I suddenly found myself struggling mightily to avoid unleashing a lot of stuff I've bottled up, and I still struggle to this day. I don't expect to find a great deal of love for my fellow man (although I still love most of my students - I don't think my stewardship over them will ever end in this life) and I don't know if I'll find peace in my heart before I'm finished with this world. I won't give up trying, but I kind of feel like I'm Sisyphus, and that rock is heavy.

I am sincerely impressed by your efforts to climb up after your fall. I recall that, after he was rebaptized, Hyrum Smith said that only about 1% of people who are excommunicated are baptized. Most of those who try eventually give up. So you have earned a great deal of respect by trying to climb that hill.

Regarding anger, have you considered or tried counseling? I'm enduring a divorce right now, I never violated my covenants even though I desperately wanted to do so because I desperately wanted both emotional support and affection, but she let her antagonistic side get the best of her. I've had to deal with a lot of anger, among other emotions, and my Bishop referred me to LDS Family Services. I don't think my counselor has given me any advice that helped at all, but as I answer her questions I have come to terms with a lot of the issues I am dealing with. Though she can't diagnose my wife without spending time with her, she has said that my descriptions lead her to believe a certain diagnosis is accurate. That information has helped me to accept what the almost ex is doing and has done without so much resentment.

[EmmaLee]

...after he was rebaptized, Hyrum Smith said...

Just so no one confuses this Hyrum Smith ^^ with the more well-known Hyrum Smith (Joseph's brother, who died with him).

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/5950 ... -fold.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;