The Carcase And The Eagles (Matt 24)

[Kingdom of ZION]

Rare to find someone who agrees with what I understand a particular scriptures really means... of course with the author being Christian I probably have a little broader perspective.

The question is, does anyone have another understanding of this scripture that differs?


The Carcase
And The Eagles

What was Jesus talking about in that prophecy?

by Ken Raggio

"For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together," Matthew 24:28.

"And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together," Luke 17:37.

Vultures on Carcass

In two of the Gospels (Matthew and Luke), Jesus said that the CARCASE (or the DEAD BODY) attracts EAGLES.

If you want to really understand what He is talking about, you must take a look at the entire discourse.

"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. ...Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. ...For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together," Matthew 24:23-28.

Jesus was warning His followers NOT to follow false Christs, or false prophets, even if they show great signs and wonders.

He was comparing people who seek after false prophets to buzzards who seek after dead carcases.

The New International Version of the Bible (and others) translate the same word VULTURES.

Thayer's definition of the Greek "aetos" includes this note:

"Since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this probably refers to a vulture which resembled an eagle."

A vulture (or a buzzard) is a fowl that preys on the carcases of other dead animals.

To what was Jesus alluding when he warned that the vultures would gather wherever the carcase is?

In the verses immediately before these comments, Jesus warned of FALSE CHRISTS who would come on the scene in the last days.

He warned His followers NOT to go after them. Only vultures would go after them because they were already dead.

In Luke 17:33-37, Jesus warned that a night would come when two would be in a bed. One would be taken, and the other left behind.

Two will be grinding. One taken. One left behind.

Two in the field. One taken. One left behind.

As He spoke, the disciples interrupted with this question: "Where, LORD?"

In the Greek text of the New Testament, the word is "pou" which means "at what location."

Their question asked, "At what location will this prophecy be fulfilled? Where will this happen?"

Jesus answered with the same phrase that was quoted in Matthew.

It will happen where the carcase is. Where the dead body is. Where the religious emptiness is. Where the false prophets and false Christs are.

So, to re-state the above lesson, here is the explanation.


Where will one be left behind while grinding? Where there is a carcase (false, empty prophets).

Where will one be left in the field? Where there is a dead body (a false Christ).

So...

If you don't want to be left behind with a dead carcase and a bunch of vultures, you should quickly find a man of God who has the life of God in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

There will be no vultures hovering around the TRUE SPIRIT-FILLED CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

This allegory is similar to another allegory pertaining to "whited sepulchres" that Jesus referred to in 23:27.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

False religionists are then likened both to whited sepulchres, carcases, and dead men's bones.

Regardless of how real they look, there is NO TRUE LIFE IN THEM!

Jesus' remarks were scathing judgments on those false prophets, false Christs AND all those who would go after them.

The CARCASE is the empty shell of a false prophet, or a false Christ.

The VULTURES are the pathetic people who chase after the false prophets, false Christs and false religionists.

One of the definitions of CARCASS is "remains from which the substance or character is gone."

This is a similar indictment to Peter's references to evil men who were "wells without water" (2 Peter 2:17), and Jude's reference to "clouds …without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever." (Jude 1:12-13)

All these are warnings to you and me against following phony spiritual leaders who do not have the real goods of Biblical truth.

Can anyone argue that we are completely surrounded nowadays by shallow, empty, and misguided ministers and ministries of every conceivable kind who are only carcases by comparison to the great men of God in ages past, who were full of the life of God?

John said,

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds," (II John 1:10,11).

Dear friends, there is only one way to legitimize a man's ministry. Does it manifest the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth? Anything less is suspect. The Word of God is the only standard by which any minister or ministry may be accurately judged.

Granted, we all make mistakes, but at the core of our lives there should be a solid foundation of doctrinal soundness. Any time you or I discover fundamental flaws in a man or church's doctrine, we should earnestly seek the Lord for leadership to a ministry that will not mislead us and threaten our eternal salvation, where we can live for God in a doctrinally legitimate and spiritually stable environment.

Let us not be among the vultures who feed on empty carcases.

We have no need of watered-down, ecumenical religion. We have a True and Living Christ and a True and Living Gospel to believe. And only that Truth of Jesus Christ can ever make us free.

[marc]

I've always considered the word eagles to mean vultures.

[davedan]

I see this verse as a positive that is in contrast to the "lo here" and "lo there" verse that precedes it.

This verse could be warning the Saints to stick with the main body of the Church and not get lured away from the carcass.

This may become especially important in the tribulation when the Saints need to gather for preservation. Stay with the carcass because that is where we will find the Eagles (the Lord's anointed).

[Thomas]

I see this parable a little different than you do. Vultures naturally gather when a carcass is to be found. No one calls them out. They just instinctively are attracted to it. In such a manner will the eagles gather to Christ. If one says, lo here or lo there, that is not the manner of the gathering. Those who gather will do so seemingly by instinct. Those around them will have no idea of what is going on.

I think we have other scriptures that bear this out. The gathering will be supernatural and not a callout by man. The holy spirit will make the call to gather. Angels will assist.

[Thomas]

BTW, eagles are hunters but will not turn down a free meal. They gather to a carcass just like vultures do.

[clarkkent14]

maybe JSM is worth considering

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

Sounds like Angels gathering the elect to me.

[Kingdom of ZION]

I see this verse as a positive that is in contrast to the "lo here" and "lo there" verse that precedes it.

This verse could be warning the Saints to stick with the main body of the Church and not get lured away from the carcass.

This may become especially important in the tribulation when the Saints need to gather for preservation. Stay with the carcass because that is where we will find the Eagles (the Lord's anointed).

The word carcase is not used once in latter times scriptures, and only a few times in the OT and just twice in the NT. (Carcass is used four time in latter scriptures.) What meaning other then a possible allegorical type is there? A dead body would be an off the wall reference for the Messiah to refer to His Church in such a way, and thereby calling His followers vultures, carrion birds that eat dead things. From a Jewish perspective, eating an already dead thing is unclean and defiles the person.

[Kingdom of ZION]

maybe JSM is worth considering

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

Sounds like Angels gathering the elect to me.

When I have read this, I have noted that it did not say, that His Elect will be gathered to the carcass. It does say it is a parable and that in like manner as Eagle or Vultures that are drawn to a dead carcass, so shall His Elect be gathered (By hunger? By smell? By instinct? Or by second nature?). From the four directions, insinuating that this gathering is to one spot. Which spot?

As a parable, the carcase (carcass) is still a dead thing that has lost its value for anything but to gather carrion for a meal... to feed upon for a time. If the Elect were to gather to the carcass, what was the Messiah referring too? To a place or a church? Which place or which church?

Actually the 144,000 are referred to as Angels in other places, by allegory...

I know you see the same things Thomas, by your post above. So what do you say the Messiah is referring too?

[Thomas]

I not trying to discredit your interpretation KOZ. It may have some merit.

Here is the way I see it( for now). The eagles are an elite bird.They rule the skies. They represent the lord's elect. The eagles feed on carrion so eagles gather where there is food. So shall the Lord's elect gather where there is spiritual food. ( Where the word of the Lord can be heard).

The fact that eagles feed on carrion may or may not be relevant.

[davedan]

"so likewise shall mine elect be gathered"

The Church of Christ during the Tribulation may be likened to a carcass because it may not be in complete operation at that time (following the Burning of Babylon).

That is why the Saints must gather together in one place and in one body. We need to stick with the carcass, with the main body of the Saints, and with the priesthood keys.

[deep water]

Just throwing out some thoughts late at night. Tomorrow i might erase my post.
Carcase=Christ = those who have overcome the flesh with the spirit. Christ overcame the flesh and therefor the flesh was dead to him. His flesh had no power, his spirit had all control and power over his flesh. So it is with those who have overcome the flesh. Christ and those who have overcome have both power to do miracles and wonders. But the miracles and wonders are not from the same source as the pharaohs were. The Devil will do signs and miracles through the flesh. Many will pay homage to those who do these miracles. All those who warship Doctors and Surgeons are already warshipping those who the prophets have warned us of.
Desert=Church Isn't Utah called the beehive state because of the Church?
Secret places= Temple. Scriptures tell us that God dose nothing in secret.
Half of the prophets in the scriptures testified that Christ showed them our day. All who were shown, warned to beware of false prophets, and false teachers. JS was told to join no Church, then he brought forth a church. But what he taught above the store to a select group, was the same thing God wanted at the time of Moses. When Moses groomed the people for three days, Gods purpose was not to form a Church, but to have a people who each had their own personal relationship with Him. A nation of prophets. I believe that that is the mission of the BOM. The BOMs purpose is to act in the same capacity as Moses.

[friendsofthe]

My take on this. It’s all about the gathering of the saints just before the Lord appears at Adom-Ondi-Ahman. The saints will return to Jackson County in time for the great meeting to be held there when Christ comes. However, it won’t be possible for all of the saints to make the trek, especially those who are scattered throughout the world. Those who cannot get there except with the Lord’s help are called “the remainder”, they are gathered from the four corners of the earth by angles. Let us look at the passages of scripture that support and explain this. First we go to JS Matthew verse 27:

27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

Where “the carcass is” is where the main body of the saints are, that would be AOA where the Lord will make his appearance to his saints. They are to be gathered from all over the world, “from the four quarters of the earth”. Now we go to verse 37:

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Note that the Lord “shall send his angels before him” or before he comes and they “shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Those are the scattered ones who can’t make the trek. Now we go to verses 44-45

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the last days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

Again, these are the elect who are to be gathered by angels. Now we go to JST Luke 17 where we get the clearest view of what this is all about, we read:

36 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord, shall they be taken?
37 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is gathered; or, in other words, whithersoever the saints are gathered, thither will the eagles be gathered together; or, thither will the remainder be gathered together.
38 This he spake, signifying the gathering of his saints; and of angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them; the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field, whithersoever he listeth.

Where does the Lord tell them “the remainder” shall be taken?
Answer: “whithersoever the saints are gathered”.

How will they get there? Answer, by “angels descending and gathering the remainder unto them; the one from the bed, the other from the grinding, and the other from the field”

These scriptures are about the final gathering of the saints before Christ comes to them as the Bridegroom.

[davedan]

Gods purpose was not to form a Church, but to have a people who each had their own personal relationship with Him. A nation of prophets. I believe that that is the mission of the BOM.

Sorry, Christ formed His church in the Book of Mormon both in the days of Alma and when Christ appeared personally. Men were ordained to the priesthood, those that accepted Christ were baptized, and believers names were taken to be continually nourished by the word of God. The Saints met together often to partake of the Lord's Supper. Sorry: I am just not sure how you can persist in your view that Christ never intended on formining a church when the Disciples even discussed what the name of the church should be in the BOM.

Search the scriptures for the term "my church"
Read Moroni 6 "meet together oft"

[davedan]

carcass doesn't necessarily infer carrion (decaying and rotting flesh). After an eagle kills a rabbit (for instance), then it will attract other eagles who will be feeding on the carcass (fresh kill) together.

[Kmart201]

As I have been reading the Book of Mormon something that intrigued me was when Nephi talked about why they keep the Law of Moses even though it is dead. Nephi was well aware of the fact that the Law of Moses was dead but he kept it anyway because it was a commandment. The same may go for us. Maybe the church is dead, which I dont think it is, but we are commanded to keep it's statutes and laws until the coming of Christ where he will take over the reigns and bring life to the carcass. Christ may be telling us to stick with the church, His organization, even though it may seem dead as was the law of moses to Nephi.

[deep water]

Davedan; You pulled something out of context to make your point. The truth will shine through for those that see to see.

[Kingdom of ZION]

Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 1834-1907
Autobiography (1834-1865)
Typescript, BYU-S

The next day the Prophet [Joseph Smith]came to our home and stopped in
our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe. I went and
got my map for him. "Now", he said, "I will show you the
travels of this people". He then showed our travels through
Iowa, and said, "Here you will make a place for the winter; and
here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the
Great Salt Lake! You will build cities to the North and to the
South, and to the East and to the West; and you will become a
great and wealthy people in that land. But, the United States
will not receive you with the laws which God desires you to
live, and you will have to go to where the Nephites lost their power. They worked in the United Order for 166 years, and the
Saints have got to become proficient in the laws of God before
they can meet the Lord Jesus Christ, or even the city of Enoch".
He said we will not travel the shape of the horse shoe for there
we will await the action of the government. Placing his finger
on the map, I should think about where Snowflake, Arizona is
situated, or it could have been Mexico [Southwest of SLC hundreds and hundreds of miles...], he said, "The government
will not receive you with the laws that God designed you to
live, and those who are desirous to live the laws of God will
have to go South. You will live to see men arise in power in
the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the
friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be
hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which
they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true
followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of
their poverty [a prophesied church apostasy]. There will be two great political parties in
this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other
the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of
these two parties will spring another party which will be the
Independent American Party. The United States will spend her
strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations
will say, "Let's divide up the lands of the United States", then
the people of the U. S. will unite and swear by the blood of
their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then
the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half
of the U. S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to
struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and
discouraged, and almost ready to give up--when the boys from the
mountains [probably from this place where the Nephites lost their power...] will rush forth in time to save the American Army from
defeat and ruin. And they will say, 'Brethren, we are glad you
have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God'.
Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when
it's liberty hangs by a hair, as it were".

Sound like a time that must come first before the tribulation and real gathering.

The Eagles, if that is what the Messiah had said, JS did reused that word in JSMatt... and if this is a sign for America in prophesy, and if this place is the place where the Messiah prophesied they would gather... could it be this very same place JS said the righteous would need to gather too. Those who wish to live His laws and covenants are to gather there!

Are we living in the end times? The very last few years? That area JS was pointing to is the largest concentration of Native American peoples in the U.S. It is they who will mostly go and build the New Jerusalem. The BoM speaks of some gentiles repenting and being numbered among them. But when? After they have left this area, this place where those who would keep His laws must go? What is it worth, gathering to where one or two or even three tribes were, after these tribes of Israel has left? To be numbered among the empty houses left behind? Maybe we should at least begin to search for this place and make friends with those whom will build Zion!

Food for thought...

[Kingdom of ZION]

Were is it that the 'NEPHITES LOSE THERE POWER'?

Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.3, p.233
It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Ramah. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, "by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all." Mormon adds: "And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites."

We know that the face of this land was greatly changed at the crucifixion, but to what extent a 'land of many waters, rivers, and fountains', were the same or different is not known. Nor for that matter, how this hill (lone mountain) faired.

This is one of the points needed to be revealed before such can be located. A second point is what people are left from those people, and who exactly are they. Among the Nephites and Lamenites were also Judah and Levites. As well as this was not the only peoples who migrated to this continent. Much intermix of cultures, traditions, and people have happen over the few millenniums since. Much needs to be revealed! If it were to come forth, most people today would have as much faith in anyone revealing it, as the peoples in JS day did in his attempt to reveal such. Even now, hundreds of years later, only LDS Doctrinal Scholars believe, as it has not found its way in as to any kind of historical fact.

The peoples of this area are Hopi, Navaho, Zuni, Apache, and Utes. Who these people are could be quite a debate. Rod Meldrum see the Fox, Sioux and other plains Indians as the descendents of the Hopewell Mound Builders, as those peoples. I am not saying he is not right, as to those also being descendents of BoM peoples. But there is no great Hill or Mountain found in the plains lands that to me could qualifies as the Hill of Cumorah or Ramah, where over 200,000 Nephites were destroyed upon that hill and where the Jaredites were also destroyed.

However, if these are the end times, then it must be known by a few where this hill lies, and the remnants of those ancient peoples. The alternative is, no time left to accomplish G_d's purposes, G_d forbid!

Does this play any part in 'Ghost Dance', and the Messiah based religion that was emerging among some of the native peoples, that the U.S. army crushed over a century ago? I am speaking of 'Walker Lake' and other Reservations where the Messiah came and appeared at their council fires and spoke with them.

[RaVaN]

I want to clarify something here, eagles do eat carrion and often. I haven't ever seen an eagle catch a fish or rabbit(even though I know they do), but I see them every week eating road kill.

[Kingdom of ZION]

I want to clarify something here, eagles do eat carrion and often. I haven't ever seen an eagle catch a fish or rabbit(even though I know they do), but I see them every week eating road kill.

The Bear represents Russia. And if we were to think back, more often then not, they are dumpster diving for dinner. Does that make the Russian hobos or trash lovers. In allegory, it most likely does not because of the use of such a creature in allegory with references like 'teeth to devour' or 'claws to tear to pieces', we have a clear image as to the nature were to apply such imagery. We were giver Eagles... and not 'soaring above the earth', or 'flight unto our own place'. We were told to gather as the Eagles do to a Carcass, a dead body of something. The allegory imagery is quite plain here. 'To feast upon the body of dead things!' Is this a Church, Nation, People, or Promised Land that is dead and we are to gather there where the Eagles, the Elect are feasting upon this dead thing... that IS the real questions! What has died? Why are we to gather there? And what exactly is that place not named?

I have attempted to postulate it is in the four corner area of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona. Do you have a better idea? The Messiah said, We must GATHER to where the Eagles have gathered to feast upon the carcass...

[S'cwene'yti]

In reference to Matt: 24-28, Elder Bruce R. McKonkie stated the following-- "In the parable, as here given, the carcass is the body of the Church to which the eagles, who are Israel, shall fly to find nourishment. 'The gathering of Israel is first spiritual and second temporal. It is spiritual in that the lost sheep of Israel are first 'restored to the true Church and fold of God,' meaning that they come to a true knowledge of the God of Israel, accept the gospel which he has restored in latter days, and join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is temporal in that these converts are then 'gathered home to the lands of their inheritance, and... established in all their lands of promise' (2 Nephi 9:2; 25:15-18; Jeremiah 16:14-21), meaning that the house of Joseph will be established in America, the house of Judah in Palestine, and that the Lost Tribes will come to Ephraim in America to receive their blessings in due course. (D&C 133.)" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 280)