A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
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AI2.0
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by AI2.0 »

Tabula Rasa wrote:
5tev3 wrote:Law of witnesses anyone? Not a good idea to trust anonymous things that magically appear.

Agree with Fransisco, the vision clearly prophesies falsely. So what if it matches things that are supposed to happen, if anyone wants something else like that I can type one up for you ;)
Well, it "magically appeared" in Wilford Woodruff's journal when he was the Prophet. Seems strange he would include something in his journal that was filled with clear false prophesies, etc. but to each his own. Makes you wonder what all else we read about in the various Prophets' journals (and other books) that is false crap... :-?
Not quite; If you read the link I provided you'll see how it came be in his journal--to make it easier, I'll quote it here:
On June 15, 1878, assistant church historian Wilford Woodruff (who later became the church’s fourth president) spent most of the day in the church Historian’s Office. Later, he recorded in his journal that while he was in the office, he “had a vary strange vision Copied.” In the same journal entry, Woodruff transcribed a copy of the peculiar vision.
He was not the church President, he was the Assistant church historian and he explains that he copied a 'very strange' vision. He left a space to put in the name, but it was never filled because the author was never identified.

EmmaLee
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by EmmaLee »

Thank you. Why did Woodruff put it/leave it in his journal? Perhaps he thought it an interesting oddity or something. Ah well.

Plus, it makes me wonder, who gave him the vision in the first place - nobody knows?

"Later, he recorded in his journal that while he was in the office, he “had a vary strange vision Copied.” In the same journal entry, Woodruff transcribed a copy of the peculiar vision."

Copied from whom? Or from where? Maybe that was already covered and I missed it.

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WarMonger
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by WarMonger »

francisco.colaco wrote:WarmongerI am suspicious of Julie Rowe's words. I was kinda sympathetic until I read the second paragraph of her book. One putative prophet, when claims to speak as a prophet, is falsified by one simple booboo. When they speak as a person, I do not care about errors. Julie Rowe was speaking as a prophet, in her words, claiming to tell a vision she had. Remember, she got the "another planet", if I recall correctely, by the mouth of John.

Yes, a prophet when claiming to speak as a prophet has no room to err. And Mr. Snuffer took years of longbearing by the Church until excomunication was set on him.
You are very pedantic and strain at a gnat yet swallow a camel. This does not contradict raveled scripture, only your narrow fault seeking mind that is making rash assumptions.. How does that paragraph distract from the gospel of Christ and led you astray. We need to judge righteous judgement, those things that make us believe in Christ are from God, that which does not is of the devil. Nothing in her words detract from the Gospel of Christ. Her words do not persuade men to do evil. You judge using your own preconceived ideas, you do not judge the way the scriptures teach us to judge. You simply make a rash judgement based on a preconceived idea of the spirit world, and reject all the good and the spirit of the message.

Moroni 7:14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

"The tree looked somewhat like a Willow tree, but it was not a Willow tree. I asked John about the tree and specifically asked if it was some kind of Willow tree, since I had never seen a tree like that before. John told me it was a tree not found here on the earth. He added there were many of the Lord’s creations found in the Spirit World that were not on the earth, including trees, shrubbery, flowers, animals and other of God’s beautiful creations."
Rowe, Julie (2014-05-13T14:00:00+00:00). A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil (Kindle Locations 282-285). Springcreek Books. Kindle Edition.

J.Rowe never claimed to be prophet for the world, You have no understanding how visions and revelation is received. I will leave you to your deriding and judgmental nature, it seems to make you fell good about yourself, and deny the many visions and revelations given.

Doctrine and Covenants 64:11
11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

WarMonger wrote:
francisco.colaco wrote:WarmongerI am suspicious of Julie Rowe's words. I was kinda sympathetic until I read the second paragraph of her book. One putative prophet, when claims to speak as a prophet, is falsified by one simple booboo. When they speak as a person, I do not care about errors. Julie Rowe was speaking as a prophet, in her words, claiming to tell a vision she had. Remember, she got the "another planet", if I recall correctely, by the mouth of John.

Yes, a prophet when claiming to speak as a prophet has no room to err. And Mr. Snuffer took years of longbearing by the Church until excomunication was set on him.
You are very pedantic and strain at a gnat yet swallow a camel. This does not contradict raveled scripture, only your narrow fault seeking mind that is making rash assumptions.. How does that paragraph distract from the gospel of Christ and led you astray. We need to judge righteous judgement, those things that make us believe in Christ are from God, that which does not is of the devil. Nothing in her words detract from the Gospel of Christ. Her words do not persuade men to do evil. You judge using your own preconceived ideas, you do not judge the way the scriptures teach us to judge. You simply make a rash judgement based on a preconceived idea of the spirit world, and reject all the good and the spirit of the message.

Moroni 7:14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

"The tree looked somewhat like a Willow tree, but it was not a Willow tree. I asked John about the tree and specifically asked if it was some kind of Willow tree, since I had never seen a tree like that before. John told me it was a tree not found here on the earth. He added there were many of the Lord’s creations found in the Spirit World that were not on the earth, including trees, shrubbery, flowers, animals and other of God’s beautiful creations."
Rowe, Julie (2014-05-13T14:00:00+00:00). A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil (Kindle Locations 282-285). Springcreek Books. Kindle Edition.

J.Rowe never claimed to be prophet for the world, You have no understanding how visions and revelation is received. I will leave you to your deriding and judgmental nature, it seems to make you fell good about yourself, and deny the many visions and revelations given.

Doctrine and Covenants 64:11
11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
Thanks for quoting from her book. It was as I remembered. If you quote scripture, do read D&C 130, about the middle. I asked you where it was because I could not find it at the time, but remembered it minutes later.

Nothing good can come from energy healing, by phone group session. At 25 a pop she will make a decent dough out of fame. Makes me suspicious. I betcha she is not an MD nor a licensed psychiatrist. At the end people will have lost 25 bucks and at the he very least the time they have invested there. And while they are diverted by the energy crackpots, the sickness progresses and when they go to a bona-fide doctor (even a licensed MD with a reasonable dose of alternative medicine, which can be understood) they are as good as dead. I do not know about the US, but here she would be criminally responsible for all the deaths her kind of snake oil produces, and for illegal practise of medicine.

Finally, a prophet is not a title. It is an activity. When someone pretends to say something from God, he is a prophet. He who tells an inspired dream is a prophet, or pretends to be one. As he does so, he either is fully correct or is a false prophet.

(I do remember a bloke here writing that in 2009 Julie Rowe did not speak of NDE, but of dreams. The NDE story, according to him, appeared much later.)

All suspicions added, I will choose to stay clear of Julie Rowe UNTIL the Church sanctions her, which I find she never will. Actually, I betcha Julie Rowe will coming to an utter descredit in October --- out of her own folly. She is drunk with power, in my opinion, her mouth betrayed her in Rexburg, and short after the General Conference it shall be known.

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Robin Hood
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Robin Hood »

You're right. Julie Rowe is a big fraud and her folly will soon be revealed for all to see.
It doesn't matter to her though because by that time she'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

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Francisco, you say a "Finally, a prophet is not a title. It is an activity. When someone pretends to say something from God, he is a prophet. He who tells an inspired dream is a prophet, or pretends to be one. As he does so, he either is fully correct or is a false prophet."

Actually, a Prophet is a a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

Sandinista wrote:Francisco, you say a "Finally, a prophet is not a title. It is an activity. When someone pretends to say something from God, he is a prophet. He who tells an inspired dream is a prophet, or pretends to be one. As he does so, he either is fully correct or is a false prophet."

Actually, a Prophet is a a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.
Yes, of course it is a title also. No disputes there. But others apart from the fifteen apostles we have ordained can prophesy in the name of Christ, when given the proper transient authority by Jesus Christ. That *seldom* happens, but does happen. We have a report of three hundred prophets with Samuel and even Saul began to prophesy --- what one makes of the word prophesy here is probably a bit hazy. We have a prophecy of a temple near the lake among the mountains as a token of the restoration of the true gospel, and that is a written prophecy from the 18th Century (well within the Great Apostasy) that was stored in a library in Bern, I believe, and is generally considered so by the Church. In fact, I think you find a copy of it in LeGrand Richards' book, A Marvellous Work and a Wonder.

Whether ordained or transient, truth from the Lord is never wrong. 1% wrong and it is not of the Lord. That is the busilis of my arguments against the supposed John Taylor's vision and Julie Rowe. Of Spencer from John Pontius, I have never read it and thus hold no opinion.

In Julie Rowe's case, if she had written «the tree seemed of another planet» or «I had the impression the tree did not exist on Earth» or even «such a strange tree had to be from another planet», i'd frown amused, yet let it pass. Personal opinion --- and even a prophet is entitled to be wrong on personal opinion --- is like a brain: everyone possesses one and misuses it often. But no: in her account, she asked John and John replied something that goes against the revealed truth and she transcribed the answer. That settles it.

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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by EmmaLee »

Sandinista wrote:Actually, a Prophet is a a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.
Just to clarify, Prophet is not an office of the priesthood. No one is ever ordained as a prophet in the Church. It is a calling (like Nursery Leader), so they are set apart, but are not ordained.

Here are the offices of the priesthood that men are ordained to -
Deacon
Teacher
Priest
Bishop
Elder
High Priest
Patriarch
Seventy
Apostle

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2 ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.lds.org/topics/melchizedek- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Sandinista »

Tabula Rasa wrote:
Sandinista wrote:Actually, a Prophet is a a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.
Just to clarify, Prophet is not an office of the priesthood. No one is ever ordained as a prophet in the Church. It is a calling (like Nursery Leader), so they are set apart, but are not ordained.

Here are the offices of the priesthood that men are ordained to -
Deacon
Teacher
Priest
Bishop
Elder
High Priest
Patriarch
Seventy
Apostle

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2 ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.lds.org/topics/melchizedek- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think we are splitting hairs a little. Yes, you are correct that an "Apostle" is a Priesthood office while a Prophet is a "calling". We tend to use the two interchangeably in the Church today. We also say things like "the President of the Church is the Lord's Prophet on the Earth today" by virtue of his "calling" within the Church. But in order to have that "calling" he has to hold the Priesthood office of "Apostle". Similarly, a "Stake President", which is a calling, has to hold the Priesthood office of "High Priest".

Let me re-phrase my objection to all those who seek "prophecy" outside of the Lord's "chain of command" by simply quoting Russell M. Nelson:

“All leaders in the Lord’s Church are called by proper authority. No prophet or any other leader in this Church, for that matter, has ever called himself or herself. No prophet has ever been elected. The Lord made that clear when He said, ‘Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you’ (John 15:16). You and I do not ‘vote’ on Church leaders at any level. We do, though, have the privilege of sustaining them” (“Sustaining the Prophets,” Oct. 2014 general conference)."

The only people called as "Apostles" and sustained as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators" in our time are the 15 Apostles that comprise the first presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve (when we have a full Quorum of course which we will have again when two new members are called and sustained). If you want to consider others being able to receive "prophecy" for anyone other than themselves you can do that. But I'd be careful as it's a slippery slope that leads to apostasy. We have a lot of recent examples to prove it.

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WarMonger
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by WarMonger »

francisco.colaco wrote:In Julie Rowe's case, if she had written «the tree seemed of another planet» or «I had the impression the tree did not exist on Earth» or even «such a strange tree had to be from another planet», i'd frown amused, yet let it pass. Personal opinion --- and even a prophet is entitled to be wrong on personal opinion --- is like a brain: everyone possesses one and misuses it often. But no: in her account, she asked John and John replied something that goes against the revealed truth and she transcribed the answer. That settles it.
That does not settle it, it is not against revealed truth, the scripture does not say no beings from other worlds will come to earth, it just said they wont administer to this earth!!, how is a plant life form from another world in the spirit world administering to those in mortality on this earth. this earth the surface upon which we stand is also not the spirit world, the spirit world is a different dimension. Having never been there you make very rash judgement of things that you know nothing about. Using that same type of harsh and illogical connections you make, one can determine the bile and Joseph Smith is a false prophets easy to do, all the anti Mormons do it.

You really think that J.Rowe and the editors of her books do not know that scripture, the same with her account of Joseph Smith and Moroni, that is what she saw and is not contradictory, many others that that have been to the spirit world, including Spence say they saw the same thing.

EmmaLee
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by EmmaLee »

Sandinista wrote:
Tabula Rasa wrote:
Sandinista wrote:Actually, a Prophet is a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.
Just to clarify, Prophet is not an office of the priesthood. No one is ever ordained as a prophet in the Church. It is a calling (like Nursery Leader), so they are set apart, but are not ordained.

Here are the offices of the priesthood that men are ordained to -
Deacon
Teacher
Priest
Bishop
Elder
High Priest
Patriarch
Seventy
Apostle

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2 ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.lds.org/topics/melchizedek- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The only people called as "Apostles" and sustained as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators" in our time are the 15 Apostles that comprise the first presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve (when we have a full Quorum of course which we will have again when two new members are called and sustained). If you want to consider others being able to receive "prophecy" for anyone other than themselves you can do that. But I'd be careful as it's a slippery slope that leads to apostasy. We have a lot of recent examples to prove it.
Wow, lots of judgement and assumptions against me for merely quoting the Church's own handbook to correct the underlined mistakes. @-) Words have meaning, otherwise, I doubt this information I posted would be in the Doctrine & Covenants and the CHI. Did I give an opinion on anyone/anything else in my post? Nope. But carry on with putting words in my mouth and accusing me falsely (no slippery slopes involved there, I'm sure).

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WarMonger
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by WarMonger »

Sandinista wrote: If you want to consider others being able to receive "prophecy" for anyone other than themselves you can do that. But I'd be careful as it's a slippery slope that leads to apostasy. We have a lot of recent examples to prove it.
any one can prophecy it is a gift of the spirit!!
The general authority often commend people for blogs that they have put up on families etc.. in general conference. We are encouraged to post our views of the church and our testimony. So a person posts or writes about their vision, that does not make them usurping PH authority - we are encouraged to do as much.... I see harsh judgement I see :ymsick: green with jealousy :ymsick:
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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

Warmonger,

Everything goes against the revealed truth. If trees can mix, why not men? If men can mix, couldn't they administer?

I came to an enlightening article from Onsdag, well written and with solid argumentation, where he points out that Mrs Rowe wrote having seen old folks and children in the spirit world. You will find it right in this forum.

She might have been in la-la-make-me-dough-make-me-famous land. Not in the spirit world. There she was not.

Warmonger, I have no ill against you. I do not know if Mrs Rowe is a fool or is making fools out of her audience. One or another it is. Even if her message was adonimous, which it probably is barring some very important parts, it did not proceed from God. That is clear to me. Was it from the adversary of concocted by Mrs Rowe to make money and gather people to her illegal practise of medicine? I do not care. Judges and psychologists are there to investigate and answer those questions.

If something smells fishy from cadaverine, putrescine and sulphur oxide, I do not put it in my plate and eat. I stand clear and eat something else. In doubt, I stay away.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

Sandinista,

Actually, a Patriarch is considered a prophet for his own circle of influence, the stake.

Prophecy is actually a very disseminated item, if you look at it. Prophet is not divination of the future. It means to receive and pass instructions from the Lord. A bishop can receive instructions from the spirit to his own ward and a parent or, in absence, an elder brother or the home teachers, to a family. Lehi received revelation concerning his own family, and so did I at times.

Prophecy for the whole world is concentrated at the proper authorities. I do not disavow that some members may receive personal revelation about their future and some even may be given instructions to publish parts of it. That is a sure way for the Lord to make known what the institutional church cannot say without impairing severely the missionary work and endanger members' lives.

As an absurd example, were the Church to state all the dictatorships would be abolished in two years time, our members in Angola, Congo and China would be persecuted. And the missionary work ground to a halt there.

Now, when one claims to prophecy, his must be flawless in what he says. For if it comes from the Lord, it should be correct and come to pass as is. If it is not, it did not come from the Lord, which does not I mean it came from the adversary either. There is what I call "chili night dreams" and the only divine thing there is the way I prepare the beans. ;)

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WarMonger
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by WarMonger »

francisco.colaco wrote:Warmonger,
Everything goes against the revealed truth. If trees can mix, why not men? If men can mix, couldn't they administer?
You make more assumptions, it heaven and the spirit world it is "thou will be done on earth as it is in heaven", No, if there will be visitors from other worlds, but they would not administer. In heaven the law is kept.

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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

WarMonger wrote:
francisco.colaco wrote:Warmonger,
Everything goes against the revealed truth. If trees can mix, why not men? If men can mix, couldn't they administer?
You make more assumptions, it heaven and the spirit world it is "thou will be done on earth as it is in heaven", No, if there will be visitors from other worlds, but they would not administer. In heaven the law is kept.
One of us is stretching the language, Warmonger. I tend to apply the Occam's razor, being a person of mathematical upbringing. I think I am correct in thinking Julie Rowe could not possibly have seen any individuals of any species of any kind, if those are not found on Earth, in the Spirit Kingdom.

If there is room for you to doubt there, Onsdag has pointed out correctly that no one will see nor elderly people nor children in the Spirit Kingdom. That alone is a showstopper.

Besides there is this lil' thing of selling energy healing by phone. Were it not serious and suscipting a following, I would be rolling off the floor laughing on that one.

There is at the least one fool in Julie Rowe's case: she who speaks or he who listens.

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Sandinista »

francisco.colaco wrote:Sandinista,

Actually, a Patriarch is considered a prophet for his own circle of influence, the stake.

Prophecy is actually a very disseminated item, if you look at it. Prophet is not divination of the future. It means to receive and pass instructions from the Lord. A bishop can receive instructions from the spirit to his own ward and a parent or, in absence, an elder brother or the home teachers, to a family. Lehi received revelation concerning his own family, and so did I at times.

Prophecy for the whole world is concentrated at the proper authorities. I do not disavow that some members may receive personal revelation about their future and some even may be given instructions to publish parts of it. That is a sure way for the Lord to make known what the institutional church cannot say without impairing severely the missionary work and endanger members' lives.

As an absurd example, were the Church to state all the dictatorships would be abolished in two years time, our members in Angola, Congo and China would be persecuted. And the missionary work ground to a halt there.

Now, when one claims to prophecy, his must be flawless in what he says. For if it comes from the Lord, it should be correct and come to pass as is. If it is not, it did not come from the Lord, which does not I mean it came from the adversary either. There is what I call "chili night dreams" and the only divine thing there is the way I prepare the beans. ;)

You're right. I agree. What I was referring to is people who pretend to "prophecy" to the world outside of their specific stewardships. That's my "beef" with people who take what very well may be true visions, dreams, or revelation meant for themselves and those they have stewardship over and start to present it to the world in books. lectures, blogs, etc. That's where I begin to become suspect.

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Sandinista »

Tabula Rasa wrote:
Sandinista wrote:
Tabula Rasa wrote:
Sandinista wrote:Actually, a Prophet is a title and a Priesthood calling/office. That's why you sustain the First Presidency and the 12 as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators". A "prophet" is called by proper Priesthood authority, ordained and set apart, and given the Keys of that Priesthood office and calling.
Just to clarify, Prophet is not an office of the priesthood. No one is ever ordained as a prophet in the Church. It is a calling (like Nursery Leader), so they are set apart, but are not ordained.

Here are the offices of the priesthood that men are ordained to -
Deacon
Teacher
Priest
Bishop
Elder
High Priest
Patriarch
Seventy
Apostle

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2 ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.lds.org/topics/melchizedek- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The only people called as "Apostles" and sustained as "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators" in our time are the 15 Apostles that comprise the first presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve (when we have a full Quorum of course which we will have again when two new members are called and sustained). If you want to consider others being able to receive "prophecy" for anyone other than themselves you can do that. But I'd be careful as it's a slippery slope that leads to apostasy. We have a lot of recent examples to prove it.
Wow, lots of judgement and assumptions against me for merely quoting the Church's own handbook to correct the underlined mistakes. @-) Words have meaning, otherwise, I doubt this information I posted would be in the Doctrine & Covenants and the CHI. Did I give an opinion on anyone/anything else in my post? Nope. But carry on with putting words in my mouth and accusing me falsely (no slippery slopes involved there, I'm sure).

I'm sorry. I did not mean to be judgmental or make accusations. Long day and I was probably too tired and should have just left it alone. Again, sorry I didn't mean to offend.

EmmaLee
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by EmmaLee »

No worries. :ymhug: We appear to agree on far more than not.

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Sandinista »

Tabula Rasa wrote:No worries. :ymhug: We appear to agree on far more than not.

I agree, and do enjoy your posts!

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francisco.colaco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by francisco.colaco »

Sandinista wrote:That's where I begin to become suspect.
Half of the Bible is comprised of people sharing their own experiences. That does not make me suspicious at all. For me to become suspicious there has to be one of three conditions:
  • * Criticise the General Authorities (Denver Snuffer did, Nemelka did, Julie Rowe did not)

    * Deny the power of God (neither Denver Snuffer nor Julie Rowe did it, Nemelka did)

    * Be inconsistent with the revealed truth (all three fail miserabily this litmus test)
I do not care about the messenger, I do care about the message. John the Baptist was probably not the best of sights after long stays in the desert, and yet he was, according to Christ himself, the most important prophet up to that date. Some people did prophesy during the Apostacy. We accept those prophecies, I have mentioned one of them. Even the prophecy of a Quaker lady in Canada about the Cardston Temple was accepted by a mission president who received a letter from her. Sometimes the Spirit is *transiently* conferred to an individual, which will utter prophecy (in the sense of carrying a true message from the Lord), and "more not than often" some people will be inspired to publish some or all that they have received. These are *rare instances*, and you probably could count them all with your fingers and toes.

We are *NOT* obliged to take those prophecies at face value. In fact, they are *rare* and we have a fine collection of revealed truth by accepted authorities --- and George Albert Smith's prophecies which were redacted by faithful people. :)

The message of Julie Rowe is ridden with so many doctrinal flaws that it's divine provenance is discarded. 90% truth and 10% lie is still a lie. And a lie does not come from God.

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Sandinista
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by Sandinista »

All good points. Thanks.

sushi_chef
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by sushi_chef »

so, urrrr...., hopefully horseshoe prophecy is genuinely correct one....


"The Horseshoe Prophecy

Monday, 25 August 2008 09:13

A Remarkable Prophecy By President John Taylor As Told by Edward Lunt, An Ordinance Worker in the Mesa Temple

The following incident occurred at my father's home in Cedar City, at the time a stake conference was being held in that city, at which President John Taylor and George A. Smith were present.

Apostle Smith was asked to conduct the conference, as President Taylor wished to rest after his having held meetings in the different wards and stakes between Salt Lake City and Cedar City. President Taylor asked Elder George A. Smith to start the conference, as he wished to rest until the afternoon meeting. President Taylor, with some of the authorities, was staying at the home of my parents during this conference.

President Taylor wished to go to his room and lie down. He asked my mother to awaken him in time for the afternoon conference, as he feared he might oversleep and thus fail to arrive at the conference in time.
My mother was busy preparing dinner for the visitors but was surprised to see President Taylor come into the kitchen so soon after retiring for his much needed rest. He immediately started telling mother of a most remarkable vision that he had just had while in his room.

He stated that he saw that Salt Lake City would become a great city with many beautiful paved roads and streets of cement construction, and that the people had become wealthy. He saw that the city extended almost to the point of the mountain south of the new 1951 State prison.

The people, he saw, had become quite indifferent to the counsel and advice of the authorities of the church, and were more interested in the accumulation of wealth than they were in living their religion. He told mother that he saw that war had been started, and that so great was the destruction of life within the city that blood ran down the gutters as though it were streams of water, and the violence was such that it would cause the destruction of the beautiful city. The people were fighting among themselves until it became necessary to remove the church records across the Colorado river.

President Taylor said to mother, "If you are alive at that time, be sure that you are not behind the Church records, because after the Church records leave and are made secure, the very powers of hell would be turned loose, and there will be such destruction that there will be but little life remain, ---not only in Salt Lake City, but in adjoining cities also. And in Jackson County, Missouri civilization will become entirely extinct, and all means of transportation such as rail roads and highways will be destroyed, and the only means of travel will be on foot.

All means of manufacturing will also be entirely destroyed. Be sure when you see these things come that you have buttons, needles, cloth and things to work with as much as possible, to make yourselves clothing, because all tools and every kind of machinery will be destroyed. It will be such a destructive war that in comparison to the sufferings and the drivings of the people of Nauvoo, it would be only a drop in the bucket.

"One half of the Mormon people will entirely forsake their leaders, and half of the other half, because of their suffering, will leave the church. Many Mormons will die in the struggle, but the Lord will bless those who stick faithfully to the church and will bless them to the extent that they will not be destroyed."

He said that faithful Latter-day Saints would go to the south and would form a circle something like a horseshoe, before they return to Jackson County, Missouri. Said he, "Those only will be privileged to help build Jackson County who will be found willing and glad to obey the counsel and advice of the authorities who will be placed over them, and who will seek counsel that they may be guided and protected from dire want and distress.

President Taylor also said that we will assist the Lamanites in building the New Jerusalem in Jackson county. He said that the vision to him appeared so terrible that he besought the Lord to close it up, but he saw that those who would keep the commandments and adhere to the authorities of the church would be the ones who would survive and not be destroyed. And that the lord would protect them as he did the children of Israel.

The above experience my mother told to me many, many times; and she held this great experience very sacred.

Subscribed and sworn to this 28th day of June, 1951.

/s/Edward Lunt

"
http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/prop ... e-prophecy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



" "John the Revelator": The Written Revelations of John Taylor
In February 1879, the anti-Mormon Salt Lake Tribune nicknamed John Taylor “John the Revelator.”[1] Though meant to disparage President Taylor, this appellation echoed what many Latter-day Saints believed—that John Taylor, as the presiding Apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ, was the successor of the first two prophets, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and an inspired recipient of the word of God in his own right.

John Taylor believed in continuing revelation, a major principle of the restored gospel that he accepted when he joined the Church in Canada in 1836. Nearly forty years later he said, “We believe that it is necessary for man to be placed in communication with God, . . . not revelation in former times, but present and immediate revelation.”
....
"
https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/champion-l ... ohn-taylor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


horseshoe prophecy taylor
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UTF ... 0%20taylor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


crossing Colorado river, does it mean going into hopi land??
perhaps hopis life style helps farewell to babylon??

sushi_ hopi
search.php?keywords=hopi&terms=all&auth ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

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LdsMarco
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by LdsMarco »

Here's a video

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AI2.0
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Re: A vision of the last days purpoted to be by John Taylor

Post by AI2.0 »

LdsMarco wrote: August 4th, 2017, 12:13 am Here's a video

LDSmarco.

Did you even read the title and OP of this thread before you posted this video? I would not recommend anyone watching this video, the narrator clearly has spent no time researching this 'vision' because at 1:50 he says it's 'true'. 'True' how? It has never been proven to have been a vision from John Taylor, and in fact, all the evidence points to it NOT being a vision by John Taylor--he was the Prophet at the time the vision was circulated and he never claimed it was his. It was also denounced a number of times. This thread was to share with others to not fall for the claims made about this supposed vision given to John Taylor. It was not given to John Taylor, it was anonymous and when it was first circulated, people tried to attribute it to Joseph F. Smith (he denied it) and not until John Taylor was long dead did they try to claim it was HIS vision.

Just the fact that people have been trying to prop this 'vision' up and make claims to bolster it's authority, makes me distrust it.

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