LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 8:27 pm**

The end is not yet but by and by.

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church-p ... apocalypse

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 8:33 pm**

Can't wait to see how people spin this one.

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 8:34 pm**

And Brianj, Catherine, zionminded, in 321.

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 8:44 pm**

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 9:01 pm**

The news report spun the story!

Church didn't use term "push back", just that it was not the Church's official position.
This is from the same story about the use in teaching from anything other than std works/church mat'ls.
The bulletin did not use the term spurious in relation to Julie Rowe's book, used "caution" instead.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do you spin Pres. Monson's message last September?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/09/are- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 9:09 pm**

The fact that the church came out and stated that her book isn't doctrine really should be a sign to everyone that there is something wrong with her book.

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 9:10 pm**

BTH&T wrote:The news report spun the story!

Church didn't use term "push back", just that it was not the Church's official position.
This is from the same story about the use in teaching from anything other than std works/church mat'ls.
The bulletin did not use the term spurious in relation to Julie Rowe's book, used "caution" instead.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39942" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do you spin Pres. Monson's message last September?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/09/are- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you. I just made my first prophecy and it came true. Maybe a I should write a book.

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 10:00 pm**

BTH&T wrote:The news report spun the story!

Church didn't use term "push back", just that it was not the Church's official position.

How do you spin Pres. Monson's message last September?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/09/are- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indeed the new report did spin the story. The church's statement was just warning not to take members personal opinions as the church's official position. This has been the stance of the church forever. They didn't confirm or deny anything about impending tribulations.

How do you spin President Hinckley's message from October 2001 then too?
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 10:20 pm**

Alighieri wrote:The end is not yet but by and by.

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church-p ... apocalypse

This is a wrongful report, and you have fallen for the media twisting things around.

Go take a look at what the LDS church ACTUALLY said, in full context. Read the whole announcement by the LDS church, and you will plainly see that they encourage LDS members to be prepared, not the opposite. They took the LDS announcement completely out of context.

Further, they did NOT add Julie Rowe's books, (which I have not read, full disclosure), to a "spurious materials" list to warn people away from them. What they DID do was to tell institute/seminary teachers not to teach from them, which is correct. They should be teaching from scripture instead.

The media is so filthy and full of lies/distortions. But such is the way of Babylon...

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 10:22 pm**

setyourselffree wrote:Can't wait to see how people spin this one.

You can't wait to see how people spin a story that was originally spun in the first place. I see.

Posted: **September 25th, 2015, 11:03 pm**

Sunain wrote:
BTH&T wrote:The news report spun the story!

Church didn't use term "push back", just that it was not the Church's official position.

How do you spin Pres. Monson's message last September?
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/09/are- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Indeed the new report did spin the story. The church's statement was just warning not to take members personal opinions as the church's official position. This has been the stance of the church forever. They didn't confirm or deny anything about impending tribulations.

How do you spin President Hinckley's message from October 2001 then too?
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great talk, I remember it well. Totally buy in, loved it!

Also his talk Oct 1998, this was a very spiritual time for me. This talk changed my life!
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 1:06 am**

Alighieri wrote:The end is not yet but by and by.

You do know that "by and by" means soon, right?

The Church encourages our members to be spiritually and physically prepared for life's ups and downs. For many decades, Church leaders have counseled members that, where possible, they should gradually build a supply of food, water and financial resources to ensure they are self-reliant during disasters and the normal hardships that are part of life, including illness, injury or unemployment.

Does any of this contradict what Rowe and others have said? Or does the encouragement to spiritually and temporally prepare agree with the advice from Rowe to prepare spiritually and temporally?

This teaching to be self-reliant has been accompanied by the counsel of Church leaders to avoid being caught up in extreme efforts to anticipate catastrophic events.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The Church has consistently advised us to avoid debt, and I have a firm belief that I will be better off if the tribulations (even if they include a church gathering) happen if I have less food but avoided debt as opposed to running my credit cards to their limits buying food now. And yes, I know there are a bunch of people who have read Rowe's books who are rapidly buying out of fear, but that doesn't disprove anything she says.

The writings and speculations of individual Church members, some of which have gained currency recently, should be considered as personal accounts or positions that do not reflect Church doctrine.

The issue here is that those of you who feel contempt for Rowe and her message seem to believe "do not reflect Church doctrine" is defined as "false." Last season, when the Seahawks won the NFC Championship, I said they would lose the Super Bowl. Did my saying it make it church doctrine? No. Was there any church doctrine that supported my statement? No. Did the Seahawks lose? Yes. Therefore was my statement both true and not official church doctrine? Yes.

I believe that Julie Rowe had a vision. She may have properly interpreted that vision or misinterpreted it, but I refuse to dismiss it just because she was not set apart as a church leader.

Let me draw another example. At Deseret Book, you can buy a book or movie about the 1986 Cokeville, Wyoming hostage crisis. In the book or DVD bonus features you can read or listen to the words of people who were taken hostage and held in a room while a bomb went off. They claimed to have seen angels and received instructions from those angels that saved their lives or helped them to save the lives of others. Some of the angels allegedly told their names to the child they were ministering to. In some cases, after the event children were shown pictures of deceased ancestors and identified specific individuals as the angels that ministered to them.

Is the book "The Cokeville Miracle: When Angels Intervene" church doctrine? No.
Is the movie "Cokeville Miracle" church doctrine? No.
Does this mean that we should ignore the book and move, and that it would be completely wrong of us to suspect or conclude that deceased ancestors, or maybe only worthy deceased church members, can be called to serve as ministering angels to their posterity? Feel free to tell me that I am going to hell for believing anything that did not come from somebody sustained as a prophet. Nothing that any of my flight instructors has ever told me was revealed through an ordained Apostle, but I doubt President Uchtdorf would dispute the truth of any of that information.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 1:12 am**

And where, other than KUTV, can I find this statement? I did not find it at mormonnewesroom.org or lds.org.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 1:22 am**

setyourselffree wrote:Can't wait to see how people spin this one.

That is exactly what I was thinking only applying it to you!

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 1:30 am**

It is really a useless endeavor to defend these silly posts. By all means, setyourselffree and others...don't believe the tribulations are near. We really do not care. I look to the signs in the world and the prophesies that are being fulfilled at an accelerated rate. That is all I need to know.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 1:35 am**

I think this is the beginning of the end....... for Julie Rowe.
And not before time.
I suspect in a year or two from now most people will have forgotten about her, she'll have a few quid in the bank, and someone else wil be flavour of the month for the itching ears brigade.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 2:30 am**

setyourselffree wrote:And Brianj, Catherine, zionminded, in 321.

I choose to listen to the Prophet's first and foremost over church PR.

President Ezra Taft Benson said;
"Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.

The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel?"

And President Thomas S. Monsen last year said,
"We live in turbulent times. Often the future is unknown; therefore, it behooves us to prepare for uncertainties. When the time for decision arrives, the time for preparation is past."

Don't believe the Hector's and Julie's and Spencer's. No problem. But practice what you preach and believe the Prophets.

"Those who SMUGLY think these calamities will not happen."

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 2:38 am**

Robin Hood wrote:I think this is the beginning of the end....... for Julie Rowe.
And not before time.
I suspect in a year or two from now most people will have forgotten about her, she'll have a few quid in the bank, and someone else wil be flavour of the month for the itching ears brigade.

At what point will you believe that the tribulations are imminent? Do you believe that they will happen at some point? Did Noah cry repentance for 120 years and preach to the people what was coming? And all of those people got tired of it and most likely exclaimed that it would never happen. That they had heard about it for so long that it was foolishness. And they mocked Noah and laughed at him. And he gave them one last chance before he shut the door to the ark. And suddenly the sky darkened and the rains began. Who looked foolish then? I guarantee we will see the same thing again. Sadly history will repeat itself.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 4:05 am**

Catherine wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:I think this is the beginning of the end....... for Julie Rowe.
And not before time.
I suspect in a year or two from now most people will have forgotten about her, she'll have a few quid in the bank, and someone else wil be flavour of the month for the itching ears brigade.
At what point will you believe that the tribulations are imminent? Do you believe that they will happen at some point? Did Noah cry repentance for 120 years and preach to the people what was coming? And all of those people got tired of it and most likely exclaimed that it would never happen. That they had heard about it for so long that it was foolishness. And they mocked Noah and laughed at him. And he gave them one last chance before he shut the door to the ark. And suddenly the sky darkened and the rains began. Who looked foolish then? I guarantee we will see the same thing again. Sadly history will repeat itself.

Catherine,
The tribulations have already started and have been with us for some time. Just watch the news.
Have we seen earthquakes in diverse places? Tsunami's? Volcanic eruptions? Devastating wars? Plagues? Famine? Men's hearts failing them? People calling good bad and bad good? Distress? Rampant immorality? Greed? Pride? Violence...... the list goes on.
Will these thing intensify? According to the scriptures they will. Do we need Julie Rowe to tell us this and make herself fame and fortune in the process? No we don't. Remember, one of the signs of the times are false prophets.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 6:41 am**

brianj wrote:
Alighieri wrote:The end is not yet but by and by.
You do know that "by and by" means soon, right?

It can actually mean "after a while" or " soon "

http://grammarist.com/usage/by-and-by-by-the-by/

The Lord's definition of soon is not Julie Rowe's definition of soon.

The calamities are already happening, as Robin Hood pointed out. The church put her book on a list of "Spurious Materials in Circulation."

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church- ... misleading

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 7:39 am**

The calamities are already happening. Yes that is true. But that does not mean we are in the 7 year tribulation time. That phase will be unlike anything we have seen yet. I am glad that many of you do not need additional warnings from Julie, Hector, Spencer... I however, appreciate any extra warning I can have. It has helped me wrap my mind around what is coming. It has helped me to prepare further.. That 10.50 I spent on their books will yield immeasurable profits for me. Happy to do it. I have read their books once. I have read the Book of Mormon more then I can count. The practical application from their messages are of great value. I am greatful. Like I said, glad some of you don't need it. I do. And I thank my maker for it.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 7:42 am**

Robin Hood wrote:
Catherine wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:I think this is the beginning of the end....... for Julie Rowe.
And not before time.
I suspect in a year or two from now most people will have forgotten about her, she'll have a few quid in the bank, and someone else wil be flavour of the month for the itching ears brigade.
At what point will you believe that the tribulations are imminent? Do you believe that they will happen at some point? Did Noah cry repentance for 120 years and preach to the people what was coming? And all of those people got tired of it and most likely exclaimed that it would never happen. That they had heard about it for so long that it was foolishness. And they mocked Noah and laughed at him. And he gave them one last chance before he shut the door to the ark. And suddenly the sky darkened and the rains began. Who looked foolish then? I guarantee we will see the same thing again. Sadly history will repeat itself.
Catherine,
The tribulations have already started and have been with us for some time. Just watch the news.
Have we seen earthquakes in diverse places? Tsunami's? Volcanic eruptions? Devastating wars? Plagues? Famine? Men's hearts failing them? People calling good bad and bad good? Distress? Rampant immorality? Greed? Pride? Violence...... the list goes on.
Will these thing intensify? According to the scriptures they will. Do we need Julie Rowe to tell us this and make herself fame and fortune in the process? No we don't. Remember, one of the signs of the times are false prophets.

Robinhood, you never respond to anything in a post that is obviously correct. Your only defense is the issue of money. You skirt every valid point.I just can't take you seriously anymore.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 7:45 am**

Catherine wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Catherine wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:I think this is the beginning of the end....... for Julie Rowe.
And not before time.
I suspect in a year or two from now most people will have forgotten about her, she'll have a few quid in the bank, and someone else wil be flavour of the month for the itching ears brigade.
At what point will you believe that the tribulations are imminent? Do you believe that they will happen at some point? Did Noah cry repentance for 120 years and preach to the people what was coming? And all of those people got tired of it and most likely exclaimed that it would never happen. That they had heard about it for so long that it was foolishness. And they mocked Noah and laughed at him. And he gave them one last chance before he shut the door to the ark. And suddenly the sky darkened and the rains began. Who looked foolish then? I guarantee we will see the same thing again. Sadly history will repeat itself.
Catherine,
The tribulations have already started and have been with us for some time. Just watch the news.
Have we seen earthquakes in diverse places? Tsunami's? Volcanic eruptions? Devastating wars? Plagues? Famine? Men's hearts failing them? People calling good bad and bad good? Distress? Rampant immorality? Greed? Pride? Violence...... the list goes on.
Will these thing intensify? According to the scriptures they will. Do we need Julie Rowe to tell us this and make herself fame and fortune in the process? No we don't. Remember, one of the signs of the times are false prophets.
Robinhood, you never respond to anything in a post that is obviously correct. You skirt every valid point. Your only defense is the issue of money. I just can't take you seriously anymore.

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 7:46 am**

I looked on LDS Press Releases and can find no mention of this Eric Hawkins announcement. Where is KUTV getting this?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/news-releases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **September 26th, 2015, 8:21 am**

Robin Hood wrote: Catherine,
The tribulations have already started and have been with us for some time. Just watch the news.
Have we seen earthquakes in diverse places? Tsunami's? Volcanic eruptions? Devastating wars? Plagues? Famine? Men's hearts failing them? People calling good bad and bad good? Distress? Rampant immorality? Greed? Pride? Violence...... the list goes on.
Will these thing intensify? According to the scriptures they will. Do we need Julie Rowe to tell us this and make herself fame and fortune in the process? No we don't. Remember, one of the signs of the times are false prophets.

The tribulations that are to come are will be horrific, not inconvenient and abhorrent.
Like Noah's, Sodom and Gomorrah evil.
Devastation will cover the Earth.

Don't know where J.R. has claimed to be a Prophet.
Why do those that share a personal experience get dumped on for encouraging others to look to the Savoir, get spiritually in tune, follow the Prophet?
I in no way look to her as someone to follow, she has not asked that.

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Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.

Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.

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Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.

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Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.

Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.

Re: LDS Church pushes back at spurious claims of imminent apocalypse.