Revelation to those not the Prophet

[DRC53]

I have been fairly quiet in this forum. But, I was reading something by Elder Bruce R. McConkie about revelation and gifts of the Spirit I wanted to share as food for thought.

"From these revelations we learn that there are no limitations placed upon any of us. Revelations are not reserved for a limited few or for those called to positions of importance in the Church. It is not position in the Church that confers spiritual gifts. It is not being a bishop, a stake president, or an apostle that makes revelation and salvation available. These are high and holy callings which open the door to the privilege of great service among men. But it is not a call to a special office that opens the windows of revelation to a truth seeker. Rather it is personal righteousness; it is keeping the commandments; it is seeking the Lord while he may be found.

"God is no respecter of persons. He will give revelation to me and to you on the same terms and conditions. I can see what Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw in the vision of the degrees of glory -- and so can you. I can entertain angels and see God, I can receive an outpouring of the gifts of the Spirit -- and so can you." (Conference Report, Oct. 1969, p. 82)

*http://www.gospeldoctrine.com/content/ether-4

This caught my eye because, too many times, I have heard people discount somebody's spiritual experiences simply because he or she was not the Prophet or an Apostle. Now, I get it, the revelation forming the direction of the Church at large comes through the living Prophet. I do not suggest otherwise. But, I do believe that we would be in grave error to discount a spiritual experience solely because it was revealed to someone other than the Prophet.

My mom, for example, had an experience, many years ago, in which it was revealed to her that a dear friend was pregnant but there was a serious health problem that endangered the friend and the child. My mom called up her friend who went to the doctor, discovered that she was pregnant, and that she did have a medical emergency that endangered her and her baby. Without immediate attention, there would have been serious problems.

Some who have received revelation may be in error in how they report the revelation, but such inexperience does not discount the fact that he or she received revelation. We should be careful how we judge and how we treat those who report such revelation. I'm not suggesting that we accept any reported revelation. I am suggesting that we not be so quick to dismiss because it didn't come through the Prophet and that we be kinder to our fellow brothers and sisters who report such spiritual experiences.

[paulrobots]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

Maybe you aren't refering to the JR types. If you mean folks on the forum, let them share what they want, I will judge whether or not it helps me.

[h_p]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Robin Hood]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

[zionminded]

Nephi received revelation for Lehis family how to build the boat, find food and more, while his father Lehi was acting patriarch.

[Robin Hood]

Nephi received revelation for Lehis family how to build the boat, find food and more, while his father Lehi was acting patriarch.

Actually, Nephi asked his father where he needed to go to find food.

[Mark]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zionminded]

Nephi received revelation for Lehis family how to build the boat, find food and more, while his father Lehi was acting patriarch.

Actually, Nephi asked his father where he needed to go to find food.

Yes thats true, thank you.

[FTC]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its not too hard to figure things out. "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22
Wouldn't that be the day when a general authority walks into conference, apologizing for his ragged suit that he picked up at the thrift store, because he actually did sell all that he had? Oh, and that he brought all those poor to general conference with him.

[Robin Hood]

Did your mom try to sell any books or charge people to attend one of her seminars?

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not ridiculous at all.
They're teaching the gospel for money.
That is priestcraft pure and simple.

[gclayjr]

If someone is spiritual enough to receive a direct revelation from God, then they spiritual enough to know and follow the context of that revelation. I believe that there are many humble [people who have had very detailed revelations concerning the end of times and many other things that the Lord has not chosen to reveal to his people generally through his anointed prophets at this time.

We will never know about them, because they are following God's admonition to keep it personal and not share it with other than family and maybe a few friends.

Therefor, If one is prideful enough to try and broadcast such things, and make themselves the center of attention, you can be sure that they are NOT one of these humble people, and you can so dismiss their "revelations" as either simple personal pride or being from Satan.

Regards,

George Clay

[BTH&T]

It's not ridiculous at all.
They're teaching the gospel for money.
That is priestcraft pure and simple.

I have to disagree.

Sharing ones experiences, opinions, personal thoughts in a book is not "priest-craft".
Is it required to buy something in return for spiritual blessings?
Then it would be, a this for a that type exchange.

As with many of the topics here, negativity abounds.

Where is the compassion, understanding, love and turning the other cheek?

If you don't agree with someone don't buy their stuff, but don't be so quick to condemn.

[brianj]

Its not too hard to figure things out. "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22
Wouldn't that be the day when a general authority walks into conference, apologizing for his ragged suit that he picked up at the thrift store, because he actually did sell all that he had? Oh, and that he brought all those poor to general conference with him.

I have never heard anybody in this church claim that a rich person should give everything away and live in poverty. And the fact that one specific individual was told to sell all he has doesn't mean that is a blanket requirement for every follower.

I will cherish my memory of Elder Holland's tribute to President Monson from October 2014: "In that regard, I pay a personal tribute to President Thomas Spencer Monson. I have been blessed by an association with this man for 47 years now, and the image of him I will cherish until I die is of him flying home from then–economically devastated East Germany in his house slippers because he had given away not only his second suit and his extra shirts but the very shoes from off his feet." If coming home in pajamas and barefoot is the only thing that would have satisfied you, you have my condolences.

[Mark]

You mean like this: https://deseretbook.com/t/books/general-authority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not ridiculous at all.
They're teaching the gospel for money.
That is priestcraft pure and simple.

You are accusing most every General Authority we in the church sustain as Prophets Seers and Revelators who has written a book as having practiced priestcraft. That is quite an accusation Bishop. Back it up or you are becoming an accuser of the Brethren.

“Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Nephi 26:29).

Show us where these Prophets are setting themselves to become a light unto the world in order to get gain and praise of the world and that they are not seeking the welfare of zion. If you cant do so then cease being a public accuser.

[Robin Hood]

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not ridiculous at all.
They're teaching the gospel for money.
That is priestcraft pure and simple.

You are accusing most every General Authority we in the church sustain as Prophets Seers and Revelators who has written a book as having practiced priestcraft. That is quite an accusation Bishop. Back it up or you are becoming an accuser of the Brethren.

“Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Nephi 26:29).

Show us where these Prophets are setting themselves to become a light unto the world in order to get gain and praise of the world and that they are not seeking the welfare of zion. If you cant do so then cease being a public accuser.

Hey just calm down mate.
I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe the same way as me.
It came up in conversation and that's it.
I do believe that it is wrong to receive payment or profit from teaching the gospel, and that that constitutes a form of priestcraft. And when all things are considered, that is what is going on here.
Those GA's could easily make their teachings available for free, but they don't.
Maybe they are badly advised.

But as far as I'm concerned it's priestcraft and I won't buy such books.
If you want to buy them...... be my guest.

[BTH&T]

Hey just calm down mate.
I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe the same way as me.
It came up in conversation and that's it.
I do believe that it is wrong to receive payment or profit from teaching the gospel, and that that constitutes a form of priestcraft. And when all things are considered, that is what is going on here.
Those GA's could easily make their teachings available for free, but they don't.
Maybe they are badly advised.

But as far as I'm concerned it's priestcraft and I won't buy such books.
If you want to buy them...... be my guest.

Calm down on your part as well, each are entitled to their opinion.

GA's and other leaders do teach freely. General and area conferences are free of charge, Sunday worship services as well.
These are where the Gospel is preached.

There is not some "special sauce" in peoples writings (GA's included).
We are not talking scripture here, just someone sharing thoughts. How do you construe that into Priest-craft?

As is with so many on this forum, overly critical interpretations of the Church and Gospel. So many things we each need to work on.
Being critical for sharing thoughts and feelings in book format hardly worth the time and negativity in my opinion.

[letsjet]

A man "who sets himself up to be a light to the world" and sells his ideas for money is guilty of priestcraft.

However, if a "man is called of God, as was Aaron" and publishes a book for profit I don't see that as priestcraft.

For example, Sheri Dew wrote a biography about Ezra Taft Benson. Thanks to her book, I learned things about this great man that I would not have known. I paid money for the book and felt like it was money well spent. Sister Dew made a profit, but just to compensate her for her time.

The Ensign costs money. Is the Ensign scripture or is it a product of priestcraft?

[BTH&T]

A man "who sets himself up to be a light to the world" and sells his ideas for money is guilty of priestcraft.

However, if a "man is called of God, as was Aaron" and publishes a book for profit I don't see that as priestcraft.

For example, Sheri Dew wrote a biography about Ezra Taft Benson. Thanks to her book, I learned things about this great man that I would not have known. I paid money for the book and felt like it was money well spent. Sister Dew made a profit, but just to compensate her for her time.

The Ensign costs money. Is the Ensign scripture or is it a product of priestcraft?

Agreed on if one "sets them self up as a light" and preaching the Gospel for money, then it fits.
Sharing ones testimony or sharing experiences is overly criticle.

Ensign is free online, printed form is just covering costs of printing and distribution.

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

Is a CES teacher engaged in Priestcraft?... They receive a salary for their work.

There is a seminary manual lesson that directly deals with your concerns:

https://www.lds.org/manual/teaching-sem ... t?lang=eng

That is a great key for us. Where is our heart? If it is for the welfare of Zion and its youth, I think we are in good shape.

The desire to get gain can be manifest in our regular duties and our salary. It can also be manifest with outside related interests such as publishing or continuing education. I ask a question: Can a person receive a salary in CES and not be involved in priestcraft? Yes, definitely. Can a person publish, get pay for continuing education, or take advantage of other opportunities and not be involved in priestcraft? Yes, they can. It is a matter of the heart. What is the motivation? What President Kimball said is a key in this area. When our hearts are set on money, it clouds our view and leads to bad decisions.

“‘Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion’ (2 Nephi 26:29).

“Teachers who are most popular—and therefore most effective—have a special susceptibility to this form of priestcraft. If they are not careful, their strength can become their spiritual downfall. They can become like Almon Babbitt, with whom the Lord was not well pleased because, as the revelation states,

“‘He aspireth to establish his counsel instead of the counsel which I have ordained, even that of the Presidency of my Church; and he setteth up a golden calf for the worship of my people’ (D&C 124:84)” (“Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall,” Brigham Young University 1991–92 Devotional and Fireside Speeches [1992], 111).

Regards,

George Clay

[Dlight]

Since this conversation is changed to talking about Priestcraft, I thought this verse might be helpful in clarifying the definition:

3 And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people.

Alma was also accused of priestcraft by Korihor and Almas was response was perfect. I feel these are the things we should take into account.

32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.
33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.
34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?
35 Then why sayest thou that we preach unto this people to get gain, when thou, of thyself, knowest that we receive no gain? And now, believest thou that we deceive this people, that causes such joy in their hearts?

[Robin Hood]

The Ensign costs money. Is the Ensign scripture or is it a product of priestcraft?

I download for free.
Does anybody pay for this nowadays?

Anyhow, the cost of the Ensign simply covers production costs, if that.

No one is making money from it.

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood,

Is a CES teacher engaged in Priestcraft?

If you're referring to the likes of Brad Wilcox and John Bytheway, then yes.

[Mindfields]

If the other guys do it it's wrong. If our guys do it it's not only okay but condoned by God himself. Barf

[Obrien]

Its not too hard to figure things out. "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22
Wouldn't that be the day when a general authority walks into conference, apologizing for his ragged suit that he picked up at the thrift store, because he actually did sell all that he had? Oh, and that he brought all those poor to general conference with him.

I have never heard anybody in this church claim that a rich person should give everything away and live in poverty. And the fact that one specific individual was told to sell all he has doesn't mean that is a blanket requirement for every follower.

I will cherish my memory of Elder Holland's tribute to President Monson from October 2014: "In that regard, I pay a personal tribute to President Thomas Spencer Monson. I have been blessed by an association with this man for 47 years now, and the image of him I will cherish until I die is of him flying home from then–economically devastated East Germany in his house slippers because he had given away not only his second suit and his extra shirts but the very shoes from off his feet." If coming home in pajamas and barefoot is the only thing that would have satisfied you, you have my condolences.

Quite an interesting observation, but probably not as you intended.

[Obrien]

Thank you for pointing this out.
I have long believed that GA's who write and sell books are involved in priestcraft.
As a point of principle I never buy such books.

That is utterly ridiculous. Unless you know the heart and mind of the brother or sister who writes and publishes a religious based book for others to read and learn from you cant possibly accurately accuse them of priestcraft. Are they writing the book for personal gain and self aggrandizement to set themselves up as a light unto the world? How could you possible know that unless you were privy to their innermost thoughts and intents? Read this article before throwing around the term accusingly at any of the Brethren.

https://www.families.com/blog/what-is-priestcraft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not ridiculous at all.
They're teaching the gospel for money.
That is priestcraft pure and simple.

You are accusing most every General Authority we in the church sustain as Prophets Seers and Revelators who has written a book as having practiced priestcraft. That is quite an accusation Bishop. Back it up or you are becoming an accuser of the Brethren.

“Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Nephi 26:29).

Show us where these Prophets are setting themselves to become a light unto the world in order to get gain and praise of the world and that they are not seeking tyhe welfare of zion. If you cant do so then cease being a public accuser.

Mark - a message, specifically for you:
2 Nephi 9:32