The Second Coming + Tribulations: Timing?

[LDS Physician]

Seeking a little help from all of you who have it down better than I do.

I've read quite a bit (both LDS and non-LDS) on estimated timing of the second coming and have a few questions in regards to the tribulation period which precedes it.

One theory which I've seen several times is that the second coming will occur sometime around 2033 +/- years due to the unknown date of the Savior's birth. This seems reasonable with what we know about dispensation lengths, etc.

What I'm confused about is how long the period of tribulation is prior to this date. Is it seven years of tribulation? Is 2033 the target date for his return or is 2033 the start of the tribulation periods?

Additionally, I'm confused about the space of time between the (capitalized) Second Coming and his appearance at the Mount of Olives - the appearance where he rescues the Jewish people who remain from the Battle of Armageddon.

Do any of you have any insight into these events and their timing?

Sincerely,

LDS Physician

[Bronco73idi]

We have a lot to do before his coming. Read Charles Evans complete dream, to me it's a well written version of this time period.

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[Spaced_Out]

2033 is the start of the 7th seal. The second coming occurs shortly after the 7th seal is opened - hence the exact time of the second coming is impossible to tell.
Prior to 2033 there need to be meteor showers, earthquakes, the cleansing and separation of the wheat and tears, establishment of Zion the New Jerusalem, return of the lost tribes, the calling of the 144,000 and final gathering, return of the city of Enoch etc... For all this to occur in the remaining 17 years is a big ask. So expect things to start very soon.

[BeNotDeceived]

7 years of harvest followed by 7 years of devastation are set to commence in a few months per my 0030 thread. The 2030 book provides a lot of good info, but looks to be off by one year. The week of gc in the spring is based on my Angel of Light thread in the private region of the site. Four appearances of the Savior are foretold so don't expect everything at once. Prosperity will be great, but devastation draws near.

[Ann]

I think it would be unwise to try to put a date to it. In my experience, timing is a little fluid and can hang you up. It has me. When everything is in place, when certain things that have to happen have happened, and when Heavenly Father is good and ready, then things will happen. Not a moment before. I think that we have not been given dates for a reason. We just need to be prepared, now. And if we aren't, be working on it, now.

While temporal preparedness is super important, I also believe it is more important to be spiritually prepared. My brother died at 22 years old not long ago. It was so unexpected, he was so young. My point is, we don't know when we will be called home, so we better be ready at all times whether it is now, during the hard tribulations or whenever it is. Be worthy to die at all times. Get temporally prepared as best you can. Don't wait.

It may be a while yet before the hard things hit, it may be coming on gradually now with us not really recognizing it. Just be ready whenever it is. Whatever His timing, we need to be ready for it. We've had plenty of warning. Don't worry about timing, just do what you need to do now.

[davedan]

I agree not to focus on the exact date of the Second Coming. Why? 1. Scripture and our Apostles have said "No man knoweth". 2. It may be a "when you build it (Zion), He will come" scenario. 3. Once the New Jerusalem is established, Christ will dwell among us and we are effectively "home free". 4. I am more interested in timing of events like: beginning of Tribulation (5th Trumpet), and date of establishment of New Jerusalem, Armageddon (6th Trumpet), Temple in Jerusalem, etc. 5. After the Tribulation events, the conversion of the Jews, there is a period when the gospel will go to the "heathen nations".


"for they shall see eye to eye (2020?), when the Lord shall bring again Zion." Isa 52:8

"And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;" D&C 88:95 (Opening 7th seal April 2000, 1/2 hour = 20.8 yrs?)

"And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them." D&C 45:54


There is some disagreement on this forum about "seals" and which seal we are in. We have some "6th-sealers" and some "7th-sealers". 6th-sealers are looking for an EQ, 7th-sealers just consider every 1000 years a seal. When President Hinkley said that April 2000 Conference marked 2000 years since Christ's birth, some concluded "hey, 7th seal". Now we are in the "1/2 hour of silence" period.

The time period when Christ "like a sheep before the shears is dumb, so he opened not his mouth" and we see the wicked destroy America like Christ allowed the wicked to crucify Him knowing He would resurrect. We know the righteous will resurrect America.

[ebenezerarise]

I would like it to be tomorrow. But does it really matter to those who are striving?

[shadow]

There is some disagreement on this forum about "seals" and which seal we are in. We have some "6th-sealers" and some "7th-sealers". 6th-sealers are looking for an EQ, 7th-sealers just consider every 1000 years a seal. When President Hinkley said that April 2000 Conference marked 2000 years since Christ's birth, some concluded "hey, 7th seal". Now we are in the "1/2 hour of silence" period.

The time period when Christ "like a sheep before the shears is dumb, so he opened not his mouth" and we see the wicked destroy America like Christ allowed the wicked to crucify Him knowing He would resurrect. We know the righteous will resurrect America.

Those waiting for the earthquake are technically 5th sealers because when the 6th seal opens, or shortly thereafter, is when the quake happens. In my opinion, it already happened.

[globule]

7 years of harvest followed by 7 years of devastation are set to commence in a few months per my 0030 thread. The 2030 book provides a lot of good info, but looks to be off by one year. The week of gc in the spring is based on my Angel of Light thread in the private region of the site. Four appearances of the Savior are foretold so don't expect everything at once. Prosperity will be great, but devastation draws near.

Wait a minute. There's a private region of this site?

[Robin Hood]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

[Melissa]

The saints need to be pleading daily for the savior to come and to deliver them before he comes. That's not really happenening...based in the fact that no one is really talking about wanting the savior to return and no prayer meeting being held for this purpose.

We will be tried with religious freedom and persecutions must come first. We known it's coming at sometime.

[Sunain]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.

[Robin Hood]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.

And why should any of that make any difference.
People living in 1800AD could well have said the same about today if they had seen it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Where do the scriptures or the prophets say that Christ must return before we invent more powerful telescopes or lesrn to fly to Jupiter really fast?
Brigham Young actually claimed the millenium had already started back in the 1850's!

[Sunain]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.

And why should any of that make any difference.
People living in 1800AD could well have said the same about today if they had seen it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Where do the scriptures or the prophets say that Christ must return before we invent more powerful telescopes or lesrn to fly to Jupiter really fast?
Brigham Young actually claimed the millenium had already started back in the 1850's!

Because were already at the point now where were going to leave earth. In 300 years we could have left our solar system. The more we learn, the more we become more like God and without the guidance of deity, we become agents unto our own self-worth at which point we wouldn't need a God except for immortality, which they are already working on now too. The Tower of Babel was to reach Heaven, now many scientists goal is to disprove there is a God and we that are God's unto ourselves, which I think is a much more insidious sin. I personally don't think going to Mars or the moon or any planet in our solar system negates the Plan of Salvation but leaving the area we were assigned to be in by Heavenly Father I think is. This earth was created for us, I think it would be sinful that we disregard it and would want to leave it to live elsewhere. I think were already on pretty rocky ground when we are creating human life in ways that are unnatural to the method Our father in Heaven designed almost making a mockery of the Law of Chastity and The Family Proclamation to the World by negating the actual need for them.

[wetnoodle]

Love the topic. Thanks

Spaced_out, did you propose start of 7th seal is 2033?, and
DaveDan, did you propse start of 7th seal is Apr 2000?

Thanks again

[Robin Hood]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.

And why should any of that make any difference.
People living in 1800AD could well have said the same about today if they had seen it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Where do the scriptures or the prophets say that Christ must return before we invent more powerful telescopes or lesrn to fly to Jupiter really fast?
Brigham Young actually claimed the millenium had already started back in the 1850's!

Because were already at the point now where were going to leave earth. In 300 years we could have left our solar system. The more we learn, the more we become more like God and without the guidance of deity, we become agents unto our own self-worth at which point we wouldn't need a God except for immortality, which they are already working on now too. The Tower of Babel was to reach Heaven, now many scientists goal is to disprove there is a God and we that are God's unto ourselves, which I think is a much more insidious sin. I personally don't think going to Mars or the moon or any planet in our solar system negates the Plan of Salvation but leaving the area we were assigned to be in by Heavenly Father I think is. This earth was created for us, I think it would be sinful that we disregard it and would want to leave it to live elsewhere. I think were already on pretty rocky ground when we are creating human life in ways that are unnatural to the method Our father in Heaven designed almost making a mockery of the Law of Chastity and The Family Proclamation to the World by negating the actual need for them.

Why do you think God asked "is man found upon the earth?".

[Cc07]

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-life-and ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[img]

Therefore, we cannot say that the seventh thousand years will begin in the year A.D. 2,000. This is only a rough approximation.

**The manual shows a timeline of the seven days or seals and shows the seventh seal beginning 2000 AD.**


As the instructor begins to discuss each seal, or “day,” he may wish to write John’s brief description underneath the line on the chart. The students could be asked to respond as to what great historical events were taking place during that thousand years. These major events could be written beneath John’s headings. See Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary 3:463-562. Also, to learn more about the seals, the teacher could thoroughly acquaint himself with the information found in chapter 55 of the course manual. (The listings are only suggestions. You may also wish to add significant events from secular history.)

The instructor may wish to point out to the students that just as only one significant aspect of each thousand-year period was highlighted in the first five seals, so it is with the sixth. While many significant events have taken place during this thousand-year period, only the great calamities of the last days are emphasized.

With regard to the seventh seal, it is important that the students realize that the second coming of Christ does not take place immediately in the beginning of the seventh thousand years. The instructor might read D&C 77:12, 13 with the students and discuss the following points:

1. In the beginning of the seventh thousand years, the Lord will finish his work of sanctifying the earth and bringing about the salvation of men.
2. The sounding of the trumpets of judgment is the thing which prepares the world for the coming of the Lord.
3. The great battle known as the battle of Armageddon takes place under the seventh seal, before the coming of Christ. (Caution should be used in this area of the presentation. It will very likely be of great interest to the students, and it has been a subject of much speculation. In the scriptures and through living prophets, the Lord has revealed much about the last days. The teacher should avoid sources which speculate on these matters, and he should seek inspiration in what he gives to his students.

[Sunain]

Why do you think God asked "is man found upon the earth?".

Indeed. If man leaves this earth, we might actually find another colony of humans. Cue Battlestar Galactica in 300 years but I don't think that is pertinent to our testing time here on this earth and why I think the second coming will happen way before then. The windows of heaven will be opened to us during the millennium instead of our technological advancement that might have precluded that aspect of the fathers plan to reveal knowledge in His prescribed timeline.

We've already reached the time of hastening of the gospel in preparation for the second coming, the one thing we do know is things can change in a aweful hurry. Look at the effects 9/11 has had on the entire world in only 15 years.

[freedomforall]

We're in the tribulation now in my view.

The problem with a lot of theories is that they speculate that the things that have to occur prior to the second advent happen in a chronologically lineal way. I think this is a mistake.

Various things can be happening simultaneously either in the same place or on opposite sides of the world. They can also be quite small scale; to the point that most people will be unaware they are happening.

Those who are so convinced it will be 2030 or 2033 are probably the same people that were convinced it was definitely 2000 or 2012.

Personally, I believe we could be 300 - 400 years away.

At the current rate of technological growth and knowledge learned, there is no way the second coming is no more than a century away. In 300 to 400 years, religion will completely be overtaken by science. Were already approaching God like capabilities on earth now as it is with creating babies without females, cloning, next generation space propulsion, next generation telescopes, computing power, ect. 300 years from now who knows what the human race would have accomplished.

In The Year 2525

[mmm..cheese]

The original poster asked a good question in regards to the relative order of events that happen in the last days. I don't know of an exact layout of the events that lead to the second coming and how all all of those events fit into the picture. I am guessing that one of the keys to understanding those things is within Isaiah, in addition to the Book of Mormon. The prophecies in Daniel also are not entirely clear.

[kfb]

There is some disagreement on this forum about "seals" and which seal we are in. We have some "6th-sealers" and some "7th-sealers". 6th-sealers are looking for an EQ, 7th-sealers just consider every 1000 years a seal. When President Hinkley said that April 2000 Conference marked 2000 years since Christ's birth, some concluded "hey, 7th seal". Now we are in the "1/2 hour of silence" period.

The time period when Christ "like a sheep before the shears is dumb, so he opened not his mouth" and we see the wicked destroy America like Christ allowed the wicked to crucify Him knowing He would resurrect. We know the righteous will resurrect America.

Those waiting for the earthquake are technically 5th sealers because when the 6th seal opens, or shortly thereafter, is when the quake happens. In my opinion, it already happened.

And the call of the 144,000 that is to happen in the 6th seal? Has that happened?

[friendsofthe]

I say that we are very close to the Second Coming. President Ezra Taft Benson, as president of the church told the youth of the church some time ago that they were a “marked generation”, the generation of the Second Coming. He made this statement several times. President Monson appears to have confidence in the statement of President Benson. Watch and listen to what he had to say about it in the priesthood session of general conference in 2011. Start listening at the 10:20 mark, go to the 11:54 mark. Pretty powerful if you ask me! Enjoy!

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kingdom of ZION]

Seeking a little help from all of you who have it down better than I do.

I've read quite a bit (both LDS and non-LDS) on estimated timing of the second coming and have a few questions in regards to the tribulation period which precedes it.

The Tribulation period is three and one half years before the coming of the Messiah. There is not one scriptural account of it being seven years, however there are four accounts that say three and one half years - Time, times and a half of time, forty two months, and one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

One theory which I've seen several times is that the second coming will occur sometime around 2033 +/- years due to the unknown date of the Savior's birth. This seems reasonable with what we know about dispensation lengths, etc.

As we do not know the year when the Messiah was born... though it most likely was 6 BC, we also do not know how long His ministry was, it was three to six years, with tradition being that it was only three years! Also, with such unknowns, we do not know what year He was crucified in, though it most likely was 33 AD. There is no set length for Dispensations, and it is a fault tradition if one is held for it is easily proven that they very greatly in length.

What I'm confused about is how long the period of tribulation is prior to this date.

See above about the Tribulation length. I am not endorsing your date listed! For He could come 2000 years from the start of His Ministry in the flesh, just as easy as He could come 2000 years from His death in the flesh! This is something only personal revelation can answer! It is not found in the scriptures or provable by ones wisdom!

Is it seven years of tribulation?

No, that is believed by many Christians, but it is not doctrinal or scriptural.

Is 2033 the target date for his return or is 2033 the start of the tribulation periods?

The Messiah will have already returned and redeemed the Elect by a hand full of years prior to that date.

Additionally, I'm confused about the space of time between the (capitalized) Second Coming and his appearance at the Mount of Olives - the appearance where he rescues the Jewish people who remain from the Battle of Armageddon.

The Two Witnesses and the Elect will be caught up (ruptured) in His coming in the clouds. Then He will come down and place His feet upon the Mount of Olives and a Great Earthquake (Six Seal will come. 7000 in the city of Jerusalem will die, Rome (Mystery Babylon) will be destroyed, and the earth will reel to and fro. Then will come the great supper of our G_d.

Do any of you have any insight into these events and their timing?

From a post I posted on another thread:

The End Time is almost upon us now...
As for Trumpets, Seals, and Vials, the key to understanding them is Seals are the long story leading up to the Day of the Lord, the Trumpets are the story leading up to the Day of the Lord, and the Vials or Bowls are the short story leading up to the Day of the Lord. Of course the Thunders or Voices is the very short story given on the Day of the Lord.

Put another way, the Seals covers Millennia, the Trumpets covers centuries, the Vials covers days, and the voices cover hours. For their is an appointed time: a year, a month, a day and a hour.

I will be more specific without giving the evidences which would take a whole day to share, and for such in depth volumes of information would be longer then yahoo allows in a email.

Seals: The four main powers in the earth, art the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
1: White Horse, Catholicism; 2: Red Horse, Communism; 3: Black Horse, Capitalism; 4: Green Horse, Islamism; 5: The slain Saints under the Altar (from the Christian Era) asking how long oh Lord. They art told, wait until the end time Saints are thus tested; 6: Describe the Day of the Lord; & 7: Silence in heaven that will come at the end of the Millennial realm.

Trumpets: The 7th Seal reveals the 7 Angels with seven trumpets ready to sound them.
1: World War I; 2: World War II; 3: Chernobyl; 4: Slowing down of Time; 5: Saddam and the Gulf War; 6:World War III; 7: The Day of the Lord.

Vials: Of the Wrath of God, that art poured out at the time of the battle of Armageddon.
1: foul and painful sores on those who took the Mark of the Beast; 2: the seas and the oceans become blood; 3: rivers and the remaining sources of water turn to blood and the Angel praises the great day of G_d Almighty 4: the sun causes a major heatwave to scorch the planet with fire, and the wicked refuse to repent while they blaspheme the name of G_d great earthquake, 5: thick darkness overwhelms the kingdom of the beast, the wicked continue to defame the name of G_d and refusing to repent and glorify G_d; 6: great river Euphrates dries up so that the kings of the east might cross to be prepared to battle (of Armageddon). These Kings are Russia, Three unclean spirits with the appearance of frogs come out of the mouths of the beast and the false prophet; 7: a global earthquake destroys Rome. Every mountain and island are removed from their foundations. Giant hailstones weighing nearly 100 pounds plummet the arms gathered to battle Yesrael, and the wicked's hatred of G_d intensifies while they continue to curse G_d. The Day of the Lord has come!

The 6th Seal is the same event as the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Vial, for there is only one great Earthquake that moves the earth out of its orbit (the earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard - Isaiah 24:20 KJV).

Sincerely,

LDS Physician

[mmm..cheese]

Do you think it would necessarily need to be exactly 2000 years from the end of the ministry? Is there a possibility that it means a great portion of time? I know the Scripture does that in Revelation 12 in reference to the Church going into the wilderness, as well as the 144,000. They are basically arbitrary numbers.

[Spaced_Out]

Do you think it would necessarily need to be exactly 2000 years from the end of the ministry? Is there a possibility that it means a great portion of time? I know the Scripture does that in Revelation 12 in reference to the Church going into the wilderness, as well as the 144,000. They are basically arbitrary numbers.

Read D&C 88 with Rev 12.. they have the same sequence of events given in the 6th seal: it is obvious none of them have happened yet - the sign given in D&C 88 and 3 Nephi is that the missionaries are recalled then the calamities come. The silence in heaven is still very much a future date event. Note is it silence from heaven not silence on earth.. The silence in heaven is a reprieve from meteorite showers and external destruction on the earth to give the 144k a time to finish the gathering and preaching to all the world. Note the 6th seal starts with meteorite showers and the 7th seal starts with final destruction by meteorites of biblical proportions that kill all things in the sea and all green grass on the earth.

87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.
91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men’s hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.
92 And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.
94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;