Joseph Smith/Civil War

[Aaronjs0005]

How can you guys be sure this means civil war? It sounds more like a war of words between 2 parties and then world war breaks out and we are obviously the main target.

[Aaronjs0005]

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

Definitely a second civil war in the future.

It sounds like a war of words. How would one party get an army when the other is much more dominant? I don't see this. thats neighbor to neighbor town to stuff. Cival War was south against North, not political parties in every town.

[Aaronjs0005]

Here's one place
http://www.dailypaul.com/154729/prophec ... -fulfilled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The prophecy was recorded by Mosiah Hancock in 1844 and is documented in "The Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock" .In this prophecy, Joseph Smith predicted the advent of a third major political party in the United States as well as a physical invasion of the U.S. by foreign powers.

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party.

The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let us divide up the lands of the United States", then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up -- when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God". Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
I got this last one from http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/ ... smith.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How could Joseph have predicted a 3rd major party when we only have a two party system? You have to get 270 electoral votes to win in this country, which means a major 3rd party would assure the election goes to the House every time.

[paulrobots]

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

Definitely a second civil war in the future.

It sounds like a war of words. How would one party get an army when the other is much more dominant? I don't see this. thats neighbor to neighbor town to stuff. Cival War was south against North, not political parties in every town.

The battle lines are already drawn, the armies are gearing up by the hour.

On one side you have blm, ows, bernouts, welfare fsa, liberal wackos, social justice warriors, outright communists, and people who thrive on mayhem and use it as an excuse to loot.

On the other side are patriot movement types, 2a supporters, militias, rightwing anti government types, preppers, defenders of religious freedom, defenders of marriage, rednecks, constitutionalists, and good ol' boys (and ladies). obama referred to them as bitter clinger's.

You might not be a gun guy, but if you were and were watching gun sales over the past eight years, you would know that gun sales have been astronomical. Not just guns, ammunition, optics and more recently, body armor and night vision. People on gun forums talk daily about the time they will need to use it.

What does it take to make this cold war go hot? Economic collapse. Welfare unsupported. Empty grocery stores. The veneer of civilization is three meals thick.

Or, the theft of an election, riots leading to martial law, democrats not giving up power, who knows.

JS, when referring to this period, sometimes used the word revolution, other times he said civil war. The difference is which side you are on. For the liberal socialists, it will be their revolution, for the defenders of the constitution it will be civil war. He also described it as one big mob.

BY quotes JS.

"The whole government is gone; it is as weak as water. I heard Joseph Smith say nearly thirty years ago, “They shall have mobbings to their hearts’ content, if they do not redress the wrongs of the Latter-day Saints.” Mobs will not decrease but will increase until the whole government becomes a mob, and eventually it will be State against State, city against city, neighborhood against neighborhood… (Brigham Young, Deseret News, Vol. 9, p. 2, May 1, 1861.

[paulrobots]

Here's one place
http://www.dailypaul.com/154729/prophec ... -fulfilled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The prophecy was recorded by Mosiah Hancock in 1844 and is documented in "The Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock" .In this prophecy, Joseph Smith predicted the advent of a third major political party in the United States as well as a physical invasion of the U.S. by foreign powers.

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party.

The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let us divide up the lands of the United States", then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up -- when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God". Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
I got this last one from http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/ ... smith.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How could Joseph have predicted a 3rd major party when we only have a two party system? You have to get 270 electoral votes to win in this country, which means a major 3rd party would assure the election goes to the House every time.

From wikipedia.

The American Independent Party (AIP) is a far right political party of the United States that was established in 1967 by Bill Shearer and his wife, Eileen Knowland Shearer, a cousin of the late Republican U. S. Senator William F. Knowland of California.

JS never said it would be a major party. The prophecy was fulfilled in 1967.

[Robin Hood]

To me, this "prophecy" is not speaking specifically of a second civil war, but rather a foreign war. It seems to suggest that America will come under attack by a powerful enemy.
The fact that the American Independent Party is mentioned doesn't in my view mean it is connected with these events. Rather, it is a sign that when this party comes into existence or prominence as a result of confrontation between the two main parties, we can expect the other events to unfold.

[Rensai]

To me, this "prophecy" is not speaking specifically of a second civil war, but rather a foreign war. It seems to suggest that America will come under attack by a powerful enemy.
The fact that the American Independent Party is mentioned doesn't in my view mean it is connected with these events. Rather, it is a sign that when this party comes into existence or prominence as a result of confrontation between the two main parties, we can expect the other events to unfold.

Other statements from Joseph make it clear he foresaw some kind of second civil war, but you may be correct as well. What did the kingmen and other defectors among the nephites do? They sought over and over to ally with the Lamanites to affect change that they couldn't achieve on their own. It could be a similar situation where we have those who want to overthrow the US allying with some foreign power. The tyrannical democrats are in many ways similar to the kingmen and like the kingmen, they've just be thoroughly rejected by the nation overall. I wonder if they'll follow the kingmen into treason....

[gungadin500]

For a potentially more reliable source about a civil war, there is a section in the Journal of Discourses (which I understand to be the rough equivalent of the general conference edition of the Ensign) where a church leader (a Pratt or maybe Heber C Kimball) describes the next civil war in some detail. I think it counts as an "official" church record. I will try to find it.

[gungadin500]

For a potentially more reliable source about a civil war, there is a section in the Journal of Discourses (which I understand to be the rough equivalent of the general conference edition of the Ensign) where a church leader (a Pratt or maybe Heber C Kimball) describes the next civil war in some detail. I think it counts as an "official" church record. I will try to find it.

What then will be the condition of the people when the great and dreadful war will come? It will be very different from the war between the North and South. It will be neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed. Manufacturing will almost cease, great cities will be left desolate. The time will come when the great city of New York will be left without inhabitants..."

Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 20:150

[Aaronjs0005]

Here's one place
http://www.dailypaul.com/154729/prophec ... -fulfilled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The prophecy was recorded by Mosiah Hancock in 1844 and is documented in "The Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock" .In this prophecy, Joseph Smith predicted the advent of a third major political party in the United States as well as a physical invasion of the U.S. by foreign powers.

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party.

The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let us divide up the lands of the United States", then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up -- when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God". Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
I got this last one from http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/ ... smith.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How could Joseph have predicted a 3rd major party when we only have a two party system? You have to get 270 electoral votes to win in this country, which means a major 3rd party would assure the election goes to the House every time.

From wikipedia.

The American Independent Party (AIP) is a far right political party of the United States that was established in 1967 by Bill Shearer and his wife, Eileen Knowland Shearer, a cousin of the late Republican U. S. Senator William F. Knowland of California.

JS never said it would be a major party. The prophecy was fulfilled in 1967.

From what I read it sure did seem indicate it was a major party and would rise while the other two are fighting, but I have doubts that prophecy was true as it was written decades later.

[Aaronjs0005]

To me, this "prophecy" is not speaking specifically of a second civil war, but rather a foreign war. It seems to suggest that America will come under attack by a powerful enemy.
The fact that the American Independent Party is mentioned doesn't in my view mean it is connected with these events. Rather, it is a sign that when this party comes into existence or prominence as a result of confrontation between the two main parties, we can expect the other events to unfold.

How can you trust it? It was written decades later?

[Aaronjs0005]

For a potentially more reliable source about a civil war, there is a section in the Journal of Discourses (which I understand to be the rough equivalent of the general conference edition of the Ensign) where a church leader (a Pratt or maybe Heber C Kimball) describes the next civil war in some detail. I think it counts as an "official" church record. I will try to find it.

What then will be the condition of the people when the great and dreadful war will come? It will be very different from the war between the North and South. It will be neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed. Manufacturing will almost cease, great cities will be left desolate. The time will come when the great city of New York will be left without inhabitants..."

Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 20:150

I would think this is after we are hit by nukes and chaos reigns? I cannot forsee anything else sparking everyman for his own, liberal against conservative type of fight. This isn't the south and the north with major resources. This is far more chaotic than that.

[brianj]

I would think this is after we are hit by nukes and chaos reigns? I cannot forsee anything else sparking everyman for his own, liberal against conservative type of fight. This isn't the south and the north with major resources. This is far more chaotic than that.

Nukes are totally unnecessary. Much of the food consumed in the US is imported from overseas. Most of the population lives far from food production sites. If economic troubles stop the importation and transportation of food, most people will be getting violent within a couple of days because they can't be bothered to keep a decent pantry of food at home.

I have relatives in Florida, living 1/3 of a mile from the water or even right on the water. When my closest relatives experienced their first direct hit from a hurricane they bought plenty of food and water, but after that first hurricane they won't bother. They say the government was there so quickly with food and water that they don't need to worry about having their own. And that's a common attitude where they live. One of those families goes to the grocery store every single day! I grew up in southern California and experienced many quakes. Most people accept that a really bad earthquake is coming and they need to be prepared, but they don't bother to do anything. When an economic or natural disaster cuts off their food they will start going hungry, then they will turn on their neighbors. Eventually people will turn on their own family members.

[Aaronjs0005]

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

Definitely a second civil war in the future.

It sounds like a war of words. How would one party get an army when the other is much more dominant? I don't see this. thats neighbor to neighbor town to stuff. Cival War was south against North, not political parties in every town.

The battle lines are already drawn, the armies are gearing up by the hour.

On one side you have blm, ows, bernouts, welfare fsa, liberal wackos, social justice warriors, outright communists, and people who thrive on mayhem and use it as an excuse to loot.

On the other side are patriot movement types, 2a supporters, militias, rightwing anti government types, preppers, defenders of religious freedom, defenders of marriage, rednecks, constitutionalists, and good ol' boys (and ladies). obama referred to them as bitter clinger's.

You might not be a gun guy, but if you were and were watching gun sales over the past eight years, you would know that gun sales have been astronomical. Not just guns, ammunition, optics and more recently, body armor and night vision. People on gun forums talk daily about the time they will need to use it.

What does it take to make this cold war go hot? Economic collapse. Welfare unsupported. Empty grocery stores. The veneer of civilization is three meals thick.

Or, the theft of an election, riots leading to martial law, democrats not giving up power, who knows.

JS, when referring to this period, sometimes used the word revolution, other times he said civil war. The difference is which side you are on. For the liberal socialists, it will be their revolution, for the defenders of the constitution it will be civil war. He also described it as one big mob.

BY quotes JS.

"The whole government is gone; it is as weak as water. I heard Joseph Smith say nearly thirty years ago, “They shall have mobbings to their hearts’ content, if they do not redress the wrongs of the Latter-day Saints.” Mobs will not decrease but will increase until the whole government becomes a mob, and eventually it will be State against State, city against city, neighborhood against neighborhood… (Brigham Young, Deseret News, Vol. 9, p. 2, May 1, 1861.

I don't see a civil war without getting nuked first. I don't see a debt collapse forcing austerity measures as enough to cause that level of chaos. None of this has happened in other nations that were more liberal and had debt collapses, such as Greece. Obviously, we have a racial component and other factors, but I do not see neighbor against neighbor on that level-city against city, state against state. That cannot happen by an economic collapse. They would just adjust and get through, including federal gov. Nukes would have to destroy much of this country. If these are true and not just opinion of Pratt, Young and others, who may have been expounding too far on true prophecies uttered by Joseph, then the general understanding of what Joseph said when he said "hanging by a Thread" has been greatly misinterpreted. He literally meant utter destruction and somehow the Mormons step in and save. It says left without a federal government by Brigham, I guess that does not mean Constitution itself is is without one thread left, if a power steps in.

[Aaronjs0005]

I would think this is after we are hit by nukes and chaos reigns? I cannot forsee anything else sparking everyman for his own, liberal against conservative type of fight. This isn't the south and the north with major resources. This is far more chaotic than that.

Nukes are totally unnecessary. Much of the food consumed in the US is imported from overseas. Most of the population lives far from food production sites. If economic troubles stop the importation and transportation of food, most people will be getting violent within a couple of days because they can't be bothered to keep a decent pantry of food at home.

I have relatives in Florida, living 1/3 of a mile from the water or even right on the water. When my closest relatives experienced their first direct hit from a hurricane they bought plenty of food and water, but after that first hurricane they won't bother. They say the government was there so quickly with food and water that they don't need to worry about having their own. And that's a common attitude where they live. One of those families goes to the grocery store every single day! I grew up in southern California and experienced many quakes. Most people accept that a really bad earthquake is coming and they need to be prepared, but they don't bother to do anything. When an economic or natural disaster cuts off their food they will start going hungry, then they will turn on their neighbors. Eventually people will turn on their own family members.

I honestly don't see this being able to cause the level of warring described in some of the statements we've read. The free market, demand, the government, etc, would see it though. We send a lot of food overseas as well. I'm no expert and I could be wrong, but I honestly do not see what you are saying as being to cause warring in that manner. How would economic troubles cause that kind trouble. What kind of economic problems are you talking about? You don't believe no adjustments would take place? Earthquakes, tornadoes, things happen all the time. We've had a Great Depression. I'm just not seeing what your seeing as being able to cause wars from city to city, state to state, neighbor to neighbor.

[Aaronjs0005]

To me, this "prophecy" is not speaking specifically of a second civil war, but rather a foreign war. It seems to suggest that America will come under attack by a powerful enemy.
The fact that the American Independent Party is mentioned doesn't in my view mean it is connected with these events. Rather, it is a sign that when this party comes into existence or prominence as a result of confrontation between the two main parties, we can expect the other events to unfold.

Other statements from Joseph make it clear he foresaw some kind of second civil war, but you may be correct as well. What did the kingmen and other defectors among the nephites do? They sought over and over to ally with the Lamanites to affect change that they couldn't achieve on their own. It could be a similar situation where we have those who want to overthrow the US allying with some foreign power. The tyrannical democrats are in many ways similar to the kingmen and like the kingmen, they've just be thoroughly rejected by the nation overall. I wonder if they'll follow the kingmen into treason....

How have the Democrats been thoroughly rejected by the nation? We must had a liberal for 8 yrs and Trump lost the popular vote and barely won in the swing states everyone is pointing to most, like Michigan, Wisconsin. He is the first candidate in history to the majority in both the general and the primaries and he'll probably be thrown out, bar an act of God which is very possible since it appears to me God raised Trump up-the whole thing defied all odds. Just not in an endorsement kind of way, but in this is a setup designed to bring about judgement and cleansing or at least hasten it and set the stage.

[Aaronjs0005]

Some say this prophecy was fulfilled in the 60's and the 'war' between the two parties was the war over civil liberties and equality. The IAP was formed after that time, however, the prophecy tells me the formation of the 3rd party will be the way the war ends. What's more, it suggests to me the IAP will become a major player if it is to have enough power to prevent war from breaking out again. This war is at most one or two election cycles away.

If you look at the rest of the quote, about WWIII, the conditions are nearly or already in place for the near demise of the US.

And remember this part of the scripture:

5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

The remnant (American Indians) have yet to vex the Gentiles (those whose ancestry came from outside of the Americas) with a "sore vexation". Neither has the "consumption decreed" made a "FULL end of ALL nations". Not all of this scripture has been fulfilled.

And, did the slaves rise up against their masters in the 1800s? The war was begun by free people, wasn't it, though some slaves fought? Are we not slaves? Are there not signs of some of us rising up against the tyranny of the masters?

I'm sure the Lamanites will vex us more, but its clear they are vexing us a great deal, with sucking money out of the systems, bothering Americans, often on an unsound basis, Turing the country more liberal with voting power ( a concern) and in many other ways. They were center of the campaign, so its clear this prophecy is being fulfilled.

[Aaronjs0005]

My ponderings on this quote, before having read this thread, is that Brother Joseph was referring to the end of the nation existing as the "United States". We will have foreign invading armies enter, as typified by the Nephites in the BoM. I've also wondered if the "Independent American Party" is more equivalent to the Tea Party in structure and purpose regarding this quote. And a thought did occur while reading this thread.

You have to read prophecy carefully. It does not say the two parties will go to war with each other it just says that the two parties will go to war. A reasonable interpretation is that both parties are warmongers, there is no longer a "peace" party.

Perhaps it seems both Republicans and Democrats will turn on the Tea Party (as it's gaining ground with each election). Either way, I know I will see faction violence in one form or another in this country in my lifetime. :-ss

Which is interesting, bc the for the first time in a long Dems all over the country are mad at Russia. :))

[Aaronjs0005]

This 'prophecy' has been dubbed the 'White Horse Prophecy " and has been discredited by the Church. There have been other apostles and prophets who have mentioned civil strife and chaos in the latter days that makes the Civil War look like a picnic. No need to use dubious 'prophecies'. If you would like quotes I can post them latter. They're on my home computer.
OMD

The Mosiah Hancock prophecy is the White Horse prophecy? I thought they were separate?

[Aaronjs0005]

Since the prophets saw state against state, city against city, neighbor against neighbor, father against son, do we call it a civil war as we had in the 1860s or is it closer to an attempted revolution or anarchy?

The ‘Civil War’ had two sides, two armies, two governments. The prophecies I have read sounds more like anarchy where if you don’t want to shed blood to protect yourself and your family you have to flee to Zion.

OMD

War- including the War of Invasion (attacked by Europe and Russia on the East coast, and China on the west coast)- precedes anarchy IIRC, but is a sure road to it.

I honestly could not see most Democracies wanting to align with Russia and destroy the last best hope of their Democracy and freedom-the U.S. Even if more on a subconscious level our presence deters a lot of chaos that would reign. Europe and others (particularly Israel) would not look as they do today. My bet would be China, Russia and Mexico would hop in capture some land. Islam is not really as big as a threat in this sense unless we someday see a United Arab States that covers all Persian, Arab, Egyptian, Pakistani, territory armed with nukes. They could align with Russia China in an invasion and add manpower, but I'm not sure. It seem Islam's (being that the more Muslims means the more extremist, not bc all are bad ppl) threat is more immigration such as in Europe, blowing people and worst getting a nuke. I could see them helping to bring Europe down far more than it is now. They like on 9/11 could hit us with a Russian or North Korea nuke, but in terms of world war and us getting nuked my thought is Russia is the greatest we face, whom according to Eziekal will align with Iran and others to destroy Israel.

[Aaronjs0005]

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

"when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin." Is this Mormons?

[Aaronjs0005]

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

Definitely a second civil war in the future.

Agree. Definitely 2nd.

Even if there is only nuclear war would bring it. No Great Depression, no famine, nothing we haven't already seen will bring it. I'm sure there would more upheaval in an economic catastrophe like the Great Depression bc of how worse people are, but not enough for civil war. A nuclear holocaust would bring that.

[brianj]

I honestly don't see this being able to cause the level of warring described in some of the statements we've read. The free market, demand, the government, etc, would see it though. We send a lot of food overseas as well. I'm no expert and I could be wrong, but I honestly do not see what you are saying as being to cause warring in that manner. How would economic troubles cause that kind trouble. What kind of economic problems are you talking about? You don't believe no adjustments would take place? Earthquakes, tornadoes, things happen all the time. We've had a Great Depression. I'm just not seeing what your seeing as being able to cause wars from city to city, state to state, neighbor to neighbor.

I don't believe that we had anything near the level of societal stress that we do right now. It seems that at least some people are looking for an excuse or opportunity to riot or worse. Yes, the US and other nations have seen hyperinflation in the past, but at those times most people lived close enough to sources of food that they could go barter for food. There wasn't enough for a customary meal and the people were hungry, but few starved to death.

A major earthquake on the San Andreas fault in the Los Angeles area or the Bay Area is likely to damage or destroy bridges. Because of modern federal rules, every bridge on the interstate highways would have to be closed until they are inspected, and repaired if necessary. Overwhelmed law enforcement would not be in a position to deal with protests turning into riots, and stopping food deliveries for two or three days would further incite violence.

And there is something else I am seeing that you may not be considering. You are comparing prophesied events to past events in modern history. You are asking how it could happen; I am asking how it is going to happen.

[Spaced_Out]

The prophecy also relates to it starting in Chicago, there are many now pointing to a US civil war. 45% of american get some form of welfare an economic collapse and all that is gone - it is far worse than any other time in the history of the world.
Two article in the news today Waring about potential US civil war and Chicago meltdown.

Brandon Smith Warns The System Is Crashing: "Prepare For Bank Confiscations, Shortages, Insurgency"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-2 ... insurgency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Surging Chicago Murder Rates Single-Handedly Driving Up Overall National Average
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-2 ... al-average" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rensai]

To me, this "prophecy" is not speaking specifically of a second civil war, but rather a foreign war. It seems to suggest that America will come under attack by a powerful enemy.
The fact that the American Independent Party is mentioned doesn't in my view mean it is connected with these events. Rather, it is a sign that when this party comes into existence or prominence as a result of confrontation between the two main parties, we can expect the other events to unfold.

Other statements from Joseph make it clear he foresaw some kind of second civil war, but you may be correct as well. What did the kingmen and other defectors among the nephites do? They sought over and over to ally with the Lamanites to affect change that they couldn't achieve on their own. It could be a similar situation where we have those who want to overthrow the US allying with some foreign power. The tyrannical democrats are in many ways similar to the kingmen and like the kingmen, they've just be thoroughly rejected by the nation overall. I wonder if they'll follow the kingmen into treason....

How have the Democrats been thoroughly rejected by the nation? We must had a liberal for 8 yrs and Trump lost the popular vote and barely won in the swing states everyone is pointing to most, like Michigan, Wisconsin. He is the first candidate in history to the majority in both the general and the primaries and he'll probably be thrown out, bar an act of God which is very possible since it appears to me God raised Trump up-the whole thing defied all odds. Just not in an endorsement kind of way, but in this is a setup designed to bring about judgement and cleansing or at least hasten it and set the stage.

Yes, we had 8 years of Obama and its been a disaster. As a result, democrats lost big in most state positions as well as the house and senate and presidency.

Democrats Breaking Records: Control Fewest State Legislatures in History
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/jasonhopki ... y-n2244010

We had heard iterations of Democratic losses on the congressional level, but never such a large number of losses for Democrats in legislatures across the country.

Turns out, Roberts is correct.

Our analysis shows Democrats have lost 910 seats since Obama took office. (You can see the changes in every state here.)

We took a state-by-state look of lost seats from the best source available, the National Conference of State Legislatures. Using the group’s data, we compared the number of Democratic seats in early 2009, when Obama took office, to the number of seats after the 2014 midterms.

The bottom line: Republicans now control about 56 percent of the country’s 7,383 state legislative seats, up 12 percentage points since 2009.

Thirty-five states posted double-digit seat losses for the Democrats in state legislatures, including more than 50 seats each in Arkansas, New Hampshire and West Virginia.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... latures-o/

Seems like a pretty big rejection to me. Look at the desperate and despicable actions they've already taken. If the country continues rejecting them then who knows, maybe they could turn to a foreign power that's all I was saying. Its just one possible theory to show that the war could involve foreign powers as well as a civil war.