The Abomination of Desolation

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Luke: Thankas for rehearsing the relevant scriptures. I guess we don't have to wait too long to see if you're right.. less than three monts? Be ready to be attacked by Shadow if you're wrong about exact date by right about an event. Can it handle the attack? :-ss

[LukeAir2008]

Luke: Thankas for rehearsing the relevant scriptures. I guess we don't have to wait too long to see if you're right.. less than three monts? Be ready to be attacked by Shadow if you're wrong about exact date by right about an event. Can it handle the attack? :-ss

I dont take any credit for working out that September 23 is probably the day. Dr. David Cohen worked it out and he got his info from the Scriptures and the Prophet Joseph Smith. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. But I don't believe the Lord is going to let such an event pass without a remarkable sign. I don't worry about the mocking. It means I must be doing something right!

[GregoryR]

Ok .... The 144,000 are set apart, sealed,etc. during the sixth seal. If this event is to occur at AOA then AOA takes place in the sixth seal. Before this event takes place there is the world-wide earthquake in Rev 6. Then there is the half hour of silence,20.83 years approx. during which all the drama of Rev 8, 9, 10 take place. Bottom line if the 144,000 are sealed at AOA, that means that there is at least and possibly more than 20.83 years between AOA and the second coming of Christ in his glory

[freedomforall]

Gregory: I feel that the 144,000 will be chosen to go forth at AOA. They will be directly oirdained by the new King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

They may be those alive and those ressurected to be at AOA. IF the OT description of this event is accurate, then there will be many millions of people there so 144,000 would be perhaps just 1-3% of attendees. What say ye?

If I may interject...the 144,000 are comprised of 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes.
D&C 77:11
Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?

A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.


Rev 7:5-8
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

[davedan]

There is no scriptures that I know of that require that Opening of Seals need to be associated with any particular grand signs. The Seals represent 1000 year periods of time. We are told in D&C 77 that event would occur at the beginning of a seal or the later end of a seal.

But during the 7th Seal, we will witness the warning sound of the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation followed by the 7 vials of Wrath. But the trumpets don't necessarily need to begin sounding at the very opening of the seal.

[GregoryR]

I agree. The only thing that the seals do is to tell us when a particular event will occur or begin to occur.

Davedan: Are you a sixth sealer yet?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Freedom Fighter: Did you notice that the tribe of Dan is NOT included? The fact that representatives of the other tribes are selected to be among the 144,000 and most people joining the Church are of Joseph, what does that tell us about the timing of the selction process?

[sixth seal]

Ok .... The 144,000 are set apart, sealed,etc. during the sixth seal. If this event is to occur at AOA then AOA takes place in the sixth seal. Before this event takes place there is the world-wide earthquake in Rev 6. Then there is the half hour of silence,20.83 years approx. during which all the drama of Rev 8, 9, 10 take place. Bottom line if the 144,000 are sealed at AOA, that means that there is at least and possibly more than 20.83 years between AOA and the second coming of Christ in his glory

Sounds about right!

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Much of the conclusions I see here assume that the 1/2 hour of silence is 21 years? Why that deduction?

[Tribunal]

What could cause a world-wide earthquake? I don't think anything 'on' the Earth could cause something so large? Something from space?

And if something were to cause a world-wide earthquake, and end communication for about 21 years, that would bring the world back to the stone ages.

The scenario sounds like the makings of a movie. A big rock from space causes a world-wide earthquake, destroying much of the Earth, and brings the survivors to the stone ages. Survivors come together under basic ideologies. The basic ideologies fight for survival and domination over all the Earth. God comes to the rescue.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Tribunal: Darn you caught me. I was market testing here on the forum to see if our movie would be a big hit. X(

[Original_Intent]

Much of the conclusions I see here assume that the 1/2 hour of silence is 21 years? Why that deduction?

It's based on the thousand years for man = 1 day of God's time.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OI" Thanks for this info. I've assumed for many years that it represents God's time. Given that God has told us He would greatly speed up end time events, I'm beginning to take somehat more literraly. If I'm correct, we don't have much time left to repent and take other actions. If it's 21 years, oh well I can procrastinate quite a few more years.

What say ye?

[freedomforall]

Much of the conclusions I see here assume that the 1/2 hour of silence is 21 years? Why that deduction?

It's based on the thousand years for man = 1 day of God's time.

Gerald Lund says:

"Given that we are told that one Kolob "day" is equal to 1000 of our years, if one were to carry the ratio down to smaller units of time we see some interesting implications.

Kolob Time.....................................Earth Time
1 day............................................1000 years
1 hour...........................................41.67 years
1 minute........................................253 days
1 second........................................422 days
.25 second......................................1.1 days
.01 second......................................1 hour

Think about that. While a person on Kolob takes a two hour nap a person on earth is born, lives to the age of eighty, and dies before the other awakens. One blink on the part of a Kolobian and he misses one whole day of ours."

[freedomforall]

What could cause a world-wide earthquake?

I watched a program that helped my understand this very question.
Several Mega-Quakes (9+ on the Richter) occuring in a close timeframe could trigger other faults around the world that have never given any problem, as well as the one's like San Andreas that continually do damage. This is how the earth will "reel to and fro as a drunken man."

D&C 49:23
23 Wherefore, be not deceived, but continue in steadfastness, looking forth for the heavens to be shaken, and the earth to tremble and to reel to and fro as a drunken man, and for the valleys to be exalted, and for the mountains to be made low, and for the rough places to become smooth—and all this when the angel shall sound his ftrumpet.

1 heavens to be shaken
2 earth to tremble and to reel to and fro as a drunken man
3 valleys to be exalted
4 mountains to be made low
5 rough places to become smooth

[Original_Intent]

OI" Thanks for this info. I've assumed for many years that it represents God's time. Given that God has told us He would greatly speed up end time events, I'm beginning to take somehat more literraly. If I'm correct, we don't have much time left to repent and take other actions. If it's 21 years, oh well I can procrastinate quite a few more years.

What say ye?

I agree with the 21-ish year interpretation. It does NOT mean we can procrastinate for several reasons:

1) If we are not aware when the half hour of silence starts (or started) we have no guarantee of a couple of decades to repent.
2) We don;t know what all might be going on during said 21 year period. The half hour of silence could be some pretty interesting years, if it is years.

I also have soem personal thoughts that are my own regarding 21 years could be divided up into 3 7 year periods - 7 years of plenty, 7 of famine, 7 of ??? (some possibilities are 7 years of recovery to see if our repentance "took" - or it could be 7 years of cleansing. The significance of 777 COULD be meaningful - but again this is just speculation on my part.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OI: Interesting that 21 is three times seven. The number seven is very symbolic in God's methods. It usually represents the end/completion of one situation and the beginning of another. With all the good scripturians here, I'm sure we could come up with quite a long list of 7s. How would this fit in or not fit in with GBH's two GC sermons on seven years of plenty and 7 years of "bad times?"

Also we've talked about 42 weeks. 6 times 7 + 42. maybe qwe're rally on to something???

[GregoryR]

Well let's get busy again! Most of the explanations of this is contained in the post the unfolding of God's work in the last days, however let me summarize.

1. The reason why the half hour of silence is 20.83 years appprox. earth time is: This is the only time the at "time in heaven" is mentioned. It does not make sense that we try to make it "time in earth" Next if you look at D & C 88 it states that after the large earthquake in the sixth seal (I am comparing this directly to Rev 6) that there is silence in heaven for the space of half an hour then the face of the Lord will be revealed. There is simply not enough time to have all the events of Rev 8-10 and the 42 month siege of Jerusalem prior to the lord coming happen all in the space of 30 minutes of earth time. There is a reason why the scriptures say time in heaven, it's because it's time in heaven.

2. There are many things that can cause a world-wide earthquake and Heavenly Father knows them all.

3. If you want to wait and repent I think it might slow down your progression.

I think I should get busy and make a chart with time sequence information and scriptural references so it would facilitate discussion.

Does that sound ok?

[durangout]

Well let's get busy again! Most of the explanations of this is contained in the post the unfolding of God's work in the last days, however let me summarize.

1. The reason why the half hour of silence is 20.83 years appprox. earth time is: This is the only time the at "time in heaven" is mentioned. It does not make sense that we try to make it "time in earth" Next if you look at D & C 88 it states that after the large earthquake in the sixth seal (I am comparing this directly to Rev 6) that there is silence in heaven for the space of half an hour then the face of the Lord will be revealed. There is simply not enough time to have all the events of Rev 8-10 and the 42 month siege of Jerusalem prior to the lord coming happen all in the space of 30 minutes of earth time. There is a reason why the scriptures say time in heaven, it's because it's time in heaven.

2. There are many things that can cause a world-wide earthquake and Heavenly Father knows them all.

3. If you want to wait and repent I think it might slow down your progression.

I think I should get busy and make a chart with time sequence information and scriptural references so it would facilitate discussion.

Does that sound ok?

GregoryR:
Question: You have stated a couple of times (for example as above) that the 7 Trumpet Judgements occur DURING the 1/2 Hour of Silence. Could you please explain your rationale for this. It seems to me that the 7 Trumpet Judgements come AFTER the 1/2 Hour of Silence.

Thanks.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Gregory: Yes, timelines are extremely useful to focus our thoughts and discussions around.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

I 2nd Durangos request. IMO, this is very important to resolve.

[sixth seal]

Well let's get busy again! Most of the explanations of this is contained in the post the unfolding of God's work in the last days, however let me summarize.

1. The reason why the half hour of silence is 20.83 years appprox. earth time is: This is the only time the at "time in heaven" is mentioned. It does not make sense that we try to make it "time in earth" Next if you look at D & C 88 it states that after the large earthquake in the sixth seal (I am comparing this directly to Rev 6) that there is silence in heaven for the space of half an hour then the face of the Lord will be revealed. There is simply not enough time to have all the events of Rev 8-10 and the 42 month siege of Jerusalem prior to the lord coming happen all in the space of 30 minutes of earth time. There is a reason why the scriptures say time in heaven, it's because it's time in heaven.

2. There are many things that can cause a world-wide earthquake and Heavenly Father knows them all.

3. If you want to wait and repent I think it might slow down your progression.

I think I should get busy and make a chart with time sequence information and scriptural references so it would facilitate discussion.

Does that sound ok?

GregoryR:
Question: You have stated a couple of times (for example as above) that the 7 Trumpet Judgements occur DURING the 1/2 Hour of Silence. Could you please explain your rationale for this. It seems to me that the 7 Trumpet Judgements come AFTER the 1/2 Hour of Silence.

Thanks.

I'm not trying to speak for GregoryR, but maybe I can explain why the 7 trumpet judgements probably occur during the 1/2 hour of silence. In D&C 88:95, the Lord states that there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled. So the seventh seal is opened and the 1/2 hour of silence is started. Then immediately after the 1/2 hour of silence concludes, the curtain of heaven is departed and the Lord comes. The 7 trumpet judgements clearly occur in the seventh seal, so they must take place during the 1/2 hour of silence. Remember, the silence is from heaven's perspective not earth's. Things will be quite active down here during that period of time.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Sixth: Wow, I've missed that in my studies. It would be very hard to dispute your conclusions. Thank you.

[GregoryR]

Thanks Sixth, I should use you when I'm not available.

Another thing to note on the silence in heaven is that it is more of a descriptive attitude. Due to the wickedness of the world, the destuctions from the world-wide earthquake (Rev 6), the love of men waxing cold, etc.. that heaven is somber. This is a description of how heaven is feeling. Remember that now after the seveth seal is opened there are more judgements to come upon the people. As amatter of fact things are going to get worse.

This attitude is confirmed by D&C 38:11,12

"For all flesh is corrupted before me: and the powers of darkness prevail upon the earth, among the children of men, in the presence of all the hosts of heaven--Which causeth silence to reign, and all eternity is pained, and the angels are waiting the great command to reap down the earth, to gather the tares that they may be burned; and, behold the enemy is combined.

[7cylon7]

How did this get on the Six Seal or the Seventh Seal?????? This was a thread about the abomination of Desolation that Danial talked about.

We just has a lesson in GD last week about this very topic. I don't think anyone in the room knew what it was about. Maybe they were just being courteous about the topic.

Also a guy brought up the fact that the gospel would be preached to all the world and since that has not happened yet that the second coming to way far away and a lady also said the Prophet asked us to pray for the nations to be opened for our missionaries to go into them. The inferred meaning was that why would the prophet ask us to pray to get into china if the second coming was near.... a good question.

I had to interject and this is what I said. The second coming is not a one time event. What we refer to as "the second coming" is really three different comings of the savior. 1. AOA 2. The appearance to the Jews in old Jerusalem and 3. the final coming in great glory to all the world. I explained that the preaching to all the world most definitely will happen but that it's fulfillment might not happen until or just before his coming in great glory.... mean the coming to the jews could happen and still the gospel has not been preached in China. So the second coming could be a lot closer than you think.

All I got was blank stares.... really not one comment about what I said. The teacher just went on with the normal their will be wars and rumors of wars and ect.... blah blah blah...

After church I had two people come up to me and start asking some questions and one older gentleman mentioned that a lot of people forget about AOA. I am making a short resource guide of books and websites that I user to study the second coming and will give this out to them next week.