Church Doctrine Says We Support the Modern State of Israel

[Tony]

I saw an article by Brian M. on Mormon Chronicle titled "Should Latter-day Saints Support the Modern State of Israel?"

Brian's article erroneously claims, "The modern State of Israel is not the same as the promised return of the House of Israel; these modern Jews are not God’s chosen people."

Contrary to Brian's claim, modern Jews most certainly are God’s chosen people. The following was taken directly from a 1991 Ensign article.

On October 24, 1841, Elder Orson Hyde of the Quorum of the Twelve climbed the Mount of Olives and recorded a prayer of dedication previously given him by revelation. In the prayer, he asked the Lord to inspire “kings and the powers of the earth” to help “restore the kingdom unto Israel.” He also prayed that the Lord would remember his promises to all the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Sometime after Orson’s baptism, the Prophet Joseph Smith gave Orson a most unusual blessing: “In due time thou shalt go to Jerusalem, the land of thy fathers, and be a watchman unto the house of Israel; and by thy hands shall the Most High do a great work, which shall prepare the way and greatly facilitate the gathering together of that people.”

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote a letter in 1840, noting that the Jews “have been scattered abroad among the Gentiles for a long period; and in our estimation, the time of the commencement of their return to the Holy Land has already arrived.”

During the April 1840 conference, the Prophet commissioned Elder Hyde to go to Palestine and there dedicate that land for the return of the Jewish people. After a long and arduous trip fraught with suffering and personal sacrifice, Elder Hyde arrived in Jerusalem. On Sunday, 24 October 1841, Elder Hyde climbed the Mount of Olives, and just as he had seen in the vision, offered a heavenly inspired dedicatory prayer.

With the keys of the gathering restored and the land dedicated, the Lord’s Spirit began to move among Jews throughout the world. Many who were not even aware of their Jewish ancestry began feeling restlessly Jewish; others who had ignored their heritage felt their hearts begin to turn. A common desire began to build among many Jews to find their roots in their ancient homeland.

It is no coincidence that historical annals point to the 1840s as a period of awakening among Jews dispersed throughout the world. Out of this new dawn arose men of influence like Moses Hess, Joseph Salvador, Moses Montefiore, Leo Pinsker, and Theodor Herzl. Having been touched by the spirit of gathering, they began to instill in Jews everywhere the desire to return to their ancient homeland.

At first, Jews began returning by the hundreds. But eventually they were returning by thousands and then by tens and hundreds of thousands.

So that's the article. The tribe of Judah is returning and prophecy is being fulfilled.

[samizdat]

Look at my blog where I put down Ezra Taft Benson's 1976 talk to a Jewish audience. There are other quotes too that support Israel.

I do not know if Benyamin Netanyahu is descended of David or not, but the truth of the matter is that he seems to be fulfilling multiple prophecies.

He is formally calling the Israelis home.

And like Esther before him, he is going to the superpower of the world to evade what could be a Persian plot to kill the Jews...and all on the eve of Purim.

[inho]

Acknowledging that Jews are of the House of Israel (by heritage) doesn't imply that we should support the state of Israel. Obviously, it doesn't imply that we should oppose the state of Israel either. That should be decided according to what the state of Israel is doing.

[Original_Intent]

The OP is very logically flawed.

The Ensign is not inerrant scripture. I would like to know who the author of that Ensign article was. Regardless of who it was, that individual was not infallible.

Now that doesn't disprove one way or another the initial claim about modern Israel. The point I am making is the "proofs" stated for that being the case simply don't make the case.

I for one believe that the modern state of Israel is intermingled with the House of Judah, but also with those spoken of in the Book of Revelation:

Revelation 2:9
King James Version

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Revelation 3:9
King James Version

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

So the Book of Revelation warns us of those claiming to be Jews who are not Jews - and says that in truth they are the Synagogue of Satan. I'd say it is very important to not be misled and distinguish properly between the two.

There are certainly many church leaders that indicate that the creation of the current state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy, and I believe them. I'm not aware of anything scriptural or otherwise that says that we support the modern state of Israel unconditionally, and I think that the OP makes a great leap to try to support that - one which I am not convinced of at all.

[slimjamm]

The current State of Israel, and what they have been doing is absolutely not to be supported! Especially by any saint.

[larsenb]

The current State of Israel, and what they have been doing is absolutely not to be supported! Especially by any saint.

One of toughies for LDS is the paradox that it is difficult to describe the State of Israel as being very righteous or worthy of emulation.
A LOT has been written on that subject. Most LDS gloss over some very ugly aspects exhibited by current and past Israeli governments and the wars they have been involved in, including the current one against the Palestinians, as well as with events involved in its very founding.

I found the recent spectacle of well-fed and dressed and comfortable Israeli's putting out lawn chairs and picnic tables, using video cameras and binoculars to enjoy the light show caused by the massive bombing of populated Palestinian regions, quite sickening, for instance.

To get a better flavor of what I'm talking about, all you have to do is an in-depth study of their attack on the USS Liberty. But there's much more.

I'm willing to believe, however, that the founding of Israel, as devious as it may have been, could still be a part of the gathering. But I think one makes a mistake to ignore that it may also be mixed up with not very nice things and the people that perpetrate them.

Barry Chamish, an Israeli investigative reporter, had to flee Israel for his life; and he has done a good job of documenting the criminality of much of its current and past leadership. Their are some malevolent currents that run in those circles; certainly atheism, arrogance, and eddies that persist from older movements such Shabtai Tzvi Zionism.

Netanyau has been bending over backward to create some false-flag event he can use to attack Iran. Does he have opposition in Israel on this issue? Of course, including a former head of the Mossad and many others.

The ultimate paradox, is that they may be largely responsible for bringing the wrath of the world on their head, and for good reasons; ultimately causing the world to go up against them.

At the very least, one makes a mistake to regard Israel in stark black and white terms, in my strongly held view.

[Tony]

The OP is very logically flawed.

The Ensign is not inerrant scripture. I would like to know who the author of that Ensign article was. Regardless of who it was, that individual was not infallible.

Of course the Ensign is not scripture. There is no “scripture” regarding the Prophet Joseph Smith commissioning Elder Hyde to go to Palestine and there dedicate that land for the return of the Jewish people.

You might try reading the article about that mission, which includes, among other critical facts, the Prophet Joseph Smith’s statement that the Jews “have been scattered abroad among the Gentiles for a long period; and in our estimation, the time of the commencement of their return to the Holy Land has already arrived.”

And since you are interested, the author of the article is David B. Galbraith, an associate professor of political science at BYU who spent fifteen tears as director of BYU’s Jerusalem Center. Are you under the impression that he was just making up a story?

Maybe I should have left out the fact that I got the information from an Ensign article. That way, you would have nothing to disparage, unless, for some reason, you want to disparage the facts about Orson Hyde and Joseph Smith and the trip to the Holy Land.

[AI2.0]

The current State of Israel, and what they have been doing is absolutely not to be supported! Especially by any saint.

I don't really care whether you or others approve of Israel or not.

What I care about is the FACT that Orson Hyde was sent to Palestine and by Joseph Smith, the Prophet and was told to dedicate the land for the return of the jews. Orson Hyde accomplished this in 1841. Since that time events have taken place and the Jewish people of the world have returned to their promised land and continue to do so today.

So, yes, any LDS person who knows and understands their church teachings will support the Modern state of Israel. The scriptures are being fulfilled as we speak and only uninspired, distracted or deceived people will not see it--whether they are members of the church or not.

[larsenb]

The current State of Israel, and what they have been doing is absolutely not to be supported! Especially by any saint.

I don't really care whether you or others approve of Israel or not.

What I care about is the FACT that Orson Hyde was sent to Palestine and by Joseph Smith, the Prophet and was told to dedicate the land for the return of the jews. Orson Hyde accomplished this in 1841. Since that time events have taken place and the Jewish people of the world have returned to their promised land and continue to do so today.

So, yes, any LDS person who knows and understands their church teachings will support the Modern state of Israel. The scriptures are being fulfilled as we speak and only uninspired, distracted or deceived people will not see it--whether they are members of the church or not.

Thanks for providing a timely and perfect example of what I mentioned in my previous post when I said:

One of toughies for LDS is the paradox that it is difficult to describe the State of Israel as being very righteous or worthy of emulation. A LOT has been written on that subject. Most LDS gloss over some very ugly aspects exhibited by current and past Israeli governments and the wars they have been involved in, including the current one against the Palestinians, as well as with events involved in its very founding.

But I should have elaborated about this paradox (perhaps better described as a dilemma). It involves at least sidling up to the view and belief that Israel can do no wrong, because of what we believe regarding the destiny of Israel and the return of the Jews. So when Israel DOES do wrong (by government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise, or even by individual Israeli citizens, etc., we may experience a slight cognitive dissonance, but still come down on the side of 'Israel can do no wrong', and dismiss everything else.

An odd dilemma for LDS, in my view, which doesn't really serve the search for truth.

I guess I should give you at least an ironic 'thumbs up'.

[oxbloodangel]

I thought this was common knowledge in the church. It is a matter of church history and prophecy. Remember, whether by my own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. -God

This doesn't mean the chosen people are always righteous. We know that the protection will be removed in order for Armegeddon to occur, and the scriptures indicate that covenant peoples in their covenant lands will only be protected so long as a majority of the people are righteous.

As an American of pioneer heritage, I am more concerned with the Gadiantons in America than I am with the Gadiantons anywhere else.

As far as national righteousness goes, it can be measured somewhat by statistics, such as abortion rate, marriage and divorce rates, general attitude toward fornication reflected in laws and customs.

So yeah, much more worried about America's fall. Israel's fate has long been prophesied and I have no sway there. My sphere of influence is here, and each of us has a much larger sphere than we sometimes believe.

[Tony]

But I should have elaborated about this paradox (perhaps better described as a dilemma). It involves at least sidling up to the view and belief that Israel can do no wrong, because of what we believe regarding the destiny of Israel and the return of the Jews. So when Israel DOES do wrong (by government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise, or even by individual Israeli citizens, etc., we may experience a slight cognitive dissonance, but still come down on the side of 'Israel can do no wrong', and dismiss everything else.

WOW! Did God personally visit you and appoint you to be the judge of Israel so that you could judge the "government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise" and judge "individual Israeli citizens"?

How do you feel about what happened when Israel first took the land of Canaan, the land that God gave to them?

Does it bother you that Jericho was taken and destroyed?

How about when Joshua used an ambush to take the city of Ai and "set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the Lord"?

What do you think of the fact that "all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai"?

Joshua "utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai." Care to comment on that?

There's lots more concerning God's ancient covenant people and the wars they fought. They are now returning to the land that God gave them, the land that was dedicated to their return by our Church.

[Darren]

To be a Jew is to be a child of God. But to be a adherent to the Jewish Religion is to be an adherent to a false religion, a religion of the Apostate.

A majority of the race/culture that calls themselves Jews (80% - 90%), admit by the title they use, that they are not the blood descendents and patriarchal linage of Abraham and his great-...-grandfather Shem. By using that name they admit that they are not born through the linage of the patriarch Abraham. Most of the Jews today are Ashkenazi Jews. Lets look at the linage of an Ashnenazi Jews, that they claim to be a part of.

Genesis 10
1Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth....
2The sons of Japheth; Gomer,....
3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz....

Ashkenazi Jews are NOT the patriarchal and blood descendents of Shem and Abraham, they are the patriarchal and blood descendents of Japheth and Askenaz.

If you alert Ashkenazi Jews of this fact they call you (you being a person who is a blood descendent of the patriarchal linage of Abraham and Ephraim) an Anti-Semite, which means you are Anti-Shem-ite, or that you have something against the descendents of Shem.

Ashkenazi Jews are living under one of the greatest lies on this planet, that the decedents of Japheth through the Huns, that were made Jews by decree by the Exilarch, are by fiat edict adopted in as the blood and patriarchal descendents of Shem, Abraham and Judah.

Ashkenazi Jews are primarily the patriarchal and blood offspring of the Huns through Japheth, and have been brought in as the adherents of the false Orthodox Jewish Religion headed under the Apostate, the Exilarch, and maintained by the pharisee's Sanhedrin (that is Hebrew for a Greek Synhedrion, a top-down governmental system), as one of the ways to control the world and God's children through false teachings.

When members of the LDS Church do their genealogy they learn that they are the patriarchal and blood descendents of Shem, Abraham and typically Ephraim, (I know because I have my genealogy all the way back to Adam) we learn we are literally true Shemites. When an Ashkenazi Jew derides the true teachings of the gospel story, they are engaged in a behavior of Antisemitism.

Many times in the past large numbers of the Nordic lost tribes of Israel peoples lived in the Holy Land. The Nordic lost tribes of Israel are the bulk of the patriarchal bloodline of Shem and Abraham, and Nordic people are the bulk of the true Shem-ites.

The Huns invaded many of the domains of the lost tribes of Israel and virtually killed off all the Men in those areas they invaded. Then the Huns enslaved and raped the women. The children of the mother Shemites and father Japhethites became a mixed race that has lived predominately in Eastern Europe. The Kahn of the Tatar/Khazars, during the rule by him through the Sanhedrin of the Jews in Constantinople, bestowed upon these patriarchal decedents of Japheth through his grandson Ashkenaz and the Huns, mixed race, matriarchal decedents of Shem through Abraham, the false status of "Jews." This mixed race of Japheth and Shem are called Ashkenazi Jews, and make up more than 90 percent of what today are considered Jews. Compare to the 10 percent of darker skinned Sephardic Jews who are part of the true surviving decedents of the Israelites that did not move to Nordic Europe just before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, and they intermarried with other local non-Semite decedents.

The Apostate is planning to put a decedent of King David on the World's Throne in Jerusalem, and he is playing off many wannabe Exilarch type world leaders to see which will be most like Attila the Hun (or Alexander the Great "Murderer") in establishing his Exilarchy office among the false Jewish Religion's Sanhedrin management of world finances, a Babylon way to run the world.

The Geography of the Southeast end of Europe, where the Caucasian Mountains are, is that to the north of that Mountain Range is the “flat” Land that is called, in English, “the Caucasus,” that is to the east of the Black Sea, to the west of the Caspian Sea, and to the south of the Two Rivers, that come so close together, before one of them, the Don, goes west, to empty into the Black Sea, and the other, the Volga, southeast, to empty into the Caspian Sea. In Russian that Land has always been called, “the Kavkaz.”

In the Languages of the Peoples of Southeastern Europe the ending, “-ar,” is the ending for the Name of a People there. That goes for the name, “the Bulg-ars,” “the Mady-ars,” “the Av-ars,” “the Tat-ars,” etc., etc. The Russian name of the Tribe of the Huns who lived on the Kavkaz, whose Leader was the Leader of all of the Huns that had invaded into Europe, has been that they were, “the Kaz-ars.”

So, when those Byzantine Emperors asked those Vikings what it would take for them to stop terminating their Orthodoxy Money Religion among all of those Tribes of the Slav-ic Peoples of Eastern Europe, those Vikings did some thinking. It seemed like the Main Problem that was being caused to Western Europeans was the Byzantine Emperors continuing to pay the Leader of the Kazars, in the Kavkaz, to keep on getting Hunnic Tribes, from Central Eurasia, to invade and make the Lands between Constantinople and Western Europe the Lands of those Central European Tribes, that were constantly attacking Western Europeans, from their Countries of Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary etc. Those Russian Vikings told that Byzantine Emperor, “You stop paying those Kazars to keep recruiting Tribes of Hunnic Peoples from Central Eurasia to go west to attack Western Europeans, from their new Lands between Constantinople and Western Europe, and we will stop stopping the continuation of your Roman Orthodoxy Money Religion among the Peoples in our Land of Russia.”

However, then, when the Byzantine Emperors stopped doing that paying, the Kazars who lived on the Kavkaz, didn’t know what to do. The Byzantine Emperors, who ruled the Lands of their Byzantine Empire, to the north the Mediterranean Sea, from their “Naval Base Fortress,” at “the southwest corner” of the Black Sea, of Constantinople, had been doing so much of that ruling with the advice of the Exilarch, who was the Ruler over all of the Pharisees, who operated in the Lands all around the Mediterranean Sea, which Exilarch operated from his Headquarters, at the “quite protected” Location for him, near “the southeast corner” of the Black Sea. Not being that far away from him the Leader of the Kazars, whose title was that he was, “the Khan” of the Kazars, went to the Exilarch. That Khan of the Kazars told that Exilarch: “For so many Centuries now we have been doing what you have instructed us to do against the Nordic Peoples of Europe, for which the Byzantine Emperors have been paying us with their Gold Coins. We are continuing doing that for them, but THEY HAVE STOPPED PAYING US FOR THAT! All that we have been doing, for these Centuries now, is WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TELLING US TO DO. ‘What should we do now?’”

The Exilarch gave him his answer.

He said, “As the First-born Son of the First-born Son of the Ancient Israelite King David, I am the Messiah of the Pharisee Religion. I am their God. With that Power, as God, the God of the Pharisee Religion, I am hereby declaring that you and all of your Kazar People are being made into being My Jews. As My Jews I will continue showing you how to survive, and to prosper, working, through me, with the Empire of the Byzantine Emperors.” With that, that Khan of the Kazars went back, around the west end of the Caucasian Mountains to his Kazars’ Kavkaz, and told them that they had all been made, by the Miracle of the current Messiah and King of All Jews, their God, into Jews, and that, as such, they would continue being able to work for him, with him overseeing the payments to all of the Kazars for the Services that they are continuing to do for him.

When a group of the Pharisees living in what was, at that time, “Almost-all- Mohammedan-conquered Spain,” heard about this “Making of all of the Kazars of the Kavkaz into the Exilarch’s Jews,” they wrote a communication to the Khan of the Kazars, asking him if his People were the descendants of Shem, the Ancestor of the White Race. [At the time of the Flood Noah and his Wife and their Three Sons, along with their Wives, were the ones saved from the Flood by Noah’s Ark. Concerning those Three Sons, Japheth’s Wife was Yellow, Shem’s Wife was White, and Ham’s Wife was Black. So, Japheth’s Descendants are the Yellow Race, of the Orient, Ham’s Descendants are the Black Race, of Africa, and Shem’s Descendants are the White Race, of Eurasia.] When that Khan of the Kazars communicated back to those Pharisees that they were not the Descendants of Shem, but were Descendants of Japheth, those Pharisees, in that part of Spain that was Mohammedan, did some thinking about that. They said, “Even though Shem became the Patriarch of Mankind after Noah, he was not Noah’s Oldest Son. Japheth was seven years older than Shem. Japheth’s Oldest Son was Gomer, and Gomer’s Oldest Son was Ashkenaz. The name that we will use, by which All Jews can identify these Kazars, now become Jews, is that they are: “The Ashkenazim Jews,” the Descendants of the Oldest Son of the Oldest Son of Noah. But, among us, it will just be our way of calling them, ‘the Chinamen Jews,’”

Records say that Attila the Hun looked like most Chinese. However, because of the murder of so many of the White Men of Eastern Europe by Attila and the other Huns, and the enslavement to the Huns of their Wives and Children, so much of the People of Eastern Europe today, even though they, in general, have the physical features of Western Europeans, yet, so many of the people of Eastern Europe have “the Slant Eyes” of the Chinese, from their Hun Ancestors, [like the former Premier of Russia, Boris Yeltzin, or the famous Movie Star, of some Decades ago, Danny Kaye], along with those predominantly Western European features from all of those Huns’ Rape Victims.

[In Judaism there are Three “Kinds” of Jews. Those who are the Descendants from the Pharisees and the other Jews who lived in Mohammedan Spain are called, “the Sephardim Jews.” Those living across the North Africa that became Mohammedan, and who intermarried with the Mohammedans, are called, “Oriental Jews.” And, as referred to, all of those who are the Descendants of the Kazars are called, “Ashkenazi Jews.” If people ask those living in the USA today, “What kind of a Jew are you?” the answer that almost 100% of them will give back is that they are, “the Ashkenazi Jews,” (that is that so many of them do not have “a drop of the blood of the Ancient Israelite Tribe of Judah” in their veins.)]

So, the Khan of the Kazars and his Ashkenazi Jews, throughout so much of Southeastern and Central Europe, following the dictates of their new God, the Exilarch, operating from the southeast shore of the Black Sea, through the influence that he had throughout the Mohammedan World and throughout the Byzantine Empire, along with the Byzantine Emperors, operating from the southwest shore of the Black Sea, through the Control that those Emperors continued to have over the World’s International Trade, as it came into Europe from Asia through the Mesopotamian Valley, after it got to the North Shore Mediterranean Sea, continued using their Resources to keep on attacking, attacking, and attacking against Northern Europe, always getting closer to Northernmost Europe, Scandinavia. So, finally, the Vikings of Norway, also, had it. They made their Plans to, in 1098, attack the Fortress near the Northeast Shore of the Mediterranean Sea that controlled World Trade coming to the Mediterranean Sea, the Fortress of Antioch, and, then, to take the Control of World Trade away from the Attacking Byzantine Empire and the Exilarch, which Victory of theirs, there, is called, “the First Crusade.”

And, then, after that First Victory, those Vikings and their Associates worked through the next Century to build up their ability to attack and, at last, destroy the Byzantine Empire at its Headquarters of Constantinople, in 1204, thus bringing about the ending of there being such a thing as a Roman-Byzantine Empire, which ending goes by the “silly” name of, “the Fourth Crusade.” [The Exilarch’s surviving Organization has not wanted the World to know that the reason that the Vikings brought their Huge Navy into the Mediterranean Sea, to take over so much of it and World Trade, was to defeat the Byzantine Emperors and the Exilarch. So, they introduced the “silly” name, “the Crusades,” to mislead the World into the false idea that they were just trying to take Jerusalem away from control by the Mohammedans.]

However, then, after the Vikings and their Associates from Northern Europe had destroyed the Headquarters, at Constantinople, of the Roman Byzantine Empire, and soon after that, that Empire, which was what had brought the Babylonian, Persian, Greco-Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Religion of Money to Europe and to so much of the rest of the World, the Exilarch and the Byzantine Emperor, who had fled from Constantinople, on the southwest shore of the Black Sea, over to a hiding place at the Headquarters of the Exilarch, on the southeast corner of the Black Sea, MADE THEIR PLAN TO DESTROY THEIR ENEMY THE NORDIC PEOPLE OF EUROPE.

The Exilarch had an Associate who was the Leader of Mongols, by the name of, Temujin. The Exilarch and the Byzantine Emperor came up with their plans to help Temujin conquer virtually all of China and to take up the name, there, that he was, “Genghis Khan.” As Genghis Khan he put together THE LARGEST CAVALRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, OF 700,000 MOUNTED LANCERS.

Then, in the early 1200’s Genghis Khan led that Largest Cavalry in the History of the World, westward, out of China, to kill off and enslave the West European People, who dared to think that they could destroy the Roman-Byzantine Empire, that had given to the World its Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Religion of Money.

However, knowing that that Gigantic Murdering Cavalry was coming, the West Europeans built “a line of Fortresses,” starting in Finland, and, then, those that were along the east side of the Baltic Sea, then through Prussia etc. to Austria, and, then, down to their holdings in the Holy Land.

Then, when that Biggest Cavalry in the History of the World got to that Line of Fortresses, so many of those Lancers started falling off of their Mongolian Ponies, because the West Europeans had discovered what Military Historians named, “The Number One Military Invention In The History Of The World, Guns: Pistols, Rifles and Cannons.” With the Hundreds of Thousands of his Cavalry who had not been shot off of their Mongolian Ponies by those Guns, Genghis Khan went back to China and caused what is named, “The Second Largest Human Caused Slaughter in History,” (in a book that used to be available that was named, “Guinness Book of Records”), the Murder of 35 Million of the Men of China, (reducing China’s Population from about 100 Million down to only about 65 Million of them left). Doing that, Genghis Khan brought back ALL OF THE GOLD and Other Treasures, that he had his Mounted Lancers steal from the People of FORMERLY “EXTREMELY GOLD RICH CHINA,” and put that, “One Of The Largest Amounts Of Gold, In History,” in the Custody of the Exilarch’s Ashkenazi “Tatars,” that had accompanied Genghis Khan’s 700,000 Mounted Lancers as far west as that Line of Fortresses, where the Western Europeans’ Invention of Guns had stopped them. Those of the Exilarch’s Ashkenazi Kazars who had accompanied those 700,000 invading Tatars, were supposed to have been those who were to have taken over the ruling of the Women and Children etc. who were still surviving in Western Europe, after those 700,000 Mounted Lancers had killed off so many of the men there.

However, with those Ashkenazi “Tatars” of the Exilarch having remained there, to the east of that Line of Fortresses, to the east of which those 700,000 Mounted Lancers had killed off so much of the European Manhood who had lived to the east of that Line of Fortresses, the Exilarch had a new plan for their Utilization.

The Exilarch’s New Plan.

With the defeat of those 700,000 Mounted Tatar Lancers, of their having been beaten by the West Europeans’ Invention of Guns, the Roman Byzantine Empire, that had brought to the World its Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Money Religion, had ceased to exist. “Who was going to take over ruling the World by this Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Money Religion?” The Exilarch was the remaining one of that Team, of him and the former Byzantine Emperor, that was left to do that.
“How would he do that?”

In order for those Vikings etc. to have taken over World Trade, coming to them through the Mohammedans’ Mesopotamia, they had needed to start using “the Arabic Numerals” of that part of the World, to “calculate” Money Coins with. And, to write in a way that they could be understood there, they needed to start writing with the Mohammedans’ “Phoenician Alphabet.” With the Exilarch’s assistance, the Mohammedans had made the Capital of their Mohammedan Empire at the city that, in English, is spelled, “Baghdad.” However, that is not the Arabic Language pronunciation of that name. In Arabic it is pronounced, “banca-thath.” The Exilarch had it. He would establish the continuation of the former Byzantines’ Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Money Religion with his establishment of what Eastern and Central Europeans came to call their “bancas,” but which English Speakers, not speaking that way, called their, “banks.”

He would have the remainder of Genghis Khan’s Lancers take All of that Gold that they had stolen, from formerly Gold Rich China, and have them deliver that to the Exilarch’s Ashkenazi Tatars, that were waiting for that in the area that is to the east of that Line of the West Europeans’ Fortresses.

With that “Butchered Chinamen’s Gold” he would then have his most effective Ashkenazi Tatars talk the Rulers of Central and Western Europe, who had fallen for his and the Byzantine Emperor’s deception of Roman Catholic Feudalism, about their having set up for them their very own “bancas,” with their access to a huge resource of Gold, only, of course, not mentioning that it was, “The Butchered Chinamen’s Gold.” That had some of those Medieval Feudalism’s Monarchs get the idea of having access to that Gold Resource that had operated the Roman Empire, from which their Customs for their Roman Catholic Medieval Feudalism had originated. And, then, eventually, such a huge part of that Butchered Chinamen’s Gold came into the custody of the Rothschilds.

However, now, this is The Main Thing In This “Story.”

The “Brilliant” Nordic Jutes had invented, “The SECOND MOST IMPORTANT Invention In Military History,” “The Stirruped Saddle,” which was the Beginning of Knighthood, which drove the Roman Military Headquarters out of Italy over to Constantinople. That dominated the Military History of Europe for the Following, about, 1,000 Years.
Then, the “Brilliant” West European Nordics invented, “The MOST IMPORTANT Invention in Military History, Guns,” which ruined the way that the Exilarch and the Byzantine Emperor had thought that “They Were Going To Be Able To Continue Ruling Things In Their Part Of The World, by the Rules of their Ancient Babylonian Culture’s Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Money Religion Way of Life.”

“So, since that Most Important Invention in Military History, of those West Europeans, did away with such a thing as a Roman Byzantine Empire, anymore, what was the Exilarch’s reaction?”

His IMMEDIATE Reaction was to do what a Book that used to be available, that was named, “Guinness’ Book of Records,” described as, “The SECOND BIGGEST HUMAN CAUSED SLAUGHTER IN HISTORY,” the Murder of the 35 Million Men, of the total Population of China, of 100 Million People, to steal from them what was, apparently, the World’s Largest Available Supply of Gold, at that time.

“Yes, but how was he going to be able to establish the Mohammedan Money operating on the Arabic Numerals’ BANCAS, as copies of the Mohammedans’ BANCATHATH, throughout Western Europe, to run Life there, led by him, the Exilarch, instead of a Byzantine Emperor, anymore, now that those Brilliant West Europeans had invented, ‘The MOST IMPORTANT Invention in Military History, Guns?” The way that he did that was by his Organization, then, causing “The BIGGEST HUMAN CAUSED SLAUGHTER IN HISTORY,” as that used to be described that way, in that Book that went by the name of, “Guinness’ Book of Records.”

For Centuries the Exilarch’s Headquarters had been on the shore of the southeast corner of the Black Sea. (It has been presumed that his “Secret Headquarters, during the past Centuries,” has been in the vicinity of Istanbul, Turkey, the location of his former Colleague, the Byzantine Emperor’s Constantinople.) His Followers, the Khan of the Kazars, and his Kazars, operated, for Centuries, from their homeland the Kavkaz, that includes the shoreline of the northeast corner of the Black Sea.

The Exilarch and his Khan of the Kazars knew that area well.

Something that may have been quite an irritation to the two of them was that, after those Western Europeans had won what have been called, “The Crusades,” and there was no more Byzantine Empire, apparently it seemed to them that such Huge Numbers of the Ships of those West Europeans would sail up, through the Bosporus, to the North Shore of the Black Sea, and FILL UP with the Gigantic Crops of the Grain, that grew so abundantly in that agriculturally most fertile part of Europe. As those Huge Numbers of those Grain Cargo Ships, from Western Europe, kept constantly coming to the North Shore of the Black Sea, the Exilarch and his Ashkenazi Tatars got their Plan together.

To the east of the Caucasus is the Caspian Sea. To the east of that Sea, over, about 600 miles of the partially desert land there, is the beginning of the enormous Himalayas Mountain Range. The people of that Area knew that in that area, after that Desert, at the beginning of that Mountain Range there is what is the basis of one of the World’s Worst Diseases, the Bubonic Plague. It is found that, in general, so often the Rats that are found there have the symbiosis of their carrying the Fleas that have the Germs of the Bubonic Plague; and, if one of those Fleas bites a human that human will soon die from the infection from those Bubonic Plague germs.

The Exilarch and his Ashkenazi Tatars got the idea that large numbers of those Tatars would travel over to that Mountain Range with thousands of small wooden boxes that they would put those Infected Rats in. Then, traveling from there back to the Ship Harbors on the North Coast of the Black Sea, with those thousands of boxes with those infected Rats in them, they secretly deposited those Boxes in the empty holds of those Ships, tied up at a Harbor, with, perhaps, no persons there, but some waiting elsewhere, for loads of grain to be brought to fill up the Hold of a Ship.

Then, as that Ship sailed away from that Harbor, to cross back across the Mediterranean Sea to head for its home port, somewhere on the West Coast of Europe, those Rats would gnaw their way out of their Box, and crawl up through the Cargo of Grain, to the top of that Cargo. Then, when that Ship docked, at its home port, and that Ship was tied by a Rope to that Dock, one or many of those infected Rats ran down those Ropes and made their way into the local Community. As that was done, during the 1300’s, that Spreading of the Bubonic Plague, or the Black Plague, throughout the Communities of Western Europe, caused, THE BIGGEST HUMAN CAUSED SLAUGHTER IN HISTORY, as that was reported in that Book, “Guinness Book of Records,” taking the Lives of, about, 75 Million of the People of Western Europe.

So many of the Ships that had come down to the Mediterranean Sea, to take the Control over World Trade away from the Enemies of Western Europe, were from Norway, a lot of them operating from the Norwegians’ “The Norman Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.” In History Books in Norway this time, of “The Winning of The Crusades,” was called, “The Time Of Norway’s Greatness.” However, those many Norwegian Ships with many of those Plague-infected Rats in them, took the lives of so many of the People of Norway that it wasn’t able to operate as a separate Country, anymore. Instead it was just “a part” of other Countries. And, with that Biggest Human Caused Slaughter happening during the 1300’s, it was not until about the year 1900 AD before the People of Norway had their own “King of Norway,” again.

Similarly, in England, because that Bubonic Plague killed so many of the people there, in the 1300’s, it was not until the time of Queen Elizabeth I, in the late 1500’s, that the Population of England got back up to 3 Million People, again.


Now for a Story that is so much of the essence of this information, from the life of the American Hero of so much of the World, today, the Inventor of that American Invention that so much of the World operates by today, the Invention of the Mass Production of Automobiles, by Henry Ford.

When The First World War began, Henry Ford, who had become so popular in so many European Countries, because of his Invention, had a quick but very expensive Study done which showed how, with all of those European Kingdoms going to War, among themselves, fighting each other, that way, that War was going to “do away with those Kingdoms.” He put together all of that quickly gathered Information and hired the services of an Ocean Vessel that he named, “the Peace Ship,” to take him and that information to the Capitals of the various European Countries in that War, to try to share with them the wisdom of their trying to establish Peace, among the group of them.

However, as his Peace Ship was leaving New York Harbor, a group of Ashkenazi Tatars, that had gotten on board, came up to him and said, “We started this War; and it’s not going to be over until we say that it’s going to be over!”
If those persons were told to leave the Ship, and were put on a vessel to take them back to the Harbor Dock, isn’t a large part of the information. However, what they said to him, that they had started that War and that it wasn’t going to be over until they said that it was going to be over, remained with him as a question as the Peace Ship went to the different Countries of Europe that were in that War.

When he got to those different Countries, because he was an International Hero, who had invented an Invention that was so helpful to all, he was, in general, treated so very respectfully by the Officials that were assigned to talk with him. However, he realized, that however respectful those Officials might have seemed to be, in the way that they courteously listened to him, he found out that, basically, as soon as he left such a meeting, those Officials immediately went right back to doing what their National “Central Bank” was telling them to do, to push ahead with their War Plans, against whatever other Country it was that their Country had declared War against.

After coming back to the USA he made contact with the Pinkerton Detective Agency, to which he agreed to pay them Millions of Dollars for them to study out what it was that was the Cause of this Horrible World War Problem, for the People of the World.

Because of what those Ashkenazi Tatar Pharisees had told him, that they had started the War, and that it wouldn’t be over until they said that it would be over, he was prepared, somewhat, for the Enormous Amount of Information that the Pinkerton Detective Agency had done their research into and found out about.

They found out that, basically, All of the Central Banks in the World are owned and operated by the Exilarch, the Leader of the Orthodox Pharisee Religion. Ford knew that the Leader of Germany’s Reichsbank was an Ashkenazi Pharisee, who went by the name of the Castle which Martin Luther had used in order to be able to hide himself, which was named the, “Wartburg”; and, then, he found out that one of the Main Leaders of the Federal Reserve was a brother of that man, but whom, (probably because he couldn’t have Americans thinking that his name was for a “Burg” that was full of “Warts”), had changed his name to, “Warburg.” However, still, after the USA got involved in that War, Warburg had to resign from his Leadership Position in the Federal Reserve, because it couldn’t be tolerated that his brother was the Leader of the Central Bank that was at the head of the Other Side in that War.

So, because it seemed that that was information that, basically, nobody knew anything about, Henry Ford bought out a prominent Michigan Newspaper and began printing and making available to the general public what the information was that the Pinkerton Detective Agency had researched and produced for him. However, as he was doing that the Exilarch’s Organization made contact with him and told him that unless he stopped making that printed information available in that Newspaper, they were going to murder the members of his Family.

So, of course, he stopped doing that kind of printing. However, he allowed another type of printing to be done, which was the publication of so much of all of that Information, that had been researched by the Pinkerton Detective Agency, in a Book containing that Information, the Title of which was: “The International Jew, The World’s Foremost Problem.” That Book, about the history of and information about the Exilarch, to which Henry Ford and the Pinkerton Detective Agency had come up with the name for that person of his being, “the International Jew,” is widely available for People, in order for them to have an introduction to this Problem. When one reads that Book, it might be thought that the Exilarch’s Goal for his Central Banks, similar to that of the Predecessor of his Longest-time Partner, the Byzantine Emperor, the Roman Empire, was to have his Central Banks have the Countries that they are in keep their Governments in Wars, to BANKRUPT their Governments to him, and, then, to “enslave” perhaps ½ of their Populations to him, as that had been the Goal of the Emperors of the Romans’ Empire.


SO, NOW, FOR WHAT PRESIDENT MCKAY’S PROPHECY, ABOUT D&C 90: 10-11, “THAT EVERY MAN SHALL HEAR THE FULNESS OF THE GOSPEL IN HIS OWN TONGUE, AND IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE,” BEING FULFILLED BY THE LDS INVENTION PRODUCING THE WORLDWIDE INTER-LINGUAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS UTILITY, HAS TO DO WITH DANIEL 2:45, “THE STONE,” WHICH WAS, “CUT OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN WITHOUT HANDS, AND THAT IT BRAKE IN PIECES, 2:31 THIS GREAT IMAGE” OF WHICH “THE FORM THEREOF WAS TERRIBLE.”

The Biggest Part of the Former Utah Software Industry, Novell and WordPerfect, were stolen from Ray Noorda’s Control in 1994. When that happened Bill Gates said, “Then the Internet really took off.” That was so much so, that the last issue of Time Magazine for 1997 contained an Article on the Enormous Worldwide Growth of the Internet, (operating on our LDS 85%-effective Invention of HLT). That Article reported that, “During the year 1997 the people of the world bought and sold about $15 Trillion Worth of Stock, on the Internet, every day.” (The World’s Population had passed the number of 6 Billion People, by that time, but, at those “rounded out numbers,” that would have been the purchase and sale of about $2,500.00 worth of Common Stock, for every Man, Woman, and Child on the Earth, FOR EVERY DAY OF THAT YEAR.
The People of the World who have, consistently, had the Highest Standard of Living in the World are the Northwest European People who have worked together by their Ancestral Free Enterprise System. In the First Centuries of the Christian Era, before they had to adapt to the Mediterranean System for Controlling World Trade, in order to stop its Controllers from using their Profits from it to attack Northern Europe, they did not operate, among themselves by the Mediterranean, Babylonian, Persian, Greco-Roman Catholic Orthodoxy Religion Money System, (under which, as that has been addressed, half of the People in the Ancient Roman Empire System were its Slaves).

The People of Northern Europe, where no Gold had ever been found, operated by their Ancestral “Wealth” System. “And, what is that?”

In the Germanic Languages, when one “heal-s” the result of that is, “heal-th.” When a person “steal-s through the shadows,” the result of that is, “steal-th.” The English word, “vote,” originated from the Ancient Romans’ Latin Language. And, of course, the ½ of the Population of the Romans’ Empire that were their Slaves didn’t vote. The Ancestral English word for, “vote,” as that word has remained the word for, “vote,” until this time, among other Germanic Languages, is, “weal.” The Common STOCK, or “Voting” STOCK of the North European Concept of a Business Corporation, is, “WEAL-TH.” Historically, before the North Europeans got involved in the World Trade of the Mediterranean Area, in order to stop Empires in that Area from using their Profits from their Control of that World Trade, there, to attack Northern Europe, the People of Northern Europe “worked together,” “bought,” “sold,” and “paid,” using their “WEALTH,” which, in the USA and elsewhere, today, generally goes by that name, “Common Stock,” in the parts of the World where the English Language is spoken.

There has never been anywhere near the value, of Gold, in the World, to compare with the Quadrillions of Dollars of Value of the Enterprises, Facilities, Operations, Production etc., of the Current Modern Industrialized World, as that is represented, among those who are in it and who know about it, by the Common Stock, “the Wealth,” of the Business Corporations that are in it. And, so, that 1978 85%-effective LDS Invention of HLT, that produced the Internet and so much of the modern-day Electronics Industry seems that it is REPLACING so much of what has been that Image of Terrible Form, of the “Gold Coin ‘Money’ Religion” of the Empires of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, and, then, of their continuation, as the “feet part of iron and part of clay” of the Successors of the Byzantine Empire, that were enabled to keep operating, in the Gold Coin Money procedures of those previous Empires, by the “Butchered Chinamen’s Gold” of the Central Banks of the Exilarch.

“Where did the Start of that Great Image, the Babylonian Empire, come from?” It originated with Heavenly Father’s Curse of the Confusion of Tongues, upon the predecessor of Babylon, those who built the Tower of Babel.
“And how did the Successors of that Babylonian Empire operate?” Beginning with the Ancient Greek Empire, they operated by the “Correct Hunches,” “Ortho-doxies,” in Ancient Greek, that those who spoke the Language of one of those Empires, were told, in their Language, by their Military Dictator, that the “bodiless, brainless ‘theos’,” of the Ancient Greeks, (that Heavenly Father indicates, in D&C 86:3, is “Satan”), that is the “power” that makes the Sky SPIN around, above the Earth, ONE time, every day and night, in a ONE-SPIN (“Uni-verse,” in Ancient Latin), ONLY gives to the current Military Dictator of a Specific People, who speak a specific Language, about the Horrible Things that are being planned against them, by the Military Dictators of the People living in the Lands around them, whose Languages cannot be understood by the Subjects of that Military Dictator. And, that has been the reason that the Different People, speaking the Different Thousands of Spoken Languages of the World, have understood that they have to have their Continuation of their Babylonian Dictators.

In the Ancient Hebrew Language the word, “adam,” means, “red.” Apparently The First Father of the Human Family, whom Joseph Smith was told, by Our Heavenly Father, was, “the Handsomest Man who ever lived,” was a red-head, which can be thought of as, “a unique coloration characteristic of the Nordic Race.” In the Ancient Language of the Tribes of the Nordic Race, the name of our First Father was, “Man.” The word, “family,” is a Latin word. Our ancestral word for, “family,” the “kinsmen” of our “kindred,” to whom we are expected to be “kind,” is, “kind.” Our Ancient, Ancestral way of saying, “the Human Family of Father Adam,” is, “Mankind.”

As mentioned before, with the currently available CHLT, Complete Human Language Technology, from the Book of Mormon’s Explanation of the Way that Human Languages are understood so that Computer Software is being developed for their Translation that operates at the level of 100% of effectiveness, on which the LDS initiated Worldwide Inter-lingual Telecommunications Utility operates, the People of the Human Family, Mankind, ARE ALL GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER, BACK AND FORTH, THROUGH THE UTILITY, AMONG ALL OF THEIR DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, AND ALL OF THEM WILL BE ABLE TO TELL EACH OTHER HOW VERY MUCH THEY ALL LOVE EACH OTHER, rather than their needing, to only listen to the Military Dictators, who happen to speak their Language, telling them how they need to work in those Military Dictators’ Money System, in order to be able to be protected against those Horrible People, speaking all of those Other Languages around them, that they can’t understand, which those who have been their Military Dictators have been telling them want to destroy them.

“So, why did the Pharisees APOSTATIZE from the Priesthood-led Religion of Ancient Israel, over to the Orthodoxy Religion of the Greek Conqueror who was conquering their Middle East away from the control of it by the Persians’ Empire?”
They wanted to be able to fit right into the Gold Coin Money “Economy” that the Greek Empire was conquering, there in the Mesopotamia, in order for those Greeks to be able to take the Control of it away from the Persian Empire, that it had had, over what was the Gold Coin Money “World Trade,” that went through the Mesopotamia.

Then, when that Greek Empire didn’t last very long, and the Pharisees had to “switch over,” to working with its Roman Successors, the Military Dictators of which operated what, eventually, became their Empire, that operated on the Concept of Gold Coin “Money” being their “Religion,” not too long after those Romans established their Empire they drove the Pharisees out of Judea, over to the vicinity of Babylon.

Then, after the “Office” of the Exilarch had been there, in the vicinity of Babylon City for more than two centuries, the Romans’ Emperor asked that specific Exilarch who was there, in Babylon City, at that time, if he would show that Roman Emperor and his Successors how to destroy the Christianity that the Christian Church from Judea had brought up to all of the Ancient Israelite Tribes living in Nordic Europe.

Then, as explained in “D&C 86:3,” at that time began, “the great persecutor of the church, ‘the apostate,’” the Exilarch, along with his Pharisees, working with “the whore,” ─ (the Leader of the Long-established Prostitution, Primary “Gold Coin Obtaining,” Industry of Rome) ─ “even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup,” which Roman Empire, beside having taken over the Control over World Trade based on Gold Coins, after having made that a part of the Religion of Rome, Centuries earlier, was described as being that part of the great persecutor of the Church, by the Apostle, John the Revelator, in verses 4 and 5 of, Revelation 17: “And the woman … having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: :5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

It has been said, for well over a Decade, now, that the People of the USA have been doing over 90% of their Financial Transactions ELECTRONICALLY, using their Debit and Credit Cards etc., over that 1978 LDS Invention of the 85%-effective HLT Computer Software that operates the Internet, instead of their continuing their doing their Financial Transactions with the Fiat Money Paper Bills of the Exilarch’s Central Bank for the USA, the Federal Reserve.

And, it would be interesting to know, as Time Magazine made that Information available, in their last Edition for 1997, how much “The People of the World,” are continuing to do Such An Enormous Amount of their Dealings, with the Values that they have obtained, in their Purchases and Sales, every day, OVER THE INTERNET, of the Stocks that are available on the Stock Market of their Individual Country, and, then, putting all of that information together, the way that that information, in relation to each of those Individual Countries of the World, relates to Amounts of such Purchases and Sales in All of the Stock Markets in the World, put together.

In relation to this, there is a Specific Way that the Worldwide Inter-lingual Telecommunications Utility will need to be able to “Most Responsibly” provide the Services of 100%-effective (or near to it, and getting closer) CHLT inter-lingual telecommunications to the Large Businesses of the USA and of the World. And, this is something that Bruce Wydner came to understand so well when working, there in Mexico, for General Motors, in their Border Factories.
In order to be Most Responsible in providing these “worldwide” Services, it will be necessary, (and that will be most easily understood), that those Large International Organizations not pay us for our Services in the Fiat Money Bills of the Central Bank of their Country, the VALUE of which Fiat Money Bills are known to “fluctuate” so much, within a Country or among Countries. Instead, for us to be able to keep the Worldwide Inter-lingual Telecommunications Utility AT ALL TIMES performing for a Customer, in that MOST RESPONSIBLE WAY, we will need to require of each one of them that they reimburse us for our Services with the COMMON STOCK of their Corporation.

From experience, they will realize that this is a requisite, in order for these Worldwide Inter-lingual Telecommunications Utility’s Services to CONSTANTLY be always available for them, “in the very Most Responsible Way.”

However, then, doing things in this way, so that this Worldwide Inter-lingual Telecommunications Utility, that President McKay prophesied that the LDS People will be able to establish, can gain the reputation that it tries to behave IN THIS MOST RESPONSIBLE “LDS” WAY, that it can, as it does these things that President McKay prophesied that it would, it will be developing into THE FIRST WORLDWIDE, INTERNATIONAL STOCK MARKET IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
As such, as so much of All of the Population of the Whole World, begins Buying and Selling the WEALTH of the Corporations of the World, the need for the People of the Human Family of the World, of Mankind, to continue doing anything with the Fiat Money Bills of the Exilarch’s Central Bank for Operations of the Military Dictator of their Country, will be diminishing.

As that happens, and it is seen that “so many of a person’s Financial Transactions can be done ELECTRONICALLY,” THROUGH THIS, WHICH SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO FUNCTION FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD AS THE WORLD’S FIRST WORLDWIDE, INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL NEGOTIATIONS FACILITY THE NEED FOR THE CONTINUATION OF THE EXILARCH’S CENTRAL BANKS, THAT WERE STARTED FOR EUROPEANS BY THEIR OPERATING ON “THE BUTCHERED CHINAMEN’S GOLD,” WILL BEGIN DIMINISHING IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY MIGHT SOON SEEM THAT THEY ARE: “like the chaff on the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth,” Daniel 2:35

However, the Employees of the World’s Current Banks, working on their Large Computers, would seem to continue being among the most needed Workers in the World.

[larsenb]

But I should have elaborated about this paradox (perhaps better described as a dilemma). It involves at least sidling up to the view and belief that Israel can do no wrong, because of what we believe regarding the destiny of Israel and the return of the Jews. So when Israel DOES do wrong (by government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise, or even by individual Israeli citizens, etc., we may experience a slight cognitive dissonance, but still come down on the side of 'Israel can do no wrong', and dismiss everything else.

WOW! Did God personally visit you and appoint you to be the judge of Israel so that you could judge the "government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise" and judge "individual Israeli citizens"?

How do you feel about what happened when Israel first took the land of Canaan, the land that God gave to them?

Does it bother you that Jericho was taken and destroyed?

How about when Joshua used an ambush to takes the city of Ai and "set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the Lord"?

What do you think of the fact that "all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai"?

Joshua "utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai." Care to comment on that?

There's lots more concerning God's ancient covenant people and the wars they fought. They are now returning to the land that God gave them, the land that was dedicated to their return by our Church.

Me, the judge of Israel?? Hardly. Are you talking about descendents of Abraham, or ancient Judea or Israel, the modern State of Israel, the Jewish people,or what? Some of the best political/social commentators around that I normally read everyday, come from a Jewish heritage. I've even got Jewish 1st cousins, etc.

You totally misunderstand my stance, nor do you show any understanding of my previous posts. Be that as it may, I'm still really impressed with your testimony and conversion, Tony.

But your response is another pure example of someone caught up in the Israel-can-do-no wrong group I was talking about. Anybody else want to weigh in as victims of this mindset?

[Tony]

Me, the judge of Israel?? Hardly. Are you talking about descendents of Abraham, or ancient Judea or Israel, the modern State of Israel, the Jewish people,or what? Some of the best political/social commentators around that I normally read everyday, come from a Jewish heritage. I've even got Jewish 1st cousins, etc.

You totally misunderstand my stance, nor do you show any understanding of my previous posts. Be that as it may, I'm still really impressed with your testimony and conversion, Tony.

But your response is another pure example of someone caught up in the Israel-can-do-no wrong group I was talking about. Anybody else want to weigh in as victims of this mindset?

My point was: Who are we to judge "when Israel DOES do wrong (by government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise, or even by individual Israeli citizens, etc."?

Someone can just as easily judge Israel conquering the land of Canaan, which was much more horrific than anything we have witnessed in our lifetime.

[AI2.0]

I have no interest in wasting time arguing over whether or not Israel is 'good' or 'bad'. Right now it is a bit hard to tell whose 'good' and whose 'bad' on this world stage and it is not important. What is important is that because of modern day revelation LDS believe that the creation of the modern state of Israel is God's will through fulfillment of prophecy.

When the Children of Israel returned to their promised land they had to fight to reestablish their claim; it took a lot of bloodshed to do so. Nothing has changed in that part of the world, it is still a bloody fight to hold their promised land. LDS have long believed that the Jews would return to the lands of their inheritance and we also believe that one day the whole world will be aligned against them and the Lord's second coming will save them from total destruction.

[larsenb]

To be a Jew is to be a child of God. But to be a adherent to the Jewish Religion is to be an adherent to a false religion, a religion of the Apostate. . . . . . . .

Darren, as usual, a really different slant and view coming from Bruce Widner. Very intriguing and provocative, but for me, it cries out for citation, verification, substantiation, with names named, etc. But still . . . . it seems to me that his overview and grand generalizations and perhaps oversimplifications have some real truth to them, and far be it from me, to deny that he may be way beyond me in understanding what is really going on.

I have a folder where I always save what I collect from Bruce via yourself, and will do so with this offering. Keeping it in the back of my mind and maybe going over it from time to time.

No offense meant, but Bruce seems like some kind of hybrid who works on a different plane that most people. I work with a guy like that, whose range of perception and awareness seems to be quite a ways beyond the normal, and who is very impressive to me. He understands things almost instantly and naturallly that have taken me years to flesh out.

[larsenb]

Me, the judge of Israel?? Hardly. Are you talking about descendents of Abraham, or ancient Judea or Israel, the modern State of Israel, the Jewish people,or what? Some of the best political/social commentators around that I normally read everyday, come from a Jewish heritage. I've even got Jewish 1st cousins, etc.

You totally misunderstand my stance, nor do you show any understanding of my previous posts. Be that as it may, I'm still really impressed with your testimony and conversion, Tony.

But your response is another pure example of someone caught up in the Israel-can-do-no wrong group I was talking about. Anybody else want to weigh in as victims of this mindset?

My point was: Who are we to judge "when Israel DOES do wrong (by government action, via the Mossad, the IDF or otherwise, or even by individual Israeli citizens, etc."?

Someone can just as easily judge Israel conquering the land of Canaan, which was much more horrific than anything we have witnessed in our lifetime.

All I have to do is read or listen to the witnesses of such atrocities as the attack on the US Liberty. The victims of that horror very much blame Israel. Or listen to or read books by Barry Chamish regarding what happened to him after he exposed the real perps behind the assassination of Yitzakh Rabin, and who exposed the murder of Wayne Owens (basically confirmed by someone close to me in the Tel Aviv Embassy at the time), or the murder of some 85-100 Brits and others in the King David Hotel by the Jewish terrorist organization called the Irgun (disguised as Arabs, by the way . . . ever hear of false flag operations . .. are they doing similar things now??), or the slaughter of between 700 and 3500 refugees in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982 by Christian Phalangists w/the Israeli army blocking the escape routes and Ariel Sharon doing nothing to stop it.

Probably the worst thing I've seen in my life were videos of the aftermath of Israeli bombings of a Gaza marketplace and hospital in the last Israeli attack on this region (not the current one, which is bad enough). Maybe I'm sensitized to such things because of my experience in Vietnam.

Is all well in Israel?? Not at all. Does God condone such things? Did he command these things? I doubt it. Would Captain Moroni approve of these things. I really doubt it. Does that mean there are not many, many good people and including saintly religious people in Israel. Not at all. There are. It's just that the situation is a mixed bag. . . not black and white; and yes, I'm sure God's purposes for Israel will proceed. But I don't think he condones or approves of the evil that goes on or originates there.

Of course you're welcome believe what you want. But from my point of view, you've willfully placed blinders on your mind and eyes. As long as that's comfortable for you I guess you can justify it.

[larsenb]

I have no interest in wasting time arguing over whether or not Israel is 'good' or 'bad'. Right now it is a bit hard to tell whose 'good' and whose 'bad' on this world stage and it is not important. What is important is that because of modern day revelation LDS believe that the creation of the modern state of Israel is God's will through fulfillment of prophecy.

When the Children of Israel returned to their promised land they had to fight to reestablish their claim; it took a lot of bloodshed to do so. Nothing has changed in that part of the world, it is still a bloody fight to hold their promised land. LDS have long believed that the Jews would return to the lands of their inheritance and we also believe that one day the whole world will be aligned against them and the Lord's second coming will save them from total destruction.

As I said, in recent years I have wondered why "the whole world will be aligned against them". There may be significant and good reasons for this that might go beyond the simple model: Israel good, the whole rest of the world bad.

It's tough dealing with situations that in fact may be paradoxical and a real mix. Especially with humans. Not so much with God.

[Epistemology]

I'm sure the pilgrims were not all saintly in deed yet were traveling under inspiration.

I'm sure the founding fathers and subsequent leaders if the early US committed adultery, lied, killed, yet the founding if the US was inspired.

The US is a promised place but our government isn't and doesn't choose the right often, yet Zion will be here and the church started here and this land will still be protected and a land of promise.

The state of Israel is no different. No matter what they have done or what they will do, they are being protected and will be (2 witnesses) in the future.

Will all the world be against them because they are evil? Or will all the world be against them and they are holy?

Whatever the answer, it is Christ Himself that comes to save them.

[KMCopeland]

There's a difference between supporting Israel, and supporting the government of the country with that name. There's some overlap -- but there's still a difference.

[OCDMOM]

I'm sensing that this site has some trolls. Paid or otherwise.

[larsenb]

I'm sensing that this site has some trolls. Paid or otherwise.

And who may they be OCDMOM? I don't get your sense of who you may think is a troll; paid or otherwise.

[Alighieri]

A majority of the race/culture that calls themselves Jews (80% - 90%), admit by the title they use, that they are not the blood descendents and patriarchal linage of Abraham and his great-...-grandfather Shem. By using that name they admit that they are not born through the linage of the patriarch Abraham. Most of the Jews today are Ashkenazi Jews. Lets look at the linage of an Ashnenazi Jews, that they claim to be a part of.

A simple search on Google as to the etymology of Ashkenazi proves you totally wrong.

Have a nice day.

[larsenb]

A majority of the race/culture that calls themselves Jews (80% - 90%), admit by the title they use, that they are not the blood descendents and patriarchal linage of Abraham and his great-...-grandfather Shem. By using that name they admit that they are not born through the linage of the patriarch Abraham. Most of the Jews today are Ashkenazi Jews. Lets look at the linage of an Ashnenazi Jews, that they claim to be a part of.

A simple search on Google as to the entomology of Ashkenazi proves you totally wrong.

Have a nice day.

Also, the majority of fairly recent genetic studies place the Ashkenazi as being very much in line with a Jewish heritage.

[onetruesteve]

Wow, too much to read here! Having come over from Mormon Chronicle, I was happy to see that someone clearly stated the obvious. Jews are of Judah who is of the S(h)emetic line. On the other site, someone wrote that they had done their own research and found out that the Ashkenazi ARE Jewish because they they descended from Japeth. WHAT?! Noah's sons were Ham, Shem and Japeth. So, are they Shemitic, or Japethic? Also, no one discounts Orson Hyde's dedication or the gathering in Israel which has been taking place. Little has been said of the Sephardic Jews which ARE of Shem, and are also gathering, but who are not, by and large, rich or powerful, but are generally oppressed and controlled. Clearly not the fulfilled gathering.

We would probably do better to admit that the prophecy is not fulfilled, but is in process of fulfillment. In 2 Nephi 9:1-2, it clearly states that: "And now, my beloved brethren, I have read these things that ye might know concerning the covenants of the Lord that he has covenanted with all the house of Israel-- That he has spoken unto the Jews by the mouth of his holy prophets, even from the beginning... UNTIL THE TIME COMES THAT THEY SHALL BE RESTORED TO THE TRUE CHURCH and fold of God; WHEN THEY SHALL BE GATHERED HOME TO THE LANDS OF THIER INHERITANCE and shall be established in ALL their lands of inheritance." So, nothing is really fulfilled until they join the church. Plus, they have to have ALL the lands of their inheritance restored. They have not "arrived."

Also, God has said: "Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord." - 2 Chronicles 19: 2. We cannot "help" them, or be their sugar daddy until they are righteous. They won't even let us preach!

Moses told them, after chastising them for wickedness, that "many evils and troubles shall befall them" (Deut. 31: 17), and that after his death, "evil will befall you IN THE LATTER DAYS." (Deut. 31: 29) Who are we to save them, if God is against it?

Jesus listed their many sins from the beginning, including the sins they were committing with full awareness in His lifetime. Then he says, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (MT 23: 13-39, esp. vs. 38-39)

To me it is clear that our bearing them upon our shoulders should not come until they have joined the church.