I don't believe this world is ripe for destruction yet.

[brianj]

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

-----

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:3-4

I was thinking of the quote from 2 Timothy today. Every single one of those behaviors is easy to find today, and many of those are easy to find in an LDS meetinghouse on Sunday.

[freedomforall]

Barry McGuire doesn't believe you:

https://youtu.be/ntLsElbW9Xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

Has anything changed much in 52 years? ;) It's just shifted to the Middle/Near East with China looming in the background . . . and maybe Russia if Hillary and Obama, etc., etc., were to have their way.

What is the name of a group Barry was with in the sixties?

[Aaronjs0005]

You believe that the wicked outnumber the good. I don't, at least I don't believe that they do yet. I think we are just shown the depravity and sin while the good are ignored.

How do you define wicked and good? The most wicked people I have known think of themselves as basically good people. The great guy who started a charity for the purpose of helping others, but who is a strong advocate for polyamory, the nice gay couple who have adopted several children, and the countless couples who are living together and having children without marriage aren't actively going around trying to force everybody to commit their sins, they are mostly decent members of the community, but they are committing acts of wickedness.

The average teenage boy isn't painting himself in blood and killing everybody who disagrees with him, but the average boy loses his virginity before his 17th birthday. The average girl loses her virginity shortly after her 17th birthday. The average American has had more than seven sexual partners.

Good news: The divorce rate is falling. Bad news: Because people are cohabitating instead of marrying.

Sexual promiscuity, the frequency of marriages that end in divorce, the percentage of children born out of wedlock, and the percentage of Americans who don't believe in any religion are some of the metrics I use to define good and wicked. By these metrics, good isn't a majority.

Bingo, it is beyond me how anyone cannot see the gross darkness God's children live in, including many with great qualities. And its far worse than we can see. Members will shun some member at church for not being good enough, but then be best friends with the guy at work who is far worse than that guy at church. Most members will would love Satan just fine, as long as he was cool, charming and talented & shun someone like my friend Thomas who converted over a decade ago because he's quirky and quiet, though his heart is absolute gold! But to be more direct, the level of pride, arrogance and indifference even in the church is staggering. Most everything seems based on coolness. This certainly is not righteousness? On that basis the Latter Day Saints would get a long with Satan himself.

Who said that I don't see it. What I said is that you don't see the good. You are only looking for the bad.

I think conditions are going to get much worse. I think it's going to get to the point where you will be risking your life to admit that you are LDS. Even in Utah. That's how wicked it got the last time the savior visited the people of this continent.

I don't believe that risking your life to admit you are LDS is as much a sign that ppl have gotten more wicked as much as we have bc more of a target. The irony here is its bc I see the goodness in ppl that I don't believe it will get much worse, though it will. Were pretty close. You say you see the good but that it will be the same as it was certain bubbles of existence and I don't believe murdering is exactly what the Lord is talking abt when He talks abt wickedness and sin, even gross sin. Kids watch pornography as the normal now a days and its demented and destroys. The Lord doesn't mean everyone will be murderers or Hitler. He's mostly contrasting His standards and how society has utterly desecrated the body and His holy ways.

You think even here I Utah your life will be threatened to admit your LDS? I'd like to hear a logical case made how that cld happen. The whole country turns against us? Everyone has a raging madness against us worse than bf and like nothing we see now? What abt all the other church goers? Just us? With McMullin, and Utah rejecting Trump in many respects, how much worse can it get? Yes, it will get worse, but everyone will be afraid to admit they are Mormon and out lives constantly under threat? I know some prophecies talk of ppl actually coming here bc its safer than other parts of the country. Trust me, its not a matter of me "looking" for the bad and not seeing the good. I see LOTS of good! I do not humans in general will ever be Hitler. Evan many wicked ppl have good qualities. There will ALWAYS be LOTS of goodness, even in the worst circumstances! LOTS! And I wld say many ppl are better than than many of the LDS ppl, in many respects. I would really like someone to explain how Utah is going to bc so bad Mormons will be under threat constant threat which wld imply many wld constantly be dying. The Miss, Illinois and Ohio stuff was largely politics, fueled by our unique doctrines, but we were a political threat. We are way in the mountains. How are we going to bc a political threat? The elders step in and SAVE the government now in shatters? If what your saying is true it better happen soon if the 2nd coming is 40 yrs away and I don't see what wld cause it on that level. I know lots of Trump's most die hard supporters don't care for us. This isn't a Lamanite verse Nephite dynamic. This country is full of so many different and powerful groups.

[Aaronjs0005]

There is plenty of good in the world. Here's a suggestion; stop playing God's role as judge, take a break from the forum and bring some Christmas cheer to someone you know. You just might have a different view of the world.

(facepalm) Yes, there is good in the world. So what? Is there enough good? We've been told that mankind today is more wicked than in the days of Noah. Were there only eight people in the world with any amount of goodness within themselves when the flood came? I sincerely doubt it. I'll bet that even in Sodom there was some level of goodness among the people. Sure they wanted the Lot to send out the two messengers so they could sodomize those men, but can any city continue to exist if there isn't some goodness within the residents?

Ripe in iniquity doesn't mean the complete absence of goodness. It means there isn't enough righteousness. I see some guy hit his date, take his picture, and threaten to return the favor if he touches her again. He calls her a few vile names as he walks away. After she declines my offer to call the police, she accepts my offer to drive her home. Out of the sense of goodness and kindness that she has, she offers to thank me with a sexual favor. I call that goodness, she is willing to do something kind and put a smile on the face of some guy as a way of expressing gratitude. But it is also wicked.

Is a society wherein a large portion of the people think sexual acts are an appropriate expression of gratitude for doing a favor wicked?

Its like prison inmates who do drugs, look at perverted pornography, lust over guards all of this seen in movies and documentaries, but they hate the thought of a child being abused and wld protect a child many of them. Ppl have this idea that seems far fetched. Wickedness is like an emphasis word. It doesn't mean there is no goodness and its more having to do with how abominable most ppl's behavior is by celestial standard and the desecration of these sacred bodies. Pornography is acceptable for example and yet creates misery, very weak marriages, divorce, lack of love from parents to children, breakdown and yet the breakdown of the family is worse than ever and the breakdown of warmth and light even in families that stay together is worse than ever.

[larsenb]

Barry McGuire doesn't believe you:

https://youtu.be/ntLsElbW9Xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

Has anything changed much in 52 years? ;) It's just shifted to the Middle/Near East with China looming in the background . . . and maybe Russia if Hillary and Obama, etc., etc., were to have their way.

What is the name of a group Barry was with in the sixties?

Don't recall, even though I was there. Wikipedia says the following:

After working as a commercial fisherman, and then going on to become a journeyman pipe fitter, McGuire got a job singing in a bar. In 1961, he released his first single called "The Tree", which was not a hit.

He formed a duo with Barry Kane (d. 2013) called Barry & Barry. The new duo folk act performed their own brand of original folk arrangements—noticeably impressive melodies laced with rich harmonies—at The Ice House, a small folk club in Pasadena, CA. before moving on to The Troubadour in Hollywood in the spring of 1962. At The Troubadour they both joined The New Christy Minstrels, a large folk group performing there, and McGuire sang lead vocals on their novelty single "Three Wheels on My Wagon".

They continued to perform their separate duo act there as well as performing with The New Christy Minstrels. Under Horizon Records, they cut their first and only album as Barry & Barry called "Here And Now" which contained songs such as "Gold Wedding Ring", "Land Of Odin", the single "Another Man", "Summer's Over", "You Know My Name", "Bull 'Gine Run", and "Far Side Of The Hill". It also included "If I Had A Hammer". released three months after the release of the same song by folk trio Peter, Paul and Mary. Their LP "Here And Now" on vinyl eventually went out of print, but has since been digitally remastered and re-released on CD.

In 1963, McGuire along with Randy Sparks (the founder of The New Christy Minstrels) co-wrote, and sang lead vocal on, the Christys' first and biggest hit single: "Green, Green." He left the Christys in January 1965, after recording the album, Cowboys and Indians; however, on the 1965 album Chim Chim Cher-ee, he sang only on the title cut.

[Spaced_Out]

I don't believe that risking your life to admit you are LDS is as much a sign that ppl have gotten more wicked as much as we have bc more of a target. The irony here is its bc I see the goodness in ppl that I don't believe it will get much worse, though it will. Were pretty close. You say you see the good but that it will be the same as it was certain bubbles of existence and I don't believe murdering is exactly what the Lord is talking abt when He talks abt wickedness and sin, even gross sin. Kids watch pornography as the normal now a days and its demented and destroys. The Lord doesn't mean everyone will be murderers or Hitler. He's mostly contrasting His standards and how society has utterly desecrated the body and His holy ways.

It is about freedom - the people at the time of Noah were destroyed because there was only wicked examples and had no chance to choose right from wrong. The bible has now been declared fiction and is place on book stores with story books, acceptance of pornography, alternate life styles etc. teachings at most schools about the creation, climate change etc.. There is very little chance of people being brought up with good moral judgment and the younger generation are so far removed from spiritual things that the missionaries have a hard time. When I was on mission there was a lot of discussion on Christian principles and what the bible scriptures meant. Today the missionaries don't get that, they have to teach from the very basics and it is an uphill battle as faith in a God is just not there.

It might be different in Utah but not the rest of the world. If Brigham Young and the early prophets were told that SLC will one day have a gay mayor you would of been stoned for blasphemy.

Is the world ripe for destruction one also has to think about freed and free choice - as in your post we are more wicked already than the people in Noah's day, but there is still some freedom or is there. I a person born in the USA not in a Christian family - do they have a chance at coming to the truth!!!!! I know what you are going to say - but I see things getting to that point sooooooon. So what is your take on current freedom of choice placed in front of the youth of the world and the USA..

[freedomforall]

Barry McGuire doesn't believe you:

https://youtu.be/ntLsElbW9Xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube][/youtube]

Has anything changed much in 52 years? ;) It's just shifted to the Middle/Near East with China looming in the background . . . and maybe Russia if Hillary and Obama, etc., etc., were to have their way.

What is the name of a group Barry was with in the sixties?

Don't recall, even though I was there. Wikipedia says the following:

After working as a commercial fisherman, and then going on to become a journeyman pipe fitter, McGuire got a job singing in a bar. In 1961, he released his first single called "The Tree", which was not a hit.

He formed a duo with Barry Kane (d. 2013) called Barry & Barry. The new duo folk act performed their own brand of original folk arrangements—noticeably impressive melodies laced with rich harmonies—at The Ice House, a small folk club in Pasadena, CA. before moving on to The Troubadour in Hollywood in the spring of 1962. At The Troubadour they both joined The New Christy Minstrels, a large folk group performing there, and McGuire sang lead vocals on their novelty single "Three Wheels on My Wagon".

They continued to perform their separate duo act there as well as performing with The New Christy Minstrels. Under Horizon Records, they cut their first and only album as Barry & Barry called "Here And Now" which contained songs such as "Gold Wedding Ring", "Land Of Odin", the single "Another Man", "Summer's Over", "You Know My Name", "Bull 'Gine Run", and "Far Side Of The Hill". It also included "If I Had A Hammer". released three months after the release of the same song by folk trio Peter, Paul and Mary. Their LP "Here And Now" on vinyl eventually went out of print, but has since been digitally remastered and re-released on CD.

In 1963, McGuire along with Randy Sparks (the founder of The New Christy Minstrels) co-wrote, and sang lead vocal on, the Christys' first and biggest hit single: "Green, Green." He left the Christys in January 1965, after recording the album, Cowboys and Indians; however, on the 1965 album Chim Chim Cher-ee, he sang only on the title cut.

Yup, the New Christy Minstrels. He wasn't with them for very long, yet some of the Christy's songs were pretty good, most found on Youtube.

Kenny Rogers was with them for a short time as well, leading him to form Kenny Rogers and The First Edition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AULOC--qUOI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Different]

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

-----

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:3-4

I was thinking of the quote from 2 Timothy today. Every single one of those behaviors is easy to find today, and many of those are easy to find in an LDS meetinghouse on Sunday.

Theres a quote that in the last days about not being able to tell between a member of the church and someone who is not. I forget who its by.

[Hivetyrant36]

People don't see the evil, much in the same way they shy away from knowledge. "Don't tell me that it's negative"
People are far too concerned about the feel good attitude that they would much rather think the world is good because a single unimportant dog was rescued, rather than look at reality and see the mass filth of sexualization, political corruption, and whole cities destroyed by war. That lil pupper is the single thing they hide behind so they don't have to worry about it.

[brianj]

California's Senate Bill 1322 has made the news lately, even though it was signed in September. With regards to prostitution laws it says:
b) (1) Who solicits or who agrees to engage in or who engages in any act of prostitution. A person agrees to engage in an act of prostitution when, with specific intent to so engage, he or she manifests an acceptance of an offer or solicitation to so engage, regardless of whether the offer or solicitation was made by a person who also possessed the specific intent to engage in prostitution. No agreement to engage in an act of prostitution shall constitute a violation of this subdivision unless some act, in addition to the agreement, is done within this state in furtherance of the commission of an act of prostitution by the person agreeing to engage in that act. As used in this subdivision, “prostitution” includes any lewd act between persons for money or other consideration.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), this subdivision does not apply to a child under 18 years of age who is alleged to have engaged in conduct to receive money or other consideration that would, if committed by an adult, violate this subdivision. A commercially exploited child under this paragraph may be adjudged a dependent child of the court pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) of Section 300 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and may be taken into temporary custody pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 305 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, if the conditions allowing temporary custody without warrant are met.

As of Sunday itt's a crime to solicit prostitution, agree to engage in prostitution, or actually engage in prostitution, but only if you are 18 or older. Supporters of this bill claim that it will make fighting child prostitution easier, but since this law also places strict restrictions on when children can be taken into custody, it will make fighting child prostitution more difficult. This will result in more children being forced into prostitution.

[Todd]

California's Senate Bill 1322 has made the news lately, even though it was signed in September. With regards to prostitution laws it says:
b) (1) Who solicits or who agrees to engage in or who engages in any act of prostitution. A person agrees to engage in an act of prostitution when, with specific intent to so engage, he or she manifests an acceptance of an offer or solicitation to so engage, regardless of whether the offer or solicitation was made by a person who also possessed the specific intent to engage in prostitution. No agreement to engage in an act of prostitution shall constitute a violation of this subdivision unless some act, in addition to the agreement, is done within this state in furtherance of the commission of an act of prostitution by the person agreeing to engage in that act. As used in this subdivision, “prostitution” includes any lewd act between persons for money or other consideration.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), this subdivision does not apply to a child under 18 years of age who is alleged to have engaged in conduct to receive money or other consideration that would, if committed by an adult, violate this subdivision. A commercially exploited child under this paragraph may be adjudged a dependent child of the court pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) of Section 300 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and may be taken into temporary custody pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 305 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, if the conditions allowing temporary custody without warrant are met.

As of Sunday itt's a crime to solicit prostitution, agree to engage in prostitution, or actually engage in prostitution, but only if you are 18 or older. Supporters of this bill claim that it will make fighting child prostitution easier, but since this law also places strict restrictions on when children can be taken into custody, it will make fighting child prostitution more difficult. This will result in more children being forced into prostitution.

This was an interesting bill indeed. The proponents claim it will actually help those victimize by child trafficking, since they won't have an "arrest" record later on in life after they have been rescued.

But I agree with Brian. IMO this will actually encourage the pimps to force more children into prostitution. Sad.

[brianj]

Not only that, but the main tool police use to take on demand is sting operations. If you want a prostitute but you're afraid of getting arrested, just find some 16 or 17 year old boy to go pick some girl up. If she turns out to be a cop, the kids can't be arrested.

[freedomforall]

I can guaranty that a bouquet of raunchy armpits is ripe.

[markharr]

I held back and gave you time to prove your end times scenarios that I was assured would happen before inauguration day. I stand by my original statement. The world is rapidly ripening for destruction but is not yet ripe. There is still wheat to be gathered into fathers barn. Stop standing around on the edge of the field waiting for father to burn it and get out there and gather the wheat.

[Silver]

I held back and gave you time to prove your end times scenarios that I was assured would happen before inauguration day. I stand by my original statement. The world is rapidly ripening for destruction but is not yet ripe. There is still wheat to be gathered into fathers barn. Stop standing around on the edge of the field waiting for father to burn it and get out there and gather the wheat.

Bravo!

[brianj]

I held back and gave you time to prove your end times scenarios that I was assured would happen before inauguration day. I stand by my original statement. The world is rapidly ripening for destruction but is not yet ripe. There is still wheat to be gathered into fathers barn. Stop standing around on the edge of the field waiting for father to burn it and get out there and gather the wheat.

If I may be so bold, I see a fallacy in your argument. You are stating that since nothing bad happened, this proves that the world (or at least this nation) is not ripe for destruction. Your position presupposes that destruction will be poured out the moment a society is ripe in iniquity. The Amlicites weren't destroyed until around a year after Alma and Amulek took the surviving righteous to Sidon. The description of the Nephites in the books of Mormon and Moroni suggest the Nephites weren't completely destroyed until several years after they ripened in iniquity.

Yes, we have been blessed with a little more time to gather wheat and to prepare ourselves. But this does not prove that our society is not ripe in iniquity.

[mirkwood]

Not only that, but the main tool police use to take on demand is sting operations. If you want a prostitute but you're afraid of getting arrested, just find some 16 or 17 year old boy to go pick some girl up. If she turns out to be a cop, the kids can't be arrested.

Yes they can.

I really wonder sometimes where people get their information.

[freedomforall]

If anyone can figure out the time frame of the "little season" which occurs after the Millennium, then we can tell how many more years we have before the Lord reigns for a thousand years.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:111
111 And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.

D&C 43:31 (30–31)
30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come.
31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.


We know that we are now 17 years into the new century; we also know the Jesus came in the meridian of time...so there is only 4000 years from Christ to the end of the earth. The Millennium could occur anytime within the next 1,983 years. According to this we know that the little season is less than a thousand years. Who's to say that the little season isn't but only 700 years? This would give us another 283 +/- years until the Millennium.

D&C 39:21
21 For the time is at hand; the day or the hour no man knoweth; but it surely shall come

Matthew 24:36
36 ¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe (Noah )were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 ¶Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

D&C 101:11
11 Mine indignation is soon to be poured out without measure upon all nations; and this will I do when the cup of their iniquity is full.

Who's to say that the destruction ensues after the wheat is separated from the tares? We may have more years ahead than we think.

[markharr]

If anyone can figure out the time frame of the "little season" which occurs after the Millennium, then we can tell how many more years we have before the Lord reigns for a thousand years.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:111
111 And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.

D&C 43:31 (30–31)
30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come.
31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.


We know that we are now 17 years into the new century; we also know the Jesus came in the meridian of time...so there is only 4000 years from Christ to the end of the earth. The Millennium could occur anytime within the next 1,983 years. According to this we know that the little season is less than a thousand years. Who's to say that the little season isn't but only 700 years? This would give us another 283 +/- years until the Millennium.

D&C 39:21
21 For the time is at hand; the day or the hour no man knoweth; but it surely shall come

Matthew 24:36
36 ¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe (Noah )were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 ¶Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

D&C 101:11
11 Mine indignation is soon to be poured out without measure upon all nations; and this will I do when the cup of their iniquity is full.

Who's to say that the destruction ensues after the wheat is separated from the tares? We may have more years ahead than we think.

That and you would have to know how long a season is.

[freedomforall]

That and you would have to know how long a season is.

Each dispensation could be considered seasons, each in varying lengths. The one we're in now started around 1830. No one knows how long it will be, but I'm pretty certain it ends when Christ comes to reign.

From: https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 1?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Lord will not come until all things are fulfilled in preparation for His coming.

“The coming of the Son of Man never will be—never can be till the judgments spoken of for this hour are poured out: which judgments are commenced. Paul says, ‘Ye are the children of the light, and not of the darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief in the night.’ [See 1 Thessalonians 5:4–5.] It is not the design of the Almighty to come upon the earth and crush it and grind it to powder, but he will reveal it to His servants the prophets [see Amos 3:7].”13

“Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come [see Matthew 24:36; D&C 49:7]. Go and read the Scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers.”14

Regarding a man who claimed to have seen the sign of the Son of Man, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “He has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man, nor will any man, until after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood; for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the prophet saith, so it must be—‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets.’ (See Amos 3:7.) Therefore hear this, O earth: The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready.”15