Accounts of the prophecy of Pres. George A Smith

[francisco.colaco]

Davedan,

You have mentioned that Brother Horne livres, as in the present. Is that a typo or were the news of his death clearly exaggerated? ;)

What have we got in Brother Horne's vision? We do not seem to have a second witness or written and dated record coming forth, albeit it probably exists. We do have good references of Brother Horne, which the LaVerkin redactor clearly misses.

With the red heifer found, and will have to be sacrificed at the end of 2016 or at most if 2017, at the fourth year of it's life, the end of the proto-communist government of the Obamesque revolution seems to be well in date at the end of 2016. We have to let the holiday attack fall, as it is in the LaVerkin account, but I still think it will be done at or around Christmas.

[OCDMOM]

Should we be worried that Chinese subs were seen near Alaska, and a Russian spy ship was seen near Kings bay Georgia? What should one store in case of a Nuclear attack if one should ever occur?

[Matchmaker]

Everything that I have ever read has indicated that a future missile or biological attack will come without warning and will take us (the little guy) by surprise. I think Skousen said there would probably be an EMP strike first, in which case you will be stuck wherever you are in the dark and without electricity or running water. In some places electricity might not be restored for months.

If I thought something major was coming this fall, these are some of the temporal things I would do.

The minimum I would try to do:

I would not plan a vacation away from home.
If I lived on the coasts near the big cities, or near a military base or target, I would make every effort I could to relocate.
I would immediately make sure I had at least 1 month supply of drinking water for everyone in my family.
I would stock up on candles and matches (probably no electricity available).
I would make sure I had a minimum of 1 month's supply of food, toilet paper, and trash bags in my house to keep waste in. Skousen said in a nuclear attack one must stay underground at least 2 weeks.
Make sure you have warm clothes and bedding because the heat probably will be off.
If they are not fried in the EMP, have extra batteries on hand for your radio and flashlights.
Put together a basic first aid kit and have some books and games to entertain your family.

If you plan on staying put, and you have a basement, fix up an area down there and spend a practice night actually sleeping down there in the dark with just a flashlight. Remember you won't be able to drive to Grandma's with your supplies once the EMP strike comes because your car will probably not work.

[dlbww]

.

[Ted]

This thread is too long and I didn't read but would someone post a summary of which Pres. George A. Smith prophecies are being referenced here and which are known and well documented to be false? Here are a few references to get folks started on ones that are known to be false:

http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2012/10/2 ... and-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/B ... /4942/4592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once the false ones have been identified then it might be appropriate to speculate on what's left.

[Sandinista]

Really like the second article. Even though it was 40 years ago it really rings true!

[lundbaek]

This my first intrusion into this topic, well over a year after the last post. But a few days ago I read what I'll call the Fuller Report about President George Albert Smith's vision. And this part of Fuller's report troubles me enuf to resurrect this topic. For about 9 years now I have believed that President Heber J. Grant was a strong proponent of the US Constitution. His statements so indicating are included in Chris Bentley's A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND, and also in Newquist's PROPHETS, PRINCIPLES AND NATIONAL SURVIVAL. And also the reasons that he reportedly gave for calling J. Reuben Clark to the First Presidency. But then, Fuller states"

"One of the things G. A. Smith was particularly harsh about the day before he left was how Heber J. Grant seemed to worship the world, and all of the bankers, politicians, and anyone who was held in high regard in Babylon. Pres. Smith taught me about the conspiracy of the international bankers who were backing communism, socialism, and fascism, who he stated were angels of Satan. Yet Heber J. Grant repeatedly gushed praises in conference for them. President G. A. Smith here stated that there had been no other president of the church who has darkened the minds of the Saints so much as HJG did. He told me that when a man calling himself a prophet starts denigrating and setting at naught the revealed teachings of former prophets, that he declared himself an enemy of God, and the people should put that man out of his place, and make the Quorum of 12 do their job and put in a man under the inspiration of Heaven who will lead the people in the narrow paths of righteousness, not in the wide paths of Babylon. I asked him if he was not doing just what he was telling me was improper, and he told me that HJG could not fit that mold because he was just a placeholder who had set aside many revealed principles of the restored gospel. Even so, he counseled me to stay close to the gospel and the church and do the best I could until the setting in order occurs. He then explained to me that the gospel and the church are two different entities and that I would do well in my life to come to know and understand why they are separate. GAS was almost white while he was saying these things, and I thought that I myself would be changed so that I could endure the force by which GAS was speaking, because I knew that it was by the power of God."

I have to admit to being concerned that one prophet would so criticize a previous prophet, even in private conversation, as was the case here. I just never expected something like this to have happened. And I am also concerned to read the statement attributed to President GA Smith that "they [the brethren] no longer are able to receive direct revelation since the fullness of the gospel has been given away." If that's the case, then where does that leave all the statements made by GAs since then. It seems to me that if there has been no revelation in recent years, then we have to rely much more heavily on the scriptures, namely the BoM, D&C, PoGP, and the JST of the Bible.

[EmmaLee]

Do you have a link to this ^^ quote? Or did it come from a book? Thanks!

[brianj]

I'm not familiar with Fuller, and if these words of President Smith are true they are very disturbing. However, many of us asked for a witness that the three new members of the Quorum of the Twelve were Heavenly Father's choice for that calling and we received it. That was just one of many examples I could provide to support my belief that the church is still being led by direct revelation.

That being said, I believe that it is important to follow the leaders of the church even if they are fallible and imperfect humans who are only leading us to the best of their mortal abilities. The scriptures teach us that we are to honor and obey our parents and wives follow their husbands without any caveat that we only follow those people if they are sufficiently righteous. Heavenly Father can remove somebody from leadership in the church when He chooses to and we have a promise that a leader will be removed before leading the church astray. It is critically important for us to gain our own personal revelation, and the leaders of the church are a help in doing so as opposed to a hindrance.

[AI2.0]

This my first intrusion into this topic, well over a year after the last post. But a few days ago I read what I'll call the Fuller Report about President George Albert Smith's vision. And this part of Fuller's report troubles me enuf to resurrect this topic. For about 9 years now I have believed that President Heber J. Grant was a strong proponent of the US Constitution. His statements so indicating are included in Chris Bentley's A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND, and also in Newquist's PROPHETS, PRINCIPLES AND NATIONAL SURVIVAL. And also the reasons that he reportedly gave for calling J. Reuben Clark to the First Presidency. But then, Fuller states"

"One of the things G. A. Smith was particularly harsh about the day before he left was how Heber J. Grant seemed to worship the world, and all of the bankers, politicians, and anyone who was held in high regard in Babylon. Pres. Smith taught me about the conspiracy of the international bankers who were backing communism, socialism, and fascism, who he stated were angels of Satan. Yet Heber J. Grant repeatedly gushed praises in conference for them. President G. A. Smith here stated that there had been no other president of the church who has darkened the minds of the Saints so much as HJG did. He told me that when a man calling himself a prophet starts denigrating and setting at naught the revealed teachings of former prophets, that he declared himself an enemy of God, and the people should put that man out of his place, and make the Quorum of 12 do their job and put in a man under the inspiration of Heaven who will lead the people in the narrow paths of righteousness, not in the wide paths of Babylon. I asked him if he was not doing just what he was telling me was improper, and he told me that HJG could not fit that mold because he was just a placeholder who had set aside many revealed principles of the restored gospel. Even so, he counseled me to stay close to the gospel and the church and do the best I could until the setting in order occurs. He then explained to me that the gospel and the church are two different entities and that I would do well in my life to come to know and understand why they are separate. GAS was almost white while he was saying these things, and I thought that I myself would be changed so that I could endure the force by which GAS was speaking, because I knew that it was by the power of God."

I have to admit to being concerned that one prophet would so criticize a previous prophet, even in private conversation, as was the case here. I just never expected something like this to have happened. And I am also concerned to read the statement attributed to President GA Smith that "they [the brethren] no longer are able to receive direct revelation since the fullness of the gospel has been given away." If that's the case, then where does that leave all the statements made by GAs since then. It seems to me that if there has been no revelation in recent years, then we have to rely much more heavily on the scriptures, namely the BoM, D&C, PoGP, and the JST of the Bible.

What is the Fuller report and who is Fuller?

I would also point out that one person's opinion can be biased. I don't know who this Fuller person is so I'm skeptical. This person could be maligning both George Albert Smith AND Heber J. Grant unfairly with his unflattering heresay comments.

[lundbaek]

I got this from an attachment to an email from a friend. I am quite suspicious of some parts of the story, and am hoping others may already know to what extent this story is true. I noticed references to Kevin Fuller and his brother H.D. Fuller in some of the posts in this thread, and I'm hoping someone else will have insight into the validity of the story. Otherwise, I'll just drop it.

[lundbaek]

I got this from an attachment to an email from a friend. I am quite suspicious of some parts of the story, and am hoping others may already know to what extent this story is true. I noticed references to Kevin Fuller and his brother H.D. Fuller in some of the posts in this thread, and I'm hoping someone else will have insight into the validity of the story. Otherwise, I'll just drop it.

[AI2.0]

Is it HD Fuller's story? He and others in his family are discussed on this thread;

viewtopic.php?t=16106&start=360

In particular this post by Onsdag;

He started out by quoting a post made by a member on AVOW--his last name was Fuller:

" My father was one of the three men who started the church’s “Road Show” drama program in the early years of the 20th century. Through that exposure to church leadership, he formed many lasting relationships which lasted all of his life. He eventually graduated from college with a masters degree, which is now equivalent to roughly PhD, and was widely used in the church’s building program, designing and building the first few church canneries. After his first wife died from what is just a minor medical problem these days, he went south to become the superintendent over the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) program that was started during the depression to provide a jobs program for the destitute out of work men who comprised over one third of the workforce. His gang built the Zion’s Park tunnels, and the bridge over the Virgin River between Hurricane and LaVerkin, UT, and then he left to work building projects for the church again. The canneries in Hurricane, Kanab, St George, and several others I will decline to mention in the interest of brevity. During his CCC days he married my mother and they began their family. I only bring this history here to AVOW because it lays the foundation for what subsequently happened.

After WW2, George Albert Smith was a regular visitor to our home in LaVerkin. He always came with the church architects to have dad go over plans for this building or that one because dad was extremely good at looking at blueprints and envisioning spatially what was being built, thus being able to see right off hand what many architects could not, even with their education. He was able to see if the building could even be built as drawn, and if not, what changes were needed to make it buildable.

On one of these trips, President Smith drove down in the limited edition Lincoln Continental convertible Henry Ford had given to Heber J. Grant as president of the church. While he was there, dad and the architects were in heads over coattails discussing the plans of a proposed temple, and the discussion got so involved that George Albert was lost, and so he invited my oldest brother, who was then 11 going on 12 to go for a ride with him. During that ride, President Smith interviewed my brother and gave him quite a priesthood worthiness interview. He then got after him for being more interested in getting all of his friends in town to notice the fact that he was riding in a Lincoln Continental convertible with the top down, than he was in conversing with a living prophet of God.

At that point, President Smith quite abruptly stopped and turned in the seat so that he was facing my brother and related to him what sounds basically like the same vision that Brother David Horne related. Everything that my brother wrote down in his journal (which he didn’t have until he got home, and told mother what had happened, and she got him a journal and had him write down all that Pres. Smith had told him).

Every thing that he wrote down correlates except that there is no mention of a Greek anything in the version my brother recorded. After reading “Dreams and Visions” and reading that vision as related by Bro. Horne, I asked my brother specifically if Pres. Smith had said anything about a Greek president being the key event to watch for, and he tells me that nothing like that was mentioned. He just said that it would be a president of different extraction than the normal northern European ancestry that we had had up to that point.

However, Pres. Smith did tell him to look specifically for the day when the American Dollar was so worthless that no other country would allow payment in dollars, for that would signal the beginning of such a severe depression that only LDS people who had their food supplies and clothing supplies and whatever they needed for heat and to cook with would be able to survive. Then he stopped for a moment as though he was going inside himself, and then said that there would be other survivors, but they would only survive because they were the honest in heart whom the Lord would miraculously bring to the Saints to teach and nurture, and that their survival would be something truly spiritual to those of us who were prepared for the calamities that would befall the LDS people who were not prepared, and the unprepared LDS would be affected the worst and die the more agonizing deaths because they had been warned, and yet rejected those warnings.

1. Weapons would be taken from the populace (advised to have weapons and ammo stashed where it would be unobservable but which could be gotten to in a moments notice)

2. Russia would appear to fall from it’s mighty position, but that would only be a ruse, because they would continue to only grow stronger because they would not have to support all of the poor countries they had taken over.

3. The US would give up it’s strategic power base, and become the scourge of the world because of the abuse of power they would leverage against all other lesser countries, and the other world powers would force the US to take their bombs out of Europe. (Doesn’t remember anything being said about whether bombs were nuclear or not)

4. Missiles would be hidden in grain silos – didn’t way anything about them being the buried silos we all know.

5. Nations would move huge battle tanks around to where they needed them on trucks that are bigger than any you have ever seen up till now (1949)

6. Then a terrible war would break out that would pit the powerful nations of the world against the US, and that the US would find out what it was like to have war waged in their backyards, and America would find out that WW2 had merely been a training exercise.

7. The worst time in the depression would look like a picnic in comparison.

He then reiterated to him that he needed to put away guns and ammo where it could not be confiscated so that he could protect his family until he could get them to one of the refuge’s that the Lord would provide his worthy Saints. After he got to the refuges he would not need those weapons, but that perhaps his children and grandchildren would to go fight for the constitution. He then quit talking, and refused to give any further clarifications.

After recording what he could remember, my brother felt like he had left something important out, and was concerned, so since Pres. Smith was still in residence, my brother went back to him and had him read what he had written. President Smith told him that he had all that needed to be recorded, and that he now felt he had overstepped his bounds in telling my brother all that he had, and prayed that the Lord would forgive him, and that my brother should only record and tell his family the elements that needed to be kept sacred in his journal."



Onsdag wrote:

As with any statement not officially sanctioned by the Church, I think we should exercise prayer and caution when pondering this.



I agree with this statement. While I am personally inclined to believe the David Horne account is genuine, I do have some hesitations in accepting this account. I'm not saying that it's not genuine, just be careful...

This account was originally written and posted on LDSAVOW, by someone with the username "Copenhagen," but it was quickly removed by the author within days (possibly hours?) of being posted. There is a reason why it was removed. As far as I know the author has not published, or allowed this account to be published, elsewhere or since then.

I am personally acquainted with "Copenhagen" and have talked with this person privately about this account. I am uncertain as of yet as to whether it is a genuine account or not. I hesitate to say more as this may not be the best time or place. Just to reiterate - I am not saying this is or isn't genuine, but please be cautious.



This past week Henry Dee (H.D.) Fuller passed away. The above account, written by Ross Kevin Fuller (aka "Copenhagen" from AVOW) was about an alleged event that happened between his brother H.D. Fuller and George Albert Smith. I had intended to try and talking to H.D. personally about the account to try verifying it, but alas with his passing this will no longer be possible.

Some of the details from the above account are verifiable, such as their parents, Luther Carlos Fuller and Rosalba Gubler Fuller, did indeed live in LaVerkin and Luther did help start the program which eventually became the Church's "Road Show":

Drama took on new life in the 1930’s when Luther Fuller and his wife, Rosalba (Gubler) became residents. Luther was talented, strict, and kind. Under his direction, actors gave professional performances. He and Rosalba could build and paint any required backdrop. Productions were taken to neighboring towns of course.

http://www.laverkin.org/history/essay-w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ll/page-4/



However, from my research, including talking with and interviewing Kevin and other family members, other parts and details of the story seem of questionable authenticity. For example, I have learned from one familial source that though George Albert Smith did visit the area on occasion, in particular to dedicate the Bishop's Storehouse in Hurricane in the Spring of 1948 (about the time the above story would have allegedly taken place), he never was "a regular visitor to our home in LaVerkin." Note though that the linked news article does mention that the building of the Bishop's Storehouse was "supervised by Luther Fuller of LaVerkin," further validation of his architectural skills and possible validation that he may have frequently visited with Church authorities as described in the story. Still, the fact that one of the family members has indicated that G.A.S. had never been a visitor to their home as the story claims is problematic. Furthermore, several family members had never heard of this story before when questioned about it. They had never heard either H.D. or Kevin talk of it, which begs the question - if it did happen, and was of such great import, then why had it never been shared before? Perhaps it was sacred and personal, and meant only for H.D.? Yet David Horne shared his account freely and openly to all of his family and anyone and everyone else.

There are other concerns, but until I can do further research to either validate or disprove them then I will not publish them. Right now I'm still on the fence about this one. Some things seem true and are verifiable, but yet some things seem questionable and unverifiable. It's just too bad that H.D. passed away before I could ever talk to him about this account, as it was HIS story and therefore would have been a first hand account. Now there are only second hand accounts from other family members... If only I could get my hands on that journal (highly unlikely)

Onsdag was iffy about this account and I think he had good reasons to be.

[lundbaek]

This story is my original source, although I got it from an attachment to an email from a friend. I understand the source to be one Kevin Fuller, although I believe the story originated with his older brother H.D. Fuller. Apparently, their father was friendly with President George Albert Smith. I recognize some parts of the story from a lesson in the President George Albert Smith priesthood/relief society lesson book, especially that part about the Lincoln convertable car and the ride with President Smith and the scolding by President Smith, and also the bits about their father designing certain Church buildings.

[AI2.0]

quote="lundbaek"]This story is my original source, although I got it from an attachment to an email from a friend. I understand the source to be one Kevin Fuller, although I believe the story originated with his older brother H.D. Fuller. Apparently, their father was friendly with President George Albert Smith. I recognize some parts of the story from a lesson in the President George Albert Smith priesthood/relief society lesson book, especially that part about the Lincoln convertable car and the ride with President Smith and the scolding by President Smith, and also the bits about their father designing certain Church buildings.[/quote]


Yes, Onsdag said it was posted on AVOW by a man named Ross Kevin Fuller (he posted as Copenhagen at AVOW) and he claimed it was his brother, HD Fuller who gave the account. That makes it second hand too, so that's a point against it. Onsdag said this;

This account was originally written and posted on LDSAVOW, by someone with the username "Copenhagen," but it was quickly removed by the author within days (possibly hours?) of being posted. There is a reason why it was removed. As far as I know the author has not published, or allowed this account to be published, elsewhere or since then.

I am personally acquainted with "Copenhagen" and have talked with this person privately about this account. I am uncertain as of yet as to whether it is a genuine account or not. I hesitate to say more as this may not be the best time or place. Just to reiterate - I am not saying this is or isn't genuine, but please be cautious.

He also said HD Fuller had died so he can't corroborate the story.

I think Onsdag's concerns with this account ought to be considered--he wrote this last year when it was discussed;

However, from my research, including talking with and interviewing Kevin and other family members, other parts and details of the story seem of questionable authenticity. For example, I have learned from one familial source that though George Albert Smith did visit the area on occasion, in particular to dedicate the Bishop's Storehouse in Hurricane in the Spring of 1948 (about the time the above story would have allegedly taken place), he never was "a regular visitor to our home in LaVerkin." Note though that the linked news article does mention that the building of the Bishop's Storehouse was "supervised by Luther Fuller of LaVerkin," further validation of his architectural skills and possible validation that he may have frequently visited with Church authorities as described in the story. Still, the fact that one of the family members has indicated that G.A.S. had never been a visitor to their home as the story claims is problematic. Furthermore, several family members had never heard of this story before when questioned about it. They had never heard either H.D. or Kevin talk of it, which begs the question - if it did happen, and was of such great import, then why had it never been shared before? Perhaps it was sacred and personal, and meant only for H.D.? Yet David Horne shared his account freely and openly to all of his family and anyone and everyone else.

[Onsdag]

This my first intrusion into this topic, well over a year after the last post. But a few days ago I read what I'll call the Fuller Report about President George Albert Smith's vision. And this part of Fuller's report troubles me enuf to resurrect this topic. For about 9 years now I have believed that President Heber J. Grant was a strong proponent of the US Constitution. His statements so indicating are included in Chris Bentley's A GLORIOUS STANDARD FOR ALL MANKIND, and also in Newquist's PROPHETS, PRINCIPLES AND NATIONAL SURVIVAL. And also the reasons that he reportedly gave for calling J. Reuben Clark to the First Presidency. But then, Fuller states"

"One of the things G. A. Smith was particularly harsh about the day before he left was how Heber J. Grant seemed to worship the world, and all of the bankers, politicians, and anyone who was held in high regard in Babylon. Pres. Smith taught me about the conspiracy of the international bankers who were backing communism, socialism, and fascism, who he stated were angels of Satan. Yet Heber J. Grant repeatedly gushed praises in conference for them. President G. A. Smith here stated that there had been no other president of the church who has darkened the minds of the Saints so much as HJG did. He told me that when a man calling himself a prophet starts denigrating and setting at naught the revealed teachings of former prophets, that he declared himself an enemy of God, and the people should put that man out of his place, and make the Quorum of 12 do their job and put in a man under the inspiration of Heaven who will lead the people in the narrow paths of righteousness, not in the wide paths of Babylon. I asked him if he was not doing just what he was telling me was improper, and he told me that HJG could not fit that mold because he was just a placeholder who had set aside many revealed principles of the restored gospel. Even so, he counseled me to stay close to the gospel and the church and do the best I could until the setting in order occurs. He then explained to me that the gospel and the church are two different entities and that I would do well in my life to come to know and understand why they are separate. GAS was almost white while he was saying these things, and I thought that I myself would be changed so that I could endure the force by which GAS was speaking, because I knew that it was by the power of God."

I have to admit to being concerned that one prophet would so criticize a previous prophet, even in private conversation, as was the case here. I just never expected something like this to have happened. And I am also concerned to read the statement attributed to President GA Smith that "they [the brethren] no longer are able to receive direct revelation since the fullness of the gospel has been given away." If that's the case, then where does that leave all the statements made by GAs since then. It seems to me that if there has been no revelation in recent years, then we have to rely much more heavily on the scriptures, namely the BoM, D&C, PoGP, and the JST of the Bible.

What is your source for the "Fuller Report," and in particular the selection you quoted? The portion I highlighted in red is not found in the version that BroJones posted earlier in this thread. Is there another version floating around somewhere?

To answer my own question, I did a quick search on google and it seems this may be the source of your version:

http://searchingfortherealtruth.blogspo ... lural.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm re-posting the full text here for the sake of everyone:

George Albert Smith, Celestial Plural Marriage and the Law of Consecration

Posting this for future reference, not my own but found it through research!


At HD’s request I here add President George Albert Smith’s teachings and vision:

He told me that the first real key was that we would have a president of different extraction than the normal northern European ancestry that we had had up to that point. However, Pres. Smith did counsel me to look specifically for the day when the American dollar was so worthless that no other country would allow payment in dollars, for that would signal the beginning of such a severe depression that only LDS people who had their food supplies and clothing supplies and whatever they needed for heat and to cook with would be able to survive. Then he stopped for a moment as though he was going inside himself, and then said that there would be other survivors, but they would only survive because they were the honest in heart whom the Lord would miraculously bring to the Saints to teach and nurture, and that their survival would be something truly spiritual to those of us who were prepared for the calamities that would befall the LDS people who were not prepared, and the unprepared LDS would be affected the worst and die the more agonizing deaths because they had been warned, and yet rejected those warnings to prepare every needful thing.

1. Weapons would be taken from the populace (I was advised to have weapons and ammo stashed where it would be unobservable but which could be gotten to in a moments notice)

2. Russia would appear to fall from it’s mighty position, but that would only be a ruse, because they would continue to only grow stronger because they would not then have to support all of the poor countries they had taken over.

3. The US would give up it’s strategic power base, and become the scourge of the world because of the abuse of power they would leverage against all other lesser countries, and the other world powers would force the US to take their bombs out of Europe. (Doesn’t remember anything being said about whether bombs were nuclear or not)

4. Missiles would be hidden in grain silos – didn’t say anything about them being the buried silos we all know.

5. Nations would move huge battle tanks around to where they needed them on trucks that are bigger than any you have ever seen up till now (194

6. Then a terrible war would break out that would pit the powerful nations of the world against the US, and that the US would find out what it was like to have war waged in their backyards, and America would find out that WW2 had merely been a training exercise.

7. The worst time in the depression would look like a picnic in comparison.

He then reiterated to me that I needed to put away guns and ammo where it could not be confiscated so that I could protect my family until I could get them to one of the refuge’s that the Lord would provide his worthy Saints. After I got to the refuges I would not need those weapons, but that perhaps my children and grandchildren would, to go fight for the constitution. GAS then quit talking, and refused to give any further clarifications.

After recording what I could remember, I felt like I had left something important out, and was concerned, so since Pres. Smith was still in residence, I went back to him and had him read what I had written. President Smith told me that I had all that needed to be recorded, and that he now felt he had overstepped his bounds in telling me all that he had, and prayed that the Lord would forgive him, and that I should only record and tell his family the elements that needed to be kept sacred in his journal until I was inspired to share it only with selected people.

I think that it is the last two items that Pres. Smith was worried about “letting the cat out of the bag” so to speak, and why he was worried that perhaps the Lord would be angry with him. What I wrote down was that the Saints who would go to the refuges would be tried to such an extent that there would be a great apostasy because the Lord would require all who were there to live the full Celestial Priesthood Law which includes 1) the Law of Consecration, and 2) the law of Celestial Plural Marriage.

He stated that Father governs his people by the law of common consent while in mortal probation so that they may have their agency, and when plural marriage was given away it was not by any revelation, but was by the machinations of such men high within the church who thought to play the devils game with him to gain a little season before it would be re-instituted after becoming a State, but in the meantime, the people grabbed hold of the press release that is now called Official Declaration 1 so hard that it was quite impossible to go back to the way that things had been because of the 'common consent' of the church membership.

He also stated that when people shall come to where the light of the Lord is, it will mostly be women, and that the law of Celestial Plural Marriage will have to be lived, since it would be improper to put a women and possibly the children with her under the charge of a priesthood holder without making that woman one of his wives. He then quoted the scripture from 2 Nephi 14:1 “And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach.”

He then counseled me to always judge the prophets and always and make it a matter of prayer if the counsel of the prophet is of God since the current membership would cry foul if a prophet were to get up and say “Thus sayeth the Lord” since the brethren have left that behind since they no longer are able to receive direct revelation since the fullness of the gospel has been given away. I then asked him why, if that were so, had he received a vision of the last days that he was telling me about? He said that in that particular case he had received nothing more than what any member of the church could receive for themselves if they draw close to the Lord through the spirit, and quoted me the prophecy in Joel about everyone having dreams and visions in the last days.

Summary of my side conversation Q&A later in the day after I had written the vision...

Question by me: From what you have told me, what is the fullness? A long discourse developed which I will summarize to the best of my understanding here.
GAS defined United Order and Celestial Plural Marriage as the main principles given away which diluted the fullness of the Gospel to something less than what Father desired, that we properly had when the gospel was restored. He also stated that there were also other principles such as re-baptism unto repentance for those repenting of their sins. He then quoted the scripture from Isaiah where it says that when the ordinances are changed the Priesthood is changed. You can look that up since I am not writing a scholarly treatise here such that I need to include the exact scripture... I am not going to get into all of the re-baptism and other smaller changes here because it is all well defined in the BOM, but is nonetheless part of the fullness.

Me: Why are those principles considered the fullness?
GAS: Because CPM is designed to test the women and humble them sufficiently to be able to live and love sufficiently for inclusion in the Celestial Kingdom, and the United Order is the principle necessary to similarly humble men under the eternal Law of the Priesthood.

Me: So why don’t you restore the fullness?
GAS: Because the people would never understand and grasp the fullness at this time. They are only conditioned to receive the milk of the Gospel right now. Father will reveal the time when that setting in order is to occur so that it will strengthen and purify those who will accept, because the revelation reinstating the meat of the Gospel, which are those principles, will cause the great apostasy prior to the second coming prophesied in the scriptures.

Now our father grew up in a polygamous household, but his mother hated the principle of CPM so badly that she preached incessantly against it. From everything recorded in any of the journals we have, grandma was a very selfish and haughty woman. Thus dad had that same spirit in rejecting divine revelation, and thus when he heard President Smith reviewing my journal out loud, he became extremely riled and told Pres. Smith he had no business teaching his (dad's) young son who doesn't even have the priesthood yet such doctrine. President Smith lowered both barrels and came down on dad so hard that it almost ruined their friendship. In essence what was said was recorded as best as I could remember it after they had finished, and I recorded it as GAS saying that he was proud that I desired to know the truth, and then said something along the lines of “Luther, it is never improper to teach the truth's of Gods Priesthood Law, regardless of age, regardless of whether we now practice it or not, for in order for a man to be exalted, he must live the same laws that are lived in the Kingdom he aspires to, and Celestial Plural Marriage is the only marriage system that is recognized where God lives. Men may think they are attaining to the New and Everlasting covenant by marrying one woman in the temple and living in monogamy, but that is only the initial step; just as you are anointed “to become” in your initiatory anointings, marriage to one woman is just the initial step. So dad shut up, but he was steaming, and they did not get much accomplished the rest of that day, and President Smith had to leave to go to a California appointment the next day.

One of the things G. A. Smith was particularly harsh about the day before he left was how Heber J. Grant seemed to worship the world, and all of the bankers, politicians, and anyone who was held in high regard in Babylon. Pres. Smith taught me about the conspiracy of the international bankers who were backing communism, socialism, and fascism, who he stated were angels of Satan. Yet Heber J. Grant repeatedly gushed praises in conference for them. President G. A. Smith here stated that there had been no other president of the church who has darkened the minds of the Saints so much as HJG did. He told me that when a man calling himself a prophet starts denigrating and setting at naught the revealed teachings of former prophets that he declared himself an enemy of God, and the people should put that man out of his place, and make the Quorum of 12 do their job and put in a man under the inspiration of Heaven who will lead the people in the narrow paths of righteousness, not in the wide paths of Babylon. I asked him if he was not doing just what he was telling me was improper, and he told me that HJG could not fit that mold because he was just a placeholder who had set aside many revealed principles of the restored gospel. Even so, he counseled me to stay close to the gospel and the church and do the best I could until the setting in order occurs. He then explained to me that the gospel and the church are two different entities and that I would do well in my life to come to know and understand why they are separate. GAS was almost white while he was saying these things, and I thought that I myself would be changed so that I could endure the force by which GAS was speaking, because I knew that it was by the power of God.

GAS told me that if I ever expected to have the full blessing of the temple when I got my endowments I should never wear anything other than the revealed garment, which had sleeves down to the wrist, legs down to the ankle, three ties holding them shut which represent the 3 offices of the Holy Priesthood, and having the collar which represented the Mantle of Christ that we must put on if we are to be exalted. He said that he had seen in vision that all of these things would eventually be outlawed by subsequent prophets who didn’t understand what all of those things meant to the power and fullness of the priesthood because they would not be able to rise above the “milk” or darkness which had been allowed to infiltrate the church since the Law of the Priesthood and the Law of Consecration had been given away. He then quoted to me a scripture that says that when the ordinances are changed, priesthood is changed. I think that is the Isaiah scripture he referred to earlier, but GAS said it different than what is contained in Isaiah as I remember it.

I think that if dad had not interjected himself in the conversation that Pres. Smith would have gone far deeper into what he had been saying. But he clammed up, and my personal tutoring from a prophet of God was over forever more.

As he was leaving the next day I questioned him as to why he told me all of this, and Pres. Smith responded that I was of an age that I would likely live to see the events that had been described, and Pres. Smith wanted to have men who fully believed in the Law of the Priesthood and were already prepared to live it when required to do so, rather than there having to be a huge missionary effort just among those calling themselves Saints to get them to adopt the necessary Celestial Laws. He told me to always remember that God’s ways are not man’s ways, and that man’s ways are not God’s ways. Again when I asked him why he did not just restore all of this himself. he told me that he could not preach this across the pulpit because most of the Saints were milk babies. He told me that he had perceived that I was a straight thinker, even though I was young enough that I did not yet cherish the blessings that the words of a Prophet of God would bring into my life.

He was accurate on that count because I did not get my testimony of prophets until I was on my mission to the Hopi Indians.

Earlier in this thread I urged great caution to everyone in regards to the Fuller version. I did not share everything I knew about the situation at that time, partly because of some very sensitive issues and considerations, but also partly because I was not aware of this other version of the Fuller account and felt the one posted earlier in this thread didn't warrant me posting everything I knew. Having just now read this new version of the account I feel it may be necessary for a more 'fuller' explanation (pardon the pun).

Some background information first. Kevin Fuller's wife, Mary Catherine (Cathy) Fuller, is my first cousin. Her mother and my mother are sisters. Cathy's mother is the oldest child in a relatively large family and my mother is the youngest, but because of the age differences between the two then Cathy is actually about the same age as my mother. I bring all of this up because our two families are very close, and I view Cathy more as an aunt than a cousin. Furthermore, and beyond this, Cathy and Kevin have graciously have taken my mother and her family into their home in times of need. As you may very well guess this puts our families in a very unique and precarious situation, especially in regards to Kevin Fuller's story. This also means that I am uniquely qualified (in a very sobering way) to understand and speak on the situation and the sensitivity required in addressing it.

In short, the Fuller version (especially now having read this newest version) is absolute garbage and false.

I didn't want to bring this up before, but now having read this newer version, and seeing that it is freely and publicly available to read on the internet, then I feel I must bring it up so that people are aware of it. Let me be clear, Kevin Fuller has not been excommunicated from the Church, but he is currently (and has been for some years) under some form of discipline or probation. You should be aware of this because it helps bring some clarity when reading the account(s) he wrote concerning this supposed visit of President George Albert Smith to his brother H.D. You see, as far as I'm aware H.D. had been a faithful member of the Church all his life until the time of his passing last year and had even served a senior mission a few years ago. I have never personally met or talked with H.D., but I do know Kevin personally and have talked with him frequently, and I can tell you in all honesty that in reading this new version of the "Fuller account" that it sounds exactly like the things I know Kevin would say. He has tried talking with me several times about polygamy, how the Church is in apostasy, the leaders are fallen, and so forth, just as is done in this supposed account. This, to me, is very compelling evidence that Kevin did in fact make up this entire story for his own hidden agendas. This alone is enough to convince me that this account is fake. However, there are several other 'problems' I see with this version of the account. To name a few:

• Why would a Prophet of God rail upon a previous Prophet, as George Albert Smith supposedly does with Heber J. Grant in this account?
• George Albert Smith supposedly states that when "a prophet starts denigrating and setting at naught the revealed teachings of former prophets that he declared himself an enemy of God," something he is in very fact doing, if we are to believe this account. When questioned about the apparent hypocrisy of this statement some convoluted explanation is proffered. This does not at all sound like something I would expect from a Prophet of God.
• Many, if not all, of the things GAS supposedly teaches H.D. sound like they're actually coming from a disgruntled (former) member of the Church with an axe to grind, and not one if its faithful and devoted leaders.
• Does all of this really sound like something that would be coming from an 11 year old boy - the age H.D. was when all of this supposedly took place?
• Speaking of age, supposedly President Smith told H.D. "that [he] was of an age that [he] would likely live to see the events that had been described." Unfortunately for the credibility of this story H.D. passed away a year ago. Whoops.
• When asked why President Smith was teaching him all these the reply is given that he "wanted to have men who fully believed in the Law of the Priesthood and were already prepared to live it when required to do so, rather than there having to be a huge missionary effort just among those calling themselves Saints to get them to adopt the necessary Celestial Laws." Seems like a strange way to accomplish that goal by teaching these things to a young boy in a private setting, rather than through official and proper channels as the Lord had established, and then also telling said boy to keep these things private, within his own family, and "in his journal until I was inspired to share it only with selected people." This is especially strange when considering the fact that, according to close family members, he apparently never shared any of these things with any of his family (excepting Kevin) and they were surprised (and skeptical) to learn that this encounter ever supposedly took place. Now, assuming this mission was in fact given to H.D. by G.A.S., it is forever too late for him to accomplish it due to the simple fact that he died. Sure is a strange way for the Lord to accomplish his purposes through a Prophet of God and a small boy. Compare this with the account of the young boy Mormon being given a mission from the Lord through a Prophet of God and living to fulfill said mission.

No. I can tell you with great certainty that this Fuller account of a supposed meeting with George Albert Smith is utter rubbish and should not be given any further attention. It appears to have been completely fabricated by Kevin Fuller to further his own agendas.

[Silver]

Onsdag, you keep getting awesomer and awesomer.

[Onsdag]

You are too kind. I am merely doing my best to set the record straight and stand up for what I know to be true.

[AI2.0]

Onsdag: No. I can tell you with great certainty that this Fuller account of a supposed meeting with George Albert Smith is utter rubbish and should not be given any further attention. It appears to have been completely fabricated by Kevin Fuller to further his own agendas.

I agree 100%. This is garbage and this portion proves it:

Question by me: From what you have told me, what is the fullness? A long discourse developed which I will summarize to the best of my understanding here.
GAS defined United Order and Celestial Plural Marriage as the main principles given away which diluted the fullness of the Gospel to something less than what Father desired, that we properly had when the gospel was restored. He also stated that there were also other principles such as re-baptism unto repentance for those repenting of their sins. He then quoted the scripture from Isaiah where it says that when the ordinances are changed the Priesthood is changed. You can look that up since I am not writing a scholarly treatise here such that I need to include the exact scripture... I am not going to get into all of the re-baptism and other smaller changes here because it is all well defined in the BOM, but is nonetheless part of the fullness.

This is all I needed to read to know this is absolutely fraudulent, all the references to Polygamy and mention of losing ordinances, rebaptism etc. it reeks of a fundamentalist disgruntled viewpoint, written by someone who comes from the school of Mark Hofmann, a man who attempted to put out a fraudulent story through his forgeries and succeeded for a while before he was exposed for his lies. Mark Hofmann said that the reason he wrote many of his forgeries was to 'retell' church history in the way HE believed it had happened. But, Mark Hofmann did not believe in the church, he had decided in his teens that it was lies and so he decided to use his forging skills to try to sway others to his beliefs. This posting which you've shared was made by someone who has that in common with Mark Hofmann. Kevin Fuller is willing to lie in order to try to sway people to his apostate views of the church. Very disturbing. Disgusting. I sure hope others won't promote this hoax because they think it helps corroborate the Horne account.

[AI2.0]

Here's another obvious flaw in this;

GAS told me that if I ever expected to have the full blessing of the temple when I got my endowments I should never wear anything other than the revealed garment, which had sleeves down to the wrist, legs down to the ankle, three ties holding them shut which represent the 3 offices of the Holy Priesthood, and having the collar which represented the Mantle of Christ that we must put on if we are to be exalted. He said that he had seen in vision that all of these things would eventually be outlawed by subsequent prophets who didn’t understand what all of those things meant to the power and fullness of the priesthood because they would not be able to rise above the “milk” or darkness which had been allowed to infiltrate the church since the Law of the Priesthood and the Law of Consecration had been given away. He then quoted to me a scripture that says that when the ordinances are changed, priesthood is changed. I think that is the Isaiah scripture he referred to earlier, but GAS said it different than what is contained in Isaiah as I remember it.

Although there is so much which is false and offensive in this, I highlighted part of this in red, because it's obvious this person has no idea what he's talking about--he's simply a fundamentalist who has no knowledge. The irony of this is rich. He clearly is unaware that the garment was designed by the early church sisters (this would really upset him if he knew since he obviously has such a low opinion of women)--they put the collar on the garments because they didn't like the rough edge. It has nothing to do with 'christs mantle'. And ties were better than buttons for cost and comfort. The garment design was NOT 'god breathed', which is why Prophets have modified them from time to time. It's also absolutely ridiculous to even think that the prophet would be discussing the falling away of other prophets and ignoring the fact that he could fix it!! What a joke, except it's not funny if uninformed members take this for truth.

[francisco.colaco]

The Copenhagen version is as true as a three Euro bill. What about the Horne's version?

Horne still stands by it. He said he called his brother --- this is of the upmost importance --- who, as I recall, confirmed he remembered *all details* with the exception of the Greek extraction. Horne's brother, who is several years older, would have remembered more. We are also assuming no previous written records. Brother Horne has never, as far as I know, stated or denied written records. We simply do not know werther those recorde existed, by whom were they written, if so, nor the extension thereof. We do know someone has confirmed the written details in the Horne account, in Horne's word to onde of the LDS FF members.

Brother Horne is either a vicious liar or our best friend. With the support of his brother, there is no great room for delusion nor confusion. Not much room for grey areas.

[Onsdag]

Bumping this to the top for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the 'Fuller' version.

TL:DR - it's garbage.

[AI2.0]

This is very interesting. You all did not mention a few things that I will now take the liberty to mention. I had read this in a book titled "The Dispensation of the Fullness of Times" by Craig R. Dunn who refencedit from David H. Hornes account. He also referenced another book called "America's Coming Crisis" by David M. Balmforth. In the appendix of the 1st book I mentioned are two other visions that coincide with the account of President G.A. Smith. One is a vision of Gen. George Washington of this same war and another from the vision of John Taylor. In W. Cleon Skousen's recently released book, "The Cleansing of America" is yet another vision of these times from Patriarch Charles D. Evans. So to refute all of these whitnesses would be a mistake in my opinion. On the subject of Greek ancestry, never did the prophesy say ancestry, but an extraction, which leads me to believe the President would be of a mixed blood and not pure greek. We won't know for sure what Obama is because none of it has been released. What was said, according to David Hornes, was this President would be THE FIRST president who did not directly descend from the British or N. European Ancestry. That he would sign missile treaties with the Russians, try to take away Americans firearms and start WWIII. Let me go back then to the S.T.A.R.T. treaty that was signed about two years ago and missiles being withdrawn from Poland at the protest of the Polish Gov. that government all died in a plane crash and since has been replaced by a pro-withdrawl government now ruling Poland. The Russians coincidentally enough offered the Poles assistance in the investigation of that crash, which by the way happened during the anniversary of Russian atrocities against the Poles during WWII. Obama afterward gave to the Russians all the codes to the Nuclear warheads possesed by England. Then you had the microphone incident where he promised the Former Russian Pres. more leaway or "flexability" would come after the elections, when he, Obama, would be RE-ELECTED. Now you have Russian Spaz Naz troops training on our soil?!? China by the way doesn't need to be in Mexico. They already have been given the means to be here a long time ago when Clinton didn't re-new the lease for the Panama Canal Zone. China got that one on a silver platter. Back to the present.... Syria, Libya, Turkey.... the Arab Spring all through the middle east! Anybody read Ezekiel 38 lately? Gog (the Leader of Russia) Magog (the Armies of Russia) along with Gomer (Turkey) Libya, Ethiopia, Persia (Iran), Egypt ect. ect. ect. WWIII has already begun. The big push is going to happen very soon towards a nuclear holocaust in which, to quote G.A. Smith, "Many will die like flies." And Israel will be in the middle of it all. But hey, what do I know. I didn't even mention the proposed UN weapons treaties or the NDAA Act, all perpetrated by this the first president not from the Northern European or British Ancestry. Coinsidences? I don't believe in coinsidences.

In reference to the bolded part of this post from 2012, I have to point out that these three visions are actually not credible corroboration. The George Washington 'vision' is a literary essay, it's not a real vision. The vision of John Taylor is not by him, but actually anonymous and was denounced by Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith on several occasions, so we have little to go on as to where it came from. And last, the Charles D. Evans 'dream' is also a literary essay which he explained to have written to raise young people's thoughts from 'silly novels' to the more weightier matters.

[AI2.0]

Here is another post, I believe it's on page four of this thread that is important enough to repost.

by Bgood » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:41 am

Bgood wrote:

DrJones wrote:
The email I referred to was from Dan Lambson in our ward, and cites a source at the AVOW forum (which is a membership-only forum).

I could not find the statement yet at the AVOW forum and tire of searching... there is a lot written on this prophecy. This was interesting from Jake in Clinton, Utah (last name not given):

Ok so I just talked with my dad, and today he made a personal phone call to David Horne, the author of the statement that claims that the Nuclear War would start during the administration of a "Greek" president. What Brother Horne said was shocking: the Greek president part of the transcript was false. He said that was what he remembered, but when he ran it by his older brother, who was also present during the prophecy, he said that was not correct. He then went on do say that the word that Pres. Smith used to describe this president was different, that both him and his brother remembered it, and that he would not release it.



Still second or third hand -- perhaps someone will give a phone call to David Horne??




David Hughes Horne, P.E. at Laird Way Salt Lake City...............Phone # 801 583-1776




Last year I visited the church historina's library to read Pres. Smith's journal to see what he had written about it but the staff knew nothing about it. I then discussed it with Leonard , former Chruch Historian, who said, "I have never heard of it." Problem with this vision is the Church does't appear to have any document that Pres. Smith left..........

One has to question why George Albert Smith would not have shared this prophecy with the 12 and would not have written it in his journal. That fact really hurts Horne's story, IMO.

[lundbaek]

It is conceivable to me that President Smith might well have told of his vision to the apostles and a decision was made to not discuss it with the general membership, which makes good sense to me. It has in recent years become increasingly apparent that there are some things that the Lord wants not discussed in church meetings, and I think this vision is one of them.