5 month war & 13 month war????

[abelchirino]

So are you saying that the opening act of the seventh seal is the second coming of Christ? I just want to clarify that.

[friendsofthe]

Abelchirino wrote:
So are you saying that the opening act of the seventh seal is the second coming of Christ? I just want to clarify that.

Actually the point I’m trying to make to one and all it that it’s the Lord who says so. Just take him at his word! If we do that we don’t have to worry about calendars or complex reasoning, just believe. “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding”

[butterfly]

I am of those that don't believe I can say for sure that we're still on the sixth seal. These are my reasons:

Abelchirino I totally understand the points you are making, I've wondered about many of those same things, too. With more than one appearance from the Savior, it can get confusing. Because if you look at the Bible, in the chapter heading for Revelation 9 it says : John also sees the wars and plagues poured out during the 7th seal and before the Lord comes.

But then as Friendsofthe mentions, D&C 29 does sound clear that Christ's appearance is the start of the millennium.

Anyway, very good points all around.

[abelchirino]

I guess I'll study section 29 more closely, maybe I missed something.

[friendsofthe]

John also sees the wars and plagues poured out during the 7th seal and before the Lord comes. That is before he comes to the Jews at the battle of Armageddon. This when he appears to the whole world.

AOA happens at the very opening of the millennium when he comes to just the saints as the Bridegroom. This is all in preparation for his coming to the world.

[friendsofthe]

It goes like this, Christ comes as the Bridegroom (at AOA) at the opening of the seventh seal. This is in America of course. The ten tribes return, the earthly New Jerusalem is built etc.

At the same time the events of Rev. 8 through 11 are unfolding in the Old World.

So we have two parallel timelines with the good guys in America and the bad guys in the Old World.

When all the needed preparations have been make in America and the battle of Armageddon is raging in the Old Word, Christ (along with the righteous saints) will put and end to the battle and appear to the Jews.

[dlbww]

.

[friendsofthe]

Very interesting but not surprising.

[SouEu]

My thinking is that the 5 month, 13 month, and 3 1/2 year war are still all in the future. I think they will happen in rapid succession, one after another.

I'm thinking the first 5 month war might be one where biological/chemical agents are released and other unconventional warfare, like an EMP set off. Nothing green will be hurt, but men will suffer and want to die.

I don't think it was the Iraq war, I have a feeling that we have a lot in front of us that we will face. I think it will come in a rapid succession.

The 2nd war is a combination a an internal civil war in the U.S. that turns into an invasion by Russia and China.

The 3rd war, of course is Armageddon.

[WarMonger]

LOL we are back to the seals again. The six seal has not opened and no war has started. First economic collapse - then US civil war then everyone getting nuked. The wars start when the nukes start falling - Joel is clear it is the sign of the first of the wars having commenced.

Have to agree with SouEu.

[Carlos]

The six seal has not opened and no war has started.

How can you have claim to the name WarMonger. Are you blind?! B-) Wars are raging in the middle east since 2001?!! Maybe the 6th seal has opened (contrary to your beliefs). Did you forget that a coalition of dozens of nations participated in the Iraq war? ... around the river Euphrates. Did you forget that aircraft pounded Afghanistan for months in an effort to kill the evil men who claimed responsibility for the smoke and debris left in the US? Do you not see that that part of the world is still in turmoil as people are killing each other just for the sake of killing?? Of course, you know that the rest of the world who is not involved with that mess is just continuing their lives just as nothing has happened.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts aircraft upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should [hurt] only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. (evil men)
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. (not a 13 month war... they prepared for 13 months...why?? to begin killing men)

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. (Those in la la land aren't affected by the wars)

Nope...nothing to see here. Move along. When the sun turns black then we'll know to wake up.

[KMCopeland]

What event will bring the US into war with Iran? THe US is already using ISIS as an excuse to neutralize Syria. What will be the excuse for the US to go hot against Iran?

We've already got all the excuses in the world. The neocons have never gone away, and they have always had Iran, and Syria, in their crosshairs. I guess the thing to watch is how many of them get the power they had in the Bush administration.

I see that Jeb has embraced many of the Likudnik/Neocons that his brother allowed to run his foreign policy. They are dying for a war with Iran. So maybe if Jeb gets elected, that will get you that war against Iran you feel is part of the final countdown. Which it may very well be.

But tell me this: do you think we should encourage that war, or do all we can to prevent it?

[shadow]

LOL we are back to the seals again. The six seal has not opened and no war has started.

You mean the 7th seal?
I think the 6th opened around a thousand years ago +/-

[WarMonger]

The six seal has not opened and no war has started.

How can you have claim to the name WarMonger. Are you blind?! B-) Wars are raging in the middle east since 2001?!! Maybe the 6th seal has opened (contrary to your beliefs). Did you

The Iraq war was not even a war just a bare fisted brawl in the back of a local pub. Look at he bombing of Dresden during he 2WW 45,000 people killed one attack - what happen the allies bombed the city and it created a fireball that burnt the city to the ground. The prophet at the time (GAS) stated the 2WW was a training exercise, the Iraq thing just weapons testing in the desert.

The scripture clearly states 1/3 of men will be killed and those with the seal of God in their foreheads will be spared. Those with the seal in the forehead are the the 144,000 which get called and sealed during the 6th seal, after Zion is established in the 6th seal.

I have had these arguments ad nauseum - give me a real war at least 100,000,000 dead. ISIS beheads daily more people than were killed in the punch up you were referring to.

[WarMonger]

Comparison D&C:88 & Rev 6, Sect 45
Sequence of events

• Hastening: current event
• Missionaries withdrawn: after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation, see 3 Nephi 16:10 – cant start calamities without missionaries first being withdrawn
• Earthquake
• Moon turning to blood
• Meteorite bombardment, stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
• Zion establish and 144,000 called

D&C:88: 73 Behold, I will hasten my work in its time.
85 That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
87 For not many days hence and the earth shall trembleand reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shallhide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.

D&C 45:42 And before the day of the Lord shall come, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon be turned into blood, and the stars fall from heaven.
43 And the remnant shall be gathered unto this place;

Now opening of 6th seal the exact same events go figure????
Rev 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Now Zion established and 144,000 called from all tribes and sealed on the forehead for protection against the calamites. i.e. lost tribes retuned, one will have the scripteured of the Bible, BoM and Lost tribes as prophesied.
Rev 7: 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

2 Nephi 29:13 6th seal event.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have thewords of the Nephites and the Jews.

The 7th seal starts with siclence in heaven (silence from meteorites and destruction) why so the 144,000 can go and preach the gospel before the end comes.

Summary.
Key events, missionaries withdrawn, earthquake followed by massive meteorite bombardment. Zion established, Lost tribes return, 144,000 sealed and set apart for missionary work – all 6th seal events.

[jsbaugh]

Comparison D&C:88 & Rev 6, Sect 45
Sequence of events

• Hastening: current event
• Missionaries withdrawn: after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation, see 3 Nephi 16:10 – cant start calamities without missionaries first being withdrawn
• Earthquake
• Moon turning to blood
• Meteorite bombardment, stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
• Zion establish and 144,000 called

D&C:88: 73 Behold, I will hasten my work in its time.
85 That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
87 For not many days hence and the earth shall trembleand reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shallhide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.

D&C 45:42 And before the day of the Lord shall come, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon be turned into blood, and the stars fall from heaven.
43 And the remnant shall be gathered unto this place;

Now opening of 6th seal the exact same events go figure????
Rev 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Now Zion established and 144,000 called from all tribes and sealed on the forehead for protection against the calamites. i.e. lost tribes retuned, one will have the scripteured of the Bible, BoM and Lost tribes as prophesied.
Rev 7: 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

2 Nephi 29:13 6th seal event.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have thewords of the Nephites and the Jews.

The 7th seal starts with siclence in heaven (silence from meteorites and destruction) why so the 144,000 can go and preach the gospel before the end comes.

Summary.
Key events, missionaries withdrawn, earthquake followed by massive meteorite bombardment. Zion established, Lost tribes return, 144,000 sealed and set apart for missionary work – all 6th seal events.

So you are saying we have over 1000 years until the 2nd coming? Each seal is a thousand years and the silence in heaven is around 21 years. Did you miss the quote from the prophet mentioning we are the last generation before the coming of Christ.

[LukeAir2008]

"In the scriptures, three wars are described during the last days (the 3 great Woes):
a strange small 5 month war, a devastating 13 month world war, (which is particularly severe in America and the other Gentile nations) and the final 3 ½ year Armageddon war in Israel that precede the actual 2nd Coming of the Savior."

I came across this when I was looking at the AVOW website. Where are they getting the idea about these 3 wars? I am aware of the 3 1/2 yr war in Israel that precedes the Second Coming, but does anyone know where the idea of a 5 month war and a 13 month war come from? Is this from the scriptures?

Revelation 9:10 - 5 month war

Revelation 9:15 - 13 month war

[WarMonger]

So you are saying we have over 1000 years until the 2nd coming? Each seal is a thousand years and the silence in heaven is around 21 years. Did you miss the quote from the prophet mentioning we are the last generation before the coming of Christ.

The way I understand the seals is that they are key calamities that are to occur in the 1000y time period. e.g. Black plague is not mentioned or the 1WW and 2WW - it is all about events at the closing of the 6,000 year period. I am expecting nuclear holocaust to occur in the 6th seal.

The 7th seal is just final rap up of events like the BoM explains 'they began to be swept away' Look at the opening events of the 7th seal.
Earthquake, Massive meteorite bombardment 1/3 of everything in the ocean killed, 1/3 of surface water poisoned, green trees destroyed etc (Rev 8).

My expected time line. 6th Seal - just from the top of my head.

• Economy fails in Sept/Oct 2015
• 3-6 weeks later massive earthquake in Utah 50% of residence of SLC destroyed
• Very bad winter in N.hemisphere 2015/16 - people trapped in houses, when they get out starvation
• 2016 - civil war, plagues US try to hold an election but process fails in the chaos
• ??? months years Russia, Iran, China, N.Korea, South American countries invade US
• Massive earthquake New Madrid fault great lakes flood all the way down to Mississippi, Jackson County Missouri wiped clean.
• Zion established, lost tribes return, 144,000 called, City of Enoch returns
• Jews Rebuild temple in Jerusalem and start sacrifices again.

Events of 7th seal final wars and Armageddon, 2 prophets in Jerusalem - Jesus saves the Jews and they start to believe. PS when the Messiah returns to save the Jews he kills 200 million people and it takes 7 months to bury the dead. And the second coming is not yet but close.

From when the economy tanks anything between 7-30years to second coming. When the second coming is, has almost no importance one will either be dead or in Zion's protection by then.

[abelchirino]

Daniel 8 talks about the Goat and the Ram and the battle of Greece vs. Persia and the Medes. This passage found fullfillment when Alexander the Great went against Persia. Afterwards Greece was divided and Alexander the Great died.

Will scripture/history repeat itself? Is the US another Greece? Will the US be divided into tribes after going to war against Iran?

What event will bring the US into war with Iran? THe US is already using ISIS as an excuse to neutralize Syria. What will be the excuse for the US to go hot against Iran?

Is it possible that Persia represent a people other than Iran? If Greece represents the US (and I don't say it doesn't), I don't think that Persia can represent Iran. As knowledgeable as may be in history, I'm very ignorant when it comes to the ancient conflict between Persia and Greece. Isn't the story of Greece against Persia, more or less, an underdog story? In that case, Persia could not represent Iran because the US is not the underdog against Iran. Somebody please shine some light or insight on this.

[Carlos]

I have had these arguments ad nauseum - give me a real war at least 100,000,000 dead. ISIS beheads daily more people than were killed in the punch up you were referring to.

Golly, I was hoping you'd be asking for at least 2 billion dead to approach the 1/3 figure. After all, 200,000,000 soldiers should be able to put more than just 1/2 notch on each of their rifles. Come on Warmonger, let's get realistic here.

[WarMonger]

Golly, I was hoping you'd be asking for at least 2 billion dead to approach the 1/3 figure. After all, 200,000,000 soldiers should be able to put more than just 1/2 notch on each of their rifles. Come on Warmonger, let's get realistic here.

The meteorites and comments that crash into the earth and initially kill 1/3 of all living things in the sea then all living things in the sea are killed, and the hailstones weighing a talent - I am sure there is plenty of death coming from that.

Yeah I know the frustration it is much more exhilarating to see the face of the enemy as they die. Unfortunately he heavens are gong to do the smiting on the world so that they know it is G_d's punishment and not the doings of man.

[davedan]

But tell me this: do you think we should encourage that war, or do all we can to prevent it?

Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children; (Doctrine and Covenants, Doctrine and Covenants, D&C 98)

[davedan]

Seal 1: 4000bc - 3000bc, White Horse, Divide up land
Seal 2: 3000bc - 2000bc, Red Horse, War over boarders
Seal 3: 2000bc - 1000bc, Black Horse, Money = City Living
Seal 4: 1000bc - 1bc, Pale Horse, City Living = Disease
Seal 5: 1bc -1000ad, Christian Martyrs
Seal 6: 1000ad - 2000ad, Apostasy and Restoration
Seal 7: 2000ad - 3000ad, 1/2hr silence, 7 Trumpets of Tribulation, 3 Woes, 7 Vials of Wrath, Second Coming.

[davedan]

Isn't the story of Greece against Persia, more or less, an underdog story? In that case, Persia could not represent Iran because the US is not the underdog against Iran. Somebody please shine some light or insight on this.

Greece under Alexander the Great was no underdog. By the time Greece got to Persia (Iran), they were already a great empire and already had conquered much of the Middle East amd Mediterranean. After defeating the Persians, Alexander tbe Great died mysteriously and Greece was divided in 4 kingdoms.

Will history repeat itself?

[KMCopeland]

But tell me this: do you think we should encourage that war, or do all we can to prevent it?

Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children; (Doctrine and Covenants, Doctrine and Covenants, D&C 98)

Thank you.