Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

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Cc07
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Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Cc07 »

Why was Samuel able to prophesy and give a date of 5 years until the birth of the Savior and we are only given signs to watch for the Second Coming and not a date like Samuel gave?

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mes5464
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by mes5464 »

I think the reason is the birth of Christ was not the end of your chance to repent while the Second Coming marks the end of your chance to repent and the beginning of the judgement.

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pjbrownie
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by pjbrownie »

Who says we won't at some point? I tend to think a prophet will warn us.

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shadow
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by shadow »

mes5464 wrote:I think the reason is the birth of Christ was not the end of your chance to repent while the Second Coming marks the end of your chance to repent and the beginning of the judgement.
The second coming isn't the end of the opportunity to repent. The second coming happens towards the first part of the seventh seal, the Great Jehovah doesn't proclaim "the work is done" until the end of the 7th seal.

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Obrien
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Obrien »

I cannot believe your opportunity to repent is over, forever, at the second coming. Surely there is a time and place for repentance in the timeframe of FOREVER.

You won't get an exact date because it's going to come upon the earth by surprise. Jesus said it will come as a thief in the night, and that precludes an exact warning. I believe Him.

Silver
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Silver »

Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang (Discourses of Brigham Young, 208).

Alright, it sounds to me as if there is still a chance to repent during the Millennium.

Sunain
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Sunain »

Judgement is the last step in the Plan of Salvation. Till then we have time to repent in mortal life or in the spirit world.
Conditions in spirit world
Repentance Makes Us Free
Elder Hartman Rector, Jr. Of the First Council of the Seventy
Hartman Rector, Jr., Conference Report, October 1970, pp. 73-75

Oh yes, it is possible to repent in the spirit world, although we are given to understand that it is much more difficult to repent there because we will not have our physical bodies to help us. Also an integral part of repentance is that we must make restitution. This means that if you have stolen five dollars, you have to return five dollars to the person whom you have robbed. This may be very difficult to do in the spirit world. You can also understand then why murder and adultery or fornication are such grievous sins; how can you make restitution? Virtue once gone cannot be replaced. Neither can a life be restored.
http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gospel Fundamentals - Chapter 35: Life after Death
Our Father in Heaven’s prophets have told us that missionaries will be sent from among the righteous in the spirit world to teach the gospel to all the spirits of the dead people. Many will accept the gospel and repent.
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-funda ... h?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think we've already had prophet's tell us since President Benson until now that we need to get our houses in order. I think that's pretty loud and clear. We've been given a timeline from prophets of old to modern day prophets for the signs to look for. Many have been fulfilled already. There isn't many more major signs to be fulfilled before the Second Coming.

I agree with others here. Samuel only proclaimed that the savior would be born 5 years before it happened. I'm sure when we get even closer to the second coming, prophet's and apostles will give a stricter warning but I also think we will know ourselves that His return is imminent by looking at the signs especially regarding Israel and Jerusalem. He may come as a thief in the night but when we see Jerusalem under siege and about to be defeated, that's when the final sign is fulfilled when He rescues them. It's almost like we have a checklist for the second coming instead of a 5 year warning.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Robin Hood »

pjbrownie wrote:Who says we won't at some point? I tend to think a prophet will warn us.
A "thief in the night" doesn't tell you when he's coming.

zionminded
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by zionminded »

Sunain wrote:Judgement is the last step in the Plan of Salvation. Till then we have time to repent in mortal life or in the spirit world.
Conditions in spirit world
Repentance Makes Us Free
Elder Hartman Rector, Jr. Of the First Council of the Seventy
Hartman Rector, Jr., Conference Report, October 1970, pp. 73-75

Oh yes, it is possible to repent in the spirit world, although we are given to understand that it is much more difficult to repent there because we will not have our physical bodies to help us. Also an integral part of repentance is that we must make restitution. This means that if you have stolen five dollars, you have to return five dollars to the person whom you have robbed. This may be very difficult to do in the spirit world. You can also understand then why murder and adultery or fornication are such grievous sins; how can you make restitution? Virtue once gone cannot be replaced. Neither can a life be restored.
http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gospel Fundamentals - Chapter 35: Life after Death
Our Father in Heaven’s prophets have told us that missionaries will be sent from among the righteous in the spirit world to teach the gospel to all the spirits of the dead people. Many will accept the gospel and repent.
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-funda ... h?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think we've already had prophet's tell us since President Benson until now that we need to get our houses in order. I think that's pretty loud and clear. We've been given a timeline from prophets of old to modern day prophets for the signs to look for. Many have been fulfilled already. There isn't many more major signs to be fulfilled before the Second Coming.

I agree with others here. Samuel only proclaimed that the savior would be born 5 years before it happened. I'm sure when we get even closer to the second coming, prophet's and apostles will give a stricter warning but I also think we will know ourselves that His return is imminent by looking at the signs especially regarding Israel and Jerusalem. He may come as a thief in the night but when we see Jerusalem under siege and about to be defeated, that's when the final sign is fulfilled when He rescues them. It's almost like we have a checklist for the second coming instead of a 5 year warning.
Judgment really doesn't exist like some people think.

Onsdag
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Onsdag »

Robin Hood wrote:
pjbrownie wrote:Who says we won't at some point? I tend to think a prophet will warn us.
A "thief in the night" doesn't tell you when he's coming.
Joseph Smith taught that Christ won't come as a thief in the night for the righteous, and that the Prophets will know when it is time:


"Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass; again we find Paul 1st of Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as the theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night. But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares. John the revelator says 14 chap 7th verse that the hour of his judgements is come they are precursers or forerunners of the comeing of Christ. read Matthew 24 Chap and all the Prophets. He says then shall they see the Sign of the comeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it Ans. As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and shineth unto the west—So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy so also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes. Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a natural cause. They will probably suppose it is two great comets comeing in contact with each other It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger untill it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843)

brianj
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by brianj »

Onsdag wrote:Joseph Smith taught that Christ won't come as a thief in the night for the righteous, and that the Prophets will know when it is time:


"Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass; again we find Paul 1st of Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as the theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night. But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares. John the revelator says 14 chap 7th verse that the hour of his judgements is come they are precursers or forerunners of the comeing of Christ. read Matthew 24 Chap and all the Prophets. He says then shall they see the Sign of the comeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it Ans. As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and shineth unto the west—So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy so also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes. Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a natural cause. They will probably suppose it is two great comets comeing in contact with each other It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger untill it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843)
I disagree with some of your assertions. Amos 3:7 does say that God will do nothing until (JST) He reveals His secret to the prophets. I don't see anything in that verse, adjacent verses, or anywhere else in the scriptures that states a specific time and date will be given. I doubt President Woodruff knew when, or even if, the plural marriage doctrine would be suspended until he was directed to do so. I'm confident Joseph Smith knew he would be murdered as a martyr to the gospel, but I doubt he was told exactly when it would happen.
We have received prophecy of the Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man, which is to be a great light in the sky, and when the wicked see that sign they will assume it is something natural and dismiss it. The faithful Saints will recognize that sign and know when they see it that the Second Coming is "any day now" but they won't know if it is going to be the Thursday after next. We will know the season, maybe even the week, but not the day nor time.

Onsdag
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Onsdag »

brianj wrote:
Onsdag wrote:Joseph Smith taught that Christ won't come as a thief in the night for the righteous, and that the Prophets will know when it is time:


"Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass; again we find Paul 1st of Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as the theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night. But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares. John the revelator says 14 chap 7th verse that the hour of his judgements is come they are precursers or forerunners of the comeing of Christ. read Matthew 24 Chap and all the Prophets. He says then shall they see the Sign of the comeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it Ans. As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and shineth unto the west—So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy so also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes. Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a natural cause. They will probably suppose it is two great comets comeing in contact with each other It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger untill it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843)
I disagree with some of your assertions. Amos 3:7 does say that God will do nothing until (JST) He reveals His secret to the prophets. I don't see anything in that verse, adjacent verses, or anywhere else in the scriptures that states a specific time and date will be given. I doubt President Woodruff knew when, or even if, the plural marriage doctrine would be suspended until he was directed to do so. I'm confident Joseph Smith knew he would be murdered as a martyr to the gospel, but I doubt he was told exactly when it would happen.
We have received prophecy of the Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man, which is to be a great light in the sky, and when the wicked see that sign they will assume it is something natural and dismiss it. The faithful Saints will recognize that sign and know when they see it that the Second Coming is "any day now" but they won't know if it is going to be the Thursday after next. We will know the season, maybe even the week, but not the day nor time.
Those aren't my assertions - they are Joseph Smith's. He's the one that declared the "sectarianism" teaching that "no man throughout all generations... should... know the day or the hour" was false and a "flat contradiction with other scripture." Furthermore, he's also the one who said "But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares." Those are his teachings - the teachings of a Prophet of God. If you have issues with it then I would kindly suggest you take it up with him. :)

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by BeNotDeceived »

pjbrownie wrote: December 5th, 2016, 6:37 pm Who says we won't at some point? I tend to think a prophet will warn us.
There is an abundance of information; it seems folly to think it's all supplied for naught. Image

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AI2.0
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by AI2.0 »

Cc07 wrote: December 5th, 2016, 11:35 am Why was Samuel able to prophesy and give a date of 5 years until the birth of the Savior and we are only given signs to watch for the Second Coming and not a date like Samuel gave?
The Lord warned that in the Second Coming he would come 'as a thief in the night' and certainly, the thief doesn't give a date or time. Does that mean all will be unprepared and surprised by his coming? No, the Lord also pointed out that with the fig tree, you could see the leaves and know that the time was close, and also that we would know by watching the signs of the times, that the thief is soon to come. He reminded us that if we watched the signs, we'd know when to watch for the 'thief' to come. If we are mindful of the signs, we will not be taken by surprise, as the rest of the world will be.

Sunain
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Sunain »

The only people that will be surprised by the Lord's second coming as though he comes 'as a thief in the night' are those that don't look for the signs of his coming. There is a whole forum here dedicated to signs of the last days. We may not know the exact time but we'll know approximately.

BackBlast
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by BackBlast »

brianj wrote: December 6th, 2016, 5:57 pm I disagree with some of your assertions. Amos 3:7 does say that God will do nothing until (JST) He reveals His secret to the prophets. I don't see anything in that verse, adjacent verses, or anywhere else in the scriptures that states a specific time and date will be given. I doubt President Woodruff knew when, or even if, the plural marriage doctrine would be suspended until he was directed to do so. I'm confident Joseph Smith knew he would be murdered as a martyr to the gospel, but I doubt he was told exactly when it would happen.
Joseph Smith knew about 5 years ahead of time the approximate season of his death (IE, within a few months). He wasn't given a day that I know of. I don't know if he knew the how, but there were plenty of clues for him to pick it up so he probably knew. I believe I heard it mentioned in the Truman Madsen series on Joseph Smith, "Joseph Smith and Trials" is my best guess as to which.

Z2100
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Z2100 »

Sunain wrote: June 15th, 2017, 2:47 pm We may not know the exact time but we'll know approximately.
Very true. Most of the signs have been fufilled already. We're just looking for the very last signs to determine the decade of his coming.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Has those who think they possess the keys, haven forgot that John told us that when the confirmation of the Covenant is come, which start the final week of Daniel, that those who watch for this sign, shall be that generation which will not pass until all these things have come to pass. Those who watch shall know seven years before the Day of His coming!

Shalom

Juliet
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Re: Samuel the Lamanite prophesied 5 yrs

Post by Juliet »

They saw the sign of his birth, but they didn't know when He was going to visit them. Having a date for a sign isn't being given a sure knowledge. You could still chalk up the sign to coincidence or physical causes. So, giving a sign of His birth was for people who believed in Jesus. It was faith promoting for them, and I am sure not faith promoting for others.

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