The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
e-eye2.0
captain of 100
Posts: 454

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by e-eye2.0 »

Robin Hood wrote:Let's just say we are very likely to be closer to the second coming today than we were yesterday.
That is all we can say.
Almost anything else is speculation at best.
Though I do agree to a point as this is a day by day process, I think the tone and the warnings of the prophets in the recent years point to this happening sooner than later. The poroblems is that you have a lot of people that think it's tomorrow when it is possible we could have another 10,20 40 years.

I have had a few people who have been of the attitude of "not in my life time" recently be completely surprised about the world crumbling around them and how quickly it has happened.

User avatar
kittycat51
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1791
Location: Looking for Zion

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by kittycat51 »

Awesome quote from President Benson and again emulated by President Monson. I have an older brother who is near 60. At a seminary fireside in the early 1970's President Harold B. Lee looked over the crowd and pointed and proclaimed that these youth would live to see the 2nd coming.

EmmaLee
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10884

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by EmmaLee »

My dad was born in 1919 (same year A&W root beer was born), and he was told the exact same things in his youth and young adulthood in Mesa by apostles and prophets. As did my mom. They told the youth the same things almost 100 years ago that they tell our youth today (and I have 4 generations of patriarchal blessings to prove it). Dad died in 2005, mom in 2012 - both were faithful to their covenants till their last breath. We will all "live" to see the 2nd Coming - some will see it in their physical bodies, some in their spiritual bodies - but we will all live to see it.

Talon65
captain of 10
Posts: 47

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Talon65 »

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
LDS Physician wrote:Seeking a little help from all of you who have it down better than I do.

I've read quite a bit (both LDS and non-LDS) on estimated timing of the second coming and have a few questions in regards to the tribulation period which precedes it.

The Tribulation period is three and one half years before the coming of the Messiah. There is not one scriptural account of it being seven years, however there are four accounts that say three and one half years - Time, times and a half of time, forty two months, and one thousand two hundred and sixty days.


One theory which I've seen several times is that the second coming will occur sometime around 2033 +/- years due to the unknown date of the Savior's birth. This seems reasonable with what we know about dispensation lengths, etc.

As we do not know the year when the Messiah was born... though it most likely was 6 BC, we also do not know how long His ministry was, it was three to six years, with tradition being that it was only three years! Also, with such unknowns, we do not know what year He was crucified in, though it most likely was 33 AD. There is no set length for Dispensations, and it is a fault tradition if one is held for it is easily proven that they very greatly in length.

What I'm confused about is how long the period of tribulation is prior to this date.

See above about the Tribulation length. I am not endorsing your date listed! For He could come 2000 years from the start of His Ministry in the flesh, just as easy as He could come 2000 years from His death in the flesh! This is something only personal revelation can answer! It is not found in the scriptures or provable by ones wisdom!

Is it seven years of tribulation?

No, that is believed by many Christians, but it is not doctrinal or scriptural.

Is 2033 the target date for his return or is 2033 the start of the tribulation periods?

The Messiah will have already returned and redeemed the Elect by a hand full of years prior to that date.

Additionally, I'm confused about the space of time between the (capitalized) Second Coming and his appearance at the Mount of Olives - the appearance where he rescues the Jewish people who remain from the Battle of Armageddon.

The Two Witnesses and the Elect will be caught up (ruptured) in His coming in the clouds. Then He will come down and place His feet upon the Mount of Olives and a Great Earthquake (Six Seal will come. 7000 in the city of Jerusalem will die, Rome (Mystery Babylon) will be destroyed, and the earth will reel to and fro. Then will come the great supper of our G_d.

Do any of you have any insight into these events and their timing?

From a post I posted on another thread:

The End Time is almost upon us now...
As for Trumpets, Seals, and Vials, the key to understanding them is Seals are the long story leading up to the Day of the Lord, the Trumpets are the story leading up to the Day of the Lord, and the Vials or Bowls are the short story leading up to the Day of the Lord. Of course the Thunders or Voices is the very short story given on the Day of the Lord.

Put another way, the Seals covers Millennia, the Trumpets covers centuries, the Vials covers days, and the voices cover hours. For their is an appointed time: a year, a month, a day and a hour.

I will be more specific without giving the evidences which would take a whole day to share, and for such in depth volumes of information would be longer then yahoo allows in a email.

Seals: The four main powers in the earth, art the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
1: White Horse, Catholicism; 2: Red Horse, Communism; 3: Black Horse, Capitalism; 4: Green Horse, Islamism; 5: The slain Saints under the Altar (from the Christian Era) asking how long oh Lord. They art told, wait until the end time Saints are thus tested; 6: Describe the Day of the Lord; & 7: Silence in heaven that will come at the end of the Millennial realm.

Trumpets: The 7th Seal reveals the 7 Angels with seven trumpets ready to sound them.
1: World War I; 2: World War II; 3: Chernobyl; 4: Slowing down of Time; 5: Saddam and the Gulf War; 6:World War III; 7: The Day of the Lord.

Vials: Of the Wrath of God, that art poured out at the time of the battle of Armageddon.
1: foul and painful sores on those who took the Mark of the Beast; 2: the seas and the oceans become blood; 3: rivers and the remaining sources of water turn to blood and the Angel praises the great day of G_d Almighty 4: the sun causes a major heatwave to scorch the planet with fire, and the wicked refuse to repent while they blaspheme the name of G_d great earthquake, 5: thick darkness overwhelms the kingdom of the beast, the wicked continue to defame the name of G_d and refusing to repent and glorify G_d; 6: great river Euphrates dries up so that the kings of the east might cross to be prepared to battle (of Armageddon). These Kings are Russia, Three unclean spirits with the appearance of frogs come out of the mouths of the beast and the false prophet; 7: a global earthquake destroys Rome. Every mountain and island are removed from their foundations. Giant hailstones weighing nearly 100 pounds plummet the arms gathered to battle Yesrael, and the wicked's hatred of G_d intensifies while they continue to curse G_d. The Day of the Lord has come!

The 6th Seal is the same event as the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Vial, for there is only one great Earthquake that moves the earth out of its orbit (the earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard - Isaiah 24:20 KJV).

Sincerely,

LDS Physician
The concept that " the Seals covers Millennia, the Trumpets covers centuries, the Vials covers days, and the voices cover hours" is a huge eye opener to me personally, it has made me look deeper/closer at these markers to try to understand them better - thank you!

davedan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3064
Location: Augusta, GA
Contact:

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by davedan »

LDS Physician wrote:
davedan wrote:I agree not to focus on the exact date of the Second Coming. Why? 1. Scripture and our Apostles have said "No man knoweth". 2. It may be a "when you build it (Zion), He will come" scenario. 3. Once the New Jerusalem is established, Christ will dwell among us and we are effectively "home free". 4. I am more interested in timing of events like: beginning of Tribulation (5th Trumpet), and date of establishment of New Jerusalem, Armageddon (6th Trumpet), Temple in Jerusalem, etc. 5. After the Tribulation events, the conversion of the Jews, there is a period when the gospel will go to the "heathen nations".


"for they shall see eye to eye (2020?), when the Lord shall bring again Zion." Isa 52:8

"And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;" D&C 88:95 (Opening 7th seal April 2000, 1/2 hour = 20.8 yrs?)

"And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them." D&C 45:54


There is some disagreement on this forum about "seals" and which seal we are in. We have some "6th-sealers" and some "7th-sealers". 6th-sealers are looking for an EQ, 7th-sealers just consider every 1000 years a seal. When President Hinkley said that April 2000 Conference marked 2000 years since Christ's birth, some concluded "hey, 7th seal". Now we are in the "1/2 hour of silence" period.

The time period when Christ "like a sheep before the shears is dumb, so he opened not his mouth" and we see the wicked destroy America like Christ allowed the wicked to crucify Him knowing He would resurrect. We know the righteous will resurrect America.
Do you know of any good sources or summaries for the definitions of "seals" and "trumpets", etc.?

Seals:

D&C 77:7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

Trumpets:

D&C 77: 12 Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming.

13 Q. When are the things to be accomplished, which are written in the 9th chapter of Revelation?
A. They are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal, before the coming of Christ.

davedan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3064
Location: Augusta, GA
Contact:

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by davedan »

There is a parallel with the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation and the Fall of Jericho. The 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation are what the wicked do to the world. During the 7th Trumpet, God unleashes the 7 Vials of wrath upon the wicked. In this life we will have tribulation but we are not appointed unto wrath. Hopefully the righteous will be gathered safely in New Jerusalem and Jerusalem before the Wrath begins.

President Monson said several years ago in an Ensign article that if we in America did not observe the law of chastity and Word of Wisdom that we would lose our freedom as past Democracies of Rome and Greece.

Rome fell because the Silk Road brought in opium and hashish, and immorality of Pompeii spread throughout the empire. Illicit drugs and immorality creates poverty via increased idle poor and illegitimate poor. False religion fails in its job to deliver welfare and teach virtue (James 1:27 = it religion job to do welfare and not the state). The Ceasars came to power promising social justice and to solve the poverty problem via "free bread and circus". Rome had a trade deficit with China. "King-men" elite who really control the emperor/king make money playing middle men and exploiting poor producing nations, paying them pennies, and selling goods to richer, corrupt, consuming nations. (Phoenicians, Venetian Black Nobility, East India Trade Company, Walmart). Rome had to continually expand to bring in tribute to provide gold to supply economy with liquidity. Rome hired Barbarian Foeterati to supply Roman legions with men. When Rome cut benefits to Barbarian Foeterati, there was an insurrection and the Barbarians assassinated Romulus Augustus and divided the empire.

Trumpets of Rome:
1. Alaric the Visigoth and the Goths attack by land. (curse of land)
2. Gaiseric and the Vandals attack by sea. (curse of sea)
3. Attila the Hun's attack by rivers. (curse of rivers)
4. insurrection of German Barbarian Foeterati led by Odoacer. (sun, moon, stars)
5. rise of the Arab Muslims (locusts = Arab in Hebrew)
6. Ottoman Turks destroy Constantinople
7. 7 vials of wrath = judgments and plagues of the Dark Ages

User avatar
Kingdom of ZION
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1939

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Talon65 wrote:
Kingdom of ZION wrote:The 6th Seal is the same event as the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Vial, for there is only one great Earthquake that moves the earth out of its orbit (the earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard - Isaiah 24:20 KJV).

6th Seal: Revelation 6 (KJV)
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

7th Seal: Revelation 8 (KJV) [This Seal reveals the final event 1/2 hr of Silence (that will happen at the end of the MIllennium), and then seems to summarize the Six Seal events.]
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7th Trumpet: Revelation 11 (KJV)
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded [his Trumpet]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

7th Vial: Revelation 16 (KJV)
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

All 7 Thunders/Voices: Revelation 10 (KJV)

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. [yet we have a few recorded accounts of the voices utterances.]
The concept that " the Seals covers Millennia, the Trumpets covers centuries, the Vials covers days, and the Thunders/Voices cover hours" is a huge eye opener to me personally, it has made me look deeper/closer at these markers to try to understand them better - thank you!
You are very welcome...

I have quote the 6th and 7th Seals, the 7th Trumpet, the 7th Vial and what the 7 Voices or Thunders are (from the King James Version) so you can easily see the pattern I am talking about.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by onefour1 »

From History of the Church on the 6th day of April of 1833, Joseph Smith says,
"The day was spent in a very agreeable manner, in giving and receiving knowledge which appertained to this last kingdom - it being just 1800 years since the Savior laid down His life that men might have everlasting life, and only three years since the Church had come out of the wilderness, preparatory for the last dispensation." History of the Church, vol 1, pg 337.

This quote places the death of Jesus Christ in the year 33 A.D.

I have often wondered what the Lord meant by the phrase "the meridian of time". My personal belief is that it applies to the middle seal or the 4th thousand year period of the earth's temporal existence since it is the middle time. The scriptures are clear that the Lord came in the meridian of time but the following verse tells me that he also died in the meridian of time.

Moses 7:45-46
45 And it came to pass that Enoch looked; and from Noah, he beheld all the families of the earth; and he cried unto the Lord, saying: When shall the day of the Lord come? When shall the blood of the Righteous be shed, that all they that mourn may be sanctified and have eternal life?
46 And the Lord said: It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance.

But when we read about the opening of the 5th seal it says:

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

History has born out that the Apostles of the Lord, excepting John, were slain for the word of God. But this seems to have occurred in the 5th seal. Could it be that Jesus came at the very end of the 4th seal and when the 5th seal opens we see his Apostles become martyrs for the word of God? If the 4000th year of this earth's temporal existence was the year of our Lord's death and resurrection, would not this be an acceptable year of the Lord? Would it not be a year of great Jubilee? It all seems to match up with the Jubilee being celebrated every 50 years and the year 4000 being a multiple of 50. It was a year of the freeing of the captives from sin. A great year of restoration from sin to righteousness. A perfect Jubilee.

If 33 AD was the last year of the 4th seal, this would put the end of the fifth seal at 1033 and the end of the sixth seal at 2033. Prophecies of the sixth seal, in my estimation, have not yet occurred. For example,

Revelation 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

D&C 88:84-94
84 Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
85 That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
86 Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.
91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men’s hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.
92 And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.
94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

The next verse in section 88 is an indication of the 7th seal since it coincides with Revelation 8:1

D&C 88:95
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

Revelation 8:1
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

During the 6th seal we are to go among the Gentiles for the last time. Or, in other words, until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. What will occur when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled?

The Gospel would then go unto the house of Israel and they would be gathered.

D&C 45:24-25
24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations;
25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Before the gathering of the lost 10 tribes, Zion will be established and the city of New Jerusalem will be built.

3 Nephi 21:11-29
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.
14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;
15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;
16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;
17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;
18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.
19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.
20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;
21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.
26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.
27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.
28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.
29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.

If I'm reading things correctly, a lot will need to occur within the next 17 years. Based on the political climate, I think we are witnessing a dividing of the wheat and the tares.

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by onefour1 »

Is it a reasonable inference that the gathering of the Lost 10 tribes would need to be underway before 12000 from each tribe are selected to be among the 144,000? If so, then the gathering of the Lost tribes would need to start during the 6th seal since the choosing of the 144,000 is a sixth seal event.

D&C 77:10-11
10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

See also https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/7?lang=eng
Last edited by onefour1 on February 3rd, 2017, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

kittycat51 wrote:Awesome quote from President Benson and again emulated by President Monson. I have an older brother who is near 60. At a seminary fireside in the early 1970's President Harold B. Lee looked over the crowd and pointed and proclaimed that these youth would live to see the 2nd coming.


WOah, woah, woah... Slow ya role. The Second Coming could be in 72-84 years so I think he'll (an the youth) be dead by then...

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

Spaced_Out wrote:2033 is the start of the 7th seal. The second coming occurs shortly after the 7th seal is opened - hence the exact time of the second coming is impossible to tell.
Prior to 2033 there need to be meteor showers, earthquakes, the cleansing and separation of the wheat and tears, establishment of Zion the New Jerusalem, return of the lost tribes, the calling of the 144,000 and final gathering, return of the city of Enoch etc... For all this to occur in the remaining 17 years is a big ask. So expect things to start very soon.


Don't expect too soon... God is playing the long game with the world. It can't be in 2033. The American economy would've collapsed already and the U.S. would have been in its 2nd Civil War.

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

Robin Hood wrote:
Sunain wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.
At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.
And why should any of that make any difference.
People living in 1800AD could well have said the same about today if they had seen it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Where do the scriptures or the prophets say that Christ must return before we invent more powerful telescopes or lesrn to fly to Jupiter really fast?
Brigham Young actually claimed the millenium had already started back in the 1850's!

Well, in 231 7 AD we'll probably have lamost 1 billion people living on Mars. Not. Gonna. Happen...

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

I plan on making my family travel to Missouri with me in 2033.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by brianj »

Zion2080 wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:Awesome quote from President Benson and again emulated by President Monson. I have an older brother who is near 60. At a seminary fireside in the early 1970's President Harold B. Lee looked over the crowd and pointed and proclaimed that these youth would live to see the 2nd coming.


WOah, woah, woah... Slow ya role. The Second Coming could be in 72-84 years so I think he'll (an the youth) be dead by then...

This will probably be a mistake to ask, but...

What statement from a General Authority convinces you the Second Coming could be in 72-84 years, or 2089-2101?

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

brianj wrote:
Zion2080 wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:Awesome quote from President Benson and again emulated by President Monson. I have an older brother who is near 60. At a seminary fireside in the early 1970's President Harold B. Lee looked over the crowd and pointed and proclaimed that these youth would live to see the 2nd coming.


WOah, woah, woah... Slow ya role. The Second Coming could be in 72-84 years so I think he'll (an the youth) be dead by then...

This will probably be a mistake to ask, but...

What statement from a General Authority convinces you the Second Coming could be in 72-84 years, or 2089-2101?

Why ask?

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by brianj »

Nothing I have ever seen from a general authority places the Second Coming that far into the future. And I have known people, some older than me, who have statements in their patriarchal blessings indicating they will see the Second Coming in mortality. So I wonder where your time frame comes from.

Zion2080
captain of 100
Posts: 197

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Zion2080 »

brianj wrote:Nothing I have ever seen from a general authority places the Second Coming that far into the future. And I have known people, some older than me, who have statements in their patriarchal blessings indicating they will see the Second Coming in mortality. So I wonder where your time frame comes from.


I'm just saying that it could be but why would be in 300-400 years?

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Trumps policies will cause 7 years of prosperity, then the 7 years of destruction/tribulation leading up to 2031.

There are many things that demonstrate the 2000 year period such as the 2 cents paid by the Good Samaritan.

See my 0030, 1830, 2030 thread for more examples and info on the subject.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by brianj »

Zion2080 wrote:
brianj wrote:Nothing I have ever seen from a general authority places the Second Coming that far into the future. And I have known people, some older than me, who have statements in their patriarchal blessings indicating they will see the Second Coming in mortality. So I wonder where your time frame comes from.
I'm just saying that it could be but why would be in 300-400 years?
Considering how rapidly sin is spreading I can't believe it is 50 years or more away. I believe the Second Coming is within 20 years, and a 10 year or shorter timeline wouldn't surprise me.

The Book of Mormon makes it clear that when a majority of the people choose iniquity, the population is ripe for destruction. I believe that we are already in a situation where a majority of the North American population chooses iniquity. Many of them make this choice because they really do support iniquity but many others are supporting iniquity because they are afraid of expressing support for positions that are politically unpopular.

Here's just one example: people are so afraid of what government is doing, and might do, to the family. Marriage has been redefined to legalize depravity, but that isn't enough for the left and people have every right to be afraid. But while people focus on the government they don't see what else is going on. Look into divorce parties. Worldly women think no longer see marriage as family, but a comfortable relationship until they are ready for a payday. Then they take nmen to the most sexist organizations in the world - family courts - where they will lose most of their possessions and much of their income for many years to come. If a man doesn't pay his alimony or child support he's likely to spend time in jail. If a woman refuses to let her ex husband have his children for court ordered visitation, the woman gets *another* verbal warning. And women throw parties to celebrate their divorce and their destruction of family (around 70% of divorces are filed by women) often with cakes showing a bride murdering a groom. While so many Christians worry about government destroying the family, greeed and selfishness are doing more damage than most people comprehend.

I have to post this anonymously, on an anonomyous and obscure forum, because if my beliefs about homosexuality and feminism were known I would be blacklisted by employers in this region for the crime of having and expressing beliefs they don't approve of.

Matchmaker
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2266

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by Matchmaker »

BeNotDeceived wrote:Trumps policies will cause 7 years of prosperity, then the 7 years of destruction/tribulation leading up to 2031.

There are many things that demonstrate the 2000 year period such as the 2 cents paid by the Good Samaritan.

See my 0030, 1830, 2030 thread for more examples and info on the subject.
I believe the US and Israel are going to experience a greater period of prosperity under Trump also. We may have to go through a short destructive WW3 in order to get there, but we will see it eventually.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by brianj »

Without repentance, any prosperity we see will be fleeting.

If there is one thing about the Trump presidency that I think is certain, it is that he will be relying on his own intellect and that of his advisers rather than on inspiration. This reminds me of the admonition to trust not in the arm of flesh.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by freedomforall »

brianj wrote:Without repentance, any prosperity we see will be fleeting.

If there is one thing about the Trump presidency that I think is certain, it is that he will be relying on his own intellect and that of his advisers rather than on inspiration. This reminds me of the admonition to trust not in the arm of flesh.
Hundreds of prayers by the righteous in behalf of Trump wouldn't hurt, would it? Or would God ignore righteous prayers because they are being offered by the arm of flesh?

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by brianj »

freedomforall wrote:
brianj wrote:Without repentance, any prosperity we see will be fleeting.

If there is one thing about the Trump presidency that I think is certain, it is that he will be relying on his own intellect and that of his advisers rather than on inspiration. This reminds me of the admonition to trust not in the arm of flesh.
Hundreds of prayers by the righteous in behalf of Trump wouldn't hurt, would it? Or would God ignore righteous prayers because they are being offered by the arm of flesh?
Prayers don't come from the arm of flesh; they come from our spirits. Prayers certainly won't hurt, but the things can't get better if people use their free agency to choose evil. The best we can hope for is what happened to the Jaredites and Nephites. Since people won't willingly humble themselves I feel like a lot of my prayers for my country are without faith.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by freedomforall »

brianj wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
brianj wrote:Without repentance, any prosperity we see will be fleeting.

If there is one thing about the Trump presidency that I think is certain, it is that he will be relying on his own intellect and that of his advisers rather than on inspiration. This reminds me of the admonition to trust not in the arm of flesh.
Hundreds of prayers by the righteous in behalf of Trump wouldn't hurt, would it? Or would God ignore righteous prayers because they are being offered by the arm of flesh?
Prayers don't come from the arm of flesh; they come from our spirits. Prayers certainly won't hurt, but the things can't get better if people use their free agency to choose evil. The best we can hope for is what happened to the Jaredites and Nephites. Since people won't willingly humble themselves I feel like a lot of my prayers for my country are without faith.
If the faith of one man can stop the sun or move a mountain, then one man's faith in prayer should contain some dominating power or influence. Likewise, a lot of prayers from many people having faith ought have that same dominating power or influence.

Sun:

Josh. 10:12 (12–13)
12 ¶Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

Post by freedomforall »

The Second Coming and the Millennium

The Lord will not come until all things are fulfilled in preparation for His coming.

Within Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2011), 248–60 we read:
“The coming of the Son of Man never will be—never can be till the judgments spoken of for this hour are poured out: which judgments are commenced. Paul says, ‘Ye are the children of the light, and not of the darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief in the night.’ [See 1 Thessalonians 5:4–5.] It is not the design of the Almighty to come upon the earth and crush it and grind it to powder, but he will reveal it to His servants the prophets [see Amos 3:7].”13

“Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come [see Matthew 24:36; D&C 49:7]. Go and read the Scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers.”14

Regarding a man who claimed to have seen the sign of the Son of Man, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “He has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man, nor will any man, until after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood; for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the prophet saith, so it must be—‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets.’ (See Amos 3:7.) Therefore hear this, O earth: The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready.”15

Post Reply