Your logic is backwards. You say that the times influenced the men who wrote down there memories. Of couse they did. When Dukakis ran for president, David Horne knew he wasn't of northern european ancestry, therefore he thought the time of the prophecy was imminent. He wrote down his memories. He checked what he wrote down with his brother who had also been present the night of G.A.S.'s visit. Some things he said his brother remembered differently, other things his brother didn't remember at all.DesertWonderer wrote:Excellent analysis. It almost exactly describes the problems with the GAS "prophecy" too. Funny how generation after generation similar problematic visions come up.AI2.0 wrote:This one was discussed extensively on the forum several years ago and it's impressive the indepth questions and research that posters engaged in. I'm afraid we don't see that much anymore, posters now just seem to accept everything at face value.kirtland r.m. wrote:This quote shows up often on the forum. Second Great Rebellion or Chicago Quote – A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives.
This was a letter from Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser on July 24, 1896:
“… My brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860′s between the North and the South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner as possible.”
When it would have been made(I believe it is an accurate quote), Chicago would have been much smaller than Nauvoo area(a third the size or so). Interestingly enough it has grown to be a very large city, one of the largest in America. There is one more thing that is telling about Chicago, it is the murder capital of America.http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/01/ ... y-october/This dangerous area looks as though it could be the perfect spot for the outbreak of that prophesied second American civil war. That old quote looks amazingly accurate to me so far, amazingly accurate.
Here's the thread, if anyone is interested in actually looking into this prophecy;
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14811
I read the thread and the problems that stand out right now are:
It's Third hand, 'my brother heard the prophet say' and it's several decades later. This makes is automatically problematic.
And the comment about Chicago is it's downfall, IMO. I looked it up. Chicago was not a small town, it was by some descriptions, comparable to Nauvoo and in some, it is said to be bigger than Nauvoo. Nauvoo was one of the largest cities in the state at the time. Why would the Prophet Joseph call Chicago a 'little town' when he would have known this. In 1896, the teller of the story probably didn't know this but he did know that Chicago was considered to have grown A LOT--in fact, it was the home of the Worlds Fair in 1893--three years before he wrote his letter(recollection). I think it shows that the teller's memory is off and he's putting his own spin in it.
So, one has to wonder, if the teller added that, what else did he add?
Also, if you wonder why the 'prophecy' is concerned about money and economic problems, well, there was a serious depression in the US
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/dep1893.htm
http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/depression.html
From this article;
1896 was the year the letter was written. Clearly, the depression and the fear of economic problems was on their minds. I think we can see that the teller is also influenced to share his memories with others because of what is happening in their present day. I'm not saying that it never happened, that Joseph didn't make some predictions, but I'm afraid that with it being third hand and almost 60 years later, and considering what they were living through, one must consider that this prophecy could easily be tainted.The depression remained severe in 1896, making economic conditions a crucial issue of the campaign. The sitting Democratic president, Grover Cleveland, was wildly unpopular because of the depression--a fact that helped foster a deep rift in the Democratic party, and also made Bryan's campaign an uphill battle from the start. During the first two years of McKinley's presidency the nation returned to prosperity, bringing new issues to the fore in 1898 and beyond.
I also think that with many of these recollected 'prophecies' that are shared here show the influence of the times the person lived in. They worry about war, food shortages, etc. I wonder if these prophecies are brought out, dusted off and shared around every time the economy takes a down turn or the drums of war start to beat. Notice that they never seem to be fulfilled, even with all the events that do take place around us.
Buyt what you two are saying is that Bro. Horne was worried about war and some Greek guy getting elected so he went and made up a prophecy and attributed it to President Smith. I really don't think that's what happened. But the times he lived in, he thought he recognized from the talk that was given that night, in his livingroom, by the prophet.
I imagine the Chicago prophecy was also written down at that time, exactly because of the things that were happening that fit so well with what Joseph Smith had said.
Or they both just made up a random prophecy, and got their 15 minutes of fame. Who knows? I don't follow JR, HS, Snuffer or anyone else who is not ordained and recognized by the church. But these historical accounts, purported to be from true prophets, which are starting to look plausible and or likely, bear some thought.
I'm not sure how knowing that civil war II will start in chicago is helpful, except to know to stay away if rioting turns to shooting.