Is John The Beloved the Davidic King?

[Kingdom of ZION]

My friend wrote:
Strange how personal revelation works. I read your declaration that the latter-day Davidic King whom we wait for is none other than the translated John the Beloved. So, I look at D&C 77:14. I read the LAST verse of Revelations Chap 10 about the prophecy that John will again prophesy and bear testimony to the nations. I read your statement about John as the First Cousin to Mary, thus sharing her royal Davidic line. Its as obvious as the nose on your face. Why is this so hard for anyone to get?

I know you've said this before, but it just didn't sink in. Now it does. I guess it helps that I prayed True Order of Prayer this morning before I started and the easy, simple revelation comes. Yes, John the Beloved. The Scriptures say so. Personal revelation says so. The Second Coming of Christ needs an Elias just as His FIRST coming did. Israel is always gathered for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only--to establish ZION. That is precisely what John the Beloved as the Davidic King will do. Need to look at Section 85 again. Is it possible that this One Mighty and Strong is NOT Joseph Smith, but the Davidic King? So many Fundamentalist Mormons think its Joseph Smith.

But it doesn't say straight out that. It comes to me as a quiet inspiration that we are going to have a "setting in order" analogous to what happened with Nehemiah and the Prophet Ezra as recorded in the book of Ezra, complete with a cleansing of Israel of Canaanite blood (the Priesthood had to put from themselves, their Canaanite wives according to the Law). Why else would Joseph Smith make reference to Ezra 2:61-62 in Section 84 which recites the NEED for the Priests to put from themselves the Blood of the Canaanite so as to claim their Priesthood as they were not found in the Registry of the Priests which is their genealogy? Ezra Chap 10 gives the process of how they were to rid themselves of the "pollution" as spelled out in v. 62. And how they found the pollution both by either genealogy or by revelation (Urim and Thummin in verse 63) which is what the purpose of Patriarchal Blessings in the Church was at one time.

See, for me, these are ALL keys by how to identify the TRUE Davidic King, as I am sure that the Apostate Church will put forth a "false Davidic King" much as there was a True Enoch and a False Enoch in the time before the Flood, the False Enoch having been born from Cain and having established a city which he named "The City of Enoch" (Moses 5:42) We know that the TRUE Enoch came from the loins of Adam and established the TRUE Zion/City of Enoch (Moses 7:19).

I am sensing that the "false Davidic Servant" will be from the loins of Canaan and also from Judah, will claim that he has the RIGHT to rule by virtue of his Davidic lineage, but it will be the Canaanite (Negro lineage) that will disqualify him, making him acceptable to the world "as politically correct", but unacceptable to the LORD as he cannot hold any kind of Priesthood or birthright blessing or appointment as God's Chosen Davidic King. Thus, he shares in the curse of Cain and does what his ancient counterpart, "Enoch, son of Cain" did in establishing a counterfeit "City of Enoch" (Moses 5:42). We should expect this false Davidic King to set forth all of these ridiculous "liberal politically correct concepts" and be applauded by the world at large. Whereas the TRUE Davidic Servant will be marred as part of the persecution he will endure in similitude of the Savior and as part of the Savior's guarantee that his true prophets will be persecuted (Matthew 5:11-12). What he will teach will not at all be "popular" with the people and they will malign him, persecute him, laugh at him and belittle him. Thus, comes the separation of the Wheat and the Tares as the Savior prophesied, 90% to the tares, 10% to the wheat, the usual split.

I could be wrong about this. I look, explore, study, pray and get little whispers here and there and then try and piece it together. Sometimes, but rarely, I get a whole revelation from God that puts ALL of the pieces together at once. But usually, He makes me struggle this stuff out. Perhaps, I need more faith to be better at getting "the Big Picture" sooner. But so far, this is what works for me.


Kingdom of ZION wrote:
I see it very different from what you believe. I think it would be easy to have a translated been, who has seen thousand of years of mans history to come and help put the nations of the earth straight. But that is not usually how Adonai does things. He calls the simple and weak to come in His name and they deliver His words with power, because it is not the man or men, but it is G_d who is speaking through him or them!

I believe it will be Elijah, as I am sure that is what Joseph Smith believed and taught.

I will send you a paper I compiled on JS Quotes on Elijah, for your consideration...


My Friend wrote:
So explain for me the LAST verse of Revelations Chapter 10:10-11 and D&C 77:

Revelation 10
10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

He never did this during his time on the Island of Patmos or at any other time after he disappeared, as he could not die as a translated man.

D&C 77:
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation? A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

Elias is always the CALLING of a man to prepare for Messiah's Coming. It seems that preparation is the "gathering the tribes of Israel". Isn't that what the Davidic King does to establish ZION?

Kingdom of ZION wrote:

Revelation 10 says he will, and we know that he has been with the ten tribes for the majority of the last two millenniums. What has he been doing?
Prophesy again before many peoples

The next part will come when he returns with the Ten Tribes, and their Prophets shall no longer stay them, and they shall smite the rock and the ice shall flow down at their presence, and a highway shall be cast up from the mitts of the deep (sea), and they shall walk upon dry ground and shall come forth from the north country from the land where they dwelt where no man knowth. John is one of their Prophets, and then shall he prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

D&C 77
It was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

Yes John will in fact gather the tribes or kingdom of Yesrael which is what the Ten Tribes comprise of. He will be the Elias or Witness, who shall be the forerunner of a great many end time events. He will restore the lost knowledge of the Yesrael's history, and G_d's deeds among them while they were lost (2500 years). He may restore the knowledge of the ordinance of Translation to Elijah, who is the forerunner of the Messiah.

The Davidic King/Elijah is to help build the End Time Temple, and to set in order ALL of the Ordinances of the house of G_d. His dispensation will comprise the turning of the heart of the Children to the heavenly Fathers and visa versa through sealings, the calling of the 144,000 at Adam-ondi-ahman, and the gathering of the Elect from the four corners of the earth on the very last day. His personal calling after Adam-ondi-ahman will be to go to Jerusalem with his brother for three and one half years to witness to the kingdom of Judah.

The Kingdom of ZION is a kingdom that is established in a day, cut out of the mountain without hands. The gathering of the kingdom of Yesrael is part of G_d's marvelous work and a wonder, in the end times. The Ten Tribes coming forth will bring forth a nation in a day. It will not be like it was in Joseph Smith's dispensation, taking 15 years to gather enough in size to become a nation if they had built Zion.

In speaking to your first letter, as per the Marred Servant being the Davidic Servant, when he and his companion are translated and then killed, that is in similitude of what the Messiah did. When they lay in the street of Jerusalem for three days (3 1/2) and they are raised from the grave of sorts, this is as close as one can come to doing what the Messiah did in His ministry, then His death, burial, and resurrection, without the Two Witnesses being resurrected!

Question to the Forum:

What prophesied Servants do you see? One Mighty and Strong, Elijah, John the Beloved, Davidic Servant/King, One like unto Moses, the Root and the Branch Prophet, the Marred Servant, the Two Witnesses, to name the majority of them for you.

[harakim]

My friend wrote:
Strange how personal revelation works. I read your declaration that the latter-day Davidic King whom we wait for is none other than the translated John the Beloved. So, I look at D&C 77:14. I read the LAST verse of Revelations Chap 10 about the prophecy that John will again prophesy and bear testimony to the nations. I read your statement about John as the First Cousin to Mary, thus sharing her royal Davidic line. Its as obvious as the nose on your face. Why is this so hard for anyone to get?

I know you've said this before, but it just didn't sink in. Now it does. I guess it helps that I prayed True Order of Prayer this morning before I started and the easy, simple revelation comes. Yes, John the Beloved. The Scriptures say so. Personal revelation says so. The Second Coming of Christ needs an Elias just as His FIRST coming did. Israel is always gathered for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only--to establish ZION. That is precisely what John the Beloved as the Davidic King will do. Need to look at Section 85 again. Is it possible that this One Mighty and Strong is NOT Joseph Smith, but the Davidic King? So many Fundamentalist Mormons think its Joseph Smith.

But it doesn't say straight out that. It comes to me as a quiet inspiration that we are going to have a "setting in order" analogous to what happened with Nehemiah and the Prophet Ezra as recorded in the book of Ezra, complete with a cleansing of Israel of Canaanite blood (the Priesthood had to put from themselves, their Canaanite wives according to the Law). Why else would Joseph Smith make reference to Ezra 2:61-62 in Section 84 which recites the NEED for the Priests to put from themselves the Blood of the Canaanite so as to claim their Priesthood as they were not found in the Registry of the Priests which is their genealogy? Ezra Chap 10 gives the process of how they were to rid themselves of the "pollution" as spelled out in v. 62. And how they found the pollution both by either genealogy or by revelation (Urim and Thummin in verse 63) which is what the purpose of Patriarchal Blessings in the Church was at one time.

See, for me, these are ALL keys by how to identify the TRUE Davidic King, as I am sure that the Apostate Church will put forth a "false Davidic King" much as there was a True Enoch and a False Enoch in the time before the Flood, the False Enoch having been born from Cain and having established a city which he named "The City of Enoch" (Moses 5:42) We know that the TRUE Enoch came from the loins of Adam and established the TRUE Zion/City of Enoch (Moses 7:19).

I am sensing that the "false Davidic Servant" will be from the loins of Canaan and also from Judah, will claim that he has the RIGHT to rule by virtue of his Davidic lineage, but it will be the Canaanite (Negro lineage) that will disqualify him, making him acceptable to the world "as politically correct", but unacceptable to the LORD as he cannot hold any kind of Priesthood or birthright blessing or appointment as God's Chosen Davidic King. Thus, he shares in the curse of Cain and does what his ancient counterpart, "Enoch, son of Cain" did in establishing a counterfeit "City of Enoch" (Moses 5:42). We should expect this false Davidic King to set forth all of these ridiculous "liberal politically correct concepts" and be applauded by the world at large. Whereas the TRUE Davidic Servant will be marred as part of the persecution he will endure in similitude of the Savior and as part of the Savior's guarantee that his true prophets will be persecuted (Matthew 5:11-12). What he will teach will not at all be "popular" with the people and they will malign him, persecute him, laugh at him and belittle him. Thus, comes the separation of the Wheat and the Tares as the Savior prophesied, 90% to the tares, 10% to the wheat, the usual split.

I could be wrong about this. I look, explore, study, pray and get little whispers here and there and then try and piece it together. Sometimes, but rarely, I get a whole revelation from God that puts ALL of the pieces together at once. But usually, He makes me struggle this stuff out. Perhaps, I need more faith to be better at getting "the Big Picture" sooner. But so far, this is what works for me.


Kingdom of ZION wrote:
I see it very different from what you believe. I think it would be easy to have a translated been, who has seen thousand of years of mans history to come and help put the nations of the earth straight. But that is not usually how Adonai does things. He calls the simple and weak to come in His name and they deliver His words with power, because it is not the man or men, but it is G_d who is speaking through him or them!

I believe it will be Elijah, as I am sure that is what Joseph Smith believed and taught.

I will send you a paper I compiled on JS Quotes on Elijah, for your consideration...


My Friend wrote:
So explain for me the LAST verse of Revelations Chapter 10:10-11 and D&C 77:

Revelation 10
10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

He never did this during his time on the Island of Patmos or at any other time after he disappeared, as he could not die as a translated man.

D&C 77:
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation? A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

Elias is always the CALLING of a man to prepare for Messiah's Coming. It seems that preparation is the "gathering the tribes of Israel". Isn't that what the Davidic King does to establish ZION?

Kingdom of ZION wrote:

Revelation 10 says he will, and we know that he has been with the ten tribes for the majority of the last two millenniums. What has he been doing?
Prophesy again before many peoples

The next part will come when he returns with the Ten Tribes, and their Prophets shall no longer stay them, and they shall smite the rock and the ice shall flow down at their presence, and a highway shall be cast up from the mitts of the deep (sea), and they shall walk upon dry ground and shall come forth from the north country from the land where they dwelt where no man knowth. John is one of their Prophets, and then shall he prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

D&C 77
It was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

Yes John will in fact gather the tribes or kingdom of Yesrael which is what the Ten Tribes comprise of. He will be the Elias or Witness, who shall be the forerunner of a great many end time events. He will restore the lost knowledge of the Yesrael's history, and G_d's deeds among them while they were lost (2500 years). He may restore the knowledge of the ordinance of Translation to Elijah, who is the forerunner of the Messiah.

The Davidic King/Elijah is to help build the End Time Temple, and to set in order ALL of the Ordinances of the house of G_d. His dispensation will comprise the turning of the heart of the Children to the heavenly Fathers and visa versa through sealings, the calling of the 144,000 at Adam-ondi-ahman, and the gathering of the Elect from the four corners of the earth on the very last day. His personal calling after Adam-ondi-ahman will be to go to Jerusalem with his brother for three and one half years to witness to the kingdom of Judah.

The Kingdom of ZION is a kingdom that is established in a day, cut out of the mountain without hands. The gathering of the kingdom of Yesrael is part of G_d's marvelous work and a wonder, in the end times. The Ten Tribes coming forth will bring forth a nation in a day. It will not be like it was in Joseph Smith's dispensation, taking 15 years to gather enough in size to become a nation if they had built Zion.

In speaking to your first letter, as per the Marred Servant being the Davidic Servant, when he and his companion are translated and then killed, that is in similitude of what the Messiah did. When they lay in the street of Jerusalem for three days (3 1/2) and they are raised from the grave of sorts, this is as close as one can come to doing what the Messiah did in His ministry, then His death, burial, and resurrection, without the Two Witnesses being resurrected!

Question to the Forum:

What prophesied Servants do you see? One Mighty and Strong, Elijah, John the Beloved, Davidic Servant/King, One like unto Moses, the Root and the Branch Prophet, the Marred Servant, the Two Witnesses, to name the majority of them for you.

1AM is not the appropriate time to try and understand this. Very interesting.

[sushi_chef]

at least he is with a pratt at the front desk of zions house....

"He said: "Do you know these brethren you have been talking with?"
I replied: "I judge one to be Brother Pa P. Pratt.
He said: "Yes, and the other is John the Revelator". I then awoke.
"
http://joyceholt.4t.com/FWHurst/part35.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35581&p=526729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:-B

[kfb]

No. Moderator please delete this thread.

[Kingdom of ZION]

No. Moderator please delete this thread.

kfb, whats wrong? Do you need a smaller sand box to feel safe to play in? You may not agree with my friend... I do not agree with him most of the time, but I will consider what he is questioning and try to help him along the path... and in so doing I many and generally do find new truths myself!

If you only talk to and read other peoples writings who agree with you, you learn nothing! And maybe ever the really great truths of G_d in this life will pass you by, because you have no foundation or conviction in which to consider those things you have not yet ever considered because you have never been willing to consider such. JS only revealed 1% of those things that were revealed to him by G_d, because of the stakes others place in the ground. If 1% is all you want, you might not want to read these forum, and you should stick to just reading the Ensign and lesson manuals. That way nothing will be in there to give you any reason to reconsider anything!

Shalom

[jwharton]

The John spoken of in D&C 77 as the Elias is not the Davidic King.
I'm not even of the opinion it is John the Beloved either.
I believe it is referring to John the Baptist rather than John the Beloved.
John the Baptist was in the office and standing as the Elias/Elijah to precede the coming of Jesus as the King-Messiah.
Just as the John then was referred to as the Elias/Elijah, it isn't out of the question to anticipate an Elias/Elijah/John figure to come.
And, this Elias/Elijah/John servant doesn't come as the King-Messiah but rather as the person who has the authority to anoint the King-Messiah.
The Elias figure is the new Elijah/John figure who anoints the new Davidic King-Messiah figure.

[Carlos]

Question to the Forum:

What prophesied Servants do you see? One Mighty and Strong, Elijah, John the Beloved, Davidic Servant/King, One like unto Moses, the Root and the Branch Prophet, the Marred Servant, the Two Witnesses, to name the majority of them for you.[/color]

It is my belief that the Lord is using personification (a term for symbolism) in identifying the Davidic servant. An example of this is in Rev 12 where he identify's the woman clothed with sun moon and stars. The woman is the primitive church. She gives birth to the manchild who is taken before she goes into the wilderness. The child represents the "Zion" organization which was to develop out of the primitive church. The Davidic individual is a branch, a witness, a ruler, the arm, and strength, and the servant of Christ. All these roles are assumed by the church and this priesthood body will fulfill it's destiny with the establishment of Zion in the Millennium. The kingdom of God on earth is the body of Christ, it is the Davidic servant. In Isa 11:1 the church or the kingdom of God on earth is the "little child" which will lead in the millennium when there is peace among all peoples (represented by the various beasts). Remember to enter the kingdom one must become as a "little child", meek, submissive.
DC113 speaking of the servant says,"6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days." The church has a right to the priesthood and keys, it is the ensign, and is gathering. It is the servant in the "hands of Christ".
The Church was the servant of 3 Ne 20,21 who was marred and healed. It occurred with the death of JS and the exodus to the Utah. Joseph in Egypt is a type of the church. He too was marred and left for dead before he was exiled to a strange land. Joseph went on to bear the burdens and eventually become a ruler and servant who gathered his brothers and father to a promised land.
I personally doubt there will be a resurrected or translated John, Elias, or Baptist who will usurp the authority of the restored church. God has established the church to gather the millenial kingdom, a kingdom which will be everlasting because it is guided by and obeys the laws of God.

[Lizzy60]

Carlos, I advise you to keep an open mind, or you may miss the most marvelous work that will come forth in this eternity.

I personally have NO doubt whatsoever that there will be individuals who will fill the roles that KofZion listed.

[Carlos]

If what you say is true, I won't miss a thing it, will be an obvious miracle, unless it leads me away from the established priesthood kingdom. If what I say is true, you will miss out on the marvelous work which will continue while you wait for something which will not come.

[jwharton]

Carlos,

I believe you meant section 113. Section 133 talks about how that messenger who God sends to redeem Zion is ignored by all but very few.

Each new covenant collective, such as the restored Priesthood (Adam) and the restored church (Eve), have significant and formative individuals, which in this case was Joseph Smith Jr. being the servant upon whom was laid much power from Ephraim.

I believe the covenant collectives of Abel, Cain and Seth will also have significant individuals as well.

We are literally in a repeat of a new narrative of Creation as a new foundation for a new cycle of Creation is being laid right now.
We have yet to be acquainted with all of the primary individuals who will perform the vital role of bringing Zion to its redemption and exaltation.

When the new Elias/Elijah/John servant performs their ministry to redeem Zion, there is no usurpation whatever on their part.
It would merely be a usurpation on the part of the church to arrogate itself as if it has the highest level of authority in Zion.
Are you saying you do not foresee the church accepting that this servant will have authority to set it in order?
Do you realize this is the same basis upon which the presiding high priest Caiaphas rejected John the Baptist, the Elias/Elijah of the time.
History does repeat itself and so it likely won't be any surprise that when the Elias/Elijah/John servant comes that he will again be rejected by the masses.
Which, along those lines, means that the new Davidic servant will also be rejected as well because people will already be rejecting the new John/Elijah.

[GrandMasterB]

Question to the Forum:

What prophesied Servants do you see? One Mighty and Strong, Elijah, John the Beloved, Davidic Servant/King, One like unto Moses, the Root and the Branch Prophet, the Marred Servant, the Two Witnesses, to name the majority of them for you.[/color]

It is my belief that the Lord is using personification (a term for symbolism) in identifying the Davidic servant. An example of this is in Rev 12 where he identify's the woman clothed with sun moon and stars. The woman is the primitive church. She gives birth to the manchild who is taken before she goes into the wilderness. The child represents the "Zion" organization which was to develop out of the primitive church. The Davidic individual is a branch, a witness, a ruler, the arm, and strength, and the servant of Christ. All these roles are assumed by the church and this priesthood body will fulfill it's destiny with the establishment of Zion in the Millennium. The kingdom of God on earth is the body of Christ, it is the Davidic servant. In Isa 11:1 the church or the kingdom of God on earth is the "little child" which will lead in the millennium when there is peace among all peoples (represented by the various beasts). Remember to enter the kingdom one must become as a "little child", meek, submissive.
DC133 speaking of the servant says,"6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days." The church has a right to the priesthood and keys, it is the ensign, and is gathering. It is the servant in the "hands of Christ".
The Church was the servant of 3 Ne 20,21 who was marred and healed. It occurred with the death of JS and the exodus to the Utah. Joseph in Egypt is a type of the church. He too was marred and left for dead before he was exiled to a strange land. Joseph went on to bear the burdens and eventually become a ruler and servant who gathered his brothers and father to a promised land.
I personally doubt there will be a resurrected or translated John, Elias, or Baptist who will usurp the authority of the restored church. God has established the church to gather the millenial kingdom, a kingdom which will be everlasting because it is guided by and obeys the laws of God.

Wow Carlos!!! I have read a lot of interesting theories on this site about the end times. This was one of those wow moments for me. I appreciate your insight and I am compelled to believe this. It is actually almost too simple of an explanation. But didn't Joseph say that Revelations was the most plain book to understand. Thanks for this. Gives me a lot to reconsider and to be hopeful for.

[zionminded]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

[simpleton]

Now this is what I consider to be one of the most important subjects of these latter days if not the most important....Zionminded has I think hit the nail on the head ...I have heard about this Davidic king/one mighty and strong/ son of man...etc etc all my life...I have read somewhat of Avraham Gileadi,s works in regards to this subject...I think he's on to something...his ideas of all these types and shadows of past history culminating in the great latter day drama.....he opened up at least to me a new way to understand scriptures...personally I think that what happened with the Savior in his day with the leaders of the church/priesthood rejecting Christ is a type and a shadow of what is or has happened in our day....
Isn't it interesting ...the jews rejected their king (Christ) as they were looking for a Davidical king to restore them back to the glory days of King David.....the church today is looking for the return of Christ in his glory but he states very clearly that " the heavens must retain me until the restitution of all things"....so who restores all things previous to the Lord's coming? ...this davidical king/one mighty and strong/leader of the 144k/ Son of Man etc etc
And the lds church has now rejected this servant....

[simpleton]

Read the testament of the 12 patriarchs ....especially Levis...see if that applys to our day... where he talks about the 7 eyes of the lord...compare those eyes starting with Joseph Smith....interesting

[simpleton]

But I will have to respectfully disagree with Carlos ....

[Mark]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

Not in the slightest. You like so many before you are setting yourself up for deception and eventual apostasy from the true and living church and priesthood of God. All the apostate groups who have broken from the LDS church spent much of their time and energies looking forward to the emergence of this great mystical Davidic servant who would be rejected by the big bad apostate LDS church authorities and would come forward to set things right in the name of the Lord. Of course joined by a remnant of true disciples of Christ (hint hint think mile high city) who after leaving the LDS church in the dust were sufficiently ready (conned) into participating in setting up the real Zion.

James Harmstons group of fundamentalists were fixated with this tantalizing possibility. They lived for it. They were this long awaited remnant group ready to redeem Zion some 15 years ago. (they beat you to it duster) Harmston projected the exact date for the coming of the Lord back to usher in the millenial reign with those who followed after him. (Drink all your kool-aid up honey after satisfying all my carnal desires and buckle up for March 25th 2000) He of course was dead wrong like so many other false adulterous prophets before him have been. He represented to be Joseph Smith reincarnated the marred servant back to rescue the day. Yada yada yada Excuse me while I... :ymsick:

[zionminded]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

Not in the slightest. You like so many before you are setting yourself up for deception and eventual apostasy from the true and living church and priesthood of God. All the apostate groups who have broken from the LDS church spent much of their time and energies looking forward to the emergence of this great mystical Davidic servant who would be rejected by the big bad apostate LDS church authorities and would come forward to set things right in the name of the Lord. Of course joined by a remnant of true disciples of Christ (hint hint think mile high city) who after leaving the LDS church in the dust were sufficiently ready (conned) into participating in setting up the real Zion.

James Harmstons group of fundamentalists were fixated with this tantalizing possibility. They lived for it. They were this long awaited remnant group ready to redeem Zion some 15 years ago. (they beat you to it duster) Harmston projected the exact date for the coming of the Lord back to usher in the millenial reign with those who followed after him. (Drink all your kool-aid up honey after satisfying all my carnal desires and buckle up for March 25th 2000) He of course was dead wrong like so many other false adulterous prophets before him have been. He represented to be Joseph Smith reincarnated the marred servant back to rescue the day. Yada yada yada Excuse me while I... :ymsick:

I fully expect false prophets to lead people astray, as has always been the case. There is a difference between being lead astray, and being aware of and waiting on the Lord's time table. Pride comes in two major forms in this context. Those who believe the Church is infallible, perfect and immutable, and that those outside this thinking are damned. The other, are those who see the Church as flawed, susceptible, and out of touch with the will of the Lord, and seek to establish their own "church", based on their pride. Both are problematic, both exist.

[Mark]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

Not in the slightest. You like so many before you are setting yourself up for deception and eventual apostasy from the true and living church and priesthood of God. All the apostate groups who have broken from the LDS church spent much of their time and energies looking forward to the emergence of this great mystical Davidic servant who would be rejected by the big bad apostate LDS church authorities and would come forward to set things right in the name of the Lord. Of course joined by a remnant of true disciples of Christ (hint hint think mile high city) who after leaving the LDS church in the dust were sufficiently ready (conned) into participating in setting up the real Zion.

James Harmstons group of fundamentalists were fixated with this tantalizing possibility. They lived for it. They were this long awaited remnant group ready to redeem Zion some 15 years ago. (they beat you to it duster) Harmston projected the exact date for the coming of the Lord back to usher in the millenial reign with those who followed after him. (Drink all your kool-aid up honey after satisfying all my carnal desires and buckle up for March 25th 2000) He of course was dead wrong like so many other false adulterous prophets before him have been. He represented to be Joseph Smith reincarnated the marred servant back to rescue the day. Yada yada yada Excuse me while I... :ymsick:

I fully expect false prophets to lead people astray, as has always been the case. There is a difference between being lead astray, and being aware of and waiting on the Lord's time table. Pride comes in two major forms in this context. Those who believe the Church is infallible, perfect and immutable, and that those outside this thinking are damned. The other, are those who see the Church as flawed, susceptible, and out of touch with the will of the Lord, and seek to establish their own "church", based on their pride. Both are problematic, both exist.

And yet you sure dont seem to see yourself in any of these camps who will be led astray. All righty then.. You already compare the LDS faith and its leadership to the wicked plotting Jewish Sanhedrin and Caiaphas and have drawn parallels between the chief priests rejection and persecution of Christ and what you see as the LDS church's eventual rejection of this holy davidic servant.

If you are sincere isnt it obviously just a matter of time before you separate yourself from the LDS church (if you havent already done so?) and do exactly what Harmston and Snuffer et al have done and have tried to get others to do? You then become a divider and not a unifier. Zion will not be comprised of any such people.

The Lord continues to work through a valid Priesthood system that continues to hold the proper Priesthood keys and authority to administer the saving ordinances. Those who try to break from this recognized system will one day find themselves on the outside looking in and wondering what the crap they did to themselves. There is still time to make a course correction. I encourage you and any others here who think the LDS church is fallen into apostasy or is heading that direction fast to make that change immediately. Time is running short.

[jwharton]

The blueprint people need to take into full consideration is how our current narrative is a patterned repeat of the creation narrative.
The first to come down and lay the foundation of a new creation is Michael, who we know becomes Adam in a new Garden, etc.
This same Michael is prophesied to "stand up" in the "last days" and during the "end times" and have a "time of trouble" and a "war in heaven".
Please see Daniel chapter 12 and Revelation chapter 12 in order to see, quite clearly, that Michael has a significant role to play in the end times.
This is one of the most important and I say pivotal advents the scriptures speak of that we should be able to positively identify.

When are the end times? They are right now. This places a "new Adam" as front and center in our current narrative. We should be able to see Michael as Adam right now and we can if people simply open up the eyes of their understanding and experience the quickening of their spirits.
When you "lock in" and look at the narrative of the Melchizedek Priesthood Body as Adam and the Church Body as Eve, then you have a reliable framework to use.
It should be obvious this narrative is playing out right now when you realize Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden in Missouri.
Jackson County Missouri is the Garden of Eden of the "new world" here in America, not to be confused with the Garden of Eden of the "old world".

Just as D&C says, the saints transgressed in Missouri and became driven out into the lone and dreary wilderness.
But, they weren't sent to the wilderness until after they were clothed with the garments of the holy priesthood in Nauvoo.

While in the wilderness the dragon (the adversary) would seek to destroy the woman (Eve=Church) and her son.
There they would receive help and eventually be redeemed but the Bible is missing the details of how this happened.
Other texts of holy writ go into more detail as to how Michael-Adam is redeemed and it is His Only Begotten Son who does it.
This is when there is the advent of the Son of Man, who is the advent of Jehovah, that comes to minister to and redeem Adam.
This isn't talking about what happens in the meridian of time thousands of years later but right during Adam's lifetime.
Adam and Eve were redeemed and regained their exaltation in victory over the Kingdom they were given due to their Son.

We know Adam and Eve had several offspring along the way, but that ultimately there was only Seth who remained a faithful Son to them.
Abel was a faithful son but he was murdered by Cain who usurped everything and who sought to supplant the Father's Plan with Lucifer's Plan.
During the time that the woman is in the wilderness she is put under the buffetings of the adversary until her day of redemption comes.
This means that for a season of time that the adversary would overcome her and usurp her and nearly cause her entire destruction.
Most people that awaken to see just how bad things actually are blame the Church instead of giving Her aid to endure in Her perils.
All their sons besides Abel and Seth succumb to the lies of Satan and "believed it not" so far as Adam and Eve's redemption was concerned.
So many people look to Eve (the Church) as if She is everything and forget that there are also other distinct bodies in this narrative to identify.
A question that really should be of concern is who is Abel and who is Seth and how and why was Cain such a threat to them?

There are also the distinct bodies of Adam (the Melchizedek Priesthood covenant body), Abel (the priesthood body who was adamant to render the acceptable offering and who was murdered for it), Cain (those imposing the Luciferian agenda instead of the Father's Plan and who are usurping everything by way of spiritual murder, they are seeking to please mammon and they are undermining individual liberty promoting doctrines such as "just do as you are told and don't question us" or "if you continue to voice your grievances publicly then you will be excommunicated, which is spiritual capital punishment") and there is Seth (a priesthood body that stands as Abel's replacement in the role of Firstborn and who ministers to and redeems Adam and Eve and who is the kinsman redeemer for his deceased brother Abel). All other offshoots (offspring) from Adam and Eve are deceived by the adversary and reject Adam and Eve's redemption.

So, what we really need to keep an eye out for is how to identify these distinct covenant or spiritual bodies who are motivated along the lines of the narrative of creation. Does our spirit more align with Abel's, Cain's or Seth's or perhaps some other offshoot's spirit, which would be a nameless son or daughter? How far into this narrative are we? If Adam and Eve are the restored bodies organized in April of 1830 and Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born then this means Seth is already on the scene and is approximately 50 years old by now. Abel is already dead and Cain is currently in the driver's seat having usurped the Father's Plan and is endeavoring to take the Father's glory to himself with his counterfeit plan that goes right along with the Luciferian agenda that is corrupting everything else in the world.

If eternal life and salvation is your desire then everything possible should be done to route out the spirit of Cain from your heart and mind. Study out everything said of him in the Bible, the Pearl of Great Price, the temple endowment, apocryphal texts, the Qur'an, and so on. And, put it in the context of the "war in heaven" that is literally repeating now. What is the Father's Plan? It is Celestial Law, the same laws that were given to the early saints and that the "fundamentalists" (Abel) were adament to continue adhere to, but which eventually had them spiritually murdered by way of excommunication even though there were valid revelations that did call for the organization of a distinct priesthood body specifically for preserving the higher laws. What is the alternative plan that is now in alignment with Lucifer's new world order that will eventually take away our individual agency?

It becomes possible to see the important individuals in all of these things when you attune the eye of your understanding to see the "big picture" in terms of how things are playing out with covenant bodies. Identify who Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, etc. are and the spirits that each of these spiritual bodies of flesh and bone foster and navigate yourself accordingly. You definitely do not want to remain a member of Cain's body of flesh and bone because to do so is to fight against the Father's Plan, which is Celestial Law. Those who have covenanted to build up the Father's Kingdom, but who instead advocate spiritual murder of those who are true and faithful to the Father's Plan will reap the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost.

[zionminded]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

Not in the slightest. You like so many before you are setting yourself up for deception and eventual apostasy from the true and living church and priesthood of God. All the apostate groups who have broken from the LDS church spent much of their time and energies looking forward to the emergence of this great mystical Davidic servant who would be rejected by the big bad apostate LDS church authorities and would come forward to set things right in the name of the Lord. Of course joined by a remnant of true disciples of Christ (hint hint think mile high city) who after leaving the LDS church in the dust were sufficiently ready (conned) into participating in setting up the real Zion.

James Harmstons group of fundamentalists were fixated with this tantalizing possibility. They lived for it. They were this long awaited remnant group ready to redeem Zion some 15 years ago. (they beat you to it duster) Harmston projected the exact date for the coming of the Lord back to usher in the millenial reign with those who followed after him. (Drink all your kool-aid up honey after satisfying all my carnal desires and buckle up for March 25th 2000) He of course was dead wrong like so many other false adulterous prophets before him have been. He represented to be Joseph Smith reincarnated the marred servant back to rescue the day. Yada yada yada Excuse me while I... :ymsick:

I fully expect false prophets to lead people astray, as has always been the case. There is a difference between being lead astray, and being aware of and waiting on the Lord's time table. Pride comes in two major forms in this context. Those who believe the Church is infallible, perfect and immutable, and that those outside this thinking are damned. The other, are those who see the Church as flawed, susceptible, and out of touch with the will of the Lord, and seek to establish their own "church", based on their pride. Both are problematic, both exist.

And yet you sure dont seem to see yourself in any of these camps who will be led astray. All righty then.. You already compare the LDS faith and its leadership to the wicked plotting Jewish Sanhedrin and Caiaphas and have drawn parallels between the chief priests rejection and persecution of Christ and what you see as the LDS church's eventual rejection of this holy davidic servant.

If you are sincere isnt it obviously just a matter of time before you separate yourself from the LDS church (if you havent already done so?) and do exactly what Harmston and Snuffer et al have done and have tried to get others to do? You then become a divider and not a unifier. Zion will not be comprised of any such people.

The Lord continues to work through a valid Priesthood system that continues to hold the proper Priesthood keys and authority to administer the saving ordinances. Those who try to break from this recognized system will one day find themselves on the outside looking in and wondering what the crap they did to themselves. There is still time to make a course correction. I encourage you and any others here who think the LDS church is fallen into apostasy or is heading that direction fast to make that change immediately. Time is running short.

Mark, it is fairly common for somebody who is in the 3rd stage of faith (Fowler’s Stages of Faith), to look at others who think differently than you, as apostates. What will you do when the church leaders are split between two major social issues, who's side will you take?

Stage 3: Synthetic-Conventional Faith. Most people move on to this stage as teenagers. At this point, their life has grown to include several different social circles and there is a need to pull it all together. When this happens, a person usually adopts some sort of all-encompassing belief system. However, at this stage, people tend to have a hard time seeing outside their box and don’t recognize that they are “inside” a belief system. At this stage, authority is usually placed in individuals or groups that represent one’s beliefs. The world is often seen in black and white terms without a lot of nuance, and information seen as hostile to beliefs are usually discounted or ignored. Many people remain in this stage their entire adult life.

[Mark]

"What will you do when the church leaders are split between two major social issues, who's side will you take?"

what if what if what if.. :ymsigh: Church leaders are perfectly united in working together by building up the kingdom of God on earth. Instead of focusing on a bunch of hypotheticals why dont you jump on board with them and stop with the what ifs?

[zionminded]

"What will you do when the church leaders are split between two major social issues, who's side will you take?"

what if what if what if.. :ymsigh: Church leaders are perfectly united in working together by building up the kingdom of God on earth. Instead of focusing on a bunch of hypotheticals why dont you jump on board with them and stop with the what ifs?

Haha... you've not read Isaiah yet have you.

[Kingdom of ZION]

The John spoken of in D&C 77 as the Elias is not the Davidic King.
I'm not even of the opinion it is John the Beloved either.
I believe it is referring to John the Baptist rather than John the Beloved.
John the Baptist was in the office and standing as the Elias/Elijah to precede the coming of Jesus as the King-Messiah.
Just as the John then was referred to as the Elias/Elijah, it isn't out of the question to anticipate an Elias/Elijah/John figure to come.
And, this Elias/Elijah/John servant doesn't come as the King-Messiah but rather as the person who has the authority to anoint the King-Messiah.
The Elias figure is the new Elijah/John figure who anoints the new Davidic King-Messiah figure.

I agree in most of what you say here. But I believe that Elijah was also John the Baptist, and when he comes in the end times, he will be the David foretold to come he is the Root, and the Davidic Servant. He will be a King of the Next dispensation and will at the end be called the Davidic King, but he is not the King of Kings. When he comes, His coronation will be at Adam-ondi-Ahman, and it will be by one far greater than he, the Davidic Servant/King. It will be by Michael.

[Kingdom of ZION]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

In answer to your question, No!

I agree with you however, when you say "combined with righteous people from other denominations", I would want to make it more clear that they are converted and baptized, becoming believers in common. Thehy do not contine to worship in their old traditions.

Also, I would want to remind everyone that the vast majority of these people who lay the foundations of Zion and build the New Jerusalem Temple will be Lamanites... native peoples, from here upon this continent.

[Kingdom of ZION]

When the Davidic servant emerges, he will be rejected by the LDS Church (Chaiphas) who will make an alliance with the government (Pilot) against him. The Davidic servant, later, leads the 144,000, and is later joined with the fragments of the Church after its near collapse. The resulting group of saints, now combined with righteous people from other denominations, establish cities of Zion waiting Christs coming.

Did I rattle anyone's belief box?

Not in the slightest. You like so many before you are setting yourself up for deception and eventual apostasy from the true and living church and priesthood of God. All the apostate groups who have broken from the LDS church spent much of their time and energies looking forward to the emergence of this great mystical Davidic servant who would be rejected by the big bad apostate LDS church authorities and would come forward to set things right in the name of the Lord. Of course joined by a remnant of true disciples of Christ (hint hint think mile high city) who after leaving the LDS church in the dust were sufficiently ready (conned) into participating in setting up the real Zion.

James Harmstons group of fundamentalists were fixated with this tantalizing possibility. They lived for it. They were this long awaited remnant group ready to redeem Zion some 15 years ago. (they beat you to it duster) Harmston projected the exact date for the coming of the Lord back to usher in the millenial reign with those who followed after him. (Drink all your kool-aid up honey after satisfying all my carnal desires and buckle up for March 25th 2000) He of course was dead wrong like so many other false adulterous prophets before him have been. He represented to be Joseph Smith reincarnated the marred servant back to rescue the day. Yada yada yada Excuse me while I... :ymsick:

No one is here saying let run before the Lord has sent anyone. No one is counseling you to forsake anything, your membership, your affiliations. We reading the scriptures and trying to discern the signs of the times, that we might not be taken by the Lord in His coming as a thief in the night.

As the Lord has said He will send servants beforehand, like Elijah, we want to know what beings like Elijah are prophesied to do so we might recognize our Lord's servants, rather than reject them!

I think the big difference between you and me is what servants you will except, my willingness to consider all the possibilities.

Time will prove each one of us as to whether we will except those servants who come in the name of the Lord, and have signs with them that G_d is with them! May the meek and the humble find and embrace all of His true servants, that is my prayer.