The Abomination of Desolation

[sixth seal]

Sixth: Thanks, From other posts of yours, I believe you said that AOA starts the 7th seal?

If you believe that then you are going to be very confused as events unfold. AOA takes place just before the Second Coming - and therefore must be during the Seventh Seal at the end of the 21 years of preparation for Christ's return.

As the Seventh Seal probably opens in three months time - they better get AOA organized quickly!

Your right, AOA does take place right before the Second Coming. The difference of opinion that we obviously have is in the concept of multiple appearances of the Lord making up the Second Coming. AOA takes place right before the building of New Jerusalem. We know that Jesus Christ comes to AOA. This is one appearance. Still in the sixth seal. Then the seventh seal opens with a half hour of silence (roughly 21 yrs). Then the seven trumpets... Christ appears to the Jews. Then a final appearance to the wicked world in general as He cleanses the earth. All are Christ appearing in glory and all, therefore, encompass the Second Coming.

Davedan,
what leads you to believe that we are in the seventh seal right now?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Sixth: Thanks for clarifying your take on this. Does AOA come before, simultanoeusly, or after the building of NJ?

[sixth seal]

Sixth: Thanks for clarifying your take on this. Does AOA come before, simultanoeusly, or after the building of NJ?

I think that AOA will come before the building of New Jerusalem. I think that the plans and the authority to do so will come about during AOA. Just my opinion though.

[davedan]

D&C 77 says each seal = 1000. That means 6th seal goes from 1000-2000 ad. JS asked when the events of Rev 6 happen and is told at the opening of the 6th seal. Rev 6 and the failure of Sun Moon Stars = Apostacy. Rev 7 is the second part of the 6th Seal which describes the Restoration (I saw another angel fly...)

Now John does say that those who are "sealed" in their foreheads have "come out the tribulation.". But this phrase is speaking of the future and is not part of the chronology. The Tribulation definately = 7 Trumpets which is In beginning of 7th Seal. 144000 will begin to be "sealed" in later end of the 6th seal but they will be purified during the beginning of the 7th seal.

The 144000 is not really some mystical thing. It just means that the gospel, covenant, priesthood, and temple is available to all kingdom, nations, tongues, tribes, and people in contrast to the OT when these blessings were only availinke to 1 kingdom, nation, tongue and people.

After the AOD, "those that remain" will go to Zion for AOA. Then we will go throughout all Nortband Spith America and bring in survivors to Zion before the final burning. Those who are sent may be transfigured and go forth like the 3Nephites where prisons could not hold them, and the were cast into firey fernacrs and into dens of wild beasts and came forth without harm.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Sixth seal; My beleif also that AOA comes shortly before NJ maybe even concurent to. Why? AOA will be the place where Jesus becomes Lord of Lords and Kneg of Kings. Many there will then come to the emerging NJ where Jesus will sit upon His throne.

IF you've been following my posts, you also know that I beleive in a "call out" where Jesus Himself will guide us in person. At least it says so in the D+C. We will be taught great truths and be cleansed from sin. IMO, many of the people who pass the "tests" in the wilderness will come to AOA. That's at least what I've concluded up to this point.

[davedan]

There may be no "call out" or official warning before the AOD (nuclear holocaust and invasion). Many people may leave the church because of this. AOA may occur only after the AOD after Missouri has been cleared out by war.

I would like a "call out" Pre-AOD, but I okay if there isn't one until post-AOD.

[freedomforall]

To play a devils' advocate; What real difference is it if we are in the 6th or 7th seal? We agree apparently on the sequence of events.

Some folks are stuck on presumed timelines of terms and events. Jubilees, weeks, years and others. For me, I'm content knowing Christ will come when He comes. It's up to me to live and act accordingly so I can, hopefully, be caught up to meet Him, even from my grave. We have more pressing issues than worrying about what day He's coming. Were looking way beyond the mark if in the meantime we lose our liberties.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Freedom Fighter: Essentially I agree with your counsel. It is "fun" and "intellectually challenging" to me to sort out last days sequence of events.

[sixth seal]

There may be no "call out" or official warning before the AOD (nuclear holocaust and invasion). Many people may leave the church because of this. AOA may occur only after the AOD after Missouri has been cleared out by war.

I would like a "call out" Pre-AOD, but I okay if there isn't one until post-AOD.

davedan,
I agree that there probably won't be a "call out" before many great calamities, trials, and disasters occur. I think that we as saints are meant to go through trials and tribulations as a test and a refining/purification process. Plus, Jackson County Missouri does have to be physically wiped clean of its current inhabitants in order to host AOA and build New Jerusalem. I believe that after this takes place then a "call out" can occur where at least a large body of the saints will be gathered together and lead to this new place of safety.

I might disagree with you on the whole 6th seal/ 7th seal thing, but we can agree on other things.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Sixth seal. It seems to me that God has provide a number of precedents in His calling out a righteous remnant before destruction occur. Why would He change now being He is a nonchanging God?

[sixth seal]

Sixth seal. It seems to me that God has provide a number of precedents in His calling out a righteous remnant before destruction occur. Why would He change now being He is a nonchanging God?

Simply because God may, at times and according to different situations, deal with things differently does not make Him a "changing" God. And I don't know for sure if He will or won't call people out before the destruction. I only said that I think such and such will happen a certain way. Just an opinion nothing more.

[freedomforall]

Sixth seal. It seems to me that God has provide a number of precedents in His calling out a righteous remnant before destruction occur. Why would He change now being He is a nonchanging God?

Simply because God may, at times and according to different situations, deal with things differently does not make Him a "changing" God. And I don't know for sure if He will or won't call people out before the destruction. I only said that I think such and such will happen a certain way. Just an opinion nothing more.

I quoted a scripture on a different thread about a call out, or gathering. The Elect will be gathered to go to the New Jerusalem for safety prior to a lot of calamities striking that will wipeout the wicked. I don't understand all the fuss over any other type of so called "call out." It's not necessarily a call out for the Elders to step forward and save the Constitution as we've heard about. This may or may not be an event, but a process.

[HeirofNumenor]

everything I have seen lists the persecutions and cleansings....then New Jerusalem, with AOA somewhere BEFORE the start of cleansings (always said in a way that the church members will not know it happened, as if communication is easily available - cleansing is NOT a perquisite for AOA - only NJ).

Not saying anyone here is wrong - this is just how I have always seen it reported...

[Samuel the Lamanite]

No matter when it occurs, lets help each other be among the wise virgins. Fair enough?

[freedomforall]

Abomination of Desolation

D&C 88:85
That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.

Joseph Smith—Matthew.
9 For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand when the earth is ripe; and all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth; This may be part of but not in whole, the abomination of desolation.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, then you shall stand in the holy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the mountains;
14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
16 And wo unto them that are with child, and unto them that give suck in those days;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
18 For then, in those days, shall be great tribulation on the Jews, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.
21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the elect’s sake; and you also shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.

32 And again shall the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

When read carefully one can see the chronology of events given here.

The Abomination of Desolation is to take place in Jerusalem at some later date.

[HeirofNumenor]

fair enough. O:-) :YMPRAY:

[Samuel the Lamanite]

We're on. Anyone else care to join the Support Club?"

[GregoryR]

Davedan wrote: D&C 77 says each seal = 1000. That means 6th seal goes from 1000-2000 ad.

Herein lies the error. Since the fifth seal did not start at the year 0, the sixth seal did not start at the year 1000. Even biblical records are lacking information. They went backwards from Christ to establish time frames of those who were before Christ and ahead from Adam to establish time frames for those who came after Adam. The problem lies some where in the middle where they have no clue how many years went by. When you don't have evidence you just can't make it up.

Take heart the truth is: Jesus came in the meridian of time. (in the fourth seal which is in the middle of the seven seals).Next, the events of the sixth seal are not complete. (D&C 77: the events of each seal belong to that seal or at least begin in that seal) and last but not least this is why the average clock watchers will think that Christ delays his coming (D&C 45) when we have a major world -wide earthquake (Rev, 6) mistaking it for the bigger world-wide earthquake that happens when the Lord actually comes. (Rev 11 & 16)

[HeirofNumenor]

Take heart the truth is: Jesus came in the meridian of time.(in the fourth seal which is in the middle of the seven seals).

OR you can take the concept that meridian not only means middle/center, but can also be central to/pivotal/climactic/most important point - (which without a doubt the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the singular most important point in all of creation/history) which does NOT have to be exact dead center...whether 7,000 years, or adding a eighth 1,000 years for Satan to be loosed a little season = 8,000 (Jesus being born AD 1)...

What is most important is that He came, He suffered, He was resurrected, He triumphed.


It matter not whether we are in the sixth or seventh seal...what matters is that we heed the signs, and have fully repented/have our lamps of testimony full of spiritual oil/faith, etc.

I'm a killjoy. I know. Sorry. Well, not really :p

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Herio: I agree with you. From an intellectual standpoint its fun to try to figure out which seal BUT it matters most if we are ready.

[freedomforall]

Davedan wrote: D&C 77 says each seal = 1000. That means 6th seal goes from 1000-2000 ad.

Herein lies the error. Since the fifth seal did not start at the year 0, the sixth seal did not start at the year 1000. Even biblical records are lacking information. They went backwards from Christ to establish time frames of those who were before Christ and ahead from Adam to establish time frames for those who came after Adam. The problem lies some where in the middle where they have no clue how many years went by. When you don't have evidence you just can't make it up.

Take heart the truth is: Jesus came in the meridian of time. (in the fourth seal which is in the middle of the seven seals).Next, the events of the sixth seal are not complete. (D&C 77: the events of each seal belong to that seal or at least begin in that seal) and last but not least this is why the average clock watchers will think that Christ delays his coming (D&C 45) when we have a major world -wide earthquake (Rev, 6) mistaking it for the bigger world-wide earthquake that happens when the Lord actually comes. (Rev 11 & 16)

I think you're on to something here. You've given much thought into this.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Gregory: Please share more of your thoughts/findings. You have an ability for great insights.

[zackd3]

The words contained in 2 Thessilonians are pretty clear. They always apply to who the Lord is speaking to in ALL scripture...His Covenant People. God does not directly address the nations of peoples ( Non believers ) in the scriptures. He is always addressing & refering to His Covenant People and allowing THEM to desimminate His word to the world.

What happens to Israel, will happen to the world if it doesn't repent like Israel eventually does. So the Man of Sin being refered to in those scriptures and others, is a man of God's "Covenant" People. Who ELSE builds Temples to the true God ? And according to McConkie, who else but an Endowed member can become a Son of Perdition ?

Couple this chapter of Thessilonians with D&C 85, 103 & 112 and see if COLLECTIVELY they begin to make sense.

Truth is SHOCKING but NECESSARY, in order to avoid being fooled by the "DELUSION" or "LIE" that God sends upon His OWN PEOPLE , in order that they "Would believe a "LIE" ( FALSE PROPHET ).

This is done in order to SEPERATE those who believe the "TRUTH" ( The one whom God sends..D&C 85 )from those who believe the delusional "LIE" ( The Man of Sin that must be REPLACED as per section 85 ) that God sends them in the form of the "Man of Sin"....A Prophet, who according to the Lord in D&C 85, HAD been chosen ( Already in PLACE ) but God finds it then necessary to REJECT & DESTROY that Prophet by the 'One Mighty & Strong", whom God SENDS for that purpose...As per the type of Samuel The Lamanite and many other typological references to this SAME situation, that MUST BE RESOLVED before Zion can be built.

These are GOD'S words in those scriptures...not mine. Do you BELIEVE them ?

Those words of warning from God are to PREPARE God's RIGHTEOUS people for the SHOCKING TRUTH that MUST be addressed BEFORE the Lord's Day of Judgement begins.

Please give this serious consideration before it's too late and you make a decision based on MAN'S WORD as opposed to GOD'S. Read that final portion of sec.112 of the D&C. What do you think the IMPLICATIONS of that ARE ? God is telling us POINT BLANK what they are, if we fail to heed the TRUTH as contained in the scriptures...HIS WORD. And NOT the words of those in "High Places" who have DISTORTED God's Words...The "DUMB WATCH DOGS THAT DON'T BARK"... Leaders and "Spare Baggage" ( Goats ) that must be seperated from God's TRUE Sheep, before Zion can exisit.

If you think that the Church, from TOP TO BOTTOM, has NOT been assemillated into this world, then you don't know God & His Scriptures well enough. STUDY ! Don't just READ the instructions that appeal to your sense of "WELL BEING". ALL OF THEM APPLY TO US.

[GregoryR]

There are some important insights to be gained from studying the biblical references to the last 42 months prior to the Lord coming.

1. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev. 11:3
This is the time that Jerusalem will be under seige

2. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a
time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:14
This is the flight of the saints into the wilderness or to a safe place, perhaps It will be Zion and will be terrible to the the serpent and his followers similar to what is happening on the other continent at Jerusalem.

3. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months
Rev 13:5
This is the rule of the Dragon, serpent, the devil, etc.. over the nations of the earth. Again the same time frame as the AOD.

4.6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel 12: 6-12
This is also the same time (1260 days). The AOD is set up, the daily sacrifice is taken away, the devil has power to scatter the holy people and they will have to band together or flee as it were. Notice that when Daniel makes a deeper inquiry as to how these things will end the Lord says that the time shall be an extra 30 days from the time the AOD is set up (1,290 days) and then blessed is he that waits an additional 45 days, 1,335 days) The final outcome is described by Isaiah (chpter 28: 14-18) when he says that the scornful men who rule jerusalem will have their covenant that they made with hell dis-annulled and they will have the great hail bash open their hiding place and be overcome by the scourge that they thought to avoid.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Gregory: I too have noticed how 42 months (3 1/2 years) plays such a big part in the final day's events. Let's for the sake of argument only that 2015 is the day when the Millenium starts. That would bring us back to 2011. Are we seeing more and more of the last days signs so that perhaps the 42 minths has started. Your thought?