Like a Woman in Travail

[NoGreaterLove]

A Woman in Travail

The saints had just been driven out of Nauvoo and were stationed at Winter Quarters. The Lord comforts them and speaks of a Woman in Travail.

Section 136
The word and will of the Lord, given through President Brigham Young at Winter Quarters, the camp of Israel, Omaha Nation, on the west bank of the Missouri River, near Council Bluffs, Iowa (see Journal History of the Church, 14 Jan. 1847).

34 Thy brethren have rejected you and your testimony, even the nation that has driven you out;
35 And now cometh the day of their calamity, even the days of sorrow, like a woman that is taken in travail; and their sorrow shall be great unless they speedily repent, yea, very speedily.
36 For they killed the prophets, and them that were sent unto them; and they have shed innocent blood, which crieth from the ground against them.
37 Therefore, marvel not at these things, for ye are not yet pure; ye can not yet bear my glory; but ye shall behold it if ye are faithful in keeping all my words that I have given you, from the days of Adam to Abraham, from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Jesus and his apostles, and from Jesus and his apostles to Joseph Smith, whom I did call upon by mine angels, my ministering servants, and by mine own voice out of the heavens, to bring forth my work;

This is Jeremiah seeing this event.

Jeremiah 4:
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Now Christ tells the Nephites about what the Gentiles will do to not only the saints in America, but all of Israel who they will scatter.

3 Nephi 20:
15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.
19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.
20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.
21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.
22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.
23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.

Hosea prophesied of Ephraim (America) as the place where His children (saints) will break forth. He prophesies against them and tells how they will be destroyed.

Hosea 13:
12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid.
13 The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children.
14 I will ransom them (the children, saints) from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death (resurrection): O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction (Christ overcame death): repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
15 ¶Though he (Ephraim) be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind (the destroying army) shall come, the wind of the Lord shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword (war): their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Micah 4:
10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city (Jerusalem), and thou shalt dwell in the field (taken up during apostacy), and thou shalt go even to Babylon (restored in America); there shalt thou be delivered (restoration); there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
11 ¶Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.
12 But they know not the thoughts of the Lord, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.
13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.


JST Revealation 12:
1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.

Isaiah 42:
13 The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.
15 I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.

1 Thessalonians
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

John 16:
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

[Oldemandalton]

Great Post NGL.

The news of the day is very much like a "woman in travail". The contractions are increasing in intensity and frequency. I believe that many people in this country feel it as well as many around the globe.
The birth will be the Second Coming. Much blood and pain during the childbirth but joy and happiness after.


OMD

[Original_Intent]

Great Post NGL.

The news of the day is very much like a "woman in travail". The contractions are increasing in intensity and frequency. I believe that many people in this country feel it as well as many around the globe.
The birth will be the Second Coming. Much blood and pain during the childbirth but joy and happiness after.


OMD

The second coming actually does not fit very well, as we know the devil or the beast is waiting to consume the child when it is delivered. Since Satan will be bound at the second coming, it doesn't really fit the revelation.

[Oldemandalton]

Original_Intent
The second coming actually does not fit very well, as we know the devil or the beast is waiting to consume the child when it is delivered. Since Satan will be bound at the second coming, it doesn't really fit the revelation.

Isaiah 42:14 is speaking of the restoration of the Church.

(16-19) Isaiah 42:9–16 . The Restoration of the Gospel in the Latter Days Foretold

The prophet Isaiah introduced the vision of the restoration of the gospel in the latter days by explaining that the truths and the keys of former days were to be restored. He also observed the restoration of new keys in the dispensation of the fulness of times (see v. 9 ). Using the metaphor of childbirth he described the restoration of the earthly kingdom following a long period of apostasy, during which the heavens had been sealed (see v. 14 ; compare Revelation 12:1–2, 13, 17 ). The Church will be restored in the last days, before the destruction that will make the mountains as plains and dry up the waters, and before the return of the scattered tribes of Israel, when they will come on paths they have not known, and the light of the gospel will dispel the darkness they have so long endured (see Isaiah 42:15–16 ). Isaiah reiterated the Lord’s promise that the restored gospel would not be taken again from the earth and that the Lord will not forsake His own. (See v. 16 ; compare Isaiah 2:2–3 ; 11:11–16 ; 29:14–15, 18–19 ; Daniel 2:44–45 ; Joel 2:25–29 .)
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/old-te ... sa2-16.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The last two quotes of NoGreaterLove’s actually are likening the tribulations before the 2nd Coming to childbirth.

1 Thessalonians
Chapter 5
The Saints will know the season of the Second Coming of Christ—Live the way Saints should live—Rejoice evermore—Do not despise prophesyings.
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

John 16:19-22
19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into bjoy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Sorry, OI, I should have been more specific on which references I was referring too. Hope this helps clarify the confusion.

OMD

[NoGreaterLove]

I can not say I completely understand this. It is new material for me to study. I am familiar with BRM view of the beast ready to devour the child as soon at it is born and his application to this being the apostasy. However, as anyone can see Christ himself used this term to describe his second coming. So just like any other prophecy, it can be fulfilled in many ways, many times.
The woman is the Church of God, her child is the Kingdom of God and Christ according to Rev. 12. So the Kingdom of God IMO is born when Christ begins his reign. His reign appears to begin when he is crowned at AOA which happens in front of the saints who are present to sustain him.
OMD gave a great analogy of the blood and pain that precedes a birth as being the precursor to the actual delivery. It gets to its worst just minutes before delivery. The contractions are so close together. A great analogy of the persecution of the saints just before Christ comes. The blood in these latter days began in the early church with Joseph, Hyrum and the many saints that were murdered. But I think the blood with gush forth more when the water breaks.

[NoGreaterLove]

JS made a huge change to this chapter and reversed the order of it. I wish I had it available to me at work. Here is the King James version. I am familiar with the common interpretations given of this describing the apostasy. However, IMO this has a modern day application too.
The church is still in the wilderness, just like the Israelites were before they were allowed to enter the promised land. Christ says we are in the wilderness because we can not be in his presence yet (D&C). So taking that into consideration, look at the following verse.

Rev 12

14 And to the woman (the Church of God) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness (Missouri, Utah, can not be in Christ's presence yet), into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood (here is the flood preceding birth, maybe the civil war and the pending internal conflicts) after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood (be destroyed by the internal conflicts).
16 And the earth helped the woman (Relocation to Utah to avoid Civil War and when Adam comes to AOA), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant (the children of Israel who are still gathering) of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Rand]

I can not say I completely understand this. It is new material for me to study. I am familiar with BRM view of the beast ready to devour the child as soon at it is born and his application to this being the apostasy. However, as anyone can see Christ himself used this term to describe his second coming. So just like any other prophecy, it can be fulfilled in many ways, many times.
The woman is the Church of God, her child is the Kingdom of God and Christ according to Rev. 12. So the Kingdom of God IMO is born when Christ begins his reign.

From the Sunday School Manual: "Explain that the woman described in Revelation 12:1–2, 5 represents the Church of God. The child she brought forth represents the kingdom of God—the government that will exist on the earth during Jesus Christ’s millennial reign. " I don't think the child represents Christ, but His governing kingdom. But the JST can make it look like that. Well,..... I dunno.

[paper face]

In many ways the Kingdom of God and Christ are "one", but only in the sense that a bride and bridegroom are "one". The "child" in this sense represents the Kingdom of God in the sense that the Bridegroom will finally be 'one' with the Bride. They will no longer be two separate entities. Their 'oneness' will constitute the Kingdom of God because sovereignty is only possible in a marriage.

Satan seeks to hijack the marriage. He always wants to take Christ's place because he is doomed to be a bachelor. Hence, he attempts to draw all of us into his false covenants so that we will "already be married" when Christ arrives. That is the meaning of the dragon attempting to devour the child, he's like a spurned lover who doesn't get it when he is rejected by a woman who has promised herself to someone else. So he terrorizes her and tries to seduce her until the Bridegroom arrives.

In this sense we must understand that the war over the womb, the font, the chapel,and the temple will rage until Christ arrives. Those are the front lines of this fight. The woman (church) attempts to rebirth mankind through Christ's ordinances (including consummation, as per Jeffrey R Holland) while the adversary seduces the world (and especially the saints) with counterfeits for each ordinance.

These counterfeits include all sin, but especially fornication, adultery, abuse, tearing down the church, destroying faith, and the mass seduction and recontextualization of what marriage is. If Lucifer can destroy marriage, then he's got most of us by the balls. Literally. Why? Because marriage is the grand metaphor that Christ uses to discuss his atonement and the 'birthing' of the Kingdom of God that we are talking about.

"Travail" is the perfect word for the event. Birthing is no party. In fact, it is a cut because it tears the vulva. All cuts upon the body are covenants, and the tearing of the "body of Christ" will be no different.

[NoGreaterLove]

I can not say I completely understand this. It is new material for me to study. I am familiar with BRM view of the beast ready to devour the child as soon at it is born and his application to this being the apostasy. However, as anyone can see Christ himself used this term to describe his second coming. So just like any other prophecy, it can be fulfilled in many ways, many times.
The woman is the Church of God, her child is the Kingdom of God and Christ according to Rev. 12. So the Kingdom of God IMO is born when Christ begins his reign.

From the Sunday School Manual: "Explain that the woman described in Revelation 12:1–2, 5 represents the Church of God. The child she brought forth represents the kingdom of God—the government that will exist on the earth during Jesus Christ’s millennial reign. " I don't think the child represents Christ, but His governing kingdom. But the JST can make it look like that. Well,..... I dunno.

That is why I wish I had the JS translation of it. In that chapter it defines the child as the kingdom of God and Christ. I can not remember the exact verbiage. I think it is on this forum somewhere, I will see if I can find it.

[NoGreaterLove]

Ah, here it is Look at the note at the bottom of the page from LDS.org

[Note the changed sequence of verses in the JST.]

This is where I got those definitions from.

"nor the woman which was the church of God"
" brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ"

Revelation 12:1–17
1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.
4 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman which was delivered, ready to devour her child after it was born.
5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.
6 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.
9 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ;
10 For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 For they have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; for they loved not their own lives, but kept the testimony even unto death. Therefore, rejoice O heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
12 And after these things I heard another voice saying, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, yea, and they who dwell upon the islands of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 For when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 Therefore, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent casteth out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helpeth the woman, and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth up the flood which the dragon casteth out of his mouth.
17 Therefore, the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
[Note the changed sequence of verses in the JST.]

[Sarah]

Was doing a little searching and thought this was a great thread.

[leisure_59]

If this will help any, I will add my understanding of Rev. 12. JST

In verse 1, the "great sign" was what happened in heaven "in the likeness of things on the earth". So the first 11 verses are describing what happened in the pre-mortal world. Verse 12 states "after these things", then talks about the earthlife and a similar thing will take place in the endtimes.

Verse 4 describes Babylon in the pre-mortal world where Lucifer (Red Dragon) wielding great power (10 horns) and (7 heads) political network drew a THIRD PART of the STARS OF HEAVEN (not 1/3 nor 33%, but a portion of the leaders who like Lucifer had enough knowledge to become Sons of Perdition). They were not successful in overcoming the Kingdom of God during their short 1,260 YEARS of trying to thwart it and were cast out on the Earth (verse 8).

We (of Israel) overcame Lucifer and his angels via our testimonies in Christ (verse 11). Verse 13 indicates he still is persecuting the "woman".

The woman (Church of God), v.14, will flee into the wilderness 42 months while the serpent will send "waters as a flood" (waters=hosts of people)
after the "remnant of her seed" (v. 17).

[Rosevhs]

Can I give one more interpretation of Revelations 12? I think it is quite possible that John is talking about the 'signs' in the heaven that metaphorically retell the story of the birth of Christ, but in actuality are really "signs" or markers for events which will shortly transpire. Consider this point of view here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... vKR5neGYa8