"A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

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Robin Hood
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Robin Hood »

It's pretty clear that the second version is better.
The first gave comfort to the polygamists.

brianj
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Re: "A Rust That Will Never Key" Part 293,610,485

Post by brianj »

iWriteStuff wrote:I think it fair to say that there are some here who will argue against the notion that the church still has all the keys of the kingdom no matter what quotes you use.
I will argue that it would be more accurate to say the church still has all the keys of the kingdom that have been delegated to mortals at this time.

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Rachael
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Rachael »

Wolverine wrote:
Rachael wrote:And I don't give a shittake mushroom if people want to practice it. But don't tell us women folks that we have to ride the coat tails of some priesthood holder to get to the CK and live with GOD. GOD can make more people, more world's, or whatever. Im not a GOD, or god. Don't want to be. That was Satan's desire. And how he deceived Eve
Rachel, Satan did not want be a God, he wanted to take Heavenly Father's place "give me thine honor."

As for the Celestial Kingdom you may enter in if single but you will not receive exaltation without being married to a man and vice versa. :ymparty:

P.S. Could you refrain from poor use of language?
If you understood my post, then communication was effective. If it was effective, it wasn't poor use. Maybe not proper, but imo, not poor. In your opinion, maybe, and everyone has one of those (and something else).

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Durzan
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Durzan »

Seriously, lets keep things civil, shall we?

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gkearney
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by gkearney »

The problem with the whole follow the church records is that the original records of the church were, at the time of Joseph's death, in the hand of his heirs in particular Emma Smith. Joseph mingled church and personal business in a way that we would never do today but was common in the mid 19th century. It was this lack of records, combined with the desire to have the members recommit to the church, that lead Brigham Young to have almost all the members rebaptised as they arrived in the Salt Lake Valley.

So if we were to really "stay the the records" we would all be back in the midwest.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: "A Rust That Will Never Key" Part 293,610,485

Post by A Random Phrase »

iWriteStuff wrote:I think it fair to say that there are some here who will argue against the notion that the church still has all the keys of the kingdom no matter what quotes you use. For instance:
While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
One could easily twist that statement either way, some gleefully.
No twisting. It says: "taken from the earth" not "taken from a denomination" or "the LDS [or any other] Church." Also, it is talking about the priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels. I don't think the Aaronic priesthood has all the keys. It is a lesser priesthood. Originally it was given as a schoolmaster because the Israelites in Moses times refused to come into the presence of the Lord. (D&C talks about how Moses wanted them to enter into God's presence.)

The Melchizedek priesthood probably has more keys (by it, people can command the elements, through faith) - but no human holds the keys to the resurrection. Thus it is impossible for the LDS Church or the general authorities to hold all of the keys.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: "A Rust That Will Never Key" Part 293,610,485

Post by A Random Phrase »

brianj wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:I think it fair to say that there are some here who will argue against the notion that the church still has all the keys of the kingdom no matter what quotes you use.
I will argue that it would be more accurate to say the church still has all the keys of the kingdom that have been delegated to mortals at this time.
I would definitely agree that the current church has all of the keys God gave to it. What they entail, what they actually are, I do not know. Keys, in real life, open doors to rooms and buildings. Spiritual keys, I expect, are supposed to open doors to salvation, exaltation, resurrection, and possibly other things.

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Durzan
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Re: "A Rust That Will Never Key" Part 293,610,485

Post by Durzan »

gkearney wrote:The problem with the whole follow the church records is that the original records of the church were, at the time of Joseph's death, in the hand of his heirs in particular Emma Smith. Joseph mingled church and personal business in a way that we would never do today but was common in the mid 19th century. It was this lack of records, combined with the desire to have the members recommit to the church, that lead Brigham Young to have almost all the members rebaptised as they arrived in the Salt Lake Valley.

So if we were to really "stay the the records" we would all be back in the midwest.
Now that is a curious thing to say. I will take note of this.
A Random Phrase wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:I think it fair to say that there are some here who will argue against the notion that the church still has all the keys of the kingdom no matter what quotes you use. For instance:
While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
One could easily twist that statement either way, some gleefully.
No twisting. It says: "taken from the earth" not "taken from a denomination" or "the LDS [or any other] Church." Also, it is talking about the priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels. I don't think the Aaronic priesthood has all the keys. It is a lesser priesthood. Originally it was given as a schoolmaster because the Israelites in Moses times refused to come into the presence of the Lord. (D&C talks about how Moses wanted them to enter into God's presence.)

The Melchizedek priesthood probably has more keys (by it, people can command the elements, through faith) - but no human holds the keys to the resurrection. Thus it is impossible for the LDS Church or the general authorities to hold all of the keys.
This is also interesting. Also, I don't recall a revelation that directly said that the Melchizedek priesthood wouldn't be taken from the earth again. Not that I believe that actually happened or anything, just something I find interesting.
.

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

clarkkent14 wrote: June 1st, 2016, 3:11 pm
Durzan wrote:There were many "Noble and Great Ones" in the pre-mortal realm, and God made these his rulers... IE granted them Power and Authority...
What if a ruler was something to measure against? Rather than someone who exercises supreme power over others.
Mark 10:42-45 wrote:But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
That's how He was a ruler, and He expects us to use the same standard of measurement.
you have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can. You are a supposed "joseph smith Mormon" yet you deny everything he set up and all of his prophecies about the last days. No one can claim joseph was a prophet and that this church is not true. It goes against all of his prophecies of the destiny of this church. This one thread, hitting one of his unalterable prophecies in his last charge meeting. The standard of truth is another as well as many many others. Snuffer is a apostate and you are as well as much as I hate to say it. You owe it to your family to repent and come back to the one true way. The Davidic servant is "spencer" from Visions of glory. Also the big earthquake is most likely this September. Time is short. Come back while you still can.

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cappaccio
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by cappaccio »

Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pm The Davidic servant is "spencer" from Visions of glory.
:-o :-o :-o :-o

DesertWonderer
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by DesertWonderer »

Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pm
clarkkent14 wrote: June 1st, 2016, 3:11 pm
Durzan wrote:There were many "Noble and Great Ones" in the pre-mortal realm, and God made these his rulers... IE granted them Power and Authority...
What if a ruler was something to measure against? Rather than someone who exercises supreme power over others.
Mark 10:42-45 wrote:But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
That's how He was a ruler, and He expects us to use the same standard of measurement.
you have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can. You are a supposed "joseph smith Mormon" yet you deny everything he set up and all of his prophecies about the last days. No one can claim joseph was a prophet and that this church is not true. It goes against all of his prophecies of the destiny of this church. This one thread, hitting one of his unalterable prophecies in his last charge meeting. The standard of truth is another as well as many many others. Snuffer is a apostate and you are as well as much as I hate to say it. You owe it to your family to repent and come back to the one true way. The Davidic servant is "spencer" from Visions of glory. Also the big earthquake is most likely this September. Time is short. Come back while you still can.
=)) You TOTALLY made my day.

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

DesertWonderer wrote: March 17th, 2017, 5:38 pm
Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pm
clarkkent14 wrote: June 1st, 2016, 3:11 pm
Durzan wrote:There were many "Noble and Great Ones" in the pre-mortal realm, and God made these his rulers... IE granted them Power and Authority...
What if a ruler was something to measure against? Rather than someone who exercises supreme power over others.
Mark 10:42-45 wrote:But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
That's how He was a ruler, and He expects us to use the same standard of measurement.
you have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can. You are a supposed "joseph smith Mormon" yet you deny everything he set up and all of his prophecies about the last days. No one can claim joseph was a prophet and that this church is not true. It goes against all of his prophecies of the destiny of this church. This one thread, hitting one of his unalterable prophecies in his last charge meeting. The standard of truth is another as well as many many others. Snuffer is a apostate and you are as well as much as I hate to say it. You owe it to your family to repent and come back to the one true way. The Davidic servant is "spencer" from Visions of glory. Also the big earthquake is most likely this September. Time is short. Come back while you still can.
=)) You TOTALLY made my day.
Why is that funny to you

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

brianj wrote: June 1st, 2016, 9:41 pm
sixpack6t9 wrote:I had a dream. In my dream, the atheistic liberals came for the Mormon Church. Christianity in general has been under attack, and according to my dream LDS is next in lime. There will be a great falling out beyond this "gay rights" issue, which was part of my dream also. We will be mocked and scorned more than we've ever seen.

The govt, as we all know, is not our friend either. We all know they plan to target us and the way we do things, like store food and prepare. Preppers have been declared terrorists, as we know. In my dream, it gets MUCH worse and nearly divides the Church. Has anyone else had such promptings?
Isn't there a prophecy that persecution will become so intense that the faithful pray day and night for deliverance? I know my Bishop's dream for our ward is that they all become faithful enough to withstand that persecution. Unfortunately a great number of active ward members take a very casual approach toward the gospel.
Here it is- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbcnDhhVaH0

brianj
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by brianj »

Chris wrote: March 17th, 2017, 8:42 pm
brianj wrote: June 1st, 2016, 9:41 pm
sixpack6t9 wrote:I had a dream. In my dream, the atheistic liberals came for the Mormon Church. Christianity in general has been under attack, and according to my dream LDS is next in lime. There will be a great falling out beyond this "gay rights" issue, which was part of my dream also. We will be mocked and scorned more than we've ever seen.

The govt, as we all know, is not our friend either. We all know they plan to target us and the way we do things, like store food and prepare. Preppers have been declared terrorists, as we know. In my dream, it gets MUCH worse and nearly divides the Church. Has anyone else had such promptings?
Isn't there a prophecy that persecution will become so intense that the faithful pray day and night for deliverance? I know my Bishop's dream for our ward is that they all become faithful enough to withstand that persecution. Unfortunately a great number of active ward members take a very casual approach toward the gospel.
Thank you Chris, and I see you are new so welcome to the board.

As you get to know my posts better you will learn that sometimes I ask questions like the one above even though I already know the answer. I ask those questions to provoke thought in others.

And you'll also get to know that I have a great deal of contempt for videos that are nothing but a painfully slow presentation of text. It's not the messages contained in those videos; it's a presentation that is way too slow for my speed of reading and comprehension.
Here it is- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbcnDhhVaH0

DesertWonderer
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by DesertWonderer »

Chris wrote: March 17th, 2017, 8:35 pm
DesertWonderer wrote: March 17th, 2017, 5:38 pm
Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pm
clarkkent14 wrote: June 1st, 2016, 3:11 pm What if a ruler was something to measure against? Rather than someone who exercises supreme power over others.
That's how He was a ruler, and He expects us to use the same standard of measurement.
you have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can. You are a supposed "joseph smith Mormon" yet you deny everything he set up and all of his prophecies about the last days. No one can claim joseph was a prophet and that this church is not true. It goes against all of his prophecies of the destiny of this church. This one thread, hitting one of his unalterable prophecies in his last charge meeting. The standard of truth is another as well as many many others. Snuffer is a apostate and you are as well as much as I hate to say it. You owe it to your family to repent and come back to the one true way. The Davidic servant is "spencer" from Visions of glory. Also the big earthquake is most likely this September. Time is short. Come back while you still can.
=)) You TOTALLY made my day.
Why is that funny to you
An OBVIOUS false prophet is the David Servant?-I find that VERY funny. Don't you?

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

The Davidic servant will be through the priesthood lines of this church not outside of it. I fully expect him to be called a 70. IF he is not through the lines of the priesthood and under their direction then yes, he is not one to listen too. I have had a pretty powerful witness of Spencer. After not wanting to believe the book or his message. So we shall see. I of course will only listen to and follow proper priesthood lines....

brianj
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by brianj »

Chris wrote: March 22nd, 2017, 3:02 pm The Davidic servant will be through the priesthood lines of this church not outside of it. I fully expect him to be called a 70. IF he is not through the lines of the priesthood and under their direction then yes, he is not one to listen too. I have had a pretty powerful witness of Spencer. After not wanting to believe the book or his message. So we shall see. I of course will only listen to and follow proper priesthood lines....
I am not confident in your conclusion. We know from ancient and modern prophecy that one day, at a day before the Second Coming and before the battle of Armageddon, the Jews will rebuild their temple and will resume temple worship. We also know that when the surviving Jews are delivered after that battle they will be shocked to learn that their Messiah really is Jesus Christ, whom their ancestors crucified. Therefore it seems very unlikely to me that religious leaders of modern Israel will accept LDS authorities to ordain some to the Aaronic Priesthood or to establish temple ordinances, and seems equally unlikely to me that the two prophets of Jerusalem will be LDS general authorities.

We also have prophecies that the lost tribes will be gathered, then highways will be cast up out of the deep to allow the members of those tribes to walk to Zion after that great city has been established. They will bring their own scriptures as they come, led by their own prophets. It's an important point so I will repeat it. They will be led by their own prophets.

The future Davidic servants will be, in my opinion, people who are not of Joseph or Ephriam. Those servants will come from Judah or Benjamin and the lost tribes.

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Silver Pie
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Silver Pie »

Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pmyou have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can.
He has lost his way because he quotes Jesus and believes what Jesus said? @-)

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

Silver Pie wrote: March 25th, 2017, 1:11 pm
Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pmyou have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can.
He has lost his way because he quotes Jesus and believes what Jesus said? @-)
Really so because he quoted a scripture out of context he is correct. That justifies the law. If I read a scripture to you saying you are anything I want is that going to make it so, just because I misquoted a scripture? OR I could read in the BOM about how having more than one wife is wrong and then read in the bible were God sanctioned it? Anyone can twist the scriptures to say whatever they want.

I can tell you this with a 100% certainty. DS is going to go to hell!. He is perverting the truth and is on a very slippery slope. You cant claim JS was and is a prophet and the BOM is true and then deny what the BOM and especially the D&C says about this church and the literally 100's of prophecies of Joseph Smith about the destiny of this church which are all true by the way and then spit in the face of the prophet and his church and twist a couple little scriptures totally out of context and and start a false church on that foundation. IT boggles my mind you can be so deceived so easily but such a idiot. Also I am not someone who has never had spiritual experiences. I have had visions and special sacred experiences with the savior. I have used the priesthood and seen dozens healed instantly. I will pray for you but I am shocked who anyone can fall for this crap.

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

Chris wrote: March 25th, 2017, 2:59 pm
Silver Pie wrote: March 25th, 2017, 1:11 pm
Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pmyou have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can.
He has lost his way because he quotes Jesus and believes what Jesus said? @-)
Really so because he quoted a scripture out of context he is correct. That justifies the law. If I read a scripture to you saying you are anything I want is that going to make it so, just because I misquoted a scripture? OR I could read in the BOM about how having more than one wife is wrong and then read in the bible were God sanctioned it? Anyone can twist the scriptures to say whatever they want.

I can tell you this with a 100% certainty. DS is going to go to hell!. He is perverting the truth and is on a very slippery slope. You cant claim JS was and is a prophet and the BOM is true and then deny what the BOM and especially the D&C says about this church and the literally 100's of prophecies of Joseph Smith about the destiny of this church which are all true by the way and then spit in the face of the prophet and his church and twist a couple little scriptures totally out of context and and start a false church on that foundation. IT boggles my mind you can be so deceived so easily but such a idiot as DS. Also I am not someone who has never had spiritual experiences. I have had visions and special sacred experiences with the savior. I have used the priesthood and seen dozens healed instantly. I will pray for you but I am shocked who anyone can fall for this crap.

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

Chris wrote: March 25th, 2017, 3:01 pm
Chris wrote: March 25th, 2017, 2:59 pm
Silver Pie wrote: March 25th, 2017, 1:11 pm
Chris wrote: March 16th, 2017, 9:05 pmyou have lost your way. You need to repent while you still can.
He has lost his way because he quotes Jesus and believes what Jesus said? @-)
Really so because he quoted a scripture out of context he is correct. That justifies the law. If I read a scripture to you saying you are anything I want is that going to make it so, just because I misquoted a scripture? OR I could read in the BOM about how having more than one wife is wrong and then read in the bible were God sanctioned it? Anyone can twist the scriptures to say whatever they want.

I can tell you this with a 100% certainty. DS is going to go to hell!. He is perverting the truth and is on a very slippery slope. You cant claim JS was and is a prophet and the BOM is true and then deny what the BOM and especially the D&C says about this church and the literally 100's of prophecies of Joseph Smith about the destiny of this church which are all true by the way and then spit in the face of the prophet and his church and twist a couple little scriptures totally out of context and and start a false church on that foundation. IT boggles my mind you can be so deceived so easily but such a idiot as DS. Also I am not someone who has never had spiritual experiences. I have had visions and special sacred experiences with the savior. I have used the priesthood and seen dozens healed instantly. I will pray for you but I am shocked how anyone can fall for this crap.

Matchmaker
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Matchmaker »

Chris wrote: March 22nd, 2017, 3:02 pm The Davidic servant will be through the priesthood lines of this church not outside of it. I fully expect him to be called a 70. IF he is not through the lines of the priesthood and under their direction then yes, he is not one to listen too. I have had a pretty powerful witness of Spencer. After not wanting to believe the book or his message. So we shall see. I of course will only listen to and follow proper priesthood lines....
Chris, please tell me why you think the earthquake will be this Sept. Thank you.

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

kirtland r.m. wrote: May 30th, 2016, 10:42 pm If there is a fracturing of the Church Leadership, what should the saints do? The Prophet Joseph gave us direction. Today I speak of keys other than those of metal. The keys I speak of never rust. These are the keys of life and salvation in the kingdom of God. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” October 1994 | The Keys That Never Rust James E. Faust. Joseph Smith quote from Young Woman’s Journal, Dec. 1906, p. 543; see also Ensign, June 1994, p. 15.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... t?lang=eng
Wilford Woodruff once said that before a prophet could lead the Saints astray, God would take that prophet first. In his book, "Inspired Prophetic Warnings, " Duane Crowther said that during the end times, there would be general authorities who would lead some gullible Saints astray. If you follow the counsel of the living prophet, you will not be led astray.

Chris
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Chris »

Matchmaker wrote: March 25th, 2017, 3:14 pm
Chris wrote: March 22nd, 2017, 3:02 pm The Davidic servant will be through the priesthood lines of this church not outside of it. I fully expect him to be called a 70. IF he is not through the lines of the priesthood and under their direction then yes, he is not one to listen too. I have had a pretty powerful witness of Spencer. After not wanting to believe the book or his message. So we shall see. I of course will only listen to and follow proper priesthood lines....
Chris, please tell me why you think the earthquake will be this Sept. Thank you.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/12?lang=eng

The first 6 verses are currently happening with the birth on 9/23

Zion2080
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Re: "A Key That Will Never Rust" Fracturing within the Church? Part 2

Post by Zion2080 »

Chris wrote: March 25th, 2017, 5:56 pm
Matchmaker wrote: March 25th, 2017, 3:14 pm
Chris wrote: March 22nd, 2017, 3:02 pm The Davidic servant will be through the priesthood lines of this church not outside of it. I fully expect him to be called a 70. IF he is not through the lines of the priesthood and under their direction then yes, he is not one to listen too. I have had a pretty powerful witness of Spencer. After not wanting to believe the book or his message. So we shall see. I of course will only listen to and follow proper priesthood lines....
Chris, please tell me why you think the earthquake will be this Sept. Thank you.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/12?lang=eng

The first 6 verses are currently happening with the birth on 9/23


I'm so excited for September 23! I can't wait to see what unfolds!

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