"The Kolob Theorem"

[brianj]

How does this square with the notion that there is a super black hole at the center of every galaxy? Wouldn't a black hole be a better candidate for outer darkness?

Black holes are made up and there is zero evidence that they exist. Gravity alone cannot hold everything together mathematically so the atheists made them up along with dark matter. How convenient that by their nature you can't see these blackhokes or dark matter but we are supposed to believe they are there. Maybe we should start calling black holes, the Gods of science.

Actually there is a lot of observed evidence of the existence of black holes. True, there was no evidence of black holes when Einstein published his General Theory of Relativity, but since then a lot of evidence of the existence of black holes has been observed. Black hole theory states that they could not be directly observed, since they have a gravitational field so strong that light cannot escape, but there are plenty of theorized aspects of black holes that are observable. We can see evidence of unseen objects with massive weight at the center of several galaxies including our own. We can observe objects close to these gravitational sources orbiting them at a velocity that currently are only explainable through the presence of a black hole, and we can see the gravitational lens effect of black holes.

I once heard someone hypothesize that stars are celestialized worlds. I discount this idea. How would you explain sun spots? Variable stars? Nova and supernova? I do not believe that Heavenly Father lives in a location that could be observed from here. We have a prophecy that at some point the heavens will roll up like a scroll. I believe that describes this plant being transported from where it currently exists to where it will be during and after the millennium.

[inho]

I once heard someone hypothesize that stars are celestialized worlds. I discount this idea.

Joseph Fielding Smith said it in Doctrines of Salvation vol. 1:

It is my opinion that the great stars that we see, including our sun, are celestial worlds; at least worlds that have passed on to their exaltation or other final resurrected status. This is in conflict, of course, with the teachings of scientific men, who declare that the sun is losing its energy and gradually cooling off and will eventually be a dead world. I do not believe the Lord has any such thing in his plan. The Lord lives in "everlasting burnings" we are informed. President Brigham Young has said that this earth when it is celestialized will shine like the sun, and why not?

James E. Talmage disagrees. This is from his book Articles of Faith (emphasis mine):

The astronomer, studying the varied conditions of other worlds, may seek by analogy to learn of the probable fate of our own. Gazing into space with greatly augmented vision, he sees, within the system to which the earth belongs, spheres exhibiting a great range of development—some in their formative stage, unfit for the abode of beings constituted as are we; others in a state more nearly resembling that of the earth; and yet others that appear old and lifeless. Of the vast systems beyond the comparatively small company under control of our own sun he knows little beyond the fact of their existence. But nowhere has he discovered a celestialized world; and mortal eye could not discern such an orb even if it were within the limits of unaided or telescopic vision as determined by distance alone. We may readily believe in the existence of worlds other than those of structure so gross as to be visible to our dull eyes

[brianj]

I once heard someone hypothesize that stars are celestialized worlds. I discount this idea.

Joseph Fielding Smith said it in Doctrines of Salvation vol. 1:

It is my opinion that the great stars that we see, including our sun, are celestial worlds; at least worlds that have passed on to their exaltation or other final resurrected status. This is in conflict, of course, with the teachings of scientific men, who declare that the sun is losing its energy and gradually cooling off and will eventually be a dead world. I do not believe the Lord has any such thing in his plan. The Lord lives in "everlasting burnings" we are informed. President Brigham Young has said that this earth when it is celestialized will shine like the sun, and why not?

James E. Talmage disagrees. This is from his book Articles of Faith (emphasis mine):

The astronomer, studying the varied conditions of other worlds, may seek by analogy to learn of the probable fate of our own. Gazing into space with greatly augmented vision, he sees, within the system to which the earth belongs, spheres exhibiting a great range of development—some in their formative stage, unfit for the abode of beings constituted as are we; others in a state more nearly resembling that of the earth; and yet others that appear old and lifeless. Of the vast systems beyond the comparatively small company under control of our own sun he knows little beyond the fact of their existence. But nowhere has he discovered a celestialized world; and mortal eye could not discern such an orb even if it were within the limits of unaided or telescopic vision as determined by distance alone. We may readily believe in the existence of worlds other than those of structure so gross as to be visible to our dull eyes

Thank you for sharing these quotes. I have to compliment Joseph Fielding Smith for prefacing his comment by saying that it is his opinion.

The idea that the Sun is a celestial world contradicts the teaching that this world was formed near where God dwells but moved away, fell in a literal sense, to its present location with the fall of Adam.

[Alaris]

I once heard someone hypothesize that stars are celestialized worlds. I discount this idea.

Joseph Fielding Smith said it in Doctrines of Salvation vol. 1:

It is my opinion that the great stars that we see, including our sun, are celestial worlds; at least worlds that have passed on to their exaltation or other final resurrected status. This is in conflict, of course, with the teachings of scientific men, who declare that the sun is losing its energy and gradually cooling off and will eventually be a dead world. I do not believe the Lord has any such thing in his plan. The Lord lives in "everlasting burnings" we are informed. President Brigham Young has said that this earth when it is celestialized will shine like the sun, and why not?

James E. Talmage disagrees. This is from his book Articles of Faith (emphasis mine):

The astronomer, studying the varied conditions of other worlds, may seek by analogy to learn of the probable fate of our own. Gazing into space with greatly augmented vision, he sees, within the system to which the earth belongs, spheres exhibiting a great range of development—some in their formative stage, unfit for the abode of beings constituted as are we; others in a state more nearly resembling that of the earth; and yet others that appear old and lifeless. Of the vast systems beyond the comparatively small company under control of our own sun he knows little beyond the fact of their existence. But nowhere has he discovered a celestialized world; and mortal eye could not discern such an orb even if it were within the limits of unaided or telescopic vision as determined by distance alone. We may readily believe in the existence of worlds other than those of structure so gross as to be visible to our dull eyes

Thank you for sharing these quotes. I have to compliment Joseph Fielding Smith for prefacing his comment by saying that it is his opinion.

The idea that the Sun is a celestial world contradicts the teaching that this world was formed near where God dwells but moved away, fell in a literal sense, to its present location with the fall of Adam.

Abraham 3: 13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

I have understood that the sun is a symbol of the Son - we receive His light and by His light we live. I have even understood that the power of the sun comes from the Son so that the symbol is also literal. However, I never thought of the sun as a "celestial world." That's very interesting. According to the Abraham verses above, it sounds like stars are of the same order as Kolob, which does add weight to this concept. The fact that if the earth were any closer to the sun would burn us all up is also parallel to how Moses had to be transfigured to withstand God's presence. Wouldn't be interesting if the sun were actually a planet whereupon celestial beings dwell?

[inho]

I have understood that the sun is a symbol of the Son - we receive His light and by His light we live. I have even understood that the power of the sun comes from the Son so that the symbol is also literal. However, I never thought of the sun as a "celestial world." That's very interesting. According to the Abraham verses above, it sounds like stars are of the same order as Kolob, which does add weight to this concept. The fact that if the earth were any closer to the sun would burn us all up is also parallel to how Moses had to be transfigured to withstand God's presence. Wouldn't be interesting if the sun were actually a planet whereupon celestial beings dwell?

BY thought that the Sun was inhabited:

Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed, “the man in the moon,” and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized.

(JoD 13:271)

I think there is a quote from Hyrum Smith that says something similar (in George Laub's Nauvoo journal?).

Orson Pratt didn't think that the Sun is fully celestialized:

Some may inquire, “Do you think the sun is a glorified world?” Yes, in one sense. It is not yet fully glorified, redeemed, clothed with celestial power, and crowned with the presence of the Father in all the fullness and beauty of a celestial mansion, because it is still subject to change more or less. If it were fully glorified; if it had passed through its temporal existence and had been redeemed, glorified, and made celestial, and had become the eternal abiding place of celestial and glorified beings, it would be far more glorious than our eyes could behold, the eyes of mortality could not endure the light thereof.

(JoD 14:236)

so will the earth radiate its light, and shine forth in celestial splendor. I will not say as the splendor of our sun, for it is not a celestial body. Although the light of the sun is very glorious, it will not begin to compare with that of this earth, when it becomes celestial and eternal and is lightened by the presence of God the Father.

(JoD 19:280)

I don't understand the first part of Abr. 3 to be literal. I think Abraham was using the understanding of his time as a metaphor. The key is the verse 18 which says that as you see order in heaven, so it was among the premortal spirits.