Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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AI2.0
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Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by AI2.0 »

Many are looking for this prophecy to be fulfilled in the next few weeks, but IMO, it's not going to happen. I say this because too many conditions described in the account are not in place at this time;

From David Horne's account:
" It began at a time when the Soviet Union's military might dwarfed that of the United States, and we, that is the United States, would have missiles that carried an atomic bomb in Europe."
The Soviet Union no longer exists, for one thing. And Russia's military might does not dwarf the United states' might at this time. I don't know if we have missiles that carry atomic bombs in Europe, do any of you know if we do?
"I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began.” He also said that we would have big missiles in deep holes he described like grain silos which the Soviets would try to destroy by their own missiles. They would hit military installations and some cities also. He said that the president at that time would be of Greek extraction."
the words, 'and then the war began' means that the war should have begun when we withdraw missiles. When did we do that? I think we might have done some dismantling, but it was years ago. This says that the war begins while the 'greek' president is in place. Horne later changed this to 'non european ancestry' and that's Obama, and there's only a couple of weeks left in his presidency.
" He continued that the U.S. would be bound by numerous entangling alliances and would take away weapons owned by the people".
Yes, we have entangling alliances, but we've had those for decades. No one has taken our weapons away.
"The idea that the USSR would dwarf the US's military might was contrary to any reasonable expectation, but today it is exactly true. The Soviet‟s military might is awesome. Nearly all their population including peasant farmers serve in their reserves and may become part of their army in time of war. They have amassed a year's supply of food (including U.S. grain) so they will not have to farm the first year of any war. They have about five times as many fighter and several times as many modern bomber aircraft as we do. They are well made, effective aircraft with well trained pilots and crews. Their infantry‟s weapons and logistics preparations are staggering. Thus, two elements of Pres. Smith's vision were exactly correct; the USSR became our enemy, and their military might dwarfs our own."
These statements by Horne were made before the break up of the Soviet Union and don't describe it as it is now. It's one of the reasons Putin is trying to rebuild the old Soviet Empire, to strengthen them to what they were at one time.

And for any wondering when David Horne wrote this account, it was in the late 1980's, so no, he did not write it in his journal when he was young and neither did anyone else who he claimed was there to hear Pres. Smith share this apocalyptic end days vision.:
"I record this as a witness of my friend and cousin, George Albert Smith's description of a prophetic vision he saw. I began writing it last Sept and have remembered more as I concentrated on his comments. I've not recorded here all I now remember. See also Pres. Smith's General Conference speeches CR-1O/46:149-153 & CR-10/50:180-181."
If Horne had NOT changed the 'greek' to 'non european ancestry', then there might still be hope for this prophecy, but now, it MUST be fulfilled before Obama leaves office because he's the first President who's Black african ancestry definitely makes him 'non european'. And, IMO, it can't be fulfilled because too many things that go along with it are not in place. Just my opinion, but I'm calling it a 'fail'. When Trump is inaugurated, the coffin is nailed shut.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by Robin Hood »

The US withdrew nuclear missiles from Europe late in the 80's early 90's if my memory serves me right. They had Cruise and Pershing II missiles fitted with nuclear warheads in the UK and West Germany.

At that time the Soviet Union's (plus Warsaw Pact) conventional forces were significantly numerically superior to those of the US/Nato, which was the reason for the deployment of the mid-range missiles.

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jbalm
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by jbalm »

Once it doesn't happen, will its proponents say GAS was wrong, or will they fall back on the old well-it-wasn't-an-officially-sanctioned-prophecy thingy?

Just curious.

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AI2.0
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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Robin Hood wrote:The US withdrew nuclear missiles from Europe late in the 80's early 90's if my memory serves me right. They had Cruise and Pershing II missiles fitted with nuclear warheads in the UK and West Germany.

At that time the Soviet Union's (plus Warsaw Pact) conventional forces were significantly numerically superior to those of the US/Nato, which was the reason for the deployment of the mid-range missiles.
That's what I recall. And per this statement, the war was supposed to happen after--"I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began. So, if THAT was the fulfillment of this statement, then the war should have begun decades ago.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by davedan »

The problem with judging this prophecy before it is potentially fulfilled or not is that with manipulated media, we don't have adequate situational awareness.

The Soviet Union no longer exists,
The Soviet Union does still exist. The Communist party and the KGB/GRU are still active as ever (Putin, Cuba). The fall of the Soviet Union was a farse, and the seemingly pro-western governments of Eastern block nations are all secretly pro-Russian and when they are not, (like Poland in 2010), your airplane crashes with the entire executive government on board.
military might dwarfed that of the United States
Russia currently has superior nuclear, hypersonic missile, supercavitating torpedo, stealth submarine, tank (Armada), and space weapons capabilities. Putin just recently talked about their current superiority over any "potential aggressor".

I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began.
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... ded-legacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... ld-gift-r/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

President Obama has cancelled or cut funding missile defense programs according to the Heritage Foundation. Romney called out Obama for withdrawing missile defense from Poland in 2014 as a "gift to Russia". These so-called anti-ballistic missiles were secretly tipped with nuclear warheads as Putin has indicated on several occasions.
entangling alliances
NATO, South Korea, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.
take away the guns of the people
this might happen after the nuclear first-strike when a decapitated US gives its sovereignty over to NATO or similar "League of Democracies".
on a holiday after the election but before the inaugaration
MLK Day, January 16, 2017. It was only made a holiday in 1983, so GAS wouldn't have identified it.


Yes, I agree that if the GAS vision is not fulfilled on Dec 16, it's bunk.
Last edited by davedan on December 30th, 2016, 6:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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AI2.0
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by AI2.0 »

jbalm wrote:Once it doesn't happen, will its proponents say GAS was wrong, or will they fall back on the old well-it-wasn't-an-officially-sanctioned-prophecy thingy?

Just curious.
Being an 'officially sanctioned' prophecy doesn't seem to be a criteria for most of the things shared here.

I don't know, but I doubt they will admit it failed. I think the die hards will make excuses, or remain silent about it for a time and then bring up this prophecy again in a few years. Maybe someone will come up with another version that allows for another president of 'non european ancestry' or maybe an actual 'greek' president and they'll ignore the claims by Robert Horne that this wasn't what he remembered.

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AI2.0
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by AI2.0 »

davedan wrote:The problem with judging this prophecy before it is potentially fulfilled or not is that with manipulated media, we don't have adequate situational awareness.

The Soviet Union no longer exists,
The Soviet Union does still exist. The Communist party and the KGB/GRU are still active as ever (Putin, Cuba). The fall of the Soviet Union was a farse, and the seemingly pro-western governments of Eastern block nations are all secretly pro-Russian and when they are not, (like Poland in 2010), your airplane crashes with the entire executive government on board.
military might dwarfed that of the United States
Russia currently has superior nuclear, hypersonic missile, supercavitating torpedo, stealth submarine, tank (Armada), and space weapons capabilities. Putin just recently talked about their current superiority over any "potential aggressor".
Yea, the soviet bloc is gone. Putin is trying to retake the countries that broke away, but it no longer exists. These countries have their own governments,and consider themselves sovereign. I also don't think they 'dwarf' our military capabilities at this time.
I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began.
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... ded-legacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... ld-gift-r/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

President Obama has cancelled or cut funding missile defense programs according to the Heritage Foundation. Romney called out Obama for withdrawing missile defense from Poland in 2014 as a "gift to Russia". These so-called anti-ballistic missiles were secretly tipped with nuclear warheads as Putin has indicated on several occasions.
entangling alliances
NATO, South Korea, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.
take away the guns of the people
this might happen after the nuclear first-strike when a decapitated US gives its sovereignty over to NATO or similar "League of Democracies".
The key word is 'might'. It hasn't happened and it would have to happen in the next couple of weeks for it to be true. Sorry, but it's a fail. I still have my guns and I bet you do too (if you own any). Unless they take our guns in the next three weeks, then this is NOT a description of our present times.
I admitted that we have entangling alliances, but that wasn't prophetic--we had them back in 1947. We had them in 1914. We've had them for decades, so it didn't take a prophet to 'see' that and the problems it causes--we already saw the problems this situation causes.
on a holiday after the election but before the inaugaration
MLK Day, January 16, 2016. It was only made a holiday in 1983, so GAS wouldn't have identified it.


Yes, I agree that if the GAS vision is not fulfilled on Dec 16, it's bunk.
I'm assuming you meant January 16th, and yes, MLK is a holiday, so it's a possibility, but that means they'll have to take our guns away within the next 17 days. And, the timings already off, since this 'war' didn't begin back when the missiles were dismantled. Because of that, I think it's 'bunk' now.

Thanks for you responses.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by larsenb »

Maybe the 'prophecy/vision' was a strong possibility and conditions changed for some reason or another.

I think Pres. Smith had the visionary experience. This was reinforced for me when I heard a well-known individual say to me in my own house that the experience Smith had, and I believe it was in a conference in Oregon as I recall (could be wrong), was heard by Hugh Nibley's mother who was there, and who later told it to, I believe, was a relative of the aforementioned well-known individual.

You would all know this 'well-known' individual. He is mentioned quite a bit here and has had threads opened on him in this forum from time-to-time.

Maybe, what Smith saw was just one of several possibilities. He never came out and said it was a prophecy from the Lord to him to be promulgated to all the Church, did he?

Maybe the horror aspect of what he saw remains to happen, but under shifting circumstances; and our only take-away would be to not let such a happening catch us unprepared spiritually.
Last edited by larsenb on December 30th, 2016, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lundbaek
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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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It appears to me it may be too soon for Russia to attack the United States. I have serious doubts that the Russian military authorities consider themselves militarily prepared to win a war against the U.S.A. and its Western allies. They may well even realize that the U.S. and Western globalists are trying to provoke them to attack in order to achieve their own goals of establishing the global government that they failed to establish after WW1 with the League of Nations, and after WW2 with the United Nations. It may be several or more years before the Russian military authorities consider themselves militarily prepared to win a war against the U.S.A. and its Western allies.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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lundbaek wrote:It appears to me it may be too soon for Russia to attack the United States. I have serious doubts that the Russian military authorities consider themselves militarily prepared to win a war against the U.S.A. and its Western allies. They may well even realize that the U.S. and Western globalists are trying to provoke them to attack in order to achieve their own goals of establishing the global government that they failed to establish after WW1 with the League of Nations, and after WW2 with the United Nations. It may be several or more years before the Russian military authorities consider themselves militarily prepared to win a war against the U.S.A. and its Western allies.
This seems reasonable. But for me, as mentioned in another thread, it may be that if Russia does attack us, they have good reason to do so, if our current and ongoing provocation of Russia is any example.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by davedan »

In the shorter Oct 28, 1988 version, it says:

"The military power of the Soviet Union at this time would be much greater than the United States."

Putin says this here: https://youtu.be/rTcwQvKfhKY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"He said the United States would take away the weapons of the people. "

It doesn't indicate before or after attack. Pres. Obama has indicated he would like to do this in his last year and has made several Executive Orders since Jan 2016. Pres. Obama just made a new limit on guns.

https://www.google.com/amp/bearingarms. ... ent=safari" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by davedan on December 30th, 2016, 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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lundbaek wrote: It may be several or more years before the Russian military authorities consider themselves militarily prepared to win a war against the U.S.A. and its Western allies.
This is how Joel Skousen sees it. I think Skousen may be wrong and that with secret underground manufacturing facilities at Yamantau, it is hard to judge how far ahead Russia are. They are already ahead on modernized nukes, stealth submarines, supercavitating torpedoes, hypersonic missiles, space weapons, Armada Tank, etc.

Is there any basis for this "not ready yet" claim and either does Skousen. Skousen just says China needs more aircraft carriers not accepting that aircraft carriers are obsolete technology thanks to anti-ship ballistic missiles.
Last edited by davedan on December 30th, 2016, 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by lundbaek »

It has been suggested by Joel Skousen

"I also still believe that North Korea will provide the trigger event; it won’t be in the Middle East. North Korea now has missiles that can reach the entire US and the nuclear warheads to make them lethal. This means that NK can strike the US directly with an over-the-north-pole shot, although I don’t think that’s how it will begin. North Korea, like any aggressor, will seek to have a provocation, and I think that will come when NK attacks South Korea and the US responds in defense of South Korea. If the US uses any of its tactical nukes on North Korea, it could give the North Koreans the excuse to launch missiles at the US. China and Russia, as allies of NK, could then easily excuse their entrance into the war."

Sometime in the very early 1990s I spoke by phone for about an hour with David Horne. From that discussion and since, I have found no reason to doubt his integrity on that matter, or any other, for that matter.

Not being on the inside of either the Russian or the U.S. - Western military establishments or governments, I am not giving any basis for much of what I have written because I don't have adequate facts to back up my assumptions. I still think the GAS prophecy has merit and I am looking for ways in which it could be fulfilled. I am not trying to convince anybody else of its validity. This is an interesting topic/discussion and I am actually enjoying it.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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Om the book PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, author Duane Crowther states:
"The author has in his possession copies of two patiarchal blessings...in which a war between Russia and the United States is prophesied.....They are in complete harmony with each other. Each term the war a Thrrd World War. they speak of Russia and her allies and clearly state that they will be defeated by the United States and her allies. The United States is to be attacked by a strong European power. the war will take place largely in the air and under the ocean, and both major powers will drop bombs on each other. traitor after traitor will be detected and apprehended in this country...
(Source: PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, Page 12, Footnote 35 )
Last edited by lundbaek on December 30th, 2016, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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I also still believe that North Korea will provide the trigger event; it won’t be in the Middle East
Joel Skousen talks a lot about North Korea being the trigger, But Skousen is unaware of South Korea being divinely protected from the North during the Temple Dedication and following by several Prophets and Apostle dispatched for this purpose.

http://brainbender.blogspot.com/2016/12 ... l.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Isaiah 17 indicates the trigger event is Damascus. After seeing Aleppo reduced to a ruinous heep, it wouldn't take much for Damascus to be reduced to the same.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by thisisspartaaa »

lundbaek wrote:Om the book PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, author Duane Crowther states:
"The author has in his possession copies of two patiarchal blessings...in which a war between Russia and the United States is prophesied.....They are in complete harmony with each other. Each term the war a Thrrd World War. they speak of Russia and her allies and clearly state that they will be defeated by the United States and her allies. The United States is to be attacked by a strong European power. the war will take place largely in the air and under the ocean, and both major powers will drop bombs on each other. traitor after traitor will be detected and apprehended in this country...
(Source: PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, Page 12, Footnote 35 )
No idea as to the legitimacy of the blessings but that doesn't mean that it fulfills the GAS prophecy.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by skmo »

My take on it:

I don't believe it will ever come to fulfillment because I don't believe it exists. What I mean is that I don't believe it was a prophecy from President Smith. If I recall, we have nothing recorded from President Smith himself about it, and certainly there is no church sanctioning of it that I've heard about. I believe it was either a miscommunication or misunderstanding of something overheard. If this was something of importance other than as a tool of gossip and conjecture, we'd have heard about it from the mouths of those ordained to speak for God.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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skmo wrote:My take on it:

I don't believe it will ever come to fulfillment because I don't believe it exists. What I mean is that I don't believe it was a prophecy from President Smith. If I recall, we have nothing recorded from President Smith himself about it, and certainly there is no church sanctioning of it that I've heard about. I believe it was either a miscommunication or misunderstanding of something overheard. If this was something of importance other than as a tool of gossip and conjecture, we'd have heard about it from the mouths of those ordained to speak for God.
Once again, a very credible person heard the story of Pres. Smith's vision from the mother of Hugh Nibley. This person passed it on to another prominent member of his family, from whom I heard the story (whose name is mentioned in a front-page thread of this forum).

This version then, is entirely outside of the main source of the GAS 'prophecy'. Apparently, Hugh's mother was present when Pres. Smith had his experience. Based on my hearing this story from the person who told it to me, I don't have much doubt about Pres. Smith having an usual visionary experience.

Again, all of this does not give it the status of a prophecy to the Church, by a leader of same. But maybe GAS was given this experience to show him the dangers of what could happen. Or maybe it was to show him what would happen (nuclear attack), but the actual surrounding details were not hard and fast or that important.

Tough to know.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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AI2.0 wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:The US withdrew nuclear missiles from Europe late in the 80's early 90's if my memory serves me right. They had Cruise and Pershing II missiles fitted with nuclear warheads in the UK and West Germany.

At that time the Soviet Union's (plus Warsaw Pact) conventional forces were significantly numerically superior to those of the US/Nato, which was the reason for the deployment of the mid-range missiles.
That's what I recall. And per this statement, the war was supposed to happen after--"I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began. So, if THAT was the fulfillment of this statement, then the war should have begun decades ago.
I don't agree with your interpretation of "and then the war began" as meaning it would have had to have started in the 90's, ie. immediately after the withdrawal. While not by any means convinced by the so-called GAS prophecy, this seems to apply to the time we live in now. The disarmament has taken place, the Russians are now building their military might, and there is likely to be a time very soon when they will exceed the US, certainly in Europe.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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lundbaek wrote:Om the book PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, author Duane Crowther states:
"The author has in his possession copies of two patiarchal blessings...in which a war between Russia and the United States is prophesied.....They are in complete harmony with each other. Each term the war a Thrrd World War. they speak of Russia and her allies and clearly state that they will be defeated by the United States and her allies. The United States is to be attacked by a strong European power. the war will take place largely in the air and under the ocean, and both major powers will drop bombs on each other. traitor after traitor will be detected and apprehended in this country...
(Source: PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, Page 12, Footnote 35 )
That's what I've been saying. There will be a war, and the USA will win the war against Russia. As to the other things he says, I don't know...

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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larsenb wrote:... Once again, a very credible person heard the story of Pres. Smith's vision from the mother of Hugh Nibley. This person passed it on to another prominent member of his family, from whom I heard the story (whose name is mentioned in a front-page thread of this forum).

This version then, is entirely outside of the main source of the GAS 'prophecy'. Apparently, Hugh's mother was present when Pres. Smith had his experience. Based on my hearing this story from the person who told it to me, I don't have much doubt about Pres. Smith having an usual visionary experience.

Again, all of this does not give it the status of a prophecy to the Church, by a leader of same. But maybe GAS was given this experience to show him the dangers of what could happen. Or maybe it was to show him what would happen (nuclear attack), but the actual surrounding details were not hard and fast or that important.

Tough to know.
So you're saying Pres. Smith had TWO exact experiences on receiving this prophecy?
And, I'm assuming, at separate times, with separate people present?

(As to "very credible", if it's Julie Rowe, or Spencer, or etc., that only means "very non-credible" to me.)

And she remembered it all just the same, too? Did HN ever write or talk about this?

As an adult, I've had blessings given and received, and I have a very difficult time sitting down even moments afterwards and trying to write it all down--and these are much shorter and simpler blessings than that VERY long and VERY detailed prophecy.

Here, try this--write out your own patriarchal blessing, then see how much it differs from your real one.

Heck, listen to people's reports on a GA's talk--you'll get all kinds of "Operator" game content.

Unless this (9-year old??) guy AND HN's mother had "photographic hearing", I doubt it.

GAS gave a prophecy, then just walked out the door?

I don't doubt Bro. Horne believes he heard it. I just doubt he heard it, and remembered it, (completely) correctly.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by larsenb »

JohnnyL wrote:
larsenb wrote:... Once again, a very credible person heard the story of Pres. Smith's vision from the mother of Hugh Nibley. This person passed it on to another prominent member of his family, from whom I heard the story (whose name is mentioned in a front-page thread of this forum).

This version then, is entirely outside of the main source of the GAS 'prophecy'. Apparently, Hugh's mother was present when Pres. Smith had his experience. Based on my hearing this story from the person who told it to me, I don't have much doubt about Pres. Smith having an usual visionary experience.

Again, all of this does not give it the status of a prophecy to the Church, by a leader of same. But maybe GAS was given this experience to show him the dangers of what could happen. Or maybe it was to show him what would happen (nuclear attack), but the actual surrounding details were not hard and fast or that important.

Tough to know.
So you're saying Pres. Smith had TWO exact experiences on receiving this prophecy?
And, I'm assuming, at separate times, with separate people present?

(As to "very credible", if it's Julie Rowe, or Spencer, or etc., that only means "very non-credible" to me.)

And she remembered it all just the same, too? Did HN ever write or talk about this?

As an adult, I've had blessings given and received, and I have a very difficult time sitting down even moments afterwards and trying to write it all down--and these are much shorter and simpler blessings than that VERY long and VERY detailed prophecy.

Here, try this--write out your own patriarchal blessing, then see how much it differs from your real one.

Heck, listen to people's reports on a GA's talk--you'll get all kinds of "Operator" game content.

Unless this (9-year old??) guy AND HN's mother had "photographic hearing", I doubt it.

GAS gave a prophecy, then just walked out the door?

I don't doubt Bro. Horne believes he heard it. I just doubt he heard it, and remembered it, (completely) correctly.
Not Julie Rowe or Spencer . . . nobody of that type. Also, I don't recall hearing a lot of detail. I believe he said GAS had described people dying like flies due to nuclear attack. Not much more than that.

I'm not aware that the story as allegedly told by HN's mother has been published anywhere. And I assume the person who related it to me hasn't done so, for the very reason of not wanting to become embroiled in the type of speculation rampant on this subject in this forum.

My take-away from hearing it is that the story (at least in its rudiments) has more than one witness to the actual experience GAS underwent by someone who was there. That is all. I don't get wrapped up in the whole thing, personally.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

Post by AI2.0 »

larsenb wrote:Maybe the 'prophecy/vision' was a strong possibility and conditions changed for some reason or another.

I think Pres. Smith had the visionary experience. This was reinforced for me when I heard a well-known individual say to me in my own house that the experience Smith had, and I believe it was in a conference in Oregon as I recall (could be wrong), was heard by Hugh Nibley's mother who was there, and who later told it to, I believe, was a relative of the aforementioned well-known individual.Why so cryptic? Do you know who this 'well-known individual' is? Why not tell who the individual is and provide a reference for we can find Hugh Nibley's mother claiming this.

You would all know this 'well-known' individual. He is mentioned quite a bit here and has had threads opened on him in this forum from time-to-time.Then share who it is, please. Sources do matter, as to determining credibility of the claim.

Maybe, what Smith saw was just one of several possibilities. He never came out and said it was a prophecy from the Lord to him to be promulgated to all the Church, did he?I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways. If it was a prophecy of events which were certain to happen then don't you think the church should have known about it? Don't you think Pres. Smith should have recorded it in his own journal and shared it with his brethren in the 12? And if the events weren't actually going to happen, then what is the point of dredging them up and continuing to share them, still believing they are going to be fulfilled? The fact is, David Horne is our only source for this (if you discount the obvious forgery by Kevin Fuller--the LaVerkin account) and he never suggested it was one of several possibilities--one of 'several possibilities' is not prophecy, that's what's known as speculation or guessing.

Maybe the horror aspect of what he saw remains to happen, but under shifting circumstances; and our only take-away would be to not let such a happening catch us unprepared spiritually.
But then, how's it supposed to help the saints spiritually prepare for these events, if Pres. Smith supposedly only shared it with the Horne family and only one son wrote it down--forty years later. 99.999% of the church members don't know about it so it can't help them prepare. That logic just doesn't make sense.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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lundbaek wrote:Om the book PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, author Duane Crowther states:
"The author has in his possession copies of two patiarchal blessings...in which a war between Russia and the United States is prophesied.....They are in complete harmony with each other. Each term the war a Thrrd World War. they speak of Russia and her allies and clearly state that they will be defeated by the United States and her allies. The United States is to be attacked by a strong European power. the war will take place largely in the air and under the ocean, and both major powers will drop bombs on each other. traitor after traitor will be detected and apprehended in this country...
(Source: PROPHECY - KEY TO THE FUTURE, Page 12, Footnote 35 )
A simply footnote alluding to this is not proof, IMO. I know people who are now dead who believed their patriarchal blessings said they would live to see the second coming. Patriarchal blessings are often misinterpreted to mean things that they do not say and that could be the case with these claims about supposed predictions about war between Russian and the US. We'd have to read the blessings for ourselves to know the exact content. And, it would be good to know who the Patriarch was also.

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Re: Why the George Albert Smith 'prophecy' will not be fulfilled:

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larsenb wrote:
JohnnyL wrote:
larsenb wrote:... Once again, a very credible person heard the story of Pres. Smith's vision from the mother of Hugh Nibley. This person passed it on to another prominent member of his family, from whom I heard the story (whose name is mentioned in a front-page thread of this forum).

This version then, is entirely outside of the main source of the GAS 'prophecy'. Apparently, Hugh's mother was present when Pres. Smith had his experience. Based on my hearing this story from the person who told it to me, I don't have much doubt about Pres. Smith having an usual visionary experience.

Again, all of this does not give it the status of a prophecy to the Church, by a leader of same. But maybe GAS was given this experience to show him the dangers of what could happen. Or maybe it was to show him what would happen (nuclear attack), but the actual surrounding details were not hard and fast or that important.

Tough to know.
So you're saying Pres. Smith had TWO exact experiences on receiving this prophecy?
And, I'm assuming, at separate times, with separate people present?

(As to "very credible", if it's Julie Rowe, or Spencer, or etc., that only means "very non-credible" to me.)

And she remembered it all just the same, too? Did HN ever write or talk about this?

As an adult, I've had blessings given and received, and I have a very difficult time sitting down even moments afterwards and trying to write it all down--and these are much shorter and simpler blessings than that VERY long and VERY detailed prophecy.

Here, try this--write out your own patriarchal blessing, then see how much it differs from your real one.

Heck, listen to people's reports on a GA's talk--you'll get all kinds of "Operator" game content.

Unless this (9-year old??) guy AND HN's mother had "photographic hearing", I doubt it.

GAS gave a prophecy, then just walked out the door?

I don't doubt Bro. Horne believes he heard it. I just doubt he heard it, and remembered it, (completely) correctly.
Not Julie Rowe or Spencer . . . nobody of that type. Also, I don't recall hearing a lot of detail. I believe he said GAS had described people dying like flies due to nuclear attack. Not much more than that.

I'm not aware that the story as allegedly told by HN's mother has been published anywhere. And I assume the person who related it to me hasn't done so, for the very reason of not wanting to become embroiled in the type of speculation rampant on this subject in this forum.

My take-away from hearing it is that the story (at least in its rudiments) has more than one witness to the actual experience GAS underwent by someone who was there. That is all. I don't get wrapped up in the whole thing, personally.
I believe this is the 'source' for those claiming Hugh Nibley's mother is also a witness and heard Pres. Smith's vision. It is from David Horne.
"After reading my 28 Oct version my brother Robert said he remembered Pres. Smith's visit exactly as I wrote it but doesn't remember some I since added. Alice said she remembered some of the 23 Dec version. On 18 Dec Dr. Hugh Nibley said his mother (a close friend of Pres. Smith) told him about the vision which Pres. Smith received at a conference in the Bay Area and related it in his talk. Dr. Nibley also said he was close to LeGrand Richard's family and Sister Richards told him about the vision, too."

Copyrighted-All Rights Reserved. David Hughes Horne, P.E.
Unless someone can offer another source for these claims abt. Hugh Nibley and his mother, then Horne (2/28/89 version) is the only witness and that's not corroboration, that's heresay.

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