Upon my house shall it begin...

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gungadin500
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Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by gungadin500 »

Looking to the more-studied and better-read members of the forum to give insight and opinion on D&C 112:24-26. How (and WHERE) will the Lord's "vengeance" upon His house be made manifest, and does it refer to a physical cleansing, a spiritual cleansing, or both?

On the one hand, when I read the following quote from Pres. Benson and his reference to these verses, it seems to imply a spiritual cleansing among all members everywhere, as Pres. Benson refers to those within the Church who are members, but are not living in harmony with the teachings of the Church. Is His "vengeance" manifest in the form of "weeping" and "lamentation" of Church members who realize the error of their ways only after His coming, or at some other time when the time for repentance has passed? Here is the quote I poached from one of kirtland r.m.'s posts:

President Benson talked very clearly about this growing division in the Church that we are experiencing. He said:
“Sometimes we hear someone refer to a division in the Church. In reality, the
Church is not divided. It simply means that there are some who, for the time
being at least, are members of the Church but not in harmony with it. These
people have a temporary membership and influence in the Church; but unless
they repent, they will be missing when the final membership records are
recorded.
“It is well that our people understand this principle, so they will not be misled
by those apostates within the Church who have not yet repented or been cut off.
But there is a cleansing coming. The Lord says that his vengeance shall be
poured out "upon the inhabitants of the earth. . . . And upon my house shall it
begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those
among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not
known me. . . ." (D&C 112:24-26.) I look forward to that cleansing; its need
within the Church is becoming increasingly apparent.Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1969, pp. 10-15

On the other hand, in reading "The Cleansing of America," Cleon Skousen, very clearly describes in the section entitled "The Church is Cleansed of Apostates and Backsliders," that the cleansing would mainly take the form of a "cataclysmic plague" that "commences in the REGION of the Lord's house," to which he refers in other passages as the Rocky Mountain area (he later writes that the plague will first begin to abate in the Rocky Mountain region from whence it sprang).

Personally, I tend to believe in more of a figurative "cleansing" that starts among the members of the Church and slowly works to sift away those who are "not in harmony with it." According to other sources, including Gerald Lund's "The Coming of the Lord," that process started back when the saints were forced to flee Missouri because they were not diligent in keeping the commandments they were given, and the process continues to this day. I have a hard time with the idea that a plague will originate in Salt Lake City and from there, spread to the rest of the country. The Lord has His Houses all throughout the nation. I have lived in three western states, including Utah, and I can tell you that there is as much apathy among Church members in other states as there is in the Salt Lake Valley. Do your experiences cause you to believe otherwise?

I would appreciate your comments and opinions. I personally find this topic to be of much greater interest and importance to me than whether I am asked to endure tribulations in a house or a tent. I am a member of the Church and want to be counted among those saints who endure this "cleansing." What form will the increased persecution take that will effectuate this cleansing? What policy positions could the Church take that would prove even more divisive than those positions it has already taken? While I really enjoy and appreciate the work that goes into many posts about civil wars and foreign incursions, what can be said about the persecution that the Church is facing and will face, and the manner in which it cleanses the Church? Thanks all.

Zathura
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Zathura »

The Lord explains in the following verse.
He says "First among those among you, saith The Lord who have professed to know my name and have not known me,and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house".

The first to be cleansed will be those members who claim to know Jesus and his Father, who claim to have taken his name upon them, but do not show that through their actions.
Apparently also those who blasphemed in the Temple will suffer the same fate, I can only guess as to what that means.

They will be pruned. I believe this will be spiritual and temporal. Some may be afflicted, some perhaps killed, but all who are pruned will be ousted by God and his works, and they will suffer spiritually and perish. The imposters will be exposed, the false disciples and the wolves' works will be revealed. How God will do all that, there's no way to tell. God works in many ways.

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kirtland r.m.
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by kirtland r.m. »

Here is a partial statement by Sarah Menet, a former atheist, now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who in a 1970's N.D.E. was shown some of the things you asked about.
The next thing I saw was people being sick and dying. I saw this particularly in four cities: New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Salt Lake. The disease started by having white blisters, some the size of dimes appear on their hands, arms and face. This quickly developed into white puffy sores and blisters. People would stumble about and fall and then many died within a short time, maybe 24 hours. I also saw other people with blood coming from their nose, mouth, eyes and ears. It started like a flu virus and it spread very quickly, faster than the other white blister disease. The people who had this disease died even faster. This was more wide spread across the entire United States. There were hundreds of thousands of people stricken with these two diseases.
I knew that the diseases, and there were several different kinds, but at first primarily these two, came from small containers that had been brought into the United States. These containers were like quart jars and I was impressed that the people carrying them would just drop them on the ground in large crowds of people and the people would become infected without realizing it.
In these cities as the disease spread, the people tried to flee from the cities out to the countryside. There was complete chaos in these cities and a breakdown of normal society. There was no electricity in them either, but I don't know why or how that came to be. There were cars piled up everywhere, blocking roadways and most people then had to walk out with nothing. The disease started to spread beyond these initial cities.
Here is a link if anyone wants to read more.http://lastdaysigns.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... -1979.html
Here are two quotes that come to mind on this subject.
Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.
The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel?
and, The revelation to produce and store food may be as essential to our temporal welfare today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah.

Ezra T. Benson (Both quotes from October 1980 General Conf.).
Last edited by kirtland r.m. on February 24th, 2016, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Spaced_Out »

SLS is on the largest active normal fault in the world. Many have seen it in vision and all the scriptures referring to the start of the tribulations of the last day note it starts with an earthquake.

Some say it will be gradual cleansing no D&C 112 states very clearly it comes as a whirlwind - destruction is instant and swift. Those that don't flee the city from the Earthquake and coming plagues will be in serous trouble. Refer to 3 Nephi where all the land is destroyed by earthquakes and tempests . There is a lot more to it but this should put it in perspective.

brianj
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by brianj »

I don't believe that the cleansing started when the Saints fled Missouri and is ongoing. Your quote from Elder Benson is one witness that we have member among us who are not living the standards of the gospel. Another witness comes from President J. Reuben Clark, Jr, who in the spring 1949 conference warned: "the ravening wolves are amongst us from our own membership and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep's clothing, because they wear the habiliments of the Priesthood..." This statement was again quoted by Elder Benson in the October 1967 general conference.

We have church members among us who are actively working to lead fellow church members astray. Some are doing so intentionally and some have been misguided enough to sincerely believe they are doing what's right. Some people in this second category are church members who go through the motions but never bothered to read the scriptures or get to know the gospel. As stated in section 112, these are those people: "who have professed to know my name and have not known me..."
I recall a story I recently heard involving a member of the church who was caught committing adultery and even confessed to their Bishop. A short time later the Bishop found this person in the temple. Shocked, he asked why the person thought they were worthy to attend the temple after what they had confessed to. The brilliant response was that the Bishop didn't tell this individual that they weren't to use their temple recommend. I can't comprehend somebody confessing to violating temple covenants then going back to the temple and making those same covenants that they are breaking, but if I neglected the gospel and my testimony enough I could possibly come to that level of ignorance.

I have three different hypotheses for the cause of the cleansing. Reality might be any one, a combination, or none of the above.
One hypothesis is a plague, as Skousen suggests. possibly with a modern corrolary to the bronze serpent Moses made. The people to be purged would not bother to look to whatever they have been told to look to.
Another hypothesis is persecution of the church. Those with weak testimonies, those who use church as a social club, and those who attend without believing will leave the church in order to avoid being persecuted by modern wickedness. But this would not be instant or swift.
The third hypothesis is that we self-select who stays with the church and who leaves. In the event of a gathering of church members, those to be purged from teh church stay behind (I would assume they stay behind with church members who have insufficiently strong testimonies to accept the invitation).

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AlbertaBronco
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by AlbertaBronco »

Why is everything so figurative and not literal. I think you're wrong on this one. It will be both. Just like the gathering of the 10 tribes.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Robin Hood »

I suspect the "house" to which the scriptures refer in this case is the House of Israel.

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red6
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by red6 »

Is it the General consensus that If you die from a plague or an earth quake or some other form of tribulation that you were/are one of the wicked? To me that is vib I get from several people. Remember every righteous person from the beginning of this earth has died. Minus what Cain, John and the 3 Nephiets and a few twinkled oh and the city of Enoch but hey we are still talking about 99.99%. I tend to think if a huge disaster like that happened a large chunk of us would go down with the ship. Just because you are righteous does not mean you are going to make it through all of it alive.

To me it appears that those who think (I will give them the benefit of doubt are) one of the righteous tend to believe that they are immortal or think that it will be like one of the many apocalyptic TV shows, when they are the few that survived the devastation. We are all going to die folks but fortunately we will all live again yes I know some will never taste of death but come on friends face it we will all die at some point and that is not a bad thing it is all part of the plan. So as far as a literal cleansing goes a good chunk of us are goners and going to get swept up in the mix. I don’t think it labels you as wicked. If it is more literal than figurative that is. Until then see you on the flippidy flop.

Ps know Cain was not righteous

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Mark
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Mark »

Robin Hood wrote:I suspect the "house" to which the scriptures refer in this case is the House of Israel.
I agree. Read 3rd Nephi 20-21. The Lord is clear on the blessings and cursings of those who are a part of the house of Israel up to his coming in glory.

gungadin500
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by gungadin500 »

I appreciate the feedback. Gerald Lund's book on the last days and on this particular verse has some really insightful quotes from past prophets on the suffering to be endured by both the righteous and the wicked, the fact that the righteous will be spared the worst of it (but not all of it), and a few other interesting notes. I will post some quotes later for consideration.

I admit I still find the idea of judgments emanating from a specific locale is troubling, particularly because I've wanted to make my way back to the Salt Lake Valley at some point, and what Skausen wrote about it freaks me out a little. If anyone has read The Cleansing of America you know what I mean. He is unequivocal about the subject, and he's a guy who has forgotten more than what most people will ever now and closely associated with many church authorities during his lifetime. But I fully acknowledge that fear is a byproduct of a lack of faith. God will do His work and fulfill His promises. I just don't like the idea of being at the epicenter of a cataclysmic plague, but it has to start someplace.

brianj
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by brianj »

red6 wrote:Is it the General consensus that If you die from a plague or an earth quake or some other form of tribulation that you were/are one of the wicked? To me that is vib I get from several people. Remember every righteous person from the beginning of this earth has died. Minus what Cain, John and the 3 Nephiets and a few twinkled oh and the city of Enoch but hey we are still talking about 99.99%. I tend to think if a huge disaster like that happened a large chunk of us would go down with the ship. Just because you are righteous does not mean you are going to make it through all of it alive.

To me it appears that those who think (I will give them the benefit of doubt are) one of the righteous tend to believe that they are immortal or think that it will be like one of the many apocalyptic TV shows, when they are the few that survived the devastation. We are all going to die folks but fortunately we will all live again yes I know some will never taste of death but come on friends face it we will all die at some point and that is not a bad thing it is all part of the plan. So as far as a literal cleansing goes a good chunk of us are goners and going to get swept up in the mix. I don’t think it labels you as wicked. If it is more literal than figurative that is. Until then see you on the flippidy flop.

Ps know Cain was not righteous

Look at how easily an infectious disease can spread with modern, global transport networks. If you haven't seen an animation showing how easily mass transit in a major city can help spread a disease, or how the addition of air travel can rapidly spread a disease globally, such information is easy to find online. Consider how quickly a plague could travel. Since many illnesses are contagious before the infected individual is symptomatic, imagine how quickly a plague could spread with a 48 or 72 hour incubation period.

Now, hypothetically, consider what would happen if the prophet invites members to gather out of the world. Maybe we go to camps somewhere, maybe we hide out on temple grounds or in stake centers, In the end we are isolated from the people who unknowingly spread an illness. In such a situation, isolation would be a blessing and a protection from the spread of a plague.
Of course, not all the righteous will be gathered. Some righteous members of the church will be unable to gather due to military or other obligations, some will lack faith to gather, some won't hear the invitation for various reasons, and none of the righteous outside the church will hear the message. Some will die, others will be spared. Does their dying mean they are unworthy or unrighteous? Of course not! It only means that they are moving on to other tasks in Heavenly Father's grand plan. Though I really want to live until the Second Coming, if I am called upon to die before then I will do what I am called upon to do.

And for those who gather, I anticipate a life as easy and comfortable as that enjoyed by members of the Martin and Willie handcart companies - only lasting a whole lot longer than their journey across the midwest and Rocky Mountains. Many will die. Many will live. All will carry out whatever role in Heavenly Father's plan they have been assigned.

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS »

brianj wrote:
red6 wrote:Is it the General consensus that If you die from a plague or an earth quake or some other form of tribulation that you were/are one of the wicked? To me that is vib I get from several people. Remember every righteous person from the beginning of this earth has died. Minus what Cain, John and the 3 Nephiets and a few twinkled oh and the city of Enoch but hey we are still talking about 99.99%. I tend to think if a huge disaster like that happened a large chunk of us would go down with the ship. Just because you are righteous does not mean you are going to make it through all of it alive.

To me it appears that those who think (I will give them the benefit of doubt are) one of the righteous tend to believe that they are immortal or think that it will be like one of the many apocalyptic TV shows, when they are the few that survived the devastation. We are all going to die folks but fortunately we will all live again yes I know some will never taste of death but come on friends face it we will all die at some point and that is not a bad thing it is all part of the plan. So as far as a literal cleansing goes a good chunk of us are goners and going to get swept up in the mix. I don’t think it labels you as wicked. If it is more literal than figurative that is. Until then see you on the flippidy flop.

Ps know Cain was not righteous

Look at how easily an infectious disease can spread with modern, global transport networks. If you haven't seen an animation showing how easily mass transit in a major city can help spread a disease, or how the addition of air travel can rapidly spread a disease globally, such information is easy to find online. Consider how quickly a plague could travel. Since many illnesses are contagious before the infected individual is symptomatic, imagine how quickly a plague could spread with a 48 or 72 hour incubation period.

Now, hypothetically, consider what would happen if the prophet invites members to gather out of the world. Maybe we go to camps somewhere, maybe we hide out on temple grounds or in stake centers, In the end we are isolated from the people who unknowingly spread an illness. In such a situation, isolation would be a blessing and a protection from the spread of a plague.
Of course, not all the righteous will be gathered. Some righteous members of the church will be unable to gather due to military or other obligations, some will lack faith to gather, some won't hear the invitation for various reasons, and none of the righteous outside the church will hear the message. Some will die, others will be spared. Does their dying mean they are unworthy or unrighteous? Of course not! It only means that they are moving on to other tasks in Heavenly Father's grand plan. Though I really want to live until the Second Coming, if I am called upon to die before then I will do what I am called upon to do.

And for those who gather, I anticipate a life as easy and comfortable as that enjoyed by members of the Martin and Willie handcart companies - only lasting a whole lot longer than their journey across the midwest and Rocky Mountains. Many will die. Many will live. All will carry out whatever role in Heavenly Father's plan they have been assigned.
I know some question the authenticity of this vision, but if true, it shows SLC will be scourged like everywhere else. I agree, that many righteous people will die in the judgments of the last days only to continue in the work on the other side, and some wicked will live until the end when the earth is burned.

John Taylor's vision:
I then found myself wandering about the streets of Salt Lake City and noticed on the doors of every house, including my own, badges of mourning, and said to myself, can it be possible that I am dead? Just then I heard a voice say, “No, you will live through it all.” No one seemed to be passing along the streets and everything was as still as death, except the prayers of the people that could be heard in the houses. I saw no funerals, and the scourge or whatever it was, seemed to be under control. I then looked over the country; in every direction as far as I could see, a similar condition prevailed.

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kirtland r.m.
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by kirtland r.m. »

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
brianj wrote:
red6 wrote:Is it the General consensus that If you die from a plague or an earth quake or some other form of tribulation that you were/are one of the wicked? To me that is vib I get from several people. Remember every righteous person from the beginning of this earth has died. Minus what Cain, John and the 3 Nephiets and a few twinkled oh and the city of Enoch but hey we are still talking about 99.99%. I tend to think if a huge disaster like that happened a large chunk of us would go down with the ship. Just because you are righteous does not mean you are going to make it through all of it alive.

To me it appears that those who think (I will give them the benefit of doubt are) one of the righteous tend to believe that they are immortal or think that it will be like one of the many apocalyptic TV shows, when they are the few that survived the devastation. We are all going to die folks but fortunately we will all live again yes I know some will never taste of death but come on friends face it we will all die at some point and that is not a bad thing it is all part of the plan. So as far as a literal cleansing goes a good chunk of us are goners and going to get swept up in the mix. I don’t think it labels you as wicked. If it is more literal than figurative that is. Until then see you on the flippidy flop.

Ps know Cain was not righteous

Look at how easily an infectious disease can spread with modern, global transport networks. If you haven't seen an animation showing how easily mass transit in a major city can help spread a disease, or how the addition of air travel can rapidly spread a disease globally, such information is easy to find online. Consider how quickly a plague could travel. Since many illnesses are contagious before the infected individual is symptomatic, imagine how quickly a plague could spread with a 48 or 72 hour incubation period.

Now, hypothetically, consider what would happen if the prophet invites members to gather out of the world. Maybe we go to camps somewhere, maybe we hide out on temple grounds or in stake centers, In the end we are isolated from the people who unknowingly spread an illness. In such a situation, isolation would be a blessing and a protection from the spread of a plague.
Of course, not all the righteous will be gathered. Some righteous members of the church will be unable to gather due to military or other obligations, some will lack faith to gather, some won't hear the invitation for various reasons, and none of the righteous outside the church will hear the message. Some will die, others will be spared. Does their dying mean they are unworthy or unrighteous? Of course not! It only means that they are moving on to other tasks in Heavenly Father's grand plan. Though I really want to live until the Second Coming, if I am called upon to die before then I will do what I am called upon to do.

And for those who gather, I anticipate a life as easy and comfortable as that enjoyed by members of the Martin and Willie handcart companies - only lasting a whole lot longer than their journey across the midwest and Rocky Mountains. Many will die. Many will live. All will carry out whatever role in Heavenly Father's plan they have been assigned.
I know some question the authenticity of this vision, but if true, it shows SLC will be scourged like everywhere else. I agree, that many righteous people will die in the judgments of the last days only to continue in the work on the other side, and some wicked will live until the end when the earth is burned.

John Taylor's vision:
I then found myself wandering about the streets of Salt Lake City and noticed on the doors of every house, including my own, badges of mourning, and said to myself, can it be possible that I am dead? Just then I heard a voice say, “No, you will live through it all.” No one seemed to be passing along the streets and everything was as still as death, except the prayers of the people that could be heard in the houses. I saw no funerals, and the scourge or whatever it was, seemed to be under control. I then looked over the country; in every direction as far as I could see, a similar condition prevailed.
Seems President Taylor may have seen plague event.

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red6
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by red6 »

kirtland r.m. wrote:
I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
brianj wrote:
red6 wrote:






John Taylor's vision:
I then found myself wandering about the streets of Salt Lake City and noticed on the doors of every house, including my own, badges of mourning, and said to myself, can it be possible that I am dead? Just then I heard a voice say, “No, you will live through it all.” No one seemed to be passing along the streets and everything was as still as death, except the prayers of the people that could be heard in the houses. I saw no funerals, and the scourge or whatever it was, seemed to be under control. I then looked over the country; in every direction as far as I could see, a similar condition prevailed.
Seems President Taylor may have seen plague event.
Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.

capctr
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by capctr »

red6 wrote:
kirtland r.m. wrote:
I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
brianj wrote:






John Taylor's vision:
I then found myself wandering about the streets of Salt Lake City and noticed on the doors of every house, including my own, badges of mourning, and said to myself, can it be possible that I am dead? Just then I heard a voice say, “No, you will live through it all.” No one seemed to be passing along the streets and everything was as still as death, except the prayers of the people that could be heard in the houses. I saw no funerals, and the scourge or whatever it was, seemed to be under control. I then looked over the country; in every direction as far as I could see, a similar condition prevailed.
Seems President Taylor may have seen plague event.
Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.

Not only that, but it would be kind of hard for John Taylor to live through an epic, apocalyptic plague that never came in his lifetime.

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Mark
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Mark »

Killjoys! How dare you try to take away some good ole Mormon folklore that some people live for! Who cares if it has no basis for fact. Its tantilizing and scary and besides it sells so show a little understanding here. Have you no mercy? =; :D

brianj
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by brianj »

red6 wrote:Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.
I understand that it has only been established that the vision *may or may not have been* given to John Taylor. If you have definitive proof it wasn't Elder Taylor, please provide it.

Wilford Woodruff, while a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, thought the vision significant enough to transcribe into his journal. That fact indicates that an Apostle of the Lord felt the vision described to him was of significance. The fact that the person who received this vision is not clearly established is not sufficient for many of us to discount the whole thing.

There is another vision, published in Contributor, volume 5, number 11, pages 411-413 by "Add-Caput-Ville" - most certainly a pseudonym. This vision, again from an anonymous source, was considered significant enough for inclusion in an official church publication way back in 1884. That author described seeing images of "atoms of poison" falling on people in various scenes, causing them to become sick and shortly die. But in one scene he or she saw a large collection of tents and no people, with a description of a camp of Saints preserved from plague by revelation.

The church leaders responsible for publishing Contributor thought that vision significant enough to publish. That action doesn't make the vision canon or literal, but doesn't suggest to me that the claimed vision should be dismissed outright.

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS »

red6 wrote:
kirtland r.m. wrote:
I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
brianj wrote:






John Taylor's vision:
I then found myself wandering about the streets of Salt Lake City and noticed on the doors of every house, including my own, badges of mourning, and said to myself, can it be possible that I am dead? Just then I heard a voice say, “No, you will live through it all.” No one seemed to be passing along the streets and everything was as still as death, except the prayers of the people that could be heard in the houses. I saw no funerals, and the scourge or whatever it was, seemed to be under control. I then looked over the country; in every direction as far as I could see, a similar condition prevailed.
Seems President Taylor may have seen plague event.
Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.
Which is why I added the "if true" caveat in the paragraph before the quote. You conveniently left that out.

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS »

Mark wrote:Killjoys! How dare you try to take away some good ole Mormon folklore that some people live for! Who cares if it has no basis for fact. Its tantilizing and scary and besides it sells so show a little understanding here. Have you no mercy? =; :D
I'm sorry if you find the folklore scary, but you can be assured I'm not selling anything.

brianj
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by brianj »

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
red6 wrote:Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.
Which is why I added the "if true" caveat in the paragraph before the quote. You conveniently left that out.
That edit appears to have occurred at the same time your response to me was somehow attributed to me.

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS
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Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS »

brianj wrote:
I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
red6 wrote:Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.
Which is why I added the "if true" caveat in the paragraph before the quote. You conveniently left that out.
That edit appears to have occurred at the same time your response to me was somehow attributed to me.
Sorry, that was not meant for you.

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Col. Flagg
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Posts: 16961
Location: Utah County

Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Col. Flagg »

D&C 112:

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Did it begin 17 years ago?

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harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by harakim »

Spaced_Out wrote:SLS is on the largest active normal fault in the world. Many have seen it in vision and all the scriptures referring to the start of the tribulations of the last day note it starts with an earthquake.
Do you have a source for this? If SLS means Salt Lake City, it is on more of an average fault.

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red6
captain of 50
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Location: Utah County

Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by red6 »

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote:
red6 wrote:
kirtland r.m. wrote:
I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: Seems President Taylor may have seen plague event.
Hasn’t it already been established on many other posts many times that John Taylors Vision was not John Taylor and it is not endorsed by the Church? So why is it still being quoted as Gospel and used as a prophecy or a source of credible information? Just something I find interesting.
Which is why I added the "if true" caveat in the paragraph before the quote. You conveniently left that out.

My bust I was just trying to trim down the response I did not mean to "Conveniently" leave anything out.

After reading on this forum for so many years you get board of the same things circling around even if they have been discussed thoroughly. I get a touch ornery, I think this forum is a sloppy way of communication so again my apologies for a sloppy mistake but it is still good entertainment. :ymhug:

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Mark
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Posts: 6929

Re: Upon my house shall it begin...

Post by Mark »

Col. Flagg wrote:D&C 112:

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

Did it begin 17 years ago?

:)) Healthy dose of confirmation bias going on here son.

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