The Abomination of Desolation

[Samuel the Lamanite]

FreedomFighter: I think where we seem to differ is how seriously we take the covenants made in the Temple. I have oiften witheld going to the Temple because I knew my heart was NOT right as much as it should be. I had a TR at those times. I did nOT want to be a hypocrite as I knew God knew me. Of all sins that Jesus "detested" most and was very hard about was hypocrisy. I will simply agree to disagree with you. It looks like we see the importance of truly keeping our covenants especially the Law of Consecration. No hard feeelings on my part.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Freedom Fighter: Since I'm NOT a Bishop or SP, I can do nothing to stop a person from refusing to live their covenants. It does effect me because someone having a TR under these circumstances and going to the Temple IMO lessens the power of the Spirit there.

[freedomforall]

What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces. Because man is throwing God out into the street, sin, perversion and distorted thinking has taken over the masses, this includes those of whom attend their church, people that claim to follow Christ with their lips, but are far from Him in their hearts. The righteous left over...MUST PREVAIL.

So in today's Deseret News, a front page story shows how the Millennial generation (those ages 15-25), a majority think gays wanting to marry is a great thing, and they think it should be legal about 52% in favor of gay marriage, about 70% in favor of gay sex being legal (even among young LDS polled). The writer was clearly pointing out how even among LDS young adults...they are rejecting the moral values of their baby boomer parents, and also their WW2 grandparents (still can't bring themselves to say abortion is morally okay, but 2/3 ant it legal in all cases).

The article points out how the entertainment industry has been successful in convincing the young that gays are hip, cool, fun, popular....even my ex-wife's daughters reported that while they were at Orem HS in 2004-2006, that all the popular guys were gay or had to act gay to be popular and well liked - the in-crowd.

Sad.

Won't be long till we'll be watching love scenes on TV with gay couples involved. I've already noticed an increase of scenes in which two males/two females are kissing.

Who was it that said the media is now set on a more liberal form of viewing by the public? The FCC has gone down the "you know what" a long time ago.

I suppose I'll have to be content in listening to all 1399 episodes of CBS Radio Mystery Theater. There's a lot of old-time radio stuff out there for our entertainment.

[freedomforall]

FreedomFighter: I think where we seem to differ is how seriously we take the covenants made in the Temple. I have oiften witheld going to the Temple because I knew my heart was NOT right as much as it should be. I had a TR at those times. I did nOT want to be a hypocrite as I knew God knew me. Of all sins that Jesus "detested" most and was very hard about was hypocrisy. I will simply agree to disagree with you. It looks like we see the importance of truly keeping our covenants especially the Law of Consecration. No hard feeelings on my part.

My understanding is this: The Lord doesn't allow sin in the least degree of allowance (D&C 1:31). So it makes no difference which one we commit. Unless we repent and continue doing our best, even if our best doesn't match Bro X, Bro Y and Sister O, that is all we can do. PLEASE SEE: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There is an audio and a transcript of a great talk by Stephen E Robinson on this very topic.
There's another scripture that tells us not to run any faster than we are able (Mosiah 4:26,27).
When it comes to Temple service, there is two ways to look at it. ! Don't go because we feel unworthy for some reason, 2 Go, even if feeling unworthy, because once inside we can feel and enjoy the peace and serenity it provides...which in turn can help us to do and live better. The Temple is not for the perfect, it is for those STRIVING to become so. All of us fall short somewhere, but that is up to God to decide. Even those going on missions are sinners to some degree, so its not just the Law of Consecration that will or will not keep them out of heaven. Sins of commission, and sins of omission will get us all at some time or another. That is why we have the Atonement. We cannot perfect ourselves. Otherwise, what need have we of a SAVIOR?
Even with all my downfalls, if I didn't have "hope for a better world", there would be no point in continueing church activity at all.
Some members just attend church as a social thing, others are seeking to know what the gospel is all about, still others are striving to live each day with Jesus Christ in their hearts, falling down, getting back up, falling down again, and getting back up. In this life, do you know any better way?

[Nan]

FreedomFighter: I think where we seem to differ is how seriously we take the covenants made in the Temple. I have oiften witheld going to the Temple because I knew my heart was NOT right as much as it should be. I had a TR at those times. I did nOT want to be a hypocrite as I knew God knew me. Of all sins that Jesus "detested" most and was very hard about was hypocrisy. I will simply agree to disagree with you. It looks like we see the importance of truly keeping our covenants especially the Law of Consecration. No hard feeelings on my part.

My understanding is this: The Lord doesn't allow sin in the least degree of allowance (D&C 1:31). So it makes no difference which one we commit. Unless we repent and continue doing our best, even if our best doesn't match Bro X, Bro Y and Sister O, that is all we can do. PLEASE SEE: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There is an audio and a transcript of a great talk by Stephen E Robinson on this very topic.
There's another scripture that tells us not to run any faster than we are able (Mosiah 4:26,27).
When it comes to Temple service, there is two ways to look at it. ! Don't go because we feel unworthy for some reason, 2 Go, even if feeling unworthy, because once inside we can feel and enjoy the peace and serenity it provides...which in turn can help us to do and live better. The Temple is not for the perfect, it is for those STRIVING to become so. All of us fall short somewhere, but that is up to God to decide. Even those going on missions are sinners to some degree, so its not just the Law of Consecration that will or will not keep them out of heaven. Sins of commission, and sins of omission will get us all at some time or another. That is why we have the Atonement. We cannot perfect ourselves. Otherwise, what need have we of a SAVIOR?
Even with all my downfalls, if I didn't have "hope for a better world", there would be no point in continueing church activity at all.
Some members just attend church as a social thing, others are seeking to know what the gospel is all about, still others are striving to live each day with Jesus Christ in their hearts, falling down, getting back up, falling down again, and getting back up. In this life, do you know any better way?

I agree about going even if you feel unworthy UNLESS you are committing sins that would cause you to not get a temple recommend. If you are breaking commandments that would prevent you from getting a recommend you should not be in the Temple and will be held accountable for going.

[davedan]

Pray untill you feel like praying
Attend church until you feel like repenting

You dont have to be perfect to attend the temple. But the purpose of the temple is to sanctify and purify us. "holines to the Lord" The promise of the consecration covenant is sanctification.

I said noone is perfect in the temple. However, the minimum requirements to be worthy to attend the temple are in 1 Cor 5: fornication(purity), coveter(tithing), idolator(sustain leaders), railer(abuse), drunkard(wow), extortioner(honest). This is the basis for the TR interview. if there are major sins in these areas, you should talk to Bishop and clear it up.

Otherwise, attend the temple and let the spirit there work on you and motivate you to live a life of consecration and ministering to the 1 which will help you lose any desire for sin. "if thou wilt be perfect...."

[Samuel the Lamanite]

DaveDan and others: I know one doesn't have to be perfect to go to the Temple but I appreciate the reminding. IMO, the Law of Consecration encapulates all other commandments because we devote all out=r soul, time, talents, resources to the building up of the KofG and the estabnlishment of Zion. If that is NOT serioulsy in the heart and intensions of every TR holder and when given an opportunity to live it refuise to do so, I frankly can't see how repenting of lesser sins makes one worthy to attend. LopfC is the law of the highest degree of celestial kingdom. The other sins are for Terrrestrial and lowest level of the Clestial Kingdom. When if ever will the Saints be progressing to Clestial Law? The time is near for the 2nd Coming. The issues of Consecration are rising rapidly. IMO, we better take them much more seriously or we are mocking God.

[Songbird]

We covered this in Sunday School today...One definition is that it is the desolation of abominations.....

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbirdf: Would you share with us the most important insight(s) you got from the SS lesson? Was it a manual lesson or one selected by the teacher?

[Songbird]

Songbirdf: Would you share with us the most important insight(s) you got from the SS lesson? Was it a manual lesson or one selected by the teacher?

I am the teacher and I followed the manual for the lesson. We just touched on this. I get a lot of my information from the scriptures themselves but for the abomination of desolation, I got it from the Bible Dictionary: Color and italics are my addition to this quote.

Abomination of desolation
Abomination of desolation. Daniel spoke prophetically of a day when there would be “the abomination that maketh desolate” (Dan. 11:31; 12:11), and the phrase was recoined in New Testament times to say “the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet” (Matt. 24:15).

Conditions of desolation, born of abomination and wickedness, were to occur twice in fulfillment of Daniel’s words. The first was to be when the Roman legions under Titus, in A.D. 70, laid siege to Jerusalem (Matt. 24:15; JS—M 1:12).

Speaking of the last days, of the days following the restoration of the gospel and its declaration “for a witness unto all nations,” our Lord said: “And again shall the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled” (JS—M 1:31–32). That is, Jerusalem again will be under siege.

In a general sense, abomination of desolation also describes the latter-day judgments to be poured out upon the wicked wherever they may be. And so that the honest in heart may escape these things, the Lord sends his servants forth to raise the warning voice, to declare the glad tidings of the restoration, lest “desolation and utter abolishment” come upon them. The elders are commanded to reprove “the world in righteousness of all their unrighteous and ungodly deeds, setting forth clearly and understandingly the desolation of abomination in the last days” (D&C 84:114, 117; 88:84–85).

[Songbird]

Songbirdf: Would you share with us the most important insight(s) you got from the SS lesson? Was it a manual lesson or one selected by the teacher?

The question I began the class with was this: If we were to have a great disaster tomorrow, what would you have wished you had done today, to be prepared? We covered the signs of the times and spent some time on how the saints will be protected against deception. I am enclosing my notes for you if you are interested.

Notes on the Second Coming of Jesus Christ: Sunday School Lesson 21; JST Matt 1/Matt 24
JST Matt 1:39
So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
What are “these” things?
1. There shall not be here one stone left on another (3)
2. Take heed that no man deceive you. Many shall come and say, “I am Christ.” (5-6, 21-22)
3. Deliver you up to be afflicted. Shall kill you. (7)
4. You shall be hated for Christ’s sake. (7)
5. Many shall be offended. (8)
6. Many shall betray one another. (8)
7. Men shall hate one another. (8)
8. False prophets shall arise. (9)
9. Because of iniquity, love of many shall wax cold. (10, 30)
10. The Abomination of Desolation (12) See Bible Dictionary, “Abomination of Desolation” p 608
11. Stand in Holy Places. (12)
12. Those in Judea>>flee to the mountains. (13)
13. Flee and do not return to your house to take anything. (14-15)
14. Pray that your flight not be in winter nor on the Sabbath. (17)
15. Great Tribulations of the people in Jerusalem. (18-19)
16. All things that have come upon them, (the Jews), is just the beginning of the sorrows that shall come upon them.
17. We shall hear of wars and rumors of wars. (28)
18. Nation shall rise against nation. (29)
19. Kingdom against kingdom. (29)
20. There shall be famines, pestilences, earthquakes. (29)
21. Iniquity shall abound (30)
22. Love of men shall wax cold. (30)
23. The Gospel shall be preached for a witness to all nations. (31)
24. The sun shall be darkened, moon shall not give her light. (33)
25. The stars shall fall from Heaven. (33)
26. The powers of Heaven shall be shaken. (33)
27. Then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven. (36)
28. The tribes of the earth shall mourn. (36)
29. Son of man shall be seen coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory.
AND
Whoso treasure up my work, shall not be deceived.
When we see these things >> we know he is near.
He that remains steadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
Be ready – be a faithful and a wise servant and be found doing that which the Lord would have you be doing – His work.
NOTES on the Elect and Deception
Matthew 24:24 if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect
Many shall be deceived by the false prophets of the last days, but the elect will not be deceived. The scripture says, ‘if it were possible,’ but it is not. Latter-day prophets tell us that the elect cannot be deceived:

Elder Jedediah M. Grant
“The Priesthood is a power we should respect, reverence, and obey, no matter in whose hands it is. Let Lucifer mix in truths with error, and work great signs and wonders to deceive the very elect, but it is not possible. Why? Because they have learned the Priesthood, and they possess the power thereof that cannot be shaken. Let the Rappers go ahead, then, for it is not possible for them to deceive the elect of God; and let the witch of Endor, and all other witches and wizards, with the prince and power of the air at their head, do their best, if we keep the commandments of God we shall continually soar far above their power and influence.” (Journal of Discourses, 2: 16.)

Joseph Smith
“Until we have perfect love, we are liable to fall. And when we have a testimony that our names are sealed in the Lamb's book of life, we have perfect love, and then it is impossible for false Christs to deceive us.”
When a man goes about prophesying and commands men to obey his teachings, he must be either a true or false prophet. False prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones.” Joseph Smith’s Commentary on the Bible, ed. by Kent P. Jackson, 108)

Marion G. Romney
“This is a day of great conflict between truth and error. Satan is having a field day with the souls of men. Anti-christs stalk the earth in all lands, including our own. False philosophies and doctrines emanating from the prince of darkness are being presented in such appealing manner as almost to deceive the very elect. There is only one sure way to divine the truth from the error. That is to learn what the mind and will of the Father is on these matters, and then do it. You will find it declared on many issues in the messages of the First Presidency given in the general conferences.” (Conference Report, April 1945, Afternoon Meeting 90 - 91.)

Ezra Taft Benson
“There is a conspiracy of evil. The source of it all is Satan and his hosts. He has a great power over men to ‘lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken’ to the voice of the Lord (Moses 4:4). His evil influence may be manifest through governments; through false educational, political, economic, religious, and social philosophies; through secret societies and organizations; and through myriads of other forms. His power and influence are so great that, if possible, he would deceive the very elect (see Matthew 24:24). As the second coming of the Lord approaches, Satan's work will intensify through numerous insidious deceptions. (CR April 1978, Ensign 8 [May 1978]: 33.)
We know that Satan has great power to deceive, and because of this, we must be aware. The safeguard against his sophistry and deception has been specified by revelation. We are to give heed to the words of eternal life. In other words, we must understand and live by the revelations the Lord has granted to His prophets. These are contained in the four standard works and the written and public declarations of our current prophet. ("Three Imperative Responsibilities," London England Area Conference, 19-20 June 1976.)” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 404-405.)

Elder M. Russell Ballard gave the following counsel of hope and encouragement:
“Although the prophecies tell us that these things are to take place, more and more people are expressing great alarm at what appears to be an acceleration of worldwide calamity. … Admittedly we have ample reason to be deeply concerned because we see no immediate answers to the seemingly unsolvable problems confronting the human family. But regardless of this dark picture, which will ultimately get worse, we must never allow ourselves to give up hope! …
“… The Lord is in control. He knows the end from the beginning. He has given us adequate instruction that, if followed, will see us safely through any crisis. His purposes will be fulfilled, and someday we will understand the eternal reasons for all of these events. Therefore, today we must be careful not to overreact, nor should we be caught up in extreme preparations; but what we must do is keep the commandments of God and never lose hope!
“But where do we find hope in the midst of such turmoil and catastrophe? Quite simply, our one hope for spiritual safety during these turbulent times is to turn our minds and our hearts to Jesus Christ. … Armed with the shield of faith, we can overcome many of our daily challenges and overpower our greatest weaknesses and fears, knowing that if we do our best to keep the commandments of God, come what may, we will be all right” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1992, 41–43; or Ensign, Nov. 1992, 31–32).

Recommended reading on the Second Coming:

Mark 13; Luke 21:5–38; Doctrine and Covenants 45:15–55; Matt 24; D &C 112:24; 1 Thess 5:1-8; Luke 9:62; D&C 133:14-15; Matt 7:15-20; 1 John 4:16-18; D&C 6:34-36; D&C 45:34-35; D&C 59:23 plus many more.

The Coming of the Lord by Gerald Lund

Prophecy: The Key to the Future by Duane Crowther

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbird: I don't give out complements easily but you did a tremednous job. You make me wish I was in your Ward.

I'm curious: did you get through the entire lesson? Did you provide a handout simialr to what you posted here? How did the class react to your message? Did people really parycipate more than normal?

God bless you for providing the warning voice in your Ward. Be assured you will see several of your righetous desires met in the coming few weeks.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbird: The abomination speaks of a Satan substitute speaking from the Temple saying he is God. In your resaearch was this Temple mentioned anywhere? I certainly hope the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem is the one refeered to or we Mormon better be watching SLC Temple closely.

[Songbird]

Songbird: I don't give out complements easily but you did a tremednous job. You make me wish I was in your Ward.

I'm curious: did you get through the entire lesson? Did you provide a handout simialr to what you posted here? How did the class react to your message? Did people really parycipate more than normal?

God bless you for providing the warning voice in your Ward. Be assured you will see several of your righetous desires met in the coming few weeks.

No we did not get through the entire lesson. I read the entire lesson and then take what I feel the Spirit wants me to teach. This quote I made (above) was what I handed out to the class. (I don't always do hand outs, but when I know I want them to know more than I can put on the board, I make a hand out.) We are in a Branch and when I first came here it was really spotty in attendance. Those who are called to positions decide last minute they are not coming and it put a huge burden on the rest of us. The SS teacher before me did this often...just decided she wasn't going to come. I offered to fill in for her and was filling in for almost a year. Anyway, I spend a lot of time preparing the lesson and I make sure I tell them what the assignment is each coming week. I call them in the middle of the week and pass out things I would like them to do, and then during class, most of the time I don't ask questions for everyone to answer, I ask a question and then call on someone specifically. That way they have to stay on their toes. I also post on the board what I call study helps. It is in a small corner and usually it ties in with the lesson: JST, BD, TG, and teach them how to look for those things. I try to teach them other things like "these" this week, so that when they study they try to look out for things and enhance their study. And I taught them about scripture chains. I show them different ways to mark their scriptures and encourage them to use a dictionary even if they think they know a word. Occasionally, I will do that, and show them how it helps open up the meaning of the scripture they are reading. I also encourage them to study and assume that they do and will come prepared. I know there are more people studying their scriptures now than before and I am so grateful for this. My main goal for teaching is to help the students love the scriptures and think of them first when confronting a problem. The attendance in my class has gone up tremendously, I am grateful to say. I love to teach, and have had wonderful mentors.

As far as the class reacting to my message, I have been on them for months and months to get prepared. I often tie things going on in the world to the scriptures. For a while, if class was sitting there but it was not time to start, I would ask if anyone did anything to add to their food storage that week. Most people were so bad when it came to this and I knew it, so I just started asking. No one seems to mind.

The most important thing I try to remember to do is pray for the students during the week. I also ask that my prep will be just what they need and that they will come prepared.

The best thing about teaching is what I learn myself. I am not the most brilliant star in the sky so my studying has alterior motive. I have much to learn and I am good for this little branch, but if I were in a big ward, I would get swallowed up! I am tremendously blessed.

[Songbird]

Songbird: The abomination speaks of a Satan substitute speaking from the Temple saying he is God. In your resaearch was this Temple mentioned anywhere? I certainly hope the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem is the one refeered to or we Mormon better be watching SLC Temple closely.

Never came across this and I don't look for "out there" things. This is out there, IMO. It would not be beneficial for the class. I stick to the manual and quotes from Prophets and leaders if it will drive home my point. Otherwise everything is from the scriptures. If you write back and tell me this is somewhere in the scriptures, I have never read it and I would refer you back to the comment I made that says I am not the most brilliant star in the sky....sticking with what I read and know in the scriptures is the safest way to stay within the lesson material. I don't let conversation in the class go to things like this. I get hung up on man's opinions vs the word of God, so I cut off anything like that. I also hate speculation on the Word of God. The Spirit is the teacher and I need to keep myself, my opinion and anything else out of the lesson!!!!

[Original_Intent]

Songbird:

I taught the same lesson. I wonder if you missed the fact that much of what you posted is regarding the 70 A.D destruction of Jerusalem and are not signs of the Second Coming. And I wonder if you conveyed that to your class?

One of the things that I was strongly impressed with was the fact that Matthew 24 managed to get fairly jumbled during re-translation, and therefore it was hard to distinguish which question Jesus was answering (signs of Jerusalem destruction vs. signs of the Second Coming) and one of the great blessings of JST-Matthew was that it sorted those answers out. And there were SOME signs that would preced both events (those are repeated in the section on Jerusalem and the section on Second Coming.)

There are a few of the items that you have listed that were specific to Jerusalem destruction that are not mentioned as signs of the 2nd Coming: Items 1,3,4,5,6,12,13,14 jump out at me.

[SpeedRacer]

Pray untill you feel like praying
Attend church until you feel like repenting

You dont have to be perfect to attend the temple. But the purpose of the temple is to sanctify and purify us. "holines to the Lord" The promise of the consecration covenant is sanctification.

I said noone is perfect in the temple. However, the minimum requirements to be worthy to attend the temple are in 1 Cor 5: fornication(purity), coveter(tithing), idolator(sustain leaders), railer(abuse), drunkard(wow), extortioner(honest). This is the basis for the TR interview. if there are major sins in these areas, you should talk to Bishop and clear it up.

Otherwise, attend the temple and let the spirit there work on you and motivate you to live a life of consecration and ministering to the 1 which will help you lose any desire for sin. "if thou wilt be perfect...."

+1

The last question is the best. Do you consider yourself worthy to attend the temple? The rest are questions to guide your thoughts on that.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_Desolation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gotquestions.org/abomination-desolation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Holy Place means the Temple.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

fyi, HAVING SERVED ON THE HIGH COUNSEL, WE HAD A NUMBER OF COURTS LEADING TO eXCOMMUNICATION. iN EVERY CASE I WAS INVOLVED WITH, THE BROTHER HAD A CURRENT TR and had committed adultery. Certainly he will be held accountable for lying and still going to the Temple. Did he bring Satan in with him and'or a lying spirit?

In searching one's worthiness, what key questions should be asked? Would having hard feelings towards anyone count as unworthiness since to paratke of the Sacrament with such feelings, we are instructed by scriptures NOT to partake of it?

Certainy one doesn't have to be perfect BUT what specifically would disqualify a person?

[Songbird]

Songbird:

I taught the same lesson. I wonder if you missed the fact that much of what you posted is regarding the 70 A.D destruction of Jerusalem and are not signs of the Second Coming. And I wonder if you conveyed that to your class?

One of the things that I was strongly impressed with was the fact that Matthew 24 managed to get fairly jumbled during re-translation, and therefore it was hard to distinguish which question Jesus was answering (signs of Jerusalem destruction vs. signs of the Second Coming) and one of the great blessings of JST-Matthew was that it sorted those answers out. And there were SOME signs that would preced both events (those are repeated in the section on Jerusalem and the section on Second Coming.)

There are a few of the items that you have listed that were specific to Jerusalem destruction that are not mentioned as signs of the 2nd Coming: Items 1,3,4,5,6,12,13,14 jump out at me.

OI, I don't know that I agree with you if I understand you correctly. Many times, prophecies have a dual time frame. Are you saying the numbers I listed? If so, Joseph Smith went through many of those things and many people after him, including myself. Christ himself tells us that we will be hated for his sake. Also,

From Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

I can't see how these things are not pertinent today. Did I not understand you????

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbird: It's rare when a prophecy has just one fullfillent. What happens usuaually that the later fullfillments are greater with the last fullfillment being the cahnging of the earth into a Garden of Eden during the Millenium. IF one doesn't realize dual or more fullfillment, IMO will miss much.

[Songbird]

fyi, HAVING SERVED ON THE HIGH COUNSEL, WE HAD A NUMBER OF COURTS LEADING TO eXCOMMUNICATION. iN EVERY CASE I WAS INVOLVED WITH, THE BROTHER HAD A CURRENT TR and had committed adultery. Certainly he will be held accountable for lying and still going to the Temple. Did he bring Satan in with him and'or a lying spirit?

In searching one's worthiness, what key questions should be asked? Would having hard feelings towards anyone count as unworthiness since to paratke of the Sacrament with such feelings, we are instructed by scriptures NOT to partake of it?

Certainy one doesn't have to be perfect BUT what specifically would disqualify a person?

From my understanding, the Sacrament has been and always will be an ordinance for all to partake of UNLESS that person has knowingly broken commandments such as the law of chastity, murder and serious sins like that. With due respect to your HC council calling, in all the years I have been a member of the Church, I have always been taught by the Priesthood, that when we feel "unworthy" to partake of the Sacrament, because of hard feelings or whatever, that is when we need the Sacrament the most renewing our covenants and renewing our efforts to keep trying to do better. If such were the case, that hard feelings were a reason to not take the Sacrament, then I would wager that more than half the membership would not be worthy to take the Sacrament!

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbird: This may a time when the GAs differ from what the Bible says. Before bringing your gift to the alter, go and straighten out any hard feelings you have and forgive. If we don't do this, in effect how can we be forgiven by God when we take the Sacrament. In effect lack of forgiving is denying the Atonement. Now am I dissing the GAs but pointing out what Jesus Himself said?

[Original_Intent]

No Songbird, I certainly agree that many prophecies have multiple fulfillments, and certainly many of the destruction of Jerusalem prophecies also apply to the 2nd Coming.

HOWEVER (you knew that was coming, right?)

One of the points that was quite specifically made in the manual was that JS Matthew clarified which answers that Christ gave applied to the destruction of Jerusalem, and which applied to the 2nd coming. In fact, in many ways that was one of the MAJOR points of the lesson, because JS-Matthew clarifies what is somewhat muddied in the KJV Bible.

So it seems that recombining them only muddies the water that JS clarified. Brushing this off with "many prophecies have multiple fulfillments" is, intentionally or otherwise, avoiding the point that was being presented by the manual. I felt like this point was made pretty strongly in the lesson, and from your list provided above it seems you chose to disregard it. I was just wondering if it was an intentional decision or an oversight. Based on your response it appears to be the former.

From the lesson manual: (this was displayed prominently)

Scripture Discussion and Application
As you teach the following scripture passages, help class members understand that the Lord has revealed information to help us prepare for his Second Coming. In spite of the tribulations of the last days, we can look forward with joy to this great event.

Explain that Matthew 24 contains the Savior’s prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem and about his Second Coming. Over time, the verses in this chapter have been changed and rearranged, making it sometimes difficult to understand which event a particular verse describes. Fortunately, as part of his inspired translation of the Bible, Joseph Smith clarified the two prophecies and restored additional information. His inspired translation of Matthew 24 is found in Joseph Smith—Matthew in the Pearl of Great Price.

Use the Joseph Smith—Matthew account as you discuss the doctrines and principles in this lesson. Display the picture of the Second Coming throughout the lesson.

Again, stating that sometimes prophecies are fulfilled multiple times is not helpful in this case, as a central point of the lesson was to SEPERATE which event each statement applied to.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OI: I will drop out as I don't have access to the Teacher's Manual. I would say that it's clearly asked in the foreward of every manual I know of to stick to the lesson. Let's please do that everyone of us.